Hated Rivals

NT80 · December 7, 2010

1. where did I say UNT had no commitment to athletics?

2. the things you listed while nice.....are singular pieces....sure there was a "plan" for the denia area......but it was clearly not well defined and not long term when first implemented because if it had been there would have been a firm plan for the stadium portion of that area before the AC was built.....not after it was built and then scrapping that stadium plan and going with another.....if there had been a plan there would have been a firm date in place to start stadium construction when the AC was being built......not several years of next to no real news about the stadium, what it would cost, how it would be paid for, what it would hold, and when it would start being built.......you do remember those years of discussion on this forum don't you.......when long term highly vocal UNT athletics supporters were growing extremely restless because they say nothing being done on any of that.....there was a website with a couple of small conception drawings and that was not even how the stadium ended up being......they built the AC before they even knew if they were going to get student approval on the athletics fee.......you do remember the single largest athletics donor for UNT publicly stating he had tossed in the towel because of lack of progress and because of lack of communication about what the plans and progress were......this was a very wealthy (though unfortunately probably declining in wealth) NON-UNT AFFILIATED donor that had written checks for over a million in the past.....he was the one that got the ball rolling on the stadium design......you do remember him walking away from that don't you.......many would blame that on RV.....I can see why....I personally blame it on the fact that RV repeatedly became tired of making a statement with the full support of the UNT administration......and then after publicly hanging it all out there.....he had the rug pulled from under him with a change in direction......so RV finally just stopped making those statements until something was finally agreed upon

3. the Business building, Bio building, are nothing more than a product of student growth and state formula funding....it was not because of any long term plan or alumni support or anything else....it was just the bare min that all public schools get when their enrollment allows them an increase in formula funding for buildings and infrastructure.....how long was that business building in the plans for......how many incarnations did it go through before something was finally done

hell have posted a link in the past from a high level UNT meeting that UNT considered using the old Radisson Hotel for the college business....I believe it was from 2008 which was a couple of years after they had been talking about a new business building

'''http://www.unt.edu/president/features/Strategic Planning/Strategic Plan for UNT Facilities.doc'''''

(you will probably have to cut and paste into your browser and a .doc will open)

there is the link...it is a 5 year plan.....in this "plan" they talk about a new business building by 2008 for 50 million.....then further down they talk about possibly needing the Radisson to put the college of business in

Purchase Radisson Hotel and Conference Center
gggggg. Need: This property is needed if the College of Business is located at Eagle Point and the School of Hospitality and Merchandising moves to the Radisson building
hhhhhh. Cost: $7,000,000
iiiiii. Schedule: June 2005
jjjjjj. Status: Requires Board reapproval, TRB for College of Business and willing sellers

how many of the things on that list are done......how many were even started before they were suppose to be finished......hell they have wanted to tear down the college inn for 3 decades and I believe it still sits there rotting away.....if they aren't careful some asshat will get it labeled a historic landmark and it will stay forever and ever

again look at all those things and the dates and times and then look at what was actually done....not a lot of following the plan going on

4. the research park was over priced they should have been able to get TI to donate that property instead of paying more than anyone else public or private was willing to pay for it.....the faculty in the programs located at the research park hate being out there, it divides academic programs off the main campus which I am against because I believe a college experience is a collection of experiences not just a list of classes you take and when a program is off the main campus it takes away from that experience......which is why I and many will always frown on online degrees in all but a few subjects and for all but a few people (like those that need a piece of paper to move up in an existing job)......the research park is woefully underutilized and again there is no clear plan for it

5. the dorms are nice, but many of them have been built with private money and are privately managed and that has lead to some student dissatisfaction with those dorms and I believe UNT had to step in and take over the management of at least one if not two of them to help clear it up

in the last 10 years what I have seen UNT do is play a large game of catch up to get to the base level of universities that UNT considers themselves similar to.....while those universities also continued to move ahead

http://www.dentonrc.com/s/dws/img/drc/04-10/0402untstrategic.pdf

here.....another plan from April 2010 (although now we hear one of the main things that VLR will do is make a new plan and incorporate parts of a bunch of old plans into this new plan)......so at least UNT has a plan plan!.....now if only had confidence the new guy would stay around to actually implement the plan or that UNT would be able to land a real leader in the future when their job will be to implement someone elses plan.....or maybe they will make a new plan

lets investigate the plan above

basically it wants to realign a bunch arts and liberal arts type programs and take the savings from that to increase research.....when The State of Texas formula funding for faculty positions does not fund arts and liberal arts programs at near the level that it funds engineering, pharmacy, and STEM programs......which means UNT will see very little increase in state dollars to help them move faculty lines from arts and liberal arts over to STEM programs....which means you will be trying to hire STEM faculty with huge start up needs based on liberal arts and arts funding......which has very small start up needs

