Mwc May Add Another Member

VideoEagle · November 22, 2010

Currently CUSA has a better TV Deal.
I cant imagine the SMU suits wanting to part from the "Magnolia League" of Tulsa, Tulane y Rice.
Without TCU, Utah or BYU the new MWC is still just another mid major w/o any chance of getting an auto bid. SMU already has that in CUSA and much easier travel.

Maybe Houston...UTEP for sure, but man, I just dont see the Ponies wanting to go West.

Everyone keeps writing UTEP as a certainty in wanting to go to the Mountain West. Yet, the UTEP administration keeps pointing out it's alumni base is located in El Paso, then Dallas-Ft Worth, Houston and San Antonio. They say they are getting a big boost from alumni enjoying being able to see the team more often than when they played in the WAC against want is now the MWC.

As for Houston, if TCU, BYU and Utah are all gone, what is left will generate less TV money and less eyeballs when they are on TV because of the terrible TV contract the MWC has. Still, the average team is a bit more committed to quality athletics than CUSA teams.

PlummMeanGreen · November 22, 2010

And yet we cite him as the standard to live up to in the present day again and again and again and again and again. Jeez. Build a statue of the guy in front of the new stadium and let him go!

As for all this conference talk, this board sometimes sounds like a bunch of welfare moms waiting for the government to extend their benefits to include free Cadillacs. Will the dominoes fall this way? Will SMU going to conference X compel conference Y to give us a break? Why, oh why doesn't conference Z see that we belong?

The answer to all of those questions lies in a sub .250 record for the past many years. Tell ya' what. Let UNT take care of its own business in its own house and all that conference stuff will eventually work itself out. To very loosely paraphrase a Lil Wayne lyric, "Win games, get recognition." If UNT can't beat anybody outside the conference*, then they've got nothing to offer when jumping up and down wanting to play with the big boys like some kid trying to get in on his big brother's pool hustle.

*Going back to the 2004 season, there have been 2 OOC wins -- Ball St and SMU. I looked at 2003, but I can't tell which games were conference games and which weren't, although the Baylor win is impressive.

Not only some of us who were around but the DFW media in general still stirs it up with Fry. I recall one write-up in one of the 2 major DFW newspapers when Dodge was hired said something like "In UNT's quest to find their next Hayden Fry" and things similar to that.

And maybe some still talk about Fry because he happens to be the last UNT coach to win more games than he lost when he left Denton. He also had a M.O. not seen around Denton almost since the day he left as in "aim high?"

Most ambitious and upwardy mobile NCAA FBS schools fans/alums still amazingly use how they rank nationally and with their coaches how they are doing in the wins over losses department as their barometer. Which UNT Coach even up through today still has more wins than losses? I rest my case.

Do forgive us all for still using a winning UNT coach as our barometer and how we actually think UNT can get Fry-like lightning back in the bottle. With a new stadium, we are running out of excuses as to why we shouldn't.

GMG!

Edited November 22, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

stangbang · November 23, 2010

UNT is probably the MWC's 10th choice of schools to join. UNT brings absolutely nothing to the MWC. There is absolutely no reason the MWC would want UNT.

Rudy · November 23, 2010

UNT is probably the MWC's 10th choice of schools to join. UNT brings absolutely nothing to the MWC. There is absolutely no reason the MWC would want UNT.

So how high does SMU rank?

stangbang · November 23, 2010

So how high does SMU rank?

Much higher then UNT. SMU, Houston, and UTEP are easily there top 3 choices in no particular order. Tell me one reason why they would want UNT over SMU.

Rudy · November 23, 2010

Much higher then UNT. SMU, Houston, and UTEP are easily there top 3 choices in no particular order. Tell me one reason why they would want UNT over SMU.

Really? you think SMU is in the top 3? Houston I can understand, but SMU? LOL. I know there have been some drug problems on the hilltop, pease, get help somewhere.

stangbang · November 23, 2010

UNT's best hope for moving to a better conference is for SMU to move to the MWC because as long as SMU is in Conference USA, right or wrong, they will do whatever they can to block UNT's entrance.

