Article On Canales And The Coaching Search

Mean Green 93-98 · November 22, 2010

has some info I had not directly heard before.

eulessismore · November 22, 2010

Well, Kragthorpe did great at Tulsa, stunk at Louisville, but who knows what was up there? And McCarney had some success, but took a long time to get there; didn't he have an overall losing record?

eulessismore · November 22, 2010

Uh, ok, just looked up the records for Kragthorpe and McCarney; not too impressed. Maybe these are out there to get us to like the real candidates better.

Edited November 22, 2010 by eulessismore

VideoEagle · November 22, 2010

So Kragthorpe, McCarney, and Matthews plus an unknown minority candidate. NIce pool to start from, but I hope there are a few more.

SleepingGiantsFan · November 22, 2010

So Kragthorpe, McCarney, and Matthews plus an unknown minority candidate. NIce pool to start from, but I hope there are a few more.

In order not to get into hot water with the BCA, it's almost essential to have a finalist who is a member of a minority group.

My comments about the article:

1. If Neinas is in fact now both a headhunter and a coaches agent, if that's not unethical, it's pretty close to it. (Sorry, Chuck, if you're reading along but I'll bet everybody on this board would feel that way.)

2. If UNT actually does have half a mil to 650 G's to pay for a coach, that's a very good thing.

3. Kragthorpe and McCarney need to get back into the head coaching ranks soon or they will never get another chance. So based on the money you supposedly have, my guess is both are within reach.

4. I've heard rumors that Bobby Petrino won big at Louisville to a certain extent that he brought in a bunch of bad character guys and that Kragthorpe was told to rid the program of such players. So that would partially explain his problems there. Still, as was discussed by several pundits, during Krgathorpe's final season it appeared as though the team had quit on him.

5. McCarney may have taken a while to get it in gear at Iowa State, but along with Baylor, that's the worst job in the Big 12. Maybe worse than Baylor in the sense that at least Waco is fairly close to a lot of DIA football talent. I've been to Ames and although it's a nice enough little town, it isn't close to anything. So I suspect if you guys hire McCarney, you're going to have some really pissed fans. However, I think that if he hired some assistants who have recruiting contacts in Texas, you could have yourself a good coach. Also, it seems to me that as long as McCarney coached at Iowa, even though they're in the Big 12 North, he may have some in-state contacts of his own.

Edit: BTW, I checked and McCarney had losing seasons his first five years at ISU. However, the Cyclones then went to bowl games five out of the next seven years. That says to me that once he got his own players in there, he did an impressive job.

Edited November 22, 2010 by SleepingGiantsFan

GoMeanGreen1999 · November 22, 2010

Neither one of these guys do much for me. Kraigthorpe did so little at Louisville - not sure I believe the Petrino thing - at least he isn't doing that at Arkansas.

SilverEagle · November 22, 2010

Ok, will someone tell how it would not be a conflict of interest if the new coach that gets hired is represented by Neinas?

Do business ethics somehow not apply to the hiring of football coaches? Well, I guess Bernie Madoff business ethics might apply in this case.

I don't kow much about McCarney, but I do remember that before we hired either Simon or Dickey (I can't remember which one) Kraigthorpe was the OC at A&M. When someone asked him if he would be interested in the NT job, I seem to recall that his response was.......dismissive. So as far as I'm concerned Kraigthorpe can just kiss my.....

I can't believe that Canales is being so easily dismissed all of a sudden. It sounds to me like he would have a better chance if he had been out of work for a year instead of coming here......and actually working as a coach.

I will say this over and over. Coach Canales is exactly the type of personality that would do best as the head football coach at North Texas.

Edited November 22, 2010 by SilverEagle

eulessismore · November 22, 2010

Ok, will someone tell how it would not be a conflict of interest if the new coach that gets hired is represented by Neinas?
Do business ethics somehow not apply to the hiring of football coaches?

I don't kow much about McCarney, but I do remember that before we hired either Simon or Dickey (I can't remember which one) Kraigthorpe was the OC at A&M. When someone asked him if he would be interested in the NT job, I seem to recall that his response was.......dismissive. So as far as I'm concerned Kraigthorpe can just kiss my.....

I can't believe that Canales is being so easily dismissed all of a sudden. It sounds to me like he would have a better chance if he had been out of work for a year instead of coming here......and actually working as a coach.

I will say this over and over. Coach Canales is exactly the type of personality that would do best as the head football coach at North Texas.

I still believe as you do. Unfortunately, our defense is so bad that nobody wants to watch what's going on long enough to pick out the good things. There's only three things that will make any new or returning hfc look good at North Texas; defensive tackles, cornerbacks, and coaches to get them ready to play.

