Hated Rivals

[Yellow Snow]

the Big 10 plays 8 conference games.....not 9......which means 11 teams X 12 games = 132 games 44 OOC and 88 IC (or more importantly 44 guaranteed conference losses)

if they did a RR-1 it would be 132 games and 99 IN and 33 OOC (49.5 auto losses) and that would obviously be a disaster with uneven schedules

if they all played that would be 132 with 110 IN and 22 OOC and most importantly 55 guaranteed losses for the conference

so they would have a guarantee of 11 more losses in the conference every year which would average to an additional loss per team (though obviously it would not end up like that)

if you were to add the ability to win 5 more games per year to the last few seasons of the PAC 10 and their teams were able to take advantage and win all of those games their conference would probably not look near as crappy those years and they would probably have had more bowl cash to split up and possibly be that much more attractive to the networks for future conferences

****

the argument I was making is that saying "we are indifferent all these years because we were not where we wanted to be".....when there were a multitude of opportunities to make meaningful improvements.....and multiple examples of other programs that did make and benefit from those improvements.....including some that were not even around in the past when you did not get where you wanted to be......is not really a persuasive argument to say we did belong there, we should have been there, we were cheated from being there, and we are still paying for it today

and it is not really a persuasive argument that suddenly you are going to start to deliver what you have had decades to deliver

as for giving up....I would say there should be a "give up" for the idea that just a couple of things here and there is all that needs to be tweaked and and suddenly me, the old SWC, SMU, and the rest will suddenly be eating our words or wishing all those years ago UNT had been let into the SWC...or that the new Big 12 will call....or the MWC.....or even CUSA

or that the fans will suddenly start pouring in in droves.....or that improvements in the conference situation will be eminent

as much as UNT fans love to mock SMU.....the fact is if all it took to win again consistently for the long term was a new stadium SMU would have been winning since 2000......if having a winning season or two and a bowl game was all it took for huge fan support SMU would be selling out.....TCU would be selling seats in their basketball arena for football games on the big screen

several on here call TCUs stadium a dump (even though most say it has excellent sight lines and is a great place to watch a game)......but TCU playing in that "dump" is #3 in the USA.....will be in their second straight BCS game, and will have their third top 10 finish

it takes a clear, long term, top down, focused, well written, and ever evolving plan to take a program where TCU, USF, Boise and others have......you have to be in the position to immediately take advantage of every single opportunity that is availed to you to improve your situation

none of that starts with "just wait until we win and the fans show up".......none of that starts with just building a stadium and saying "now we win and the fans come" (see SMU).......none of that comes with just a single coach (see Boise and TCU)......none of that comes with still refusing to have a clear evaluation of your past and how you arrived where you are currently at.....none of that comes with missing out on past and present opportunities and saying "wait until we are winning next time"......and none of that just comes from the AD and the athletics department

It’s a chicken and egg argument… success brings fans or fans bring success. Both will work.

I don’t know the politics involved in all of the past conference shuffling involving SMU, TCU, or UNT so I can’t comment on whether or not UNT was ”jobbed” by not being invited. I am simply trying to point out that past performance isn’t necessarily an accurate indicator of future success… especially in athletics. Each school doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Everything is relative… success or lack thereof.

My main point is this:

From an outsider’s perspective UNT has all of the key ingredients needed to succeed, except a hugely supportive fanbase. Sustained winning will take care of that. I’m not talking about 3 or 4 years of decent records… I’m talking about dominating the conference. I have no doubt that North Texas has the potential to absolutely rule the Sunbelt Conference. Heck – given a chance NOW (not 10 years ago) they could be a major factor in Conf-USA, the MWC, etc.

Honest question for you. If given a spot in Conference USA do you think UNT would be able to win there? I’m going to go out on a limb and say that you think they wouldn’t. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I think given the chance they would be a major player provided the administration was committed to winning. Everything else is already there.

I keep going back to I-State, but the parallels are uncanny. Our season ticket base was around 25k when Dan McCarney was hired. When he left we had ~35k football season ticket holders. Jack Trice stadium only has 42,500 permanent seats. That is a HUGE boost to the athletic department. In Dan’s tenure our football facilities were massively improved:

1. Replaced the crappy Astroturf with a natural surface

2. Built the athletics complex building in the north endzone (new locker rooms, coach’s offices, etc.)

3. Built a press box. Believe it or not, but we didn’t even have a basic press box when Dan got to I-State

4. Installed a large jumbotron video board in the south endzone

5. Built the football only indoor practice facility

6. Built an academic center for football (mainly)

7. Built football player dorms. Essentially an apartment complex with 24 hour cafeteria for football players only. Pretty sweet place actually…

I attribute our exponential increase in success to these improvements. Build the facilities to get the coaches and players. Then they win. This brings in more fans. More money comes in and facilities can be improved again…. etc… on and on… UNT has the facilities and coach to do this now. I don't get where the SMU arrogance is coming from...