Rudy · November 23, 2010

UNT's best hope for moving to a better conference is for SMU to move to the MWC because as long as SMU is in Conference USA, right or wrong, they will do whatever they can to block UNT's entrance.

LOL, not sure why you feel the need to come onto another schools message board and try to assert your "superiority" but you do realize that many people with your problem like to buy big expensive cars. You can try that or did you max out daddy's credit card?

stangbang · November 23, 2010

Really? you think SMU is in the top 3? Houston I can understand, but SMU? LOL. I know there have been some drug problems on the hilltop, pease, get help somewhere.

This is a joke right?

The football team is up and coming. SMU is going to a bowl for the second straight season. Keep in mind this is mainly without Junes recruits as they are still sophomores. They pretty much have a spot in the Conference championship locked up this year. SMU blew out Nevada 45-10 one of the best teams in the future MWC, in the Hawaii bowl last year. They have a great coach, great academics, and they are located in a great city. They have an administration that is committed to putting a quality product on the football field. They have the money to pump into the program and are willing to spend it. I am not saying that Houston isn't their top choice but SMU is in the discussion.

ColoradoEagle · November 23, 2010

SMU may be on the verge of their third winning season in football in the past 22 years. Moody is almost as awful as the basketball team, and Dallas residents couldn't care less as shown by the attendance in both sports outside of games with TCU.

Even if TCU left, they would still be at 10 football playing members if Hawaii came on. The two spots (if they expand to 12) would go to Houston, UTEP, and/or some school not named SMU.

Edited November 23, 2010 by ColoradoEagle

stangbang · November 23, 2010

LOL, not sure why you feel the need to come onto another schools message board and try to assert your "superiority" but you do realize that many people with your problem like to buy big expensive cars. You can try that or did you max out daddy's credit card?

I just cast my opinion on the likelihood of UNT's possible invitation to the MWC which is what this topic is about. It is a well known fact that SMU alums and SMU administration thinks that they are better then UNT and would do everything in their power to block UNT's entrance to CUSA. This is not me trying to assert my "superiority" this is a fact. I do not agree with this but this is the truth. I think that both schools would benefit from being in the same conference. This game would be as close to a sellout as either team can get without bringing in a big time team. Lets be honest if UNT cannot get into CUSA after 4 straight bowl games when CUSA is looking everywhere it can for members then there is no way they are getting an invite in their current state. The truth is I went to UNT for a year transfered to SMU paid my own way with help from scholarships and financial aid.

Edited November 23, 2010 by stangbang

stangbang · November 23, 2010

The MWC expansion has nothing to do with basketball for one. If you want to look at other sports SMU consistently wins the ALL-Sports rankings for CUSA despite the terrible basketball. I really have no defense for how terrible the basketball team is. This is about money and football. The MWC is trying to get to AQ status. If TCU leaves the MWC will be at 10 teams meaning 2 teams will be invited. If TCU Stays the MWC takes Houston. If TCU leaves the MWC takes Houston and SMU. They want a foothold in DFW so SMU is the logical choice if TCU leaves. It may be the third winning season in 22 years but the SMU program has a storied history. There is no denying the program is on the rise. They have a proven coach, who has taken a team from the worst in the NCAA, to a BCS game. SMU outdraws UNT so not really sure why you are bashing on SMU's attendance.

Edited November 23, 2010 by stangbang

ColoradoEagle · November 23, 2010

SMU does nothing to help the MWC get a BCS auto-bid. I don't know what planet you're living on to think that. SMU doesn't provide a foothold into crap, whether it's the BCS or DFW, sorry. And SMU's storied history is that everyone in the country still thinks of it as the school that got the death penalty.

