Mwc May Add Another Member

Mean Green 93-98 · November 21, 2010

If true, I assume this means they will add at least two new members if TCU goes to the BE.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/19/mountain-west-has-interests-beyond-hawaii/

wardly · November 21, 2010

helps us only if smu gets mwc slot. if tcu stays in mwv, houston may get mwv invite. if tcu moves to big east, then mwc may stick to their roots and add utah state and utep. nmsu might rejoin sun belt, but idaho and san jose st. would probably drop dowm to big sky. having said that, i would not have thought mwc would have invited hawaii for football only. should play out soon for recruiting purposes, but who knows.

Harry · November 21, 2010

Keep in mind SMU is tied to the hip with tulane and rice...

Cowtown · November 21, 2010

Why would SMU want to go to MWC? With or w/o Frogs

Same goes for Houston.

UTEP I can see, but not SMU & Cougs

Green Mean · November 21, 2010

Why would SMU want to go to MWC? With or w/o Frogs
Same goes for Houston.
UTEP I can see, but not SMU & Cougs

Why not? Better conference, perception etc. MWC is clearly the best non BCS conference out there even after the realignment is done.

wardly · November 21, 2010

Why would SMU want to go to MWC? With or w/o Frogs
Same goes for Houston.
UTEP I can see, but not SMU & Cougs

t.v.$. one reason tcu wants big east.

wardly · November 21, 2010

Keep in mind SMU is tied to the hip with tulane and rice...

you could include tulsa as well. however,it has been my observation, that when given the opportunity, universities do what is in their own best interest, not necessarily whats best for their conference. [look at the wac, for example]. again, just an opinion.

VideoEagle · November 21, 2010

t.v.$. one reason tcu wants big east.

I think being in an AQ conference is more important than the money for the Frogs. Being in such a conference is what matters to their donors.

you could include tulsa as well. however,it has been my observation, that when given the opportunity, universities do what is in their own best interest, not necessarily whats best for their conference. [look at the wac, for example]. again, just an opinion.

Yes, generally I agree. But in the case of the small privates in CUSA, if they stick together they have more influence than they would individually. None deliver a TV market. None deliver large crowds. But together, they can deliver a quarter of the votes in CUSA. The key is they have to agree to stick together.

TheColonyEagle · November 21, 2010

This could get interesting and I think UNT is going to be in the mix. (gotta get that baseball team).

Let's say TCU stays and MWC adds 1. According to the article, U of H appears to be the favorite. Then CUSA needs a western team to replace UH right? Looks like we'll be fighting it out with LaTech? (and SMU I guess)

If TCU leaves and they still want to get to 12, UH is probably a lock then who is next? Do they go after another WAC school for geography purposes? I would think UTEP may jump in there but this is where UNT may want to get in the mix for MWC. We're in a much better position to compete with UTEP this time compared to the CUSA spot and we would be a good eastern fit with U of H.

Travel, shmavel, if we have a chance to get into the MWC I think it's a no brainer.

While private schools are trying to keep us out of their little conference, we could leap frog right past them and into a borderline AQ conference.

And I might add, this where our hired political guns should come into play. Backroom experience + outstanding facilities = good position...

Is the MWC a pipe dream?

Not so sure.

Edited November 21, 2010 by TheColonyEagle

Harry · November 21, 2010

This could get interesting and I think UNT is going to be in the mix. (gotta get that baseball team).

Let's say TCU stays and MWC adds 1. According to the article, U of H appears to be the favorite. Then CUSA needs a western team to replace UH right? Looks like we'll be fighting it out with LaTech? (and SMU I guess)

If TCU leaves and they still want to get to 12, UH is probably a lock then who is next? Do they go after another WAC school for geography purposes? I would think UTEP may jump in there but this is where UNT may want to get in the mix for MWC. We're in a much better position to compete with UTEP this time compared to the CUSA spot and we would be a good eastern fit with U of H.

Travel, shmavel, if we have a chance to get into the MWC I think it's a no brainer.

While private schools are trying to keep us out of their little conference, we could leap frog right past them and into a borderline AQ conference.