[TodgeRodge]

It’s a chicken and egg argument… success brings fans or fans bring success. Both will work.

Honest question for you. If given a spot in Conference USA do you think UNT would be able to win there? I’m going to go out on a limb and say that you think they wouldn’t. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I think given the chance they would be a major player provided the administration was committed to winning. Everything else is already there.

I attribute our exponential increase in success to these improvements. Build the facilities to get the coaches and players. Then they win. This brings in more fans. More money comes in and facilities can be improved again…. etc… on and on… UNT has the facilities and coach to do this now. I don't get where the SMU arrogance is coming from...

I think fans can help some at home games.....but other than that you can still win with an empty stadium and of course an empty stadium on the road could be a benefit

I think fans come from the idea that the program will do the things needed to try and field a winning team each and every season.......taking a few singular actions one at a time without a clear defined long term plan may be enough to have a small streak of wins, but not enough to build long term fan support or a long term successful program year in and year out

I agree 100% the administration needs to be committed to winning.......most other schools in D1-A could make the same claims that everything else is there......new stadiums are built all the time, old stadiums are improved even more often....that has payed off for some.....some it has not......those it has payed off for had a long term clearly defined plan in place as well and it was well presented to their fans and supporters

Sure UNT COULD win in any conference.....they would probably have a better chance to win in CUSA than many others.......would they win there......possibly......would they win there consistently.....if I had to place money I would place it on no they would not win consistently.....again could they.....yes......would they.....based on their past records......based on the things other schools have in place and have had in place for a long time in CUSA......and the winning those places have done in the past......briefly.......before losing consistently again......I would say the chances of long term sustained success in CUSA would be less than 50/50

when there are 120+ D1-A schools.....a program in one of the lesser conferences.....and they still have a small budget, new facilities to pay for with that budget, lower levels of fan support, and low levels of alumni financial support.....it is difficult to sustain winning long term

Southern Miss was able to have a very good run of winning.....they wanted to put their big boy pants on and "dominate" and here they are today......still winning, but still not dominating.....Tulsa is having a good run and looks to desire to continue to bring in named coaches as theirs go elsewhere.....and they seem to be able to hang on to their current coach for longer than most.....ECU had a good run

so I guess it depends on what "winning" really means......could UNT specifically in any conference put on a run like Boise, TCU, or USF......they could.....I don't think they would anytime soon

I am not for sure where "the SMU arrogance" comes from, but I suspect some SMU students and alumni do that specifically to others that constantly accuse them of being arrogant, rich, or responsible for their teams success or failure.....I know a guy that played for SMU during the Forest Gregg years.....he was recently in a discussion with me about why welfare in it's current form is good and he cited an example of his family being on it at one time......so I will ask him where the arrogance comes from next time I see him

Edited December 6, 2010 by TodgeRodge

[eulessismore]

I think fans can help some at home games.....but other than that you can still win with an empty stadium and of course an empty stadium on the road could be a benefit

I think fans come from the idea that the program will do the things needed to try and field a winning team each and every season.......taking a few singular actions one at a time without a clear defined long term plan may be enough to have a small streak of wins, but not enough to build long term fan support or a long term successful program year in and year out

I agree 100% the administration needs to be committed to winning.......most other schools in D1-A could make the same claims that everything else is there......new stadiums are built all the time, old stadiums are improved even more often....that has payed off for some.....some it has not......those it has payed off for had a long term clearly defined plan in place as well and it was well presented to their fans and supporters

Sure UNT COULD win in any conference.....they would probably have a better chance to win in CUSA than many others.......would they win there......possibly......would they win there consistently.....if I had to place money I would place it on no they would not win consistently.....again could they.....yes......would they.....based on their past records......based on the things other schools have in place and have had in place for a long time in CUSA......and the winning those places have done in the past......briefly.......before losing consistently again......I would say the chances of long term sustained success in CUSA would be less than 50/50

when there are 120+ D1-A schools.....a program in one of the lesser conferences.....and they still have a small budget, new facilities to pay for with that budget, lower levels of fan support, and low levels of alumni financial support.....it is difficult to sustain winning long term