SilverEagle · November 22, 2010

I still believe as you do. Unfortunately, our defense is so bad that nobody wants to watch what's going on long enough to pick out the good things. There's only three things that will make any new or returning hfc look good at North Texas; defensive tackles, cornerbacks, and coaches to get them ready to play.

...and Coach Canales pointed out this need about two weeks ago.

ColoradoEagle · November 22, 2010

I will say this over and over. Coach Canales is exactly the type of personality that would do best as the head football coach at North Texas.

I keep seeing this stated over and over. Without judgement, I'm just wondering why people think this? He seems like a great guy and willing to engage the community, but that was Dodge too. What has everyone seen out of Canales these past few weeks that I'm missing?

I'm not saying he shouldn't get the job. He may very well be qualified. I just haven't seen anything that screams, "That's our guy!"

eulessismore · November 22, 2010

I keep seeing this stated over and over. Without judgement, I'm just wondering why people think this? He seems like a great guy and willing to engage the community, but that was Dodge too. What has everyone seen out of Canales these past few weeks that I'm missing?

I'm not saying he shouldn't get the job. He may very well be qualified. I just haven't seen anything that screams, "That's our guy!"

I really haven't heard any other name that says that to me either. I'm starting to be more accepting of Matthews, maybe because he beat Virginia Tech this year. Has he recruited Texas in recent years?

Edited November 22, 2010 by eulessismore

SilverEagle · November 22, 2010

I keep seeing this stated over and over. Without judgement, I'm just wondering why people think this? He seems like a great guy and willing to engage the community, but that was Dodge too. What has everyone seen out of Canales these past few weeks that I'm missing?

I'm not saying he shouldn't get the job. He may very well be qualified. I just haven't seen anything that screams, "That's our guy!"

.....not like this guy. I've seen the team respond very positively to him, and (you'll have to trust me on this one) I know an excellent Fry-like motivator when I see (and hear) one.

MeanMag · November 22, 2010

Ok, will someone tell how it would not be a conflict of interest if the new coach that gets hired is represented by Neinas?
Do business ethics somehow not apply to the hiring of football coaches? Well, I guess Bernie Madoff business ethics might apply in this case.

It might seem that there is some opportunity for Neinas to be "unethical", but when you've built your reputation on being a matchmaker, I'm sure Neinas takes his job very seriously.

College football isn't the only sport that has a Neinas type.

jimbob · November 22, 2010

.....not like this guy. I've seen the team respond very positively to him, and (you'll have to trust me on this one) I know an excellent Fry-like motivator when I see (and hear) one.

I guess you just have to wonder whether any of the big name HCs we hear about could've taken a broken team like the one we had 4 weeks ago and turn them around in such a short time. That was done by a professional college coach that knows how to connect with the kids/men. Make no mistake about it, this program was on a downward spiral that was about to lose a good portion of the players with 2 or more years left to play and Canales brought them back in a week. I'd love to see what he can do in an off-season!

stebo · November 22, 2010

I guess you just have to wonder whether any of the big name HCs we hear about could've taken a broken team like the one we had 4 weeks ago and turn them around in such a short time. That was done by a professional college coach that knows how to connect with the kids/men. Make no mistake about it, this program was on a downward spiral that was about to lose a good portion of the players with 2 or more years left to play and Canales brought them back in a week. I'd love to see what he can do in an off-season!

Amen. Amen to Silver as well. Mickey Mathews does nothing for me. I think he is 1 game about .500 this year. Yes, he beat Va Tech but his team is having trouble beating half of the rest of the schedule. ULM beat Alabama a couple of years ago during a 5 win season, should we go after Weatherbie? That is sarcasm - that name just does nothing for me. The way that I look at it is this... FIrst off, it's not our choice. It is Lane's choice at the recommendation of Neinas and RV. My guess is that they will want a "name" coach simply to make a splash and sell seats for the new stadium. So then you look at the 'name' coaches available: Fran, Kragthorpe, Leach, Leavitt, maybe a random Bowden. Kragthorpe turned us down a years ago to stay on as an assistant at A&M. But our facilities were terrible and we really were one of the worst jobs in the country back then. Leach's name would be the biggest - but doesn't seem to get kicked around at all in the papers. Leach would sell some club seats and suites. Leavitt, seems to be the 3rd biggest name of the group. Sounds like he was fired for a bunch of BS just to get out of paying him. Imagine if we had an "out" with Dickey his last couple of years... we would have JUMPED at it. That is what USF did, they wanted a championship and Leavitt never brought them one (in CUSA or the Big East). The closest they ever got was tied for 3rd. Hmmmmm, not very exciting to me. I am not interested in a random Bowden. That name is not relevant in North Texas. That leaves Fran and Chico. My instincts say that Neinas would push Fran (he got him the job at A&M) but I think it could be Chico if they ignore Neinas. We need someone to sell those seats and I believe that Chico would literally knock on doors until they were sold. Fran might get us some sales on his name alone. We really can't lose either way - but Chico's sales would actually show up to games whereas the Fran sales might just buy and show up if he is winning. Two completely different demographics. Chico would win over the working class fans and Fran would appease those fringe NT fans that want to see us "make a statement"... really, they can both win here. I think that the results would be very similar.