And I might add, this where our hired political guns should come into play. Backroom experience + outstanding facilities = good position...

Is the MWC a pipe dream?

Not so sure.

I don't think it is because everyone wants to have a foothold in Tx. If TCU goes to Big East then I am sure that the Mountain West will want someone to replace them either UTEP, Houston or perhaps even SMU. Frankly we have an advantage over UTEP in terms of our location for recruits - they have a geographic advantage in terms of the member schools in the Mountain West. We wouldn't be first in line for Mountain West but our location is advantageous to us if TCU goes to the Big East without a doubt.

PlummMeanGreen · November 21, 2010

I don't think it is because everyone wants to have a foothold in Tx. If TCU goes to Big East then I am sure that the Mountain West will want someone to replace them either UTEP, Houston or perhaps even SMU. Frankly we have an advantage over UTEP in terms of our location for recruits - they have a geographic advantage in terms of the member schools in the Mountain West. We wouldn't be first in line for Mountain West but our location is advantageous to us if TCU goes to the Big East without a doubt.

And 2 of our best alums just the last few days told me "the name hire could probably help UNT immensely to eventually get a better conference home, too."

We have to get past the project idea this time around for so many more reasons than one.

This why a Francione-type hire would be an attention getter to leagues looking than the unknown name and quanitity--at least at the FBS level. Fran has turned losers into winners pretty quick and with our 6 losing year in a row, that would be a welcome sight in Denton. If (a big if) Fran came to UNT, I'd just like him to stay longer than he has other places and it wouldn't hurt if he brought his Brenham JUCO HFC son to Denton, either.

Addendum: I would still be quite happy with the Leavitt HFC--Canales Asst. HFC combo, too.

GMG!

Edited November 21, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

TheColonyEagle · November 21, 2010

I don't think it is because everyone wants to have a foothold in Tx. If TCU goes to Big East then I am sure that the Mountain West will want someone to replace them either UTEP, Houston or perhaps even SMU. Frankly we have an advantage over UTEP in terms of our location for recruits - they have a geographic advantage in terms of the member schools in the Mountain West. We wouldn't be first in line for Mountain West but our location is advantageous to us if TCU goes to the Big East without a doubt.

Yep

Gonna be interesting.

I would love to know what SMU is thinking. If two spots opened up would they go to MWC if given the chance? It would make sense to upgrade but then they would look around and say, "uh oh, we're a little guy all by ourselves. We have NO power."

Then SMU would have to succeed on their own merits. I don't know if SMU can carry their own weight. I guess they just keep writing checks but how long does that last?

PlummMeanGreen · November 21, 2010

I guess they just keep writing checks but how long does that last?

Till they run out of checks and have to go to their debit card? :rolleyes:

SleepingGiantsFan · November 21, 2010

Keep in mind SMU is tied to the hip with tulane and rice...

Chances of Tulane and Rice being added to the MWC: zero. Student populations are much too small and even just with Hawaii coming in there is a growing perception that the MWC is starting to become the same WAC which AFA, CSU, Wyoming, UNM, UNLV and SDSU left to begin with.

SMU's chances? Also zero until they hired June Jones. Money talks and if SMU thinks the MWC will gain AQ status, regardless of the "hipness," SMU walks.

Edited November 21, 2010 by SleepingGiantsFan

TheColonyEagle · November 21, 2010

Chances of Tulane and Rice being added to the MWC: zero. Student populations are much too small and even just with Hawaii coming in there is a growing perception that the MWC is starting to become the same WAC which AFA, CSU, Wyoming, UNM, UNLV and SDSU left to begin with.

SMU's chances? Also zero until they hired June Jones. Money talks and if SMU thinks the MWC will gain AQ status, regardless of the "hipness," SMU walks.

I just don't know how much upside SMU has. Yesterday they had a chance to get bowl eligible, take the lead in CUSA West, and I believe had a "Fill the Ford" promotion and drew 17K. Will their $2 million dollar coach stick around? Why aren't they gaining any momentum?