Southern Miss was able to have a very good run of winning.....they wanted to put their big boy pants on and "dominate" and here they are today......still winning, but still not dominating.....Tulsa is having a good run and looks to desire to continue to bring in named coaches as theirs go elsewhere.....and they seem to be able to hang on to their current coach for longer than most.....ECU had a good run

so I guess it depends on what "winning" really means......could UNT specifically in any conference put on a run like Boise, TCU, or USF......they could.....I don't think they would anytime soon

I am not for sure where "the SMU arrogance" comes from, but I suspect some SMU students and alumni do that specifically to others that constantly accuse them of being arrogant, rich, or responsible for their teams success or failure.....I know a guy that played for SMU during the Forest Gregg years.....he was recently in a discussion with me about why welfare in it's current form is good and he cited an example of his family being on it at one time......so I will ask him where the arrogance comes from next time I see him

Toastmasters is a good organization for those who have difficulty speaking effectively. You might consider looking into whether they could also help one's writing; I think Quoner had some useful suggestions for you. I have found that by skipping down to your last paragraph, I can avoid reading material easily found on collegefootballdatawarehouse or wikipedia. Your posts have been useful lately when I've had problems sleeping, but most people prefer a concise writing style if they're interested in what a person has to say. If you'd look around at what others are posting here, you'd find many of them try to be at least somewhat entertaining.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Putting it all on UNT is stupid, considering the fact that it's part of a public university system and bigger schools have more juice in Austin.

UNT was kept out of the SWC because member schools saw the direction we were going in enrollment. They were afraid we'd overshadow the smaller private schools in Fort Worth and Dallas by the sheer volume of our student body.

Over time, this is happening. You can't put as many alumni into the area as UNT has done the past 20 years and not become a regional player.

"They" in your statement means SMU, TCU and Baylor which verbalized opposition to us entering the conference in late 70's after Houston had been allowed in..... Royal and Broyle {UT and Arkansas) wanted to allow us in and make the conference ten teams... the others did not say much either way but seemed to lean in our direction... SMU lead to opposition against us... What they did really changed the direction of UNT which was very good in football and basketball at the time. Those of us were already UNT alums at that time (late 70's) absolutely depise them and also many of their "put downs" which appear in local papers and TV reports rather regularly. I wish them no success or good things.... and they are the only Texas university I never root for against anyone.... I support 0-70 against them every game.

Edited December 6, 2010 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[FirefightnRick]

I've unmasked your secret identity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY_oKve-bH0

Rick

[TodgeRodge]

"They" in your statement means SMU, TCU and Baylor which verbalized opposition to us entering the conference in late 70's after Houston had been allowed in..... Royal and Broyle {UT and Arkansas) wanted to allow us in and make the conference ten teams... the others did not say much either way but seemed to lean in our direction... SMU lead to opposition against us... What they did really changed the direction of UNT which was very good in football and basketball at the time. Those of us were already UNT alums at that time (late 70's) absolutely depise them and also many of their "put downs" which appear in local papers and TV reports rather regularly. I wish them no success or good things.... and they are the only Texas university I never root for against anyone.... I support 0-70 against them every game.

http://books.google.com/books?id=bANS-aNcpn4C&pg=PP8&lpg=PP8&dq=hayden+fry+book&source=bl&ots=XTRVl_1xNS&sig=sFKB424v1DhlZQUL4Fc31Ytjcko&hl=en&ei=4jj8TITnL8P_lge1u-CMBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=hayden%20fry%20book&f=false

page 94

"""We thought the Dallas-Fort Worth area should have a state school in the conference, and we got no objection from SMU and TCU. Texas and Arkansas supported us, as did Houston, a new member of the league. There were ongoing discussions about our, but someone always brought up academic standards and admissions requirements, areas where North Texas was thought to be lagging by conference standards. The talks continued and the interest was always there, and I think North Texas had a chance to be accepted had I stayed. But it never came to a vote, and after I left nobody pushed it. """

[rcade]

sorry if a differing opinion (in my opinion supported with some reasonable conclusions) does not sit well with you.....but sitting around chanting the same mantra and ending up with the same less than satisfactory results decades later does not seem to sit well with you either

Who's chanting? You wanted to know why some UNT fans have animosity against SMU and I explained it.

I think UNT has done as much as it could to work towards a better conference affiliation, aside from hiring Todd Dodge. But it's not like there's any guarantee that a coach you hire will work out.

We did enough to get a WAC invite, and were smart enough to turn it down. If we got a CUSA invite, I think it would be a great home for us.

[eulessismore]

the Big 10 plays 8 conference games.....not 9......which means 11 teams X 12 games = 132 games 44 OOC and 88 IC (or more importantly 44 guaranteed conference losses)

if they did a RR-1 it would be 132 games and 99 IN and 33 OOC (49.5 auto losses) and that would obviously be a disaster with uneven schedules

if they all played that would be 132 with 110 IN and 22 OOC and most importantly 55 guaranteed losses for the conference

so they would have a guarantee of 11 more losses in the conference every year which would average to an additional loss per team (though obviously it would not end up like that)

if you were to add the ability to win 5 more games per year to the last few seasons of the PAC 10 and their teams were able to take advantage and win all of those games their conference would probably not look near as crappy those years and they would probably have had more bowl cash to split up and possibly be that much more attractive to the networks for future conferences

****

the argument I was making is that saying "we are indifferent all these years because we were not where we wanted to be".....when there were a multitude of opportunities to make meaningful improvements.....and multiple examples of other programs that did make and benefit from those improvements.....including some that were not even around in the past when you did not get where you wanted to be......is not really a persuasive argument to say we did belong there, we should have been there, we were cheated from being there, and we are still paying for it today

and it is not really a persuasive argument that suddenly you are going to start to deliver what you have had decades to deliver

as for giving up....I would say there should be a "give up" for the idea that just a couple of things here and there is all that needs to be tweaked and and suddenly me, the old SWC, SMU, and the rest will suddenly be eating our words or wishing all those years ago UNT had been let into the SWC...or that the new Big 12 will call....or the MWC.....or even CUSA

or that the fans will suddenly start pouring in in droves.....or that improvements in the conference situation will be eminent

as much as UNT fans love to mock SMU.....the fact is if all it took to win again consistently for the long term was a new stadium SMU would have been winning since 2000......if having a winning season or two and a bowl game was all it took for huge fan support SMU would be selling out.....TCU would be selling seats in their basketball arena for football games on the big screen

several on here call TCUs stadium a dump (even though most say it has excellent sight lines and is a great place to watch a game)......but TCU playing in that "dump" is #3 in the USA.....will be in their second straight BCS game, and will have their third top 10 finish

it takes a clear, long term, top down, focused, well written, and ever evolving plan to take a program where TCU, USF, Boise and others have......you have to be in the position to immediately take advantage of every single opportunity that is availed to you to improve your situation

none of that starts with "just wait until we win and the fans show up".......none of that starts with just building a stadium and saying "now we win and the fans come" (see SMU).......none of that comes with just a single coach (see Boise and TCU)......none of that comes with still refusing to have a clear evaluation of your past and how you arrived where you are currently at.....none of that comes with missing out on past and present opportunities and saying "wait until we are winning next time"......and none of that just comes from the AD and the athletics department

So, what's your solution, and what have you done since 1922 to accomplish it?

[TodgeRodge]

So, what's your solution

unfortunately when I discuss answers to questions like this I get banned, have posting privileges restricted or have PM privileges removed

Edited December 6, 2010 by TodgeRodge

[eulessismore]

unfortunately when I discuss answers to questions like this I get banned, have posting privileges restricted or have PM privileges removed

Honestly, I've never seen the admins here ban people for simply stating what might make our football program better. Or is that your interest in being here? This is a forum for UNT football fans, after all.

[TodgeRodge]

Honestly, I've never seen the admins here ban people for simply stating what might make our football program better. Or is that your interest in being here? This is a forum for UNT football fans, after all.

UNT needs a clear, long term plan, from the very upper echelons of the leadership chain with defined goals and the expectations of when and how they will be met....I have concerns that UNT does not have that in place and will not have that in place for a long while and during that gap in creation of, and total university implementation of, that plan (if ever) UNT will miss yet more chances to advance their position for the future....I also feel that missing that move in the future will probably be the last chance to catch a ride on the train UNT wants to be on and the results will be that UNT is on a different path for the long term....period

I expressed those concerns in a now disappeared thread about the current president being put into place......and that thread was removed and I was banned for about 3 weeks from posting

GMG prefers to discuss things in the form of...

+1

gagree

Edited December 6, 2010 by TodgeRodge

[eulessismore]

UNT needs a clear, long term plan, from the very upper echelons of the leadership chain with defined goals and the expectations of when and how they will be met....I have concerns that UNT does not have that in place and will not have that in place for a long while and during that gap in creation of, and total university implementation of, that plan (if ever) UNT will miss yet more chances to advance their position for the future....I also feel that missing that move in the future will probably be the last chance to catch a ride on the train UNT wants to be on and the results will be that UNT is on a different path for the long term....period

I expressed those concerns in a now disappeared thread about the current president being put into place......and that thread was removed and I was banned for about 3 weeks from posting

GMG prefers to discuss things in the form of...

+1

gagree

Well, he's the president now, and I'm sure many here expressed negative opinions about him during the recent HFC hire. Many of those expressing said opinions have gotten on board with that hire (as I have, especially with Canales being retained). Really, isn't everything that's been said just opinion? I know there are some things that Rawlins has done as a university administrator with which I disagree, but there are many with which I find great merit. He brought more research money to Wazzu and Memphis.

He had various roles with intercollegiate sports at both schools and elsewhere. Some of them I find questionable, such as the Calipari hire at Memphis; others, such as basically rubberstamping the Jim Doba hire at Wazzu and helping found the CUSA, I find praiseworthy. Overall, I think he stays involved in academics and sports. Honestly, I think he's found a passion for North Texas.

Still, whether you or I agree with what I consider political appointments that appear to have the fingerprints of the Governor of Texas on them, there are a lot of things we can do as alums, starting with at least showing up for school activities and providing what financial support we find appropriate and affordable. You do at least show up for some home athletic events and music concerts, don't you?

[Primo]

UNT needs a clear, long term plan, from the very upper echelons of the leadership chain with defined goals and the expectations of when and how they will be met....I have concerns that UNT does not have that in place and will not have that in place for a long while and during that gap in creation of, and total university implementation of, that plan (if ever) UNT will miss yet more chances to advance their position for the future....I also feel that missing that move in the future will probably be the last chance to catch a ride on the train UNT wants to be on and the results will be that UNT is on a different path for the long term....period

I expressed those concerns in a now disappeared thread about the current president being put into place......and that thread was removed and I was banned for about 3 weeks from posting

GMG prefers to discuss things in the form of...

+1

gagree

You're getting closer to those short and concise replies... keep trying....

Still dislike SMU... oh, and now subtract LeTourneau, but add UT-Tyler...

[TodgeRodge]

Well, he's the president now, and I'm sure many here expressed negative opinions about him during the recent HFC hire. Many of those expressing said opinions have gotten on board with that hire (as I have, especially with Canales being retained). Really, isn't everything that's been said just opinion? I know there are some things that Rawlins has done as a university administrator with which I disagree, but there are many with which I find great merit. He brought more research money to Wazzu and Memphis.

He had various roles with intercollegiate sports at both schools and elsewhere. Some of them I find questionable, such as the Calipari hire at Memphis; others, such as basically rubberstamping the Jim Doba hire at Wazzu and helping found the CUSA, I find praiseworthy. Overall, I think he stays involved in academics and sports. Honestly, I think he's found a passion for North Texas.

Still, whether you or I agree with what I consider political appointments that appear to have the fingerprints of the Governor of Texas on them, there are a lot of things we can do as alums, starting with at least showing up for school activities and providing what financial support we find appropriate and affordable. You do at least show up for some home athletic events and music concerts, don't you?

well my concerns again go to the long term administration of the university....not the relatively short term aspect of a coaching search (though this particular hire for UNT at this particular time is critical)

he was at Memphis for 9 years and WU for 8.....he just turned 73 last month

he looks like the Chuck Neinas of university presidents to me......hired to come in and do some things and poof magic it is all better now......I don't think that is how the academic side of a university can or should function

I also of course question the motives (and have for years on this forum) of the one that was responsible for placing him in that position

even if a great plan can be written....I question what type of person will be willing to come in and run someone elses plan.....and because of who hired him I have questions about what will be told to him about what will be important for this plan.....because I question if a period of 9 months (some of which you were not even looking to become the full time replacement) is long enough to get a full grasp on what a university really wants or needs

"tier 1" will not be a one, two, or three year process for UNT.....raising a research profile is not a 2 or 3 year project.......nor is a fund raiser

"tier 1" would probably have a change of president during the process.....the other two.....I am not sure they will be in the process.....and that concerns me

as for Rick Perry.....I voted for him.....he was far in away the better of the two candidates (though far from optimum)......but I hate to break the bad news to you, but I am not sure Rick Perry even knows UNT exist......I am positive he does not concern himself with how UNT is run or who is running it.....because for the time being the real leadership of UNT has been bartered away to others so that Rick Perry and others can worry about other things...and that concerns me as well

[eulessismore]

well my concerns again go to the long term administration of the university....not the relatively short term aspect of a coaching search (though this particular hire for UNT at this particular time is critical)

he was at Memphis for 9 years and WU for 8.....he just turned 73 last month

he looks like the Chuck Neinas of university presidents to me......hired to come in and do some things and poof magic it is all better now......I don't think that is how the academic side of a university can or should function

I also of course question the motives (and have for years on this forum) of the one that was responsible for placing him in that position

even if a great plan can be written....I question what type of person will be willing to come in and run someone elses plan.....and because of who hired him I have questions about what will be told to him about what will be important for this plan.....because I question if a period of 9 months (some of which you were not even looking to become the full time replacement) is long enough to get a full grasp on what a university really wants or needs

"tier 1" will not be a one, two, or three year process for UNT.....raising a research profile is not a 2 or 3 year project.......nor is a fund raiser

"tier 1" would probably have a change of president during the process.....the other two.....I am not sure they will be in the process.....and that concerns me

as for Rick Perry.....I voted for him.....he was far in away the better of the two candidates (though far from optimum)......but I hate to break the bad news to you, but I am not sure Rick Perry even knows UNT exist......I am positive he does not concern himself with how UNT is run or who is running it.....because for the time being the real leadership of UNT has been bartered away to others so that Rick Perry and others can worry about other things...and that concerns me as well

I hate to break the bad news to you, but that usage calls for "exists", not "exist". However, that doesn't go directly to your assertion that Rick Perry doesn't know that UNT "exist". If he didn't know that UNT "exist", why did he have the athletic fee legislation rewritten in the manner that he did before he would sign it? And in case you believe that Rick Perry does not concern himself with "how UNT is run or who is running it", could you tell us who nominates candidates for the Board of Regents? And nothing in any of that explains the arrogance with which you long windedly provided no "facts to check" other than your opinions, which like Rick Perry's economic analyses, always cherry pick a time frame to suit a preordained conclusion.

And you still haven't answered the question of whether you support the university in any way, attendance at anything, any kind of support, other than your lengthy and self adulatory diatribes under your various screen names.

Edited December 6, 2010 by eulessismore

[Primo]

Still dislike SMU... and now i don't like LeTourneau again

[izembower]

i know on NCAA football it lists MTSU as a rival. however, it'd be nice to get a state rivalry going. it would help promote UNT football to the students. people love to hate someone, especially a team or school that's in the area. in high school, we had a hated rivalry with a team in the same city as us, and that was ALWAYS the most intense game of the year. i miss it, and i'd like to see one get going with some team, ANY TEAM in texas.

[eulessismore]

i know on NCAA football it lists MTSU as a rival. however, it'd be nice to get a state rivalry going. it would help promote UNT football to the students. people love to hate someone, especially a team or school that's in the area. in high school, we had a hated rivalry with a team in the same city as us, and that was ALWAYS the most intense game of the year. i miss it, and i'd like to see one get going with some team, ANY TEAM in texas.

I think Houston is the rival of our future. We helped get them started in football, when Theron Fouts cosponsored them into the Lone Star Conference.

[rcade]

UNT needs a clear, long term plan, from the very upper echelons of the leadership chain with defined goals and the expectations of when and how they will be met....I have concerns that UNT does not have that in place and will not have that in place for a long while and during that gap in creation of, and total university implementation of, that plan (if ever) UNT will miss yet more chances to advance their position for the future....I also feel that missing that move in the future will probably be the last chance to catch a ride on the train UNT wants to be on and the results will be that UNT is on a different path for the long term....period

So your solution is that UNT needs a plan and they need to implement that plan in the future?

Why didn't the rest of us think of that?

Saying that a plan is needed is not the same thing as actually having a plan.

You would be a good university president. You have mastered the ability to say a lot without saying anything at all.

[untcampbell]

SMU, MTSU, NMSU, UTA (the only multiple sport rivalry we ever had)...I would throw in LaTech if we every played.

But of all of those, I can only give you an explanation for one: SMU.

Forgive if this comes across as class envy, but that is not it.

One pivotal moment for me, for which I should be discredited from the start because I can't remember the exact game:

Believe it was the 1981 SMU/NTSU game at Texas Stadium. The Pony Express dominated, and we lost something like 34-7.

Towards the end of the game, Dickerson broke for a long one. During the last 10 yards of his run, he turned around and backpedaled into the end zone,

while pointing his finger in the face of an approaching DB. That, in itself, was a pisser.