they have been talking to the ARL for 2 years about how to become a member....but they make no mention of where or how the money will be found to do that.....the goal is 2015

right on page 51 it clearly states that the THECB required goal of 400 million in endowment IS NOT FEASIBLE in the next 5 years......then from the time line laid out it does not seem feasible in 10 years from now....in fact barely half of the THECB requirement is feasible for UNT in the next 10 years......why is that......why can't UNT get their endowment TEN YEARS FROM NOW to the level UTD is at today......much less that Texas Tech has raised 600 million over the last 7 years and plans to raise 400 million over the next 3......while not all of that goes right to the endowment a great deal of it will.....and the Tech and UH endowments are currently twice the amount that UNT has plans for theirs to be IN ANOTHER 10 YEARS

basically the goal for UNT from this "plan" is to go from the same endowment as TxState today (about 90 million) and over 10 years they will just barely double it to 215 million......which will still be 185 million short of the goals for the "tier 1" funding......true there are 6 criteria and only 4 of the 6 need to be met in addition to meeting the 45 million in research......but I find it impossible that UNT will make that initial and "must be met" 45 million in research when their plan is to shift liberal arts and arts faculty lines to STEM lines......and when their plan is to raise paltry amounts of external dollars to do so.....because Texas does not fund research faculty positions.....they don't fund half time faculty that can spend their other time on research.....and they don't fund start up cost for research faculty, and they don't fund graduate students all that well to actually do the heavy lifting

look at the first "plan" I posted......look at the time lines, the fact that so many were MISSED or have not even been started, look at the second plan I posted.....not even a year old......and being tossed out.....along with the leader that oversaw it.....look at the "goals" if you can even call most of them that.....look at the total lack of discussion about where and how the money will be made available and look at where UNT stands today compared to the other 6 emerging research universities and then look at where UNT expects to be in 10 years from now.....basically in 10 years from now UNT is still planning to be well behind UH, UTD, and Tech in any and all "tier 1" goals and metrics and basically UNT plans to be about where UH, Tech, and UTD are TODAY on many of those goals.....and that is 5 or ten years from now......and they "plan" on getting there with less external dollars than those universities are availing themselves of TODAY

forgive me if I am a bit underwhelmed and if I believe I have seen much of this before.....shifting plans, unmet deadlines, lack of acceptance that outside fund raising is critical for university advancement, lack of understanding that moving faculty lines around especially from arts and liberal arts to STEM programs is hard to do and leaves you in a funding pinch to get quality STEM faculty.....talk of adding programs that are not a good match with the overall university like a Pharmacology program or Bio Engineering when UNT is associated with a OSTEOPATHIC (holistic primary care) hospital not a medical research hospital....and UNT woefully under funds their engineering programs as it is......and is considering folding one.....that they cut once in the past because it was not going to be ABET accredited....then they opened it back up again in the ETEC department......only to just recently talk about folding it again.....because it will not obtain ABET accrediation

the progress that UNT has made came on the backs of enrollment increases and enrollment increases are only going to allow UNT to progress at the same level they are at today.....not to ADVANCE.....and I see nothing in the plan (that is about to be scrapped for a new one) that tells me UNT is going to do anything, but try and shift a few dollars around here and there and cross their fingers

No reply, I just want to run the computer out of paper reprinting the troll's post.

TodgeRodge · December 7, 2010

Ahh, ol' Check Facts is back at it again.

Brevity is not your strong suit. I have one question, "What is your beef with North Texas?" Prefer the answer to be in 5 sentences or less.

lack of leadership especially long term stable leadership

using the resources of the Denton campus to squander on failed dallas economic development projects

lack of concern on the Denton campus for science and engineering programs and lack of proper funding for them

lack of any attempts to ever raise outside funds

knee jerk, poorly planned, "hey lets give this a shot", uncoordinated, and wasteful allocation of available resources

forevereagle · December 7, 2010

lack of leadership especially long term stable leadership

using the resources of the Denton campus to squander on failed dallas economic development projects

lack of concern on the Denton campus for science and engineering programs and lack of proper funding for them

lack of any attempts to ever raise outside funds

knee jerk, poorly planned, "hey lets give this a shot", uncoordinated, and wasteful allocation of available resources

So why do you care as you seem to have no ties to the university? And why tell us as we have no input on the decisions and don't appreciate the way you bash our university?

untgirl04 · December 8, 2010

5. the dorms are nice, but many of them have been built with private money and are privately managed and that has lead to some student dissatisfaction with those dorms and I believe UNT had to step in and take over the management of at least one if not two of them to help clear it up

There were two residence halls built with private money: Santa Fe and Mozart Square. Those two buildings were taken over by Housing entirely in 2002 or 2003 (can't quite remember which). Since that time, the university has build the following residence halls: Victory Hall, Traditions Hall, Legends Hall, and Honors Hall. There have been plans for a twin of Victory Hall over by the new stadium, but the plan as I have seen it was always to build it after the AC and other things were completed on the Eagle Point property.