SMU is maxed out. I don't know what they can bring to the MWC.

SleepingGiantsFan · November 21, 2010

I just don't know how much upside SMU has. Yesterday they had a chance to get bowl eligible, take the lead in CUSA West, and I believe had a "Fill the Ford" promotion and drew 17K. Will their $2 million dollar coach stick around? Why aren't they gaining any momentum?

SMU is maxed out. I don't know what they can bring to the MWC.

You asked above how long they can continue to write checks. I think that's an excellent point.

Having lurked on their board a few times, there is a solid core of SMU fans that believe they should never chance the death penalty again. As is apparent from SMU's past and the current mess at Auburn, the easiest way to start down that slippery slope is to have a few rich alumni who have too much influence on the program because they "write [big] checks." Just look at how Craig James stuck his nose into the Texas Tech program. No way should somebody with that much knowledge of how the process works have been lobbying to get his kid more playing time like James was reportedly doing. Well, the fact that James is one of the five amigos (or whatever they called themselves) who are paying the vast majority of June Jones' contract sure would give me pause if I was one of those other alumni worried about again getting trouble with the NCAA.

So I agree with you. I'm not somebody who wants to see SMU added to the MWC. Actually, I'm in the extreme minority of posters on the MWC board who looks at conference membership very long term and thinks that for various reasons, UNT might make a good addition at some point. Of course, to begin with, you guys can't botch this football hire up like you did the last one. (And BTW, I don't want to be a pain, but I'm still wondering why Todd Dodge was hired in the first place. A HIGH SCHOOL coach? That's like five or six levels down from coaching at DIA.)

Green Mean · November 21, 2010

Then SMU would have to succeed on their own merits. I don't know if SMU can carry their own weight. I guess they just keep writing checks but how long does that last?

This pretty much takes you where you want or need to go. As long as the alums see the athletic department and administration see commitment to win then funding will never be an issue. And they may miss once or twice but if they shoot for good coaches even if they over pay then you are probably getting a proven commodity and the team will at least be pretty respectable.

wardly · November 21, 2010

And 2 of our best alums just the last few days told me "the name hire could probably help UNT immensely to eventually get a better conference home, too."

We have to get past the project idea this time around for so many more reasons than one.

This why a Francione-type hire would be an attention getter to leagues looking than the unknown name and quanitity--at least at the FBS level. Fran has turned losers into winners pretty quick and with our 6 losing year in a row, that would be a welcome sight in Denton. If (a big if) Fran came to UNT, I'd just like him to stay longer than he has other places and it wouldn't hurt if he brought his Brenham JUCO HFC son to Denton, either.

Addendum: I would still be quite happy with the Leavitt HFC--Canales Asst. HFC combo, too.

GMG!

granted it was 30+ years ago,but hayden fry was unable to get us in a bowl game, let alone a decent conference. me thinks name game overated.

PlummMeanGreen · November 21, 2010

granted it was 30+ years ago,but hayden fry was unable to get us in a bowl game, let alone a decent conference. me thinks name game overated.

Come on, w2, the NCAA had about 1/4'th the number of bowl games back during Fry's time at UNT than it has today.

If back then we'd have the same number of bowls we do have today, Fry would have had us in a bowl his first year at UNT with his champion Missouri Valley Conference team but.........the old MVC had no bowl tie at that time.

The Fry Era compared to today is apples and oranges. And if more bowls in 1975 as there are today, Fry's win over the Tennessee Volunteers would have been a sweet win over a bowl elgible UT Vol/SEC football team since they won 6 that year; of course, with more bowls that same year, Fry would have had his "2'nd" bowl team his 3'rd year in Denton.

BACK TO THE PRESENT: If the SBC had a 2'nd team that actually had the number of wins to become bowl elgible this Fall, the 'Belt could have had 2 teams in bowls (but we know that ain't going to happen).

GMG!

Edited November 21, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

shaft · November 21, 2010

Conference don't pick new schools based on who the coach is. Coaches come and go.

Any expansion move the MWC makes is in our favor.