One thing to think about. With Chico, we would have enough money left over to really pay a solid staff of assistant coaches. With Fran, we would probably have very little money left to pay for the assistants. I cannot imagine our total coaching budget as being over $1 million a year (if not lower) and if we are paying the head coach half (or more) of that, the assistants are going to be underpaid. Just my $02. But if we were to get a shot at Leach - that would be my first choice despite the salary stuff - I believe he would sell enough seats to justify it. My picks (in order from first to last choice):

Leach

Chico

Fran

Leavitt

Kragthorpe

Carthel (love ya SUMG!)

random Bowden

Mathews

Edited November 22, 2010 by stebo

NorthTexan95 · November 22, 2010

stebo - I really hope we have more than $1 million to pay the coaching staff. We desperately need to if we want to be serious about competing.

Green Dozer · November 22, 2010

I keep seeing this stated over and over. Without judgement, I'm just wondering why people think this? He seems like a great guy and willing to engage the community, but that was Dodge too. What has everyone seen out of Canales these past few weeks that I'm missing?

I'm not saying he shouldn't get the job. He may very well be qualified. I just haven't seen anything that screams, "That's our guy!"

Dodge is a very nice guy. But as for as engaging the community? No, not like Canales works a room nor did Dodge attend chamber functions, elementary school awards,etc. I talked to a couple of teachers from Savannah Elementary here in Denton, and they both raved about Canales and a couple of players coming to their school for an awards ceremony last Friday. They said even though it was a travel morning for the team, Canales stayed to last possible minute visiting with the kids and teachers, well past the time required.. Dodge and Dickey attended things, and both were courteous (at least Dickey was to me). And yes, they would talk if you spoke to them, and ended holding court in a corner so to speak. When Silver and a few others talk about engaging the community, they are talking about this and attending things in Krum, Sanger, Decatur to drum up support. Dodge did his thing and headed back to Southlake.

VideoEagle · November 22, 2010

Dodge is a very nice guy. But as for as engaging the community? No, not like Canales works a room nor did Dodge attend chamber functions, elementary school awards,etc. I talked to a couple of teachers from Savannah Elementary here in Denton, and they both raved about Canales and a couple of players coming to their school for an awards ceremony last Friday. They said even though it was a travel morning for the team, Canales stayed to last possible minute visiting with the kids and teachers, well past the time required.. Dodge and Dickey attended things, and both were courteous (at least Dickey was to me). And yes, they would talk if you spoke to them, and ended holding court in a corner so to speak. When Silver and a few others talk about engaging the community, they are talking about this and attending things in Krum, Sanger, Decatur to drum up support. Dodge did his thing and headed back to Southlake.

YES! This is what we must have in our next coach. RV has already said so. And going to Krum, Sanger and Argyle is going to start gain new season ticket holders. If you treat these guys with some respect by going to there place a number of them will try season tickets. Even at the new stadium, I can't imagine out tickets being outrageous.

UNT90 · November 22, 2010

YES! This is what we must have in our next coach. RV has already said so. And going to Krum, Sanger and Argyle is going to start gain new season ticket holders. If you treat these guys with some respect by going to there place a number of them will try season tickets. Even at the new stadium, I can't imagine out tickets being outrageous.

You know what sells season tickets?

Winning.

People in Argyle and Sanger will surely think a visit from the local college coach is nice, but if you think that will make them plop down hard earned money for season tickets, you are just a little off the mark.

There are 97k grads with 60 miles of campus. Win, and you will get their attention.

oldguystudent · November 22, 2010

There are 97k grads with 60 miles of campus. Win, and you will get their attention.

This. But be careful. They might dilute the pool of influence.

SilverEagle · November 22, 2010

You know what sells season tickets?

Winning.

People in Argyle and Sanger will surely think a visit from the local college coach is nice, but if you think that will make them plop down hard earned money for season tickets, you are just a little off the mark.

There are 97k grads with 60 miles of campus. Win, and you will get their attention.

You mean like how those four straight bowls trips got their attention? For North Texas alumni/students and community fans (few as there are) it takes more than just wins. It takes getting out into the community and telling those people that you REALLY want to be their college team. THAT creates buzz just as much as wins.

VideoEagle · November 22, 2010

You mean like how those four straight bowls trips got their attention? For North Texas alumni/students and community fans (few as there are) it takes more than just wins. It takes getting out into the community and telling those people that you REALLY want to be their college team. THAT creates buzz just as much as wins.

As has been demonstrated in the past, winning alone will NOT increase attendance.

In fact, the last four years has shown community outreach through making games more fun to attend will increase attendance to a LOSING team.

Again, there is a different culture in Denton County and at NT. Those horse trainers and breeders and farmers want you to show you are interested in them before they will become interested in us.

wardly · November 22, 2010

Amen. Amen to Silver as well. Mickey Mathews does nothing for me. I think he is 1 game about .500 this year. Yes, he beat Va Tech but his team is having trouble beating half of the rest of the schedule. ULM beat Alabama a couple of years ago during a 5 win season, should we go after Weatherbie? That is sarcasm - that name just does nothing for me. The way that I look at it is this... FIrst off, it's not our choice. It is Lane's choice at the recommendation of Neinas and RV. My guess is that they will want a "name" coach simply to make a splash and sell seats for the new stadium. So then you look at the 'name' coaches available: Fran, Kragthorpe, Leach, Leavitt, maybe a random Bowden. Kragthorpe turned us down a years ago to stay on as an assistant at A&M. But our facilities were terrible and we really were one of the worst jobs in the country back then. Leach's name would be the biggest - but doesn't seem to get kicked around at all in the papers. Leach would sell some club seats and suites. Leavitt, seems to be the 3rd biggest name of the group. Sounds like he was fired for a bunch of BS just to get out of paying him. Imagine if we had an "out" with Dickey his last couple of years... we would have JUMPED at it. That is what USF did, they wanted a championship and Leavitt never brought them one (in CUSA or the Big East). The closest they ever got was tied for 3rd. Hmmmmm, not very exciting to me. I am not interested in a random Bowden. That name is not relevant in North Texas. That leaves Fran and Chico. My instincts say that Neinas would push Fran (he got him the job at A&M) but I think it could be Chico if they ignore Neinas. We need someone to sell those seats and I believe that Chico would literally knock on doors until they were sold. Fran might get us some sales on his name alone. We really can't lose either way - but Chico's sales would actually show up to games whereas the Fran sales might just buy and show up if he is winning. Two completely different demographics. Chico would win over the working class fans and Fran would appease those fringe NT fans that want to see us "make a statement"... really, they can both win here. I think that the results would be very similar.

One thing to think about. With Chico, we would have enough money left over to really pay a solid staff of assistant coaches. With Fran, we would probably have very little money left to pay for the assistants. I cannot imagine our total coaching budget as being over $1 million a year (if not lower) and if we are paying the head coach half (or more) of that, the assistants are going to be underpaid. Just my $02. But if we were to get a shot at Leach - that would be my first choice despite the salary stuff - I believe he would sell enough seats to justify it. My picks (in order from first to last choice):

Leach
Chico
Fran
Leavitt
Kragthorpe
Carthel (love ya SUMG!)
random Bowden
Mathews

what about the coach at sfa? [i don't think #'s 1,2 or 4 are in the mix, but just an uneduated guess]

NM Green · November 22, 2010

I must say that i am bummed that we lost in LA on Saturday, mostly because I find myself cheering for Canales to get a fair shot at this gig. I want someone who wants UNT - playing and simple. Canales has won me over in a short period of time becuase i see what our program has always lacked - a big dose of Mean Green pride. Canales will never let us think we shouldn't be competing with the Tech's and Aggies of the world or playing second fiddle to TCU and SMU.

I want that spirit and fire from our next coach and i can only imagine what Canales could do surrounded by his own people and recruits. Having Canales show up in my living room to encourage me to entrust my kid to him for a few years would be mesmorizing. You can just tell Canales teaches life skills and principles that help young men become stronger. Heck look at what he has done with our squad with some focused practices and encouragement.

I use to be a monster Fran guy and love that Leach put Tech on the map, but if I were sitting down listening to the 3 talk about the future of my program I am confident who would put forth the most passion for my University.

Canales will be an amazing head coach and I can only hope he gets a fair shot to be mine.

GMG

houstonmeangreen · November 22, 2010

You mean like how those four straight bowls trips got their attention? For North Texas alumni/students and community fans (few as there are) it takes more than just wins. It takes getting out into the community and telling those people that you REALLY want to be their college team. THAT creates buzz just as much as wins.

maybe winning and playing the right teams...baylor, smu, tech, tcu etc...schools student and community know about, have friends at or have some relationship to the school....anyway, many things need to be done to increase ticket sales...the new stadium will help alot.