So to say that "many" of the halls were built with private money is incorrect. Of the 12 current residence halls, only two (16.6%) were not build by the university initially. That also doesn't take into account Kendall Hall (torn down now) or any of the other builds that were originally residence halls but were repurposed for education. And the two halls originally built by private money have been in full control of the university for nearly 10 years.

Cerebus · December 8, 2010

There were two residence halls built with private money: Santa Fe and Mozart Square. Those two buildings were taken over by Housing entirely in 2002 or 2003 (can't quite remember which). Since that time, the university has build the following residence halls: Victory Hall, Traditions Hall, Legends Hall, and Honors Hall. There have been plans for a twin of Victory Hall over by the new stadium, but the plan as I have seen it was always to build it after the AC and other things were completed on the Eagle Point property.

So to say that "many" of the halls were built with private money is incorrect. Of the 12 current residence halls, only two (16.6%) were not build by the university initially. That also doesn't take into account Kendall Hall (torn down now) or any of the other builds that were originally residence halls but were repurposed for education. And the two halls originally built by private money have been in full control of the university for nearly 10 years.

TodgeRodge just making stuff up? I am shocked! SHOCKED!

He is a troll, ignore him.

shaft · December 8, 2010

TodgeRodge just making stuff up? I am shocked! SHOCKED!

You mean TI isn't just giving out business parks? But his post was so long and had so many numbers.

eulessismore · December 8, 2010

You mean TI isn't just giving out business parks? But his post was so long and had so many numbers.

According to the following, it really wasn't Mark Twain who commented so famously on statisticians:

Wikipedia on Mark Twain, Liars, Damned Liars, and Statisticians.

I do like the part about using numbers to bolster weak arguments.

Aquila_Viridis · December 8, 2010

Like it, maybe SMU can become TCU-Dallas or better yet UNT-Dallas-II

Actually UT-Dallas would become UNT-Dallas North campus. Why do we have 3 different state university sytems operating institutions in the North Texas region???

Originally I just meant to say something mean about ULM, but I ended up restructuring public higher education in our state. I was so excited about this new vision that I decided to take it to the next level.

Texas faces dire budget shortfalls. To address critical needs, state government should be organized around 5 administrative regions. This would include higher education which should be arranged into 5 - and only 5 – state university systems. Accordingly you would have the UNT System, UET System, UST System, UWT System and UCT System.

Oklahoma's rivalry with the University of Central Texas' flagship institution in Austin would lose meaning. The current rivalry is an embarrassment to the state of Texas anyway. How can lil ol' Oklahoma stand up by itself to the great state of Texas and its 25 million citizens? It should take a 5 or 6-state University of the Midwest to stand up to a singular University of Texas. UT's failure to utterly dominate this 'rivalry' is a clear sign of the failure of the tired historic arrangement.

The Red River Rivalry would take on more meaning when OU is facing its closest competition across the river, and once the new reality takes hold, UNT will demonstrate on behalf of all Texans that one fifth of Texas is better than all of Oklahoma.

Of course as we know, UNT represents MORE than one fifth of Texas, and economically it represents the best of Texas. With a fair share of the state's total funding for higher education, UNT will be able to meet the full responsibilities of its role and assume an appropriate status of prominence, and likewise the institutions in the other systems will assume their appropriate positions.

Primo · December 8, 2010

Todge or toad or troll or whatever... no one is reading the long post... again.. be concise and maybe, just maybe, it wont look like you got released a little early from the institution...

Anyone can spew crap... not everyone can make sense doing it... sorry to break the news to you, but you fall into the latter group.

Still dislike SMU... and did I mention Kaplan...

Fluffer

Yellow Snow · December 8, 2010

Todge or toad or troll or whatever... no one is reading the long post... again.. be concise and maybe, just maybe, it wont look like you got released a little early from the institution...

Anyone can spew crap... not everyone can make sense doing it... sorry to break the news to you, but you fall into the latter group.

Still dislike SMU... and did I mention Kaplan...

Fluffer

I'll admit that I quit arguing with him when i realized I didn't really care enough to read through all of that. I trust that if there was anything relevant in there.. nobody else saw it either.