If they take a team from the WAC, it pretty much kill the conference and more BCS cash for us.

If they take a team from CUSA, we have a shot at filling the hole and CUSA. And if we don't get into CUSA there is still a chance of the dominoes kill the WAC anyway.

As long as the WACs dies, we win.

buff64 · November 21, 2010

Conference don't pick new schools based on who the coach is. Coaches come and go.

Any expansion move the MWC makes is in our favor.
If they take a team from the WAC, it pretty much kill the conference and more BCS cash for us.
If they take a team from CUSA, we have a shot at filling the hole and CUSA. And if we don't get into CUSA there is still a chance of the dominoes kill the WAC anyway.

As long as the WACs dies, we win.

Possibly, but having Coach Coker in place didn't hurt UTSA's entrance into the WAC.

SleepingGiantsFan · November 22, 2010

Conference don't pick new schools based on who the coach is. Coaches come and go.

Any expansion move the MWC makes is in our favor.
If they take a team from the WAC, it pretty much kill the conference and more BCS cash for us.
If they take a team from CUSA, we have a shot at filling the hole and CUSA. And if we don't get into CUSA there is still a chance of the dominoes kill the WAC anyway.

As long as the WACs dies, we win.

There are a few uninformed posters on the MWC board who think the conference should take Utah State in order to recapture the Utah TV market with the impending exit of BYU and Utah. Problem is nobody outside Utah cares a whit about USU nor does anybody in the state except the limited population that is north of SLC. Further, BYU and Utah capture what little HS football talent there is there and USU's basketball program doesn't justify adding the additional mouth to feed.

Aside from Utah State basketball, there will be no team within the WAC with any visibility outside its own geographic area once Boise, UNR, Fresno and Hawaii leave. San Jose State is close to shutting down its football program, LA Tech will probably be asked to join CUSA if the Big East poaches East Carolina and/or UCF.

Bottom line is the WAC is almost dead. That's unfortunate for the MWC in the sense it limits the obvious choices for expansion. However, given your geography, it will open things up for you. I mean, in my view, UNT potentially offers far more than Utah State or New Mexico State. But to repeat, since it's all about football, particularly since you're opening a new stadium, this hire is crucial for you folks.

SleepingGiantsFan · November 22, 2010

Possibly, but having Coach Coker in place didn't hurt UTSA's entrance into the WAC.

This. And the reason is it shows a commitment to football that conferences are looking for.

That would be as opposed to UNLV, which pays its head football coach far less than anybody else in the MWC, and which has fans who openly advocate dropping the sport.

oldguystudent · November 22, 2010

The Fry Era compared to today is apples and oranges.

And yet we cite him as the standard to live up to in the present day again and again and again and again and again. Jeez. Build a statue of the guy in front of the new stadium and let him go!

As for all this conference talk, this board sometimes sounds like a bunch of welfare moms waiting for the government to extend their benefits to include free Cadillacs. Will the dominoes fall this way? Will SMU going to conference X compel conference Y to give us a break? Why, oh why doesn't conference Z see that we belong?

The answer to all of those questions lies in a sub .250 record for the past many years. Tell ya' what. Let UNT take care of its own business in its own house and all that conference stuff will eventually work itself out. To very loosely paraphrase a Lil Wayne lyric, "Win games, get recognition." If UNT can't beat anybody outside the conference*, then they've got nothing to offer when jumping up and down wanting to play with the big boys like some kid trying to get in on his big brother's pool hustle.

*Going back to the 2004 season, there have been 2 OOC wins -- Ball St and SMU. I looked at 2003, but I can't tell which games were conference games and which weren't, although the Baylor win is impressive.

Cowtown · November 22, 2010

Currently CUSA has a better TV Deal.

I cant imagine the SMU suits wanting to part from the "Magnolia League" of Tulsa, Tulane y Rice.

Without TCU, Utah or BYU the new MWC is still just another mid major w/o any chance of getting an auto bid. SMU already has that in CUSA and much easier travel.

Maybe Houston...UTEP for sure, but man, I just dont see the Ponies wanting to go West.