We Are Not A Great Team

meangreenbob · December 9, 2010

Even if I agree with you (and I kinda do), that was not the reason we lost tonight. Not by any stretch.

No, Knox didn't cost us the game last night. But if we study the situation a little bit from a logical perpspective we might understand what is happening to the performance of the team.

I saw Knox play against Emerson? in the Old Mens Gym his freshman year before he was reshirted. And honestly, I just don't see any difference in his play from then to today. What's up with that?

Yes, he came from a small 3A program where he surely was always one of the tallest kids on the court and the speed of the game at that level was no where near the speed of even the lowly rated Sun Belt Conference today.

Knox was signed to a schlarship for the very situation we find ourselves in today. He not only should have been ready to fill in for the graduation of Tremiel by now but really should be out performing the success of Tremiel. Think of that team for a second. Knox has the ability needed to play this game and be highly successful.

What's the problem? Fear? It is a fast paced physical game. It's not unusual to see players take an elbow to the head or take a six foot upsidedown fall to the floor. Wear a nose guard? Mouth piece? Who cares what the fans think at home or away. It is a very physical game and I admire all those who play the game and entertain us.

Desire. Desire to do whatever it takes to help the team succeed? If that means working out extra in the weight room in order to put on 15/20 lbs, or staying late after practice with someone so you can work on a hook shot both off the glass or straight into the hoop, well?

Knox has the ablility. He can become one of the nations premier Centers in all of college basketball.

So whats up with that?

Edited December 9, 2010 by meangreenbob

CMJ · December 9, 2010

No disrespect to Knox, but I don't think he has anywhere near that potential. If I did, I'd probably be a lot more critical.

GrandGreen · December 9, 2010

No, Knox didn't cost us the game last night. But if we study the situation a little bit from a logical perpspective we might understand what is happening to the performance of the team.

I saw Knox play against Emerson? in the Old Mens Gym his freshman year before he was reshirted. And honestly, I just don't see any difference in his play from then to today. What's up with that?

Yes, he came from a small 3A program where he surely was always one of the tallest kids on the court and the speed of the game at that level was no where near the speed of even the lowly rated Sun Belt Conference today.

Knox was signed to a schlarship for the very situation we find ourselves in today. He not only should have been ready to fill in for the graduation of Tremiel by now but really should be out performing the success of Tremiel. Think of that team for a second. Knox has the ability needed to play this game and be highly successful.

What's the problem? Fear? It is a fast paced physical game. It's not unusual to see players take an elbow to the head or take a six foot upsidedown fall to the floor. Wear a nose guard? Mouth piece? Who cares what the fans think at home or away. It is a very physical game and I admire all those who play the game and entertain us.

Desire. Desire to do whatever it takes to help the team succeed? If that means working out extra in the weight room in order to put on 15/20 lbs, or staying late after practice with someone so you can work on a hook shot both off the glass or straight into the hoop, well?

Knox has the ablility. He can become one of the nations premier Centers in all of college basketball.

So whats up with that?

Knox played for Arlington Grace Prep, a local basketball factory. He joined a long line of project posts NT has signed over the years: Barnett, Howerton, Masters. Done of these yet has become substantial factors although they have contributed. Sean Riley is the last big man and was he big, that really helped NT.

Knox continues to be build up as a potential star mostly by the NT's PR staff, but this is his third year and he has not shown much progress. They said he is bigger and stronger but I don't see it. Not that I have seen them practice but I expect he shows more there than he has in the games that count. He seems more timid this year and that might because he is really getting a lot of fouls called on him. I have always thought he had a good shot but he has been off all year. I still have hope but it is waning, he seems to lack confidence more than anything. His biggest positive so far is that he doesn't throw up threes.

.

Edited December 9, 2010 by GrandGreen

foutsrouts · December 9, 2010

Don't get why Knox is really even in the conversation, much less always being made the scapegoat by some for our bad games. He only played 7 minutes, and I really don't see how his 1 point, 1 rebound, and 2 fouls cost us the game. There is plenty of blame to go around, but In 22 minutes Holmen and Edwards got a grand total of 3 rebounds, and 2 of those 3 boards were offensive putbacks by Edwards on one possession when he scored his only bucket. That definitely needs to change. Anyone know if Edwards' knees are chronic, or if there is some hope that he can get healthy before too long? We could definitely use Spencer down low, but I have to wonder what kind of game shape he would be in even if he was available this weekend. We sure seem to be awfully secretive with the injury updates this year.

Harry · December 9, 2010

Holman strikes me as a guy that prefers being on the perimeter. I agree with an earlier post, Tramiel is sorely missed.

MeanGreenATO · December 10, 2010

I think it's nuts to overreact to one game in any sport, especially in basketball. It's still early in the season, and if UNT can't get its defense together by the conference schedule, then you can run around and panic. Go ahead and light your hair on fire if you want.

UNT90 · December 10, 2010

Knox has the ablility. He can become one of the nations premier Centers in all of college basketball.

So whats up with that?

No, he doesn't. No, he can't.

Watch Knox's feet next time he is on the court. Both on offense and defense. Terrible, terrible footwork for a big man (which is HUGE for the position), which is why he collects so many fouls so quickly on defense and why he has 0 offensive game and gets pushed out of position on the offensive glass by smaller players.

Knox was not a 3A player, he was a private school player that was a HUGE project when he was signed. This staff does not have any success stories in taking big men high school projects and developing them into productive, Sun Belt caliber big men. This is why I am not that disappointed in him because I never thought he would be anything but an end of the bench player (See: Howerton). The fact that they are trying to make him anything more says a lot about the huge lack of depth on this team.

The much bigger disappointment so far is Jacob Holmen, who seems to want to get the ball out of his hands as quickly as possible every time he gets the ball. I was really hoping that he would have adjusted to the speed and size of the college game by now, but he still seems intimidated in game situations. But, there is still hope.

Last night's game? One loss, it happens, move on.

Edited December 10, 2010 by UNT90

NT80 · December 10, 2010

No, he doesn't. No, he can't.

Watch Knox's feet next time he is on the court. Both on offense and defense. Terrible, terrible footwork for a big man (which is HUGE for the position), which is why he collects so many fouls so quickly on defense and why he has 0 offensive game and gets pushed out of position on the offensive glass by smaller players.

Knox was not a 3A player, he was a private school player that was a HUGE project when he was signed. This staff does not have any success stories in taking big men high school projects and developing them into productive, Sun Belt caliber big men. This is why I am not that disappointed in him because I never thought he would be anything but an end of the bench player (See: Howerton). The fact that they are trying to make him anything more says a lot about the huge lack of depth on this team.

The much bigger disappointment so far is Jacob Holmen, who seems to want to get the ball out of his hands as quickly as possible every time he gets the ball. I was really hoping that he would have adjusted to the speed and size of the college game by now, but he still seems intimidated in game situations. But, there is still hope.

Last night's game? One loss, it happens, move on.

I agree with your comments. The team right now is only 6 players deep. Others are trying but it's not happening. Cam Spencer is greatly needed and losing Alzee will probably cost us 3-4 wins. This is a slow starting team, usually playing even or catchup. I think we still get rattled on the road. JJ can win 20 games but many will be scary and will overwork the starters.

Edited December 10, 2010 by NT80

TheTastyGreek · December 10, 2010

How would we classify Quincy Williams?

He was a high school post, and I don't recall him coming in with even the same level of hype that accompanied Holmen. Kedrick Hogans was an undersized project when he came on board, and he's practically replaced all of Tramiel's production from last season (last I saw, within a point and a board of what Eric averaged last year).

Considering how many of our recent posts come from JUCOs and transfers, and how rarely we've missed there (Tramiel, Wooden, Odufuwa), I'd say we aren't doing too terribly. Especially considering where we've been in the pecking order for game-ready recruits of size.

We aren't batting 1.000 or anything... But to say we have no record of developing high school bigs seems inaccurate to me. Even Harold Stewart grew into a solid, reliable role player and quality defender.

Edited December 10, 2010 by TheTastyGreek

UNT90 · December 10, 2010

How would we classify Quincy Williams?

He was a high school post, and I don't recall him coming in with even the same level of hype that accompanied Holmen. Kedrick Hogans was an undersized project when he came on board, and he's practically replaced all of Tramiel's production from last season (last I saw, within a point and a board of what Eric averaged last year).

Considering how many of our recent posts come from JUCOs and transfers, and how rarely we've missed there (Tramiel, Wooden, Odufuwa), I'd say we aren't doing too terribly. Especially considering where we've been in the pecking order for game-ready recruits of size.

We aren't batting 1.000 or anything... But to say we have no record of developing high school bigs seems inaccurate to me. Even Harold Stewart grew into a solid, reliable role player and quality defender.

By bigs, I mean true post type players, not the 6'5" to 6'7" players like Hogans and Stewart who play the 4. They are 4 size for the sun belt, but not for a big six conference 4. Easy on the Hogans/Trammy comparisions. While Hogans has really picked up the slack, he still does not have the post game of a Trammeil, who was a first option post player who often drew double teams down low. Sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story.

I wasn't taking a shot at the coaching staff. I know that any 6'9" to 7'0" guy we get is going to be a huge project, otherwise they would be on the roster of a Big 6 conference. But, it would be nice to have one, just one, of these guys develop and give us something that we really have not seen here before. By far the bigger concern is Holman, who came her as a top 50 in the state recruit and has really shown nothing so far. Hopefully that changes, and soon.

As for Stewart, his field goal precentage decreased every year, going from .516 in his freshman year to .370 his senior year. PPG went from 4.6 to 2.7. Minutes PG went from 17.5 to 13.6. Not really the best case for developing a player. Quincey Williams is a better example. From freshman to senior year, he doubled his point production (4.4 to 9.7), and rebounds (3.6 to 7.6).

I know there are a whole host of factors that go into the numbers and that stats sometimes don't tell the whole story, but I would sure like to see a big man go from scoring 5 PPG his freshman year to averaging in the high teens or low 20s in his senior season, especially since we run a post up offense.

Can't gripe a whole lot after four 20 win seasons, but this is one I have in a perfect world scenerio.

Oh ya, and point guard.

izembower · December 12, 2010

SHSU is not 20 points better than us. sparkmank and i drove down there, and it was a great game. they raised their southland champions banner! that means they took great stock in this game against us. not to mention at the end of the game, a section of students chanted "over rated". that says alot about our team. you can't do much when a team hits a hot streak and seems to make everything they throw up. no defense can defend against luck, and that's exactly what SHSU had that night. and a lot of it. we played catch up the whole game, and that really affected our gameplan. one thing that we seem to do EVERY GAME is get the other team in foul trouble. with about 12 minutes left in the first half, we were already in our bonus. we missed too many free throws tonight and that affected us. we only shot about seven 3's and made 2. EVERYONE knows that isn't the usual for us. i'm not ready to put on the pampers yet and pee myself. let's see what UNT has the rest of NC, and then i'll tell you whether to invest in some depends or not.