Therefore, I win.

UNTLifer · December 8, 2010

lack of leadership especially long term stable leadership

using the resources of the Denton campus to squander on failed dallas economic development projects

lack of concern on the Denton campus for science and engineering programs and lack of proper funding for them

lack of any attempts to ever raise outside funds

knee jerk, poorly planned, "hey lets give this a shot", uncoordinated, and wasteful allocation of available resources

So why are you barking up the tree of an athletic's fan website and not addressing your concern with those in a position to facilitate change? Besides, we really don't care about your agenda against all things NT. Time to pack your bags.

forevereagle · December 8, 2010

Troll%27s%2520Brain%2520and%2520memory.gif

Stan R · December 8, 2010

I propose that each member be given an emergency supply of negative posts. That would be a "break glass in case of emergency" setup. If you choose to use this, BE SURE IT IS ABSOLUTELTY NECESSARY. If you click it it will automatically impose 1,000 negative points. It would be a single use only for the lifetime of your GMG.com account.

This is a matter of national security.

Green Mean · December 8, 2010

lack of leadership especially long term stable leadership

using the resources of the Denton campus to squander on failed dallas economic development projects

lack of concern on the Denton campus for science and engineering programs and lack of proper funding for them

lack of any attempts to ever raise outside funds

knee jerk, poorly planned, "hey lets give this a shot", uncoordinated, and wasteful allocation of available resources

I think many on here believe the push for UNT-D is not liked but again you keep on saying lack of leadership....I don't understand where the lack of leadership comes from when so many new things have come and are continuing to come to UNT. A plan never goes exact and perfect...especially a university that is a public one at that. You make it sound like every other schools' administration has scoreboard on us and that just isn't the case. I have SMU buddies that have bitched about what their administration has done regarding many things but hey that's the way life go....nothing is perfect.

As far as the lack of commitment funding engineering and science programs...how do you know they aren't trying? You can beg for people to give you money but if you don't get it then there is nothing you can do about that. I get calls every now and then from our school on donating to specific schools/degrees etc and in the end it's up to me. Don't fault the current administration. I think they are trying their best and at some point it will all come together.

I think it's borderline retarded to think that the school would spend millions and millions and millions of dollars on new facilities and have the "hey lets give this a shot" attitude. And as far as your remark on the dorms being donated by a certain amount of people and what not.....so on one hand you say you can measure of a schools power on alumni/people giving back but when it comes to UNT you say it's a lack of leadership and administration?

Again while you have had valid points in the past and still do...I think your agenda clearly discredits anything and everything UNT ever does. And that is fine...you're entitled to your opinion but don't think every other university/college doesn't have its share of flaws too.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Green Mean

eulessismore · December 9, 2010

I think many on here believe the push for UNT-D is not liked but again you keep on saying lack of leadership....I don't understand where the lack of leadership comes from when so many new things have come and are continuing to come to UNT. A plan never goes exact and perfect...especially a university that is a public one at that. You make it sound like every other schools' administration has scoreboard on us and that just isn't the case. I have SMU buddies that have bitched about what their administration has done regarding many things but hey that's the way life go....nothing is perfect.

As far as the lack of commitment funding engineering and science programs...how do you know they aren't trying? You can beg for people to give you money but if you don't get it then there is nothing you can do about that. I get calls every now and then from our school on donating to specific schools/degrees etc and in the end it's up to me. Don't fault the current administration. I think they are trying their best and at some point it will all come together.

I think it's borderline retarded to think that the school would spend millions and millions and millions of dollars on new facilities and have the "hey lets give this a shot" attitude. And as far as your remark on the dorms being donated by a certain amount of people and what not.....so on one hand you say you can measure of a schools power on alumni/people giving back but when it comes to UNT you say it's a lack of leadership and administration?

Again while you have had valid points in the past and still do...I think your agenda clearly discredits anything and everything UNT ever does. And that is fine...you're entitled to your opinion but don't think every other university/college doesn't have its share of flaws too.

+1, and I'll actually read one of TodgeRodge/CheckFacts' posts if it is recognizable as critical of some other university without having to read through a mishmash of incoherent verbiage first to determine what is really being said. And none of this "they had this problem, but here's my excuse for that".

Rudy · December 9, 2010

I propose that each member be given an emergency supply of negative posts. That would be a "break glass in case of emergency" setup. If you choose to use this, BE SURE IT IS ABSOLUTELTY NECESSARY. If you click it it will automatically impose 1,000 negative points. It would be a single use only for the lifetime of your GMG.com account.

This is a matter of national security.

Negative Ghostrider. My reputation standing would never recover. It's already on life support. :fpc: