Mwc: What Would North Texas Bring To The Table?

ColoradoEagle · December 4, 2010

i don't see how you can read a negative tone into my post unless you are just looking for one. the point i was trying to make is what is the plan to increase attendance , which has peaked in football for the past 10 years, and our alunmi giving to athletics? this has nothing to do with bricks and sticks. you can say "build it and they will come," but will they pay and stay? i never said we could not compete. what i suggested was what we needed to do to compete. if you don't understand marketing 101, you might need a refresher course. whatever you learn you can apply to increasing the pathetic attendance at our mens bb games, unless of course, its a lot of bull.

Our athletic department is good at a lot of things, but marketing is absolutely not one of them. Basketball is even easier to market than football because your area to cover is 5-10 miles. The problem is outside of the restaurant program, you never see NT anything in Denton.

At one time Denton may have been apathetic or even biased against the school, and elements of that still exist. How big, though, will the city and surrounding area get before we stop laying the blame on the town and start placing it on sports marketing?

wardly · December 4, 2010

i read somewhere on mew mexico state fan board that they are hiring an outside marketing company to evaluate how to better promote their athletic program. of major concern is mens basketball, where attendance has dropped from high of 9,000 to present average of 6,000. perhaps this is something we should look at.

GrayEagle · December 4, 2010

i read somewhere on mew mexico state fan board that they are hiring an outside marketing company to evaluate how to better promote their athletic program. of major concern is mens basketball, where attendance has dropped from high of 9,000 to present average of 6,000. perhaps this is something we should look at.

Way to go, Wardley. Now there's something positive.

ColoradoEagle · December 4, 2010

We badly need something like that. I lived in Denton for four years (recently), and outside of a handful of restaurants, the very occasional poster, and the banners on Carroll, I never saw anything in town regarding NT. I'm not talking about going out and buying billboards or whatnot, just something to get the town involved. I don't expect Hoosiers level of town support, but the gap between that and where we are is about the size of the pacific ocean.

Obviously living in Lewisville now I see absolutely nothing. There isn't even NT gear carried at Sports Authority, Dick's, etc here. Only place I've seen anything is one of those t-shirts in a bag at Albertson's. :lol:

At this point, I would basically expect an outside marketing company to say "what marketing?".

Edited December 4, 2010 by ColoradoEagle

PlummMeanGreen · December 4, 2010

UNT Brings "The Fabulous Super Pit" to the MWC Table!

Read this latest new exciting link below, check out the slide show, gloat on the super review our BB venue received and............. enjoy!

http://www.stadiumjourney.com/stadiums/the-super-pit-s588/

Note: Link From Vito Blog On Front Page of GMG.com

GMG!

Edited December 6, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

wardly · December 6, 2010

i read somewhere on mew mexico state fan board that they are hiring an outside marketing company to evaluate how to better promote their athletic program. of major concern is mens basketball, where attendance has dropped from high of 9,000 to present average of 6,000. perhaps this is something we should look at.

i talked to lane rawlings yesterday at a social function about nmsu hiring an outside marketing firm to look at their athletic program from a marketing perspective. he seemed interested, said he is a strong beliver in using outside consultants, and left me with the feeling he would follow up on that concept. i don't know him well enough to know if he was just telling me what i wanted to hear or was really interested. at any rate,time will tell.

houstonmeangreen · December 6, 2010

I guess I am looking for one, I will forgo that marketing101 that you recommended. However, I can already manage these earthshaking proposals; NT needs to increase donations and attendance. Anything above that may be the 200 course level. The fact is basketball attendance though improving is far from were it should be and I have no solutions. Do you, please share. I can almost guarantee you that any sane and doable things you come up with have already been tried multiple times. Do give aways, short term and hasn't worked. More advertising, payout has proven small in the past. Better schedule, yes that would work but it is very difficult to achieve. Concurrent events, been big failures in the past. Win, that is the best answer and its works although much slower than you would think. An aside, as we should all know that basketball has very little to do with moving up in conferences. See TCU and Kansas for examples.

Football attendance has peaked, just maybe that has something to do with six straight mostly very bad years of football. It seems to me that the administration has done a lot to turn that around. There is a slight possibility that a new stadium and coaching staff may improve attendance. Yes, that is short term if NT doesn't start to win a lot more often. Back to winning, aren't we.

As much as I enjoy this debate, you win particularly as you redefine your past statements with each new post.

Football attendance has peaked, just maybe that has something to do with six straight mostly very bad years of football. It seems to me that the administration has done a lot to turn that around. There is a slight possibility that a new stadium and coaching staff may improve attendance

Really?.....football attendance is at a LOW for what it will be in the comming years....expect a consistant 25,000 to 30,000 crowd in the next 2-3 years with sold out SRO with major out of conf games....if we get in a more significant conference we could have have to expand sooner rather than later.

Stan R · December 6, 2010

Really?.....football attendance is at a LOW for what it will be in the comming years....expect a consistant 25,000 to 30,000 crowd in the next 2-3 years with sold out SRO with major out of conf games....if we get in a more significant conference we could have have to expand sooner rather than later.

I don't think you'd bet any of your hard earned money that the average attendance for the year would be over 25,000.

wardly · December 6, 2010

I don't think you'd bet any of your hard earned money that the average attendance for the year would be over 25,000.

75% of stadium is 22,500. to get to 25,000 you are looking at nearly 85%. thats in rain, sleet,and snow. i think we have 2 factors in play. !st, when will the "new" wear off our stadium. 2nd, how fast can coach mac turn program around.

GrayEagle · December 6, 2010

I don't think you'd bet any of your hard earned money that the average attendance for the year would be over 25,000.

Only because we don't even have one game to base it on. What HoustonMG is saying that if we can upgrade the conference. I agree in part but it depends on the conference. We'll have a tough time maintaining a 25K average in any conference other than CUSA or the Big 12. All of that is predecated on at least winning more than we lose. If McCarney and staff can tap into the student body then I'd wager a few hundred that we can reach that goal but we can't do it with colleges that our students have never heard of.

Edit: My bad. He said in the next 2-3 years and we'll still be in the Sun Belt most, if not all, of that period. We should average in the low 20s however.

Edited December 6, 2010 by GrayEagle

PlummMeanGreen · December 7, 2010

http://www.newstimes.com/default/article/UW-officials-see-benefits-in-TCU-s-departure-843316.php

Do MWC officials know we have more alums in the DFW metroplex than either University of Texas (Austin) or Texas A & M University? Doesn't that translate to more televisions in NT Exes homes which can translate into ratings?

Isn't it ratings is what the TV networks want rather than what a school did 75 years ago? What kind of coffee would that and a buck buy you in today's NCAA?

Will the MWC stay at 9 members or expand their footprint to 12 schools (and a larger TV coverage footprint) as to protect itself from any other defections while expanding their conference with the 5'th largest TV market, ie, the North Texas Metroplex and..............the one school that can deliver the best TV ratings because of UNT's "lights out," humongous (and still growing) constituency?

On behalf of Prez' Rawlins and AD Villarreal, should UNT turn Chuck Neinas loose on this re-alignment project, too, with him camping on the office doorsteps of MWC Commish' Craig Thompson?

GMG!

UNT versus SMU

(1) North Texas just brings far more to the table with a larger fan base,

(2) UNT with an enrollment that all but quadruples SMU's

(3) Approx. twice as many UNT students now living on/near campus than SMU and TCU's combined enrollments.

(4) With close to 100,000 NT Exes in the DFW Metroplex, we dwarf SMU's alumnus numbers

(5) Our football stadium and basketball facility combo vs. SMU's ? Let MWC officials visit both schools and decide for themselves--Anyone want to place some bets on who they'd pick as the school with the better facilities?

(6) Easy major airport access from either DFW Airport (25 minutes from Denton) or even Alliance Airport (15 minutes from Denton City Limits sign) !

(7) Big Mac "D" Attack On The Way At The New Mean Green Stadium with Chico the Man Wide Open Offense, Too!

GMG ! !

Bumping the original post and reason for this thread albeit we "ALL" tend to get off topic from time to time (and I suppose I'm toward the top of that list)? :sword:

RIP Dandy Don...

GMG!

Edited December 7, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

untjim1995 · December 7, 2010

As I said in another post, it will take the leadership of the MWC or CUSA to ignore all of the Texas politics that gets played with regard to conference affiliation and our own lack of support and lack of success over the last 30 years. It would take those conferences need for the view of the sleeping giant to be so great that they look past the other stuff. We have no meaningful connection with any of the MWC teams, even though we once shared a conference with Nevada and Boise State. UTEP has been in a conference with almost all of the current MWC schools at one time or another over the last 50 years. UH gives the MWC a bigger market with more tradition, support, and success in both money sports. Same goes for the SWC-lite version of CUSA West, but even harder because of SMU. I think we have to realize that the SBC is just going to be our home for at least the next 5 years and probably longer. Its not a lot of fun to realize because we all want to play other teams that people in the DFW Metroplex know and can talk about, but the reality is that we don't have that support from any other programs in those two conferences. If we did, we would already be in one of them now.

PlummMeanGreen · December 7, 2010

As I said in another post, it will take the leadership of the MWC or CUSA to ignore all of the Texas politics that gets played with regard to conference affiliation and our own lack of support and lack of success over the last 30 years. It would take those conferences need for the view of the sleeping giant to be so great that they look past the other stuff. We have no meaningful connection with any of the MWC teams, even though we once shared a conference with Nevada and Boise State. UTEP has been in a conference with almost all of the current MWC schools at one time or another over the last 50 years. UH gives the MWC a bigger market with more tradition, support, and success in both money sports. Same goes for the SWC-lite version of CUSA West, but even harder because of SMU. I think we have to realize that the SBC is just going to be our home for at least the next 5 years and probably longer. Its not a lot of fun to realize because we all want to play other teams that people in the DFW Metroplex know and can talk about, but the reality is that we don't have that support from any other programs in those two conferences. If we did, we would already be in one of them now.

Somewhat with what happened when CUSA accepted a losing SMU program into their league (with their having a new stadium for bargaining power, too) albeit most know they coat-tailed into that league with the others from the WAC they came in with as a group. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know--apples and oranges with the 2 schools, but at least UNT's apple tree did not have the rotten variety hanging down or worms crawling in and out of ours like, uh, SMU with all their past NCAA probations (plural), only school to ever receive the Death Penalty, etc, etc, etc, Seemedly, a school that doesn't really have to do much to get much. A school with a small student body who really doesn't care one way or the other, too? At some point, one might think another kind of school that does not have cheating in its almost 100 year past of intercollegiate football would be honored for its........honesty? Surely Leo Durocher wasn't right....right?

SMU? Smoke & Mirrors University?

One day they will be asked such questions from possible higher up conferences as to why did they not have more than 17,000 fans on a Fill Ford Day promotion with a bowl team and a $2 million a year head coach on its sidelines? NOTE: On a Friday night back in 1963, a Fry coached SMU football team hosted a Roger Staubach-led Navy team in a regular season Cotton Bowl game before less than 20,000 fans. (Navy was ranked #2 at that time of season, too, so some here want to talk history & politics with those kind of eye-opening negative scenarios from a school that seems to wield way too much influence when they should have to account for their own indiscrepancies)?

Lets not make getting into CUSA the end all for the University of North Texas. It is easy to see where SBC schools could win more against some CUSA schools in a given year but wait a minute.......I think that's already happened for a year or two already? :blink:

The Mountain West Conference would be a better setting for UNT than it would be for SMU. Only reason they might really want it is if they think we really wanted it--that's how their history of politics seems to work with us, right? :ninja:

Yes, we have our own challenges ahead at North Texas, but we also did not have almost 90 years of a Southwest Conference background to help build our school a foundation in which to build a solid fan base and then building on top of that base later on to advance our cause. What we do in Denton we do on our own w/o such percs as a big time conference in our background, but UNT will make it happen without all that anyway (and it will mean more to us all when we do make it happen).

MWC & UNT? We already have some tradition of playing schools in that league with ex conference mates Boise State and Nevada as it is and further back we have played most of its other members on more than one occassion, too, (and one of those in a bowl game early this decade) so there would be few if any "first time to ever play North Texas" write-ups on Game Day in most MWC outposts newspapers.

If the SBC can start getting its top teams in Top 25 polls, it will really lessen our need to move up the totem pole but all this is still about perception which most on this forum in the past have agreed is..........reality and that part of the equation no one can change when it comes to NCAA conferences and athletics, in general.

At some point, butts in seats in winning and losing years will play a part in the real future players of the upper echelon of NCAA football, and that is where the timing of UNT's new stadium comes in.

It's easy to see what having a better stadium, higher rated recruits and better known OOC schools coming into Denton will play a huge part in galvanizing the enormous UNT constiutency of which UNT Athletics has been methodically moving to have all its major varsity athletics facilities in place and then will truly be able to play its part in bringing to fruition the very galvanation of the Mean Green Nation. And for the good of all of us concerned...the twain shall soon meet.

GMG!

Edited December 7, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

houstonmeangreen · December 7, 2010

As I said in another post, it will take the leadership of the MWC or CUSA to ignore all of the Texas politics that gets played with regard to conference affiliation and our own lack of support and lack of success over the last 30 years. It would take those conferences need for the view of the sleeping giant to be so great that they look past the other stuff. We have no meaningful connection with any of the MWC teams, even though we once shared a conference with Nevada and Boise State. UTEP has been in a conference with almost all of the current MWC schools at one time or another over the last 50 years. UH gives the MWC a bigger market with more tradition, support, and success in both money sports. Same goes for the SWC-lite version of CUSA West, but even harder because of SMU. I think we have to realize that the SBC is just going to be our home for at least the next 5 years and probably longer. Its not a lot of fun to realize because we all want to play other teams that people in the DFW Metroplex know and can talk about, but the reality is that we don't have that support from any other programs in those two conferences. If we did, we would already be in one of them now.

I think we have to realize that the SBC is just going to be our home for at least the next 5 years and probably longer

I think this is totally wrong...if there is going to be conference realignment. and there will, it will come in the next 2-3 years...maybe even next year...we are alot more attractive now with the stadium and change in admin and coaching....I say we will be in a new conf within 3 years...but probably sooner than you think.

forevereagle · December 7, 2010

I think we have to realize that the SBC is just going to be our home for at least the next 5 years and probably longer
I think this is totally wrong...if there is going to be conference realignment. and there will, it will come in the next 2-3 years...maybe even next year...we are alot more attractive now with the stadium and change in admin and coaching....I say we will be in a new conf within 3 years...but probably sooner than you think.

I agree. I think that the next conference shake up will likely be in 2011. It is very possible that the Big East looks to get to 10 and will try to add a team if Villanova does not move up. They could also think about going to 12. I also think that the MWC will try to get to 12 in the near future to try and strengthen their AQ bid. Not sure that will be 2011, but there is still plenty of time to consider that. There is also a possibility that CUSA tries to get to 16 to ensure survival if the super conference idea ever gets serious higher up. There are lots of things that could happen in the near future that would impact our conference location. We do have a nice set of assets to bring to the table, and the sooner the football team wins, the more likely we are to get to take advantage of those assets.

Edited December 7, 2010 by forevereagle

houstonmeangreen · December 7, 2010

I don't think you'd bet any of your hard earned money that the average attendance for the year would be over 25,000.

If in the next 2-3 years with the new stadium and admin and coaching, if you can't avg approx 25,000 per game, I would say you are in real trouble.

GrayEagle · December 7, 2010

As I said in another post, it will take the leadership of the MWC or CUSA to ignore all of the Texas politics that gets played with regard to conference affiliation and our own lack of support and lack of success over the last 30 years. It would take those conferences need for the view of the sleeping giant to be so great that they look past the other stuff. We have no meaningful connection with any of the MWC teams, even though we once shared a conference with Nevada and Boise State. UTEP has been in a conference with almost all of the current MWC schools at one time or another over the last 50 years. UH gives the MWC a bigger market with more tradition, support, and success in both money sports. Same goes for the SWC-lite version of CUSA West, but even harder because of SMU. I think we have to realize that the SBC is just going to be our home for at least the next 5 years and probably longer. Its not a lot of fun to realize because we all want to play other teams that people in the DFW Metroplex know and can talk about, but the reality is that we don't have that support from any other programs in those two conferences. If we did, we would already be in one of them now.

I have suffered through this talk possibly longer than anyone who has posted on this board so I can understand how you feel that way. But, this is not my old University of North Texas (actually NTSTC).

The current and last two presidents have backed athletics more than any former president except Jitter Nolan. The students have stepped forward with their support, not just vocal but with their pocketbooks. Every facility, except basketball, didn't exist in their current form five years ago when we made the only attempt to advance our conference level. Former ADs didn't (or couldn't) show any initiative because their hands were tied by our administration. In other words our facilities were poor, our funds were poor, our attendance was poor, student support was poor and administrative support was even worse. That situation no longer exists. So you can't judge our current situation by what has happened in the past.

I feel better about this new coach hire than I have any since Hayden Fry. I firmly believe that Dan McCarney will energize the student body, the alumni and the people of Denton County more than any coach we've had. As Rick Villareal said, "he will be a friend-raiser and a fundraiser." And, unlike the most recent hires, he has proven himself because he has succeeded at this level in the past.

Assuming the MWC decides to go to twelve teams I think that we would stand a decent chance. We would be the largest university in the largest market. We have more living alumni than any other MWC member. We will have a shiny new stadium which will be comparable in size to four of the current and future members. We will have a major leap in revenue beginning next year (although several million of that will go toward paying for the new stadium). DFW International, less than 25 miles away, makes us the most accessible.

If we are invited I would hope that it would be with Houston. That would give the MWC their two largest markets and paired with Denver, Las Vegas and San Diego enough clout to gain a pretty decent TV contract. If both Houston and North Texas accepted that would help with travel costs as our division would also include New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State and Wyoming.

The MWC would have to use a little vision in this expansion. They would have to trust our new football staff and the improvements and advancements in other sports that we have recently made.

Assuming that they intend to stay west of the Mississippi what would be their alternatives? Utah State? Smaller school, smaller market, smaller attendance, smaller stadium, with comparable football. UTEP? Has us beat in attendance and is slightly better in football. They have a larger football stadium but are smaller in number of students and alumni. If Houston declines I would hope that the MWC can convince UTEP to join. Idaho? The smallest stadium and among the smallest in attendance in the FBS. Small student body and Moscow is almost inaccessible. San Jose State, while a large university in a populous area, they still don't have us beat in any category. New Mexico State? I like them but they don't have size, market, location or football going for them. Louisiana Tech? They're used to going west but they are smaller, with a much lower budget, and a much smaller, more inaccessible market area.

In five years who knows what the landscape will be? Why do we need to wait that long?

Edited December 7, 2010 by GrayEagle

untjim1995 · December 7, 2010

I have suffered through this talk possibly longer than anyone who has posted on this board so I can understand how you feel that way. But, this is not my old University of North Texas (actually NTSTC).

The current and last two presidents have backed athletics more than any former president except Jitter Nolan. The students have stepped forward with their support, not just vocal but with their pocketbooks. Every facility, except basketball, didn't exist in their current form five years ago when we made the only attempt to advance our conference level. Former ADs didn't (or couldn't) show any initiative because their hands were tied by our administration. In other words our facilities were poor, our funds were poor, our attendance was poor, student support was poor and administrative support was even worse. That situation no longer exists. So you can't judge our current situation by what has happened in the past.

I feel better about this new coach hire than I have any since Hayden Fry. I firmly believe that Dan McCarney will energize the student body, the alumni and the people of Denton County more than any coach we've had. As Rick Villareal said, "he will be a friend-raiser and a fundraiser." And, unlike the most recent hires, he has proven himself because he has succeeded at this level in the past.

Assuming the MWC decides to go to twelve teams I think that we would stand a decent chance. We would be the largest university in the largest market. We have more living alumni than any other MWC member. We will have a shiny new stadium which will be comparable in size to four of the current and future members. We will have a major leap in revenue beginning next year (although several million of that will go toward paying for the new stadium). DFW International, less than 25 miles away, makes us the most accessible.

If we are invited I would hope that it would be with Houston. That would give the MWC their two largest markets and paired with Denver, Las Vegas and San Diego enough clout to gain a pretty decent TV contract. If both Houston and North Texas accepted that would help with travel costs as our division would also include New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State and Wyoming.

The MWC would have to use a little vision in this expansion. They would have to trust our new football staff and the improvements and advancements in other sports that we have recently made.

Assuming that they intend to stay west of the Mississippi what would be their alternatives? Utah State? Smaller school, smaller market, smaller attendance, smaller stadium, with comparable football. UTEP? Has us beat in attendance and is slightly better in football. They have a larger football stadium but are smaller in number of students and alumni. If Houston declines I would hope that the MWC can convince UTEP to join. Idaho? The smallest stadium and among the smallest in attendance in the FBS. Small student body and Moscow is almost inaccessible. San Jose State, while a large university in a populous area, they still don't have us beat in any category. New Mexico State? I like them but they don't have size, market, location or football going for them. Louisiana Tech? They're used to going west but they are smaller, with a much lower budget, and a much smaller, more inaccessible market area.

In five years who knows what the landscape will be? Why do we need to wait that long?

I agree on a lot of your post, especially about the changes here at UNT over the last decade or so. But, again, the MWC is going to look at expansion in this way. Will it improve our TV contract, and can the current TV contract be dropped without taking a huge hit financially? Let's say the answer is yes and the MWC wants back in Texas only and not in Utah. That leaves Houston, Dallas/Ft. Worth, and El Paso as markets to go after. Well, ok, then UH is easily the crown jewel of the 4 schools that could fit here. I don't think anyone can argue this. So let's say they jump and go to the MWC. That leaves one spot left for grab in the MWC. You have three schools to go after. UTEP, SMU, and UNT. UTEP has a big market all to itself since its the only game in town. Plus, they have great basketball support and tradition that dwarfs UNT or SMU by a long shot. And, I wouldn't doubt that the City of El Paso could get the new MWC connected in some form or fashion to the Sun Bowl. But, for argument's sake, let's say UTEP says no, we like CUSA and we want to stay here because it is better for our alumni bases in Texas. It would be at this point that UNT would be in a win/win situation because if UTEP declined, it would either be us or SMU. Either way, we either go to the MWC or we go to CUSA West.

Of course, if Utah really is a growing state and the MWC feels it is important to stay there, then it could do one of two things: Ask Utah State to join as the 12th member just to get the Utah TVs or it could ask BYU to come back, which those schools would take back in a heartbeat. Of course, I doubt BYU will go back there again, in part, because I believe they will either soar as an independent or the Big XII will ask them to join them in a few years. But, in all of this, it will be a tough road to get into the MWC even if we are winning again in football in five years. You're right about not knowing the landscape, but it really is hard to see us in anything but the SBC unless the MWC or CUSA leadership see a true sleeping giant that would have more value than a UTEP or SMU. A new football coach won't do that alone, but a winning one with McCarney's charisma very well could.

I will say this about UNT Football and the next four years. We have to get this program on the right track or else I think our playing at what is known as the FBS level right now could very well be in jeopardy. I do believe that a seismic shift will occur on the college athletic landscape in the next decade and it will be a new separation of the Top 80 programs away from the rest, just like in the early 80s. There may not be anything we can do about since we are not currently AQ, but I do believe that there will be more non-AQs that will get "accepted" and I think we can get in that club. Its just gonna take major success, in both major revenue sports, with great support from attendance and the administration's funding to get us there. If not, then I think we will have some of the nicest FCS facilities in the country when those changes occur.

GreenMachine · December 8, 2010

I agree on a lot of your post, especially about the changes here at UNT over the last decade or so. But, again, the MWC is going to look at expansion in this way. Will it improve our TV contract, and can the current TV contract be dropped without taking a huge hit financially? Let's say the answer is yes and the MWC wants back in Texas only and not in Utah. That leaves Houston, Dallas/Ft. Worth, and El Paso as markets to go after. Well, ok, then UH is easily the crown jewel of the 4 schools that could fit here. I don't think anyone can argue this. So let's say they jump and go to the MWC. That leaves one spot left for grab in the MWC. You have three schools to go after. UTEP, SMU, and UNT. UTEP has a big market all to itself since its the only game in town. Plus, they have great basketball support and tradition that dwarfs UNT or SMU by a long shot. And, I wouldn't doubt that the City of El Paso could get the new MWC connected in some form or fashion to the Sun Bowl. But, for argument's sake, let's say UTEP says no, we like CUSA and we want to stay here because it is better for our alumni bases in Texas. It would be at this point that UNT would be in a win/win situation because if UTEP declined, it would either be us or SMU. Either way, we either go to the MWC or we go to CUSA West.

Of course, if Utah really is a growing state and the MWC feels it is important to stay there, then it could do one of two things: Ask Utah State to join as the 12th member just to get the Utah TVs or it could ask BYU to come back, which those schools would take back in a heartbeat. Of course, I doubt BYU will go back there again, in part, because I believe they will either soar as an independent or the Big XII will ask them to join them in a few years. But, in all of this, it will be a tough road to get into the MWC even if we are winning again in football in five years. You're right about not knowing the landscape, but it really is hard to see us in anything but the SBC unless the MWC or CUSA leadership see a true sleeping giant that would have more value than a UTEP or SMU. A new football coach won't do that alone, but a winning one with McCarney's charisma very well could.

I will say this about UNT Football and the next four years. We have to get this program on the right track or else I think our playing at what is known as the FBS level right now could very well be in jeopardy. I do believe that a seismic shift will occur on the college athletic landscape in the next decade and it will be a new separation of the Top 80 programs away from the rest, just like in the early 80s. There may not be anything we can do about since we are not currently AQ, but I do believe that there will be more non-AQs that will get "accepted" and I think we can get in that club. Its just gonna take major success, in both major revenue sports, with great support from attendance and the administration's funding to get us there. If not, then I think we will have some of the nicest FCS facilities in the country when those changes occur.

I'm certainly not making light of this but I wonder how much ,or if any, the border drug wars would play in the decision to invite UTEP? Didn't some students cross the border recently and get murdered in some dive town? Also, didn't some buildings on campus get hit by gunfire from across the border? I doubt that situation will improve drastically anytime soon, might make Denton a better choice.

OldTimer · December 8, 2010

I'm certainly not making light of this but I wonder how much ,or if any, the border drug wars would play in the decision to invite UTEP? Didn't some students cross the border recently and get murdered in some dive town? Also, didn't some buildings on campus get hit by gunfire from across the border? I doubt that situation will improve drastically anytime soon, might make Denton a better choice.

My wife and I can verify this. We went to New Mexico birding and avoided going through El Paso on I 10 by going higher up..on another highway.

PlummMeanGreen · December 8, 2010

This should be a big part of the selling point...

The fact that the AD is willing to admit the deficiencies that UNT athletics have and are already planing to correct them put them a leg up on a lot of other smaller schools....

The faster UNT gets to having the entire Mean Green Village complex completed the better a target UNT becomes. I have to admit the closer the stadium gets to being completed the more random UNT chatter I hear from the various commuters about UNT. That will translate to even more name recognition as the areas surrounding the Mean Green Village get filled and the planned media/advertising coverage starts in the late summer....

Bump...

Addendum:

:sword: How many of you can command red numbers with even a mere "bump"? :lol:

GMG!

Edited December 9, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

Eagle1855 · December 8, 2010

If I'm the MWC, I take UH and UNT, grab two of the largest TV markets in the nation (with two of the better mid-major basketball programs). You then gamble on UNT getting back to winning in Football and being committed to continuing to to do so based on the investments made in facilities and the coaching staff in place.

PlummMeanGreen · December 13, 2010

If I'm the MWC, I take UH and UNT, grab two of the largest TV markets in the nation (with two of the better mid-major basketball programs). You then gamble on UNT getting back to winning in Football and being committed to continuing to to do so based on the investments made in facilities and the coaching staff in place.

:thumbsu: Sounds good to me, Eagle1855!

O How We Have Grown Since the Early 80's...

UNT Enrollment

1982....Approx. 22,000 +/-

2010....36,000

City of Denton Population

1982 pop.....approx. 50,000

2010....Approx 110,000

Denton County Population

1982 pop.....Approx. 145,000

2010 pop.....Approx. 650,000

UNT Alums in the North Texas Metroplex

1982.......????????????

2010.......Approx. 100,000

Edited December 13, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

KoldBeer · December 13, 2010

I've read as much as I can on this the past week. I think the Mountain West is trying to decide between expanding into Texas or taking WAC scraps. My guess is that they will look to Texas first.

Right now, I'm not sure Houston or SMU would leave CUSA. Some of that might depend on what happens in Big East. If Big East takes UCF, then they might be more likely to jump. UTEP might be a little more on the fence. They are in Mountain time zone and El Paso is a long ways away from Houston and Dallas. If Houston or SMU don't go to MWC, I think UTEP is 50/50 to stay in MWC.

If MWC can get one of CUSA Texas schools, then North Texas might be able to convince the MWC to add UNT since it would help the MWC to have two Texas markets. UNT will have to sell the MWC on potential. If this was three years from now, we might be able to show some results (conference championships in football and increased attendance). If UTEP is added (and SMU & Houston say no) then it's probably between Utah St, San Jose St, and North Texas for last spot.

If none of the Texas CUSA schools are picked, then I think it is wide open what the MWC does. I'm not sure they would want North Texas because we'd be on an island from the rest of the conference (I know TCU was the same way but I'm not sure they want to go that way again). But the other options aren't very attractive either. Utah St is 3rd school in a small state. Rest of WAC isn't anything great (or they'd already be in MWC).

I don't have much of a feel for CUSA. I guess it'll probably depend on who and how many ditch the conference.

shaft · December 15, 2010

The only credible report out there says the MWC is going to wait a year and then if it decides to expand to look at Utah State and UTEP, both schools inside its footprint.

If anyone has a link from a real newspaper that says otherwise, I'd double dog dare them to post it.