Saga Of Our Last Hs Fb Coach Hire & Why...

[PlummMeanGreen]

Yes, no secret here, we are talking about Dennis Parker and his entire staff's short 3 year career at UNT; ie, a coach's staff that were fired even after they had finished recruiting their 3'rd and last class at North Texas. Our new coach would not even get to recruit for his first season but had to wait till the next recruiting season.

What happened? The stadium is what happened even back then, too, ie, Fouts Field had been approved by our "most the time looking to the future" UNT student body for a 10,500 seat expansion to increase Fouts to 30,500.

Why More Seats For Fouts? So we could meet the all important 20,000 per home game attendance for UNT to regain the most prestigious NCAA D1-A status; back then, you also had to have a 30,000 seat stadium which our students made possible; kinda' like they are making this new stadium possible? Do we owe first class to all those students who are paying for a huge hunk of our new football palace? I think most would agree that UNT owes that to all those students.

Oh Yes, the Stakes Were So High For MG Football As To Get Full Attention of our UNT President, Board of Regents and (then) Athletic Director:

North Texas in what could have been Parker's 4'th season suddenly had some very high stakes staring our school straight into the (proverbial) eyes inasmuch that our UNT president, our UNT Board of Regents and UNT AD saw a potential PR disaster and subsequent state-wide embarrassment that would have transpired so............ pretty quickly they knew they could not bring a losing program with a losing coach and his staff back the next season. They saw that alone could be a deal-killer for our meeting the criteria and selling some more football tickets in our history as to meet NCAA D1-A attendance criteria.........

...........nevertheless, Coach Dennis Parker and his assistant coach's staff were let go by UNT and then a new HFC and assistant football coaches staff (which included Kragthorpe) were brought in to help with the all important public relations aspects of the next "high stakes" football season.

Our UNT Administration new they had to have new football coaching leadership with its (then) new AD as to be able to sell the dream to the entire UNT constituency--statewide and worldwide. Worldwide? Remeber the oriental guy across the Big Pond who bought 10,000 Mean Green football season tickets because he believed in UNT's New Era and its very worthy challenge?

Long story short: UNT with all its new faces in a new era met its NCAA quota, that is, we got our numbers to get back to NCAA Division 1-A.

So how does all this apply to today's situation at UNT where the stakes of a $78,000,000 investment have made the stakes much, much higher than when Coach Parker & Staff were dismissed? Maybe significantly more new ticket sales and the need to impress some corporation to pay for the rest of our stadium? How could the stakes be much higher than that with a school whose alums in the past said they want a higer place in NCAA D1-A (or now the FBS)?

Edited November 14, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[VideoEagle]

It should be mentioned that Matt Simon's best year was his first playing with Dennis Parker's seniors. Like Rod Rust, Simon couldn't build a team himself.

[SilverEagle]

It should be mentioned that Matt Simon's best year was his first playing with Dennis Parker's seniors. Like Rod Rust, Simon couldn't build a team himself.

I'm told by people who know, that Rust was a great X's & O's guy, but he was a terrible recruiter. Would that be a fair assessment of Simon as well?

[PlummMeanGreen]

It should be mentioned that Matt Simon's best year was his first playing with Dennis Parker's seniors. Like Rod Rust, Simon couldn't build a team himself.

But didn't UNT powers have more in mind than X's and O's for that high stakes year which they knew they had to make a huge impresssion with our entire UNT constituency?

Attendance had to be 20K per home game (with no exception). The students made the expansion of Fouts Field possible but our campus leaders knew they needed drastic PR changes to sell people on what they had not been seeing the previous 3 yrs. with Parker and his staff so...........the UNT Administration very heavily encouraged Helwig to clean house because the next season would not be a business as usual football season. Much was at stake for our very high-up campus leaders, too, if failure in our newly expanded Fouts Field would have occured. It's really not about just one person or group, folks.

Our UNT Adminsitration will also believe the stakes are much higher for next year if we can believe all they want to happen with ticket sales to new fans for a New Era in a New Stadium. The Denton Record/Chronicle article in the link in my signature below says other things that suggests this is not the usual kind of hire at North Texas.

Yet all thats happening now is so very similar to Parker and Staff's last year as to why they were dismissed maybe a year before they probably should have is uncanny. And to let that whole staff go even after they had just finished recruiting showed even more the huge influence of our UNT Administration as to how important they saw the next football season.

GMG!

Edited November 14, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[VideoEagle]

I'm told by people who know, that Rust was a great X's & O's guy, but he was a terrible recruiter. Would that be a fair assessment of Simon as well?

I think so.

He had more coal than diamonds in his recruits. He seemed better at identifying good players after they had a couple of years of junior collage than those right out of high school. With recruiting limits, that will kill your program.

He did have a lot of wild, fun to watch plays.

Simon had some other demons in his life that I hope he has learned to deal with.

[shaft]

Which one let the team steal the VCRs from the hotel on road games?

There is no reason to re-write the past, they were both bad coaches.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Which one let the team steal the VCRs from the hotel on road games?

There is no reason to re-write the past, they were both bad coaches.

This thread intended to show it was mostly about public relations and selling tickets in a newly expanded Fouts than to compare one coach to another.

Nobody knew in Simon's first year what would happen later, but the PR aspects of his hire in his first year at UNT worked for whatever reason.

Edited November 14, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[PlummMeanGreen]

Just received a PM correcting the 20,000 per home game part; it was actually 17,000 per home game NCAA criteria but I think we almost averaged 20K per home game.

One of my favorite parts of that season was watching about 20,000 all sitting in the rain (nobody leaving) watching the Mean Green beat McNeese States; yes, it was Jub-Jub's famous "see ya' later McNeese State" call from the MGRN. It was a fun year for all of us who got to play a part in getting our football program back to NCAA D1-A.

Edited November 15, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[stebo]

Just received a PM correcting the 20,000 per home game part; it was actually 17,000 per home game NCAA criteria but I think we almost averaged 20K per home game.

One of my favorite parts of that season was watching about 20,000 all sitting in the rain (nobody leaving) watching the Mean Green beat McNeese States; yes, it was Jub-Jub's famous "see ya' later McNeese State" call from the MGRN. It was a fun year for all of us who got to play a part in getting our football program back to NCAA D1-A.

The old rule was that you either had to have a 30K seat stadium and average 17K in attendance OR average 20K over a 4 year period. Our admin knew that our best chance to move up was the one year shot (I was in SA back then) and they pulled out all the stops to get us there. Remember the party tent with free beer next to the stadium? My memory is starting to fail a little but I think that Deep Blue Something was just one of the bands that played that year to lure fans to the stadium. I think that we spent $1.5 million to build those erector set end zones. Troy LaGrone was the head of Ben E Keith (Budweiser distribution) back then and he funded a million of it. It was a pretty exciting thing to be a part of. Back then - I knew that I was a part of something bigger; but the fans did not really have a way to congregate like we do now. Enter the old Paradise "Harry's Mean Green" board and the parties that started to bring fans together. It was such a cool thing to meet other Mean Green fans and find out that I was not alone. Thanks for the trip down memory lane Plum, those were good times.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The old rule was that you either had to have a 30K seat stadium and average 17K in attendance OR average 20K over a 4 year period. Our admin knew that our best chance to move up was the one year shot (I was in SA back then) and they pulled out all the stops to get us there. Remember the party tent with free beer next to the stadium? My memory is starting to fail a little but I think that Deep Blue Something was just one of the bands that played that year to lure fans to the stadium. I think that we spent $1.5 million to build those erector set end zones. Troy LaGrone was the head of Ben E Keith (Budweiser distribution) back then and he funded a million of it. It was a pretty exciting thing to be a part of. Back then - I knew that I was a part of something bigger; but the fans did not really have a way to congregate like we do now. Enter the old Paradise "Harry's Mean Green" board and the parties that started to bring fans together. It was such a cool thing to meet other Mean Green fans and find out that I was not alone. Thanks for the trip down memory lane Plum, those were good times.

Stebo, what happened that football season was what can happen when the Mean Green Nation is unified.

Everyone wanted so bad to happen what we each and every one made happen. Spoke with several alums through the years who refer back to that special football season.

[shaft]

This thread intended to show it was mostly about public relations and selling tickets in a newly expanded Fouts than to compare one coach to another.

Nobody knew in Simon's first year what would happen later, but the PR aspects of his hire in his first year at UNT worked for whatever reason.

Well certainly don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.

[SilverEagle]

Stebo, what happened that football season was what can happen when the Mean Green Nation is unified.

Everyone wanted so bad to happen what we each and every one made happen. Spoke with several alums through the years who refer back to that special football season.

If you are talking about 1994, I was told that a rich alumni from Asia bought a large block of tickets for the whole year.

[stebo]

If you are talking about 1994, I was told that a rich alumni from Asia bought a large block of tickets for the whole year.

I think that might be a Mean Green urban legend. We only had to avergae 17K that year and were running people through the turnstiles in front of the party tent as well as the stadium. If someone came for the free beer and concert, they got counted for the game... It might have been an alumnus from Asia that covered the remainder of the metal bleachers though? I am really not sure - but going into that season, we were lucky (I mean really lucky) to get 8000 people out for a normal game. Good times.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Well certainly don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.

OK, shaft, start listing the, uh, facts you are referring to instead of just hanging your post out on a Texas oak tree limb.

And....if you actually name those facts--facts according to who? Oh, I know, probably the usual ones? Jeez!

Do you call every post you don't agree with a rant like others who cannot stand the idea that many of us don't agree with them on hardly anything in our Sun Belt'esque culture and society which Rawlins will change in due time?

Or........are you another frustrated Demoncrat who knows they screwed up with their 20008 vote, too, and takes it out on us Tea Party "middle to the right of the aisle" types? Tea Party? You know, the little ol ladies with purple tint white hair and real American Veterans from most every war who marched peacefully (but with a few "planted in the crowd" dissidents from the other side)? (Sorry, quoner--I did it again and Harry will probably PM me a warning ticket).

I still defer to the statements below:

Edited November 15, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[GreenMachine]

OK, shaft, start listing the, uh, facts you are referring to instead of just hanging your post out on a Texas oak tree limb.

And....if you actually name those facts--facts according to who? Oh, I know, probably the usual ones? Jeez!

Do you call every post you don't agree with a rant like others who cannot stand the idea that many of us don't agree with them on hardly anything in our Sun Belt'esque culture and society which Rawlins will change in due time?

Or........are you another frustrated Demoncrat who knows they screwed up with their 20008 vote, too, and takes it out on us Tea Party "middle to the right of the aisle" types? Tea Party? You know, the little ol ladies with purple tint white hair and real American Veterans from most every war who marched peacefully (but with a few "planted in the crowd" dissidents from the other side)? (Sorry, quoner--I did it again and Harry will probably PM me a warning ticket).

I still defer to the statements below:

the $78M palace that ballooned up to $100M at one point in your posts.

[UNT90]

OK, shaft, start listing the, uh, facts you are referring to instead of just hanging your post out on a Texas oak tree limb.

And....if you actually name those facts--facts according to who? Oh, I know, probably the usual ones? Jeez!

Do you call every post you don't agree with a rant like others who cannot stand the idea that many of us don't agree with them on hardly anything in our Sun Belt'esque culture and society which Rawlins will change in due time?

Or........are you another frustrated Demoncrat who knows they screwed up with their 20008 vote, too, and takes it out on us Tea Party "middle to the right of the aisle" types? Tea Party? You know, the little ol ladies with purple tint white hair and real American Veterans from most every war who marched peacefully (but with a few "planted in the crowd" dissidents from the other side)? (Sorry, quoner--I did it again and Harry will probably PM me a warning ticket).

I still defer to the statements below:

Seriously?

I agree with you on a lot, but leave the politics out of the football forum. There is a whole other forum where this beat-your-head-against-the-wall discussion can take place. Use it.

[VideoEagle]

Seriously?

I agree with you on a lot, but leave the politics out of the football forum. There is a whole other forum where this beat-your-head-against-the-wall discussion can take place. Use it.

UNT90 and I actually agree on something.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Seriously?

I agree with you on a lot, but leave the politics out of the football forum. There is a whole other forum where this beat-your-head-against-the-wall discussion can take place. Use it.

You're right. I have been so warned and Harry ain't jokin'.

[UNT90]

UNT90 and I actually agree on something.

How does it feel to be right for a change?

[VideoEagle]

How does it feel to be right for a change?

Funny, I was going to ask you the same question

[GreenEagleEye]

If you really want to know who paid for the expansion, why don't you call Virgil Strange? Virgil's company built it and I am pretty certain he knows how it was paid for. After all, some of you might recognize the name better if you consider his wife is Gayle Strange, the former BOR chair.

By the way, Strange no longer is sending in money due to the Bataille fallout according to the grapevine.

J.V. ‘Virgil’ Strange (’68) of Denton. Strange is owner of Axiom Commercial Co., a partner in multiple construction and development ventures in Denton, and president of Tremont Construction Corp. He is also the founder and former president of ITEC Steel Inc. and Golden Triangle Development Corp. His service to UNT includes work on and donations to the Alumni Center in the Gateway Center, the Shrader Pavilion, the hospitality deck at Fouts Field, tree preservation at Eagle Point and the Student-Athlete Development Center — funded by Strange and his wife, UNT Regent Gayle Strange (’67). Strange is a lifetime member of the President’s Council and the North Texas Exes and a member of the Mean Green Club.

[stebo]

If you really want to know who paid for the expansion, why don't you call Virgil Strange? Virgil's company built it and I am pretty certain he knows how it was paid for. After all, some of you might recognize the name better if you consider his wife is Gayle Strange, the former BOR chair.

By the way, Strange no longer is sending in money due to the Bataille fallout according to the grapevine.

J.V. ‘Virgil’ Strange (’68) of Denton. Strange is owner of Axiom Commercial Co., a partner in multiple construction and development ventures in Denton, and president of Tremont Construction Corp. He is also the founder and former president of ITEC Steel Inc. and Golden Triangle Development Corp. His service to UNT includes work on and donations to the Alumni Center in the Gateway Center, the Shrader Pavilion, the hospitality deck at Fouts Field, tree preservation at Eagle Point and the Student-Athlete Development Center — funded by Strange and his wife, UNT Regent Gayle Strange (’67). Strange is a lifetime member of the President’s Council and the North Texas Exes and a member of the Mean Green Club.

I am very familiar with Virgil's part in the whole equation and I am glad that you brought it up. He basically did the job at cost, didn't make a dime off of it, and probably lost an extra $30K or $35K in paying out company labor on the project. The original plans called for a million dollar expansion, that went up to $1.5 million because of delays and the lot. Of all the donations that have ever been made - his donation of "services" to expand Fouts was really huge. Without it - some construction company would have charged us double that to make the expansion and we would have never moved back up. Getting one million approved was hard enough. Getting a huge chunk of that from LaGrone was even harder. I think that there were some accusations that the AD had told the construction company to say that it would cost a million bucks even when they knew it would be more... just to get the shovels in the ground. When the costs went up 50%, it was too late to turn back.

It's a shame that his family is angry about Dr B's departure - their role in that was hiring Lee Jackson and I hope that they take some responsibility in that mess. I also think that there is a lot more to Dr B's departure than any of us will ever know. It was too fast, too cryptic, and quite frankly - she went down without a single punch thrown. I doubt the full story will ever come out - maybe after we are done paying her off, but I would guess that they made her sign a non-disclosure agreement for that golden parachute they gave her. What a waste.

steve

[PlummMeanGreen]

I am very familiar with Virgil's part in the whole equation and I am glad that you brought it up. He basically did the job at cost, didn't make a dime off of it, and probably lost an extra $30K or $35K in paying out company labor on the project. The original plans called for a million dollar expansion, that went up to $1.5 million because of delays and the lot. Of all the donations that have ever been made - his donation of "services" to expand Fouts was really huge. Without it - some construction company would have charged us double that to make the expansion and we would have never