Regarding football attendance, it's a sad fact that only a couple thousand more people will drive five miles to see you guys clinch bowl eligibility than will drive 30 miles to see a team that had won seven games in the previous 3.5 seasons at that point. Almost 2,500,000 people in Dallas County and only 17k come to watch winning football with a $2m coach. In basketball, it's not even a comparison.

Edited November 23, 2010 by ColoradoEagle

stangbang · November 23, 2010

SMU does nothing to help the MWC get a BCS auto-bid. I don't know what planet you're living on to think that. SMU doesn't provide a foothold into crap, whether it's the BCS or DFW, sorry. And SMU's storied history is that everyone in the country still thinks of it as the school that got the death penalty.

Regarding football attendance, it's a sad fact that only a couple thousand more people will drive five miles to see you guys clinch bowl eligibility than will drive 30 miles to see a team that had won seven games in the previous 3.5 seasons at that point. Almost 2,500,000 people in Dallas County and only 17k come to watch winning football with a $2m coach. In basketball, it's not even a comparison.

stangbang · November 23, 2010

I am not claiming that SMU will deliver the Dallas market. But it will provide them with a game in the Dfw area where there are more D1 recruits then anywhere in the nation. It is sad that more people do not show up but winning will create attendance. It does not happen overnight. UNT as well as anybody should know this. We are only two seasons removed from back to back 1-11 seasons, however if you are familiar with the current state of SMU football you know that those days are long behind us. Those who are not familiar will soon realize this as well. Jones has set the foundation for great things to come. If the MWC wants to look to the future they take SMU if not they take someone else. What helps the MWC get AQ status is making it the best football conference it can be. SMU and Houston are both currently better then half the MWC and will be better then 3/4 of it in the near future

Edited November 23, 2010 by stangbang

PlummMeanGreen · November 23, 2010

This is a joke right?

The football team is up and coming. SMU is going to a bowl for the second straight season. Keep in mind this is mainly without Junes recruits as they are still sophomores. They pretty much have a spot in the Conference championship locked up this year. SMU blew out Nevada 45-10 one of the best teams in the future MWC, in the Hawaii bowl last year. They have a great coach, great academics, and they are located in a great city. They have an administration that is committed to putting a quality product on the football field. They have the money to pump into the program and are willing to spend it. I am not saying that Houston isn't their top choice but SMU is in the discussion.

Tit-Tat! ............please forgive me, GrayEagle, he just hit some hot spots with some of his comments. :innocent:

Yet only 17,000 for Fill Ford Day last week with a winning and bowl-bound team? Hint: Your coach will soon want to play before much larger audiences who appreciate winning and he will get that opportunity sooner than later.

stangbang, does SMU ever grow tired of coat-tailing into any of these conference re-alignment scenarios, but still fitting in like a round peg in a square hole ? You bring a 1939 NC to the table, but the Year 1939 is closer in time to Commanche Indian raids out here at Parker County ranches than present day so yall still want to hang onto that as part of your marketing arsenal as to impress a bunch of public university-oriented conferences to get in bed with those kinds of "OMG" state-assisted schools of which SMU's long-standing attitude has been a bit condescending in the past?

AND.........just how soon will it be when courting conferences thinking about SMU look at Ford on Game Day and see a bunch of Neiman's finest mannequins all sheepishly but sitting very still in Ford seats? And how does 6,000 actual butts in seats at Gerald Ford Stadium ever equate to 17,000 on Fill Ford Day? Is this some kind of new math or what one famous Texan used to call, uh, "fuzzy" math?

stangbang, SMU was a terrible program when yall coat-tailed hiding behind the shadows of the other schools you all came into CUSA with. Is that really a scenario that makes your people on the Hilltop beat their chest with Peruna pride? At what time does SMU (money and all) start producing big time crowds in the Big Time you all still profess to be part of? Granted, UNT has been down for quite awhile, but hellsbells, even without an approx. 100 year Southwest Conference background as SMU had we can still draw better crowds many more times than SMU with our 6 years in a row football program. We could do that even if we had an "Empty All the Seats @ Fouts Field" Game Day promotion. :blink:

You say SMU powers don't like us at UNT? :huh: Jeez, this is a complete revelation to us. :blink: We thought our church-related school neighbors over at University Park were just typical neighborly types with that old "do unto others" Golden Rule thing your SMU Perkins School of Theology has (I suppose) still preaches? Yet, even the Golden Rule has been twisted by some of your elite to fit your culture with many of them who say it really means "he who has the gold-rules?"

Well, that kind of attitude and a buck will get you a bad cup of coffee at McDonalds mid-afternoon and even make long time partners or your former bobbsy twin, ie, TCU want to remove their presence from your school's self important presence and now with a Horned Frog program who is dishing out to SMU the same stuff you are dishing out to UNT. Sorta' hurts when that gold-plated horse shoe is on the other hoof, eh?

Moral of Post: SMU is blown away with our growth (closing in on 40,000 students)and still projected by the Texas Higher Ed Coordinating Board to one day be the 2'nd largest university in the Lone Star State. SMU'ers can also no longer use their forever worn out "commuter school" barb at us since we have more than twice the number of our students living on or within blocks of our "dormitory saturated" campus (with more on the way) than SMU's...........entire enrollment.

So how SMU gets around such blatant UNT truths is by saying, "we don't like you and so you can't play with our toys, football or basketballs." So when does PeeWee Herman make a kids movie about SMU who acts like a kid when it comes to the University of North Texas?

At some point, though, a public university oriented conference is going to tell us--"we do like you North Texas, and your school with its enormous constituency can bring so many number to our league simply based on your staggering (and still growing) numbers." And then.........the worm will have turned forever as far as the subject of SMU would be concerned.

GMG!

Edited November 23, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

Quoner · November 23, 2010

Stangbang seems like a nice, even-keel guy just trying to offer perspective on a relevant topic.

Good work everyone!

Arkstfan · November 23, 2010

Possibly, but having Coach Coker in place didn't hurt UTSA's entrance into the WAC.

Announcing they planned to go FBS when the WAC desperately needed members helped more.

VideoEagle · November 23, 2010

Much higher then UNT. SMU, Houston, and UTEP are easily there top 3 choices in no particular order. Tell me one reason why they would want UNT over SMU.

Attendance at football games is a possible plus. We had 21K for a really bad team and you had 17k for a really good team. But that isn't much.

I'm curious why SMU would want to move away from Tulsa, Rice and Tulane. Together you are a pretty powerful block in CUSA. Without BYU, Utah and TCU, the MWC isn't the same conference. I'm not nearly as interested in a CUSA without SMU or Houston as one of CUSAs main draws for NT was playing school with an actual Division 1 history in Texas.

I think we all get a little too hung up on the uniform patches rather than actual conference membership.

VideoEagle · November 23, 2010

Announcing they planned to go FBS when the WAC desperately needed members helped more.

UTSA could have been SHARING a coach with Churchill High School and the WAC would have invited them!

NM Green · November 23, 2010

With all due respect to our Pony fan I am confident we would not only compete with SMU for that MWC slot, but beat them out of it too. Those Western programs that will rue the conference roost know SMU and UNT by more than name. They understand what UNT brings to the table and what SMU does. It is clearly slanted in the favor of UNT on all fronts.

Football - great coach SMU - new coach and stadium UNT

Basketball - SMU = aweful - Tournament champions and tourney appearances = UNT

Enrollment - SMU (worse than TCU from a fanbase perspective) - UNT unbridled potential

History with MWC - SMU lackluster (not TCU)- UNT familiarity from our 1AA and Big West days

Location - SMU - great - UNT - great

I just think we beat out SMU for an invite. It is SMU's last stand to show superiority over UNT which is a mirage in this new day and age. UNT has so much to offer the MWC, Big East or Big 12. CUSA is a cute conference but I am not impressed. Go bold and make the mountaintop the baseline. Our 10 year plan should have us strategically positioned to enter a conference with Tech, Baylor, A&M and Texas, wherever they lie in 2020.

GMG

Arkstfan · November 23, 2010

I practiced family law long enough to know that when people get a divorce and then remarry, no matter how much they hated their spouse, they are most likely going to marry someone similar to the person they divorced. They will either share similar interests or have a similar phyisical appearance to when they married or both.

MWC has officially added four schools since forming.

I do not believe MWC took TCU for DFW. The Frogs had four ranked teams in the five years before they joined.

Boise State had busted the BCS twice and was high enough to do it a third time before they were taken.

Nevada has been ranked and is ranked this year.

Fresno has a history of quality wins though they've not finished ranked of late.

Likely to be invited Hawaii is in the exclusive club of four schools that have busted the BCS.

There is a commonality to their invites all are schools that have achieved at a high and fairly consistent level.

MWC has shown a vision of what they aspire to be in who they take. They want to build a league that fills that gap in major teams between the Big XII and Pac-12 footprint. They place home gate receipts over TV (see how many weeknight games they play).

CUSA has shown they pursue large markets with no regard to success. They will go to small markets if you have had success and sell lots of tickets.

CUSA's vision is to achieve maximum television dollars.

Obviously, MWC hasn't accomplished its vision. They can do the buster thing but appear short in AQ status. CUSA has in my opinion botched its vision badly. Right now I'm hearing they don't want to do many weeknight games and will have to back down off that or accept less money than the Sun Belt because they've failed to create a must-watch product.

Because of this, I don't believe the MWC is likely to go to 12 if TCU leaves because there aren't two schools they can get that fit the model they've followed. Are they compelled to stick with the model? Of course not, but I wouldn't bet the house on them departing from it.

I don't think Big East is likely to add more than TCU and Villanova because no one they can add helps football the way TCU does and no one can help keep the full 16 circuit as stable as adding Villanova. They can go crazy and pursue some 20 team alignment that brings multiple schools with iffy basketball resumes but that just seems out of character. Their new commish might favor it and smooth talk the members into it, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Eagle1855 · November 23, 2010

Thoughts on UNT possibly going to the WAC? Just want to hear some opinions.

All About UNT · November 23, 2010

The MWC expansion has nothing to do with basketball for one. If you want to look at other sports SMU consistently wins the ALL-Sports rankings for CUSA despite the terrible basketball. I really have no defense for how terrible the basketball team is. This is about money and football. The MWC is trying to get to AQ status. If TCU leaves the MWC will be at 10 teams meaning 2 teams will be invited. If TCU Stays the MWC takes Houston. If TCU leaves the MWC takes Houston and SMU. They want a foothold in DFW so SMU is the logical choice if TCU leaves. It may be the third winning season in 22 years but the SMU program has a storied history. There is no denying the program is on the rise. They have a proven coach, who has taken a team from the worst in the NCAA, to a BCS game. SMU outdraws UNT so not really sure why you are bashing on SMU's attendance.

A bowl bound SMU that only put 17,513 in the seats against Marshall...put less than that against Washington St? I am sorry but if we are making this comparison then you are smoking crack. We opened this year against Rice with 24k and no reason except excitement to back up the numbers. We put 7k in the seats for the Texas Tech basketball game while SMU had a hundred or so people make the measly 25 mile trip to Ft. Worth to watch the SMUt play against TCU in a cross-town rivalry game. The bottom line is that your bowl bound numbers are mirroring our "injury prone and stagnant season" numbers. The potential is far more in UNT's favor and most conferences cannot ignore that. I have always debated that SMU's students and alum have done the school no favors in that most locals watching college football just cannot relate to the school, the mindset or the typically privileged life that come with being an SMU student. So while UNT making not be soaking it up....I can promise you that if our team were bowl bound we would have but far more than 17k in the seats for our last home game.

Edited November 23, 2010 by All About UNT