But in context, it was later exposed that the "pointer" was bought and paid for, that all that early 80's success was ill-gotten excess.

I have no problem with SMU getting the death penalty for that epic cheat. Ironically, I can side with the SMU fan that says they were

singled out and that "bigger" schools have gotten much less for at least as bad.

So it is circular...the Dickerson persona, the James legacy (to me, he is most remembered as a helicopter parent), the Death Penalty.

And then, SMU fan positioning himself as the little guy, i.e. mid-major, thus putting SMU in the same boat as us.

And with a footnote, I like June Jones...nice purchase.

GMG

[Eagle-96]

Dear Santa,

Please bring Todge Rodge a prescription for Lithium this year. Pretty please also bring Todge Rodge a lifetimes supply of Gas-X. Oh yeah and lots and lots of cash for all of the wonderfull kids that want to play for SMOOOO. But remember to keep the cash under the table Santa. That is unless you know the governor and/or Dale Hanson.

P.S: I know that TR hasn't been a good girl this year but please bring her extra Masengill because it sure is hard to be so douchey.

[UNTFan23]

Dear Santa,

Please bring Todge Rodge a prescription for Lithium this year. Pretty please also bring Todge Rodge a lifetimes supply of Gas-X. Oh yeah and lots and lots of cash for all of the wonderfull kids that want to play for SMOOOO. But remember to keep the cash under the table Santa. That is unless you know the governor and/or Dale Hanson.

P.S: I know that TR hasn't been a good girl this year but please bring her extra Masengill because it sure is hard to be so douchey.

[TodgeRodge]

So your solution is that UNT needs a plan and they need to implement that plan in the future?

Why didn't the rest of us think of that?

Saying that a plan is needed is not the same thing as actually having a plan.

You would be a good university president. You have mastered the ability to say a lot without saying anything at all.

1. have a plan but it is difficult to articulate on a message board....I am 99% sure most on here would mock it mainly because it came from me and also because they would not like some of the associations and they would not see the synergies of some of the parts of the plan.....they would not like how long it would take and they would probably not like the fact that it was dealing with getting groups from dozens to hundreds maybe a few per game and maybe a dozen total of those year in and year out.....it would not be anything that would just all at one time get 5,000 more to show up......it would be something that over 10 or so years built a core of several thousand new fans many without a past association to the university and the hope each of them would bring a guest or two to a couple of games a year.....it would require the cooperation of the entire university, a dozen or more departments, every college or school, the REC center, UNT performance arts, the grant writing and research support group and on and on.....it would probably at first require UNT fans and students to have a thick skin about some of the associated businesses....and no it is not anything perverse or profane it is something the DFW metromess is based upon, it is not that exciting or "sexy" (shout out to sexytime), and I am pretty sure it would be easy to discount and hard to get traction at first...it would also require a great deal of monitoring and data gathering and "sales" from the athletics department and the willingness of athletics to pay students of certain departments some small wage to do internships towards those "information and sales" goals and it would require the cooperation of those departments....it would require a council of research leaders from the academic side to work with athletics to take advantage of all hoped for synergies from the denia area facilities......it would require political pull to arrange state dollars to be leveraged to help obtain private dollars and it would require a lot of scatter shooting with creative grant writing with a % hoped return to improve the denia facilities to further be able to market them and to build the synergies to finally sell a total package that would be attractive to long term sponsors about what investing in UNT and UNT athletics would be able to do for them financially.....anywhere from 200K at the cheapest end with a lot of volunteer effort and a LONG see 10+ year vision BEFORE there is a real big time payout and things really start to come together......2 million up front might get you to where 7 years and a hell of a lot of work gets a smaller time payout that could be leveraged in a couple of years for a larger payout.......if one or two things clicked it could be quicker...all that for again about 5K additional hard core fans at the end of the time and perhaps 2-5 million in additional, unencumbered, yearly, private, athletics support over and above any additional tickets concessions or parking and hopefully 5 to 7 million in research and academic programming support

2. the issue I have is that UNT does not have and has not had stable leadership to even begin to work on whatever plan they might want (if any)......and with the current hire......I see more instability and another change in leadership and possibly in direction much too soon for a university that needs long term stable leadership

3. I would have positively been a better president than at least 2 out of the last 4.....and if I was the last one before VLR I would still be there after a heated confrontation that involved myself, faculty, and students confronting the chancellor and eventually him losing a power struggle and being let go with no golden parachute and a swift kick in the ass back to dallas

when you have turnover at the top, others higher up with alternate agendas, the lack of ability to have anyone that can step up when needed at critical times and fully explain and support how you are going to build and fund new facilities....or when the construction will start.....or when it will finish......or what future budget projections look like......or what future fund raising goals will be.....or the expected time frame to meet those goals......it is easy for a conference that has multiple universities to choose from to make the choice for another school that has clearly written, well defined goals and expectations that have firm dates and times as to when particular things will happen

Edited December 6, 2010 by TodgeRodge

[forevereagle]

1. have a plan but it is difficult to articulate on a message board....I am 99% sure most on here would mock it mainly because it came from me and also because they would not like some of the associations and they would not see the synergies of some of the parts of the plan.....they would not like how long it would take and they would probably not like the fact that it was dealing with getting groups from dozens to hundreds maybe a few per game and maybe a dozen total of those year in and year out.....it would not be anything that would just all at one time get 5,000 more to show up......it would be something that over 10 or so years built a core of several thousand new fans many without a past association to the university and the hope each of them would bring a guest or two to a couple of games a year.....it would require the cooperation of the entire university, a dozen or more departments, every college or school, the REC center, UNT performance arts, the grant writing and research support group and on and on.....it would probably at first require UNT fans and students to have a thick skin about some of the associated businesses....and no it is not anything perverse or profane it is something the DFW metromess is based upon, it is not that exciting or "sexy" (shout out to sexytime), and I am pretty sure it would be easy to discount and hard to get traction at first...it would also require a great deal of monitoring and data gathering and "sales" from the athletics department and the willingness of athletics to pay students of certain departments some small wage to do internships towards those "information and sales" goals and it would require the cooperation of those departments....it would require a council of research leaders from the academic side to work with athletics to take advantage of all hoped for synergies from the denia area facilities......it would require political pull to arrange state dollars to be leveraged to help obtain private dollars and it would require a lot of scatter shooting with creative grant writing with a % hoped return to improve the denia facilities to further be able to market them and to build the synergies to finally sell a total package that would be attractive to long term sponsors about what investing in UNT and UNT athletics would be able to do for them financially.....anywhere from 200K at the cheapest end with a lot of volunteer effort and a LONG see 10+ year vision BEFORE there is a real big time payout and things really start to come together......2 million up front might get you to where 7 years and a hell of a lot of work gets a smaller time payout that could be leveraged in a couple of years for a larger payout.......if one or two things clicked it could be quicker...all that for again about 5K additional hard core fans at the end of the time and perhaps 2-5 million in additional, unencumbered, yearly, private, athletics support over and above any additional tickets concessions or parking and hopefully 5 to 7 million in research and academic programming support

2. the issue I have is that UNT does not have and has not had stable leadership to even begin to work on whatever plan they might want (if any)......and with the current hire......I see more instability and another change in leadership and possibly in direction much too soon for a university that needs long term stable leadership

3. I would have positively been a better president than at least 2 out of the last 4.....and if I was the last one before VLR I would still be there after a heated confrontation that involved myself, faculty, and students confronting the chancellor and eventually him losing a power struggle and being let go with no golden parachute and a swift kick in the ass back to dallas

when you have turnover at the top, others higher up with alternate agendas, the lack of ability to have anyone that can step up when needed at critical times and fully explain and support how you are going to build and fund new facilities....or when the construction will start.....or when it will finish......or what future budget projections look like......or what future fund raising goals will be.....or the expected time frame to meet those goals......it is easy for a conference that has multiple universities to choose from to make the choice for another school that has clearly written, well defined goals and expectations that have firm dates and times as to when particular things will happen

I am going to admit that I didn't read all this, but I needed to throw some things in here.

1. Way too long and not well organized. Even Plum gives us some paragraph breaks.

2. Shift key. I can tell you know how to use it, but you may be confused on when.

3. Take a break on the ellipses. I feel like there may be a subliminal message in there with Morse Code.

If you are going to write a novel, try to help us read the thing and make some sense of it.

Edited December 6, 2010 by forevereagle

[VideoEagle]

I am going to admit that I didn't read all this, but I needed to throw some things in here.

1. Way too long and not well organized. Even Plum gives us some paragraph breaks.

2. Shift key. I can tell you know how to use it, but you may be confused on when.

3. Take a break on the ellipses. I feel like there may be a subliminal message in there with Morse Code.

If you are going to write a novel, try to help us read the thing and make some sense of it.

Rather than read the whole thing, just don't. If you ignore trolls they go away. This site has a great ignore feature called "ignore user" that is wonderful for avoiding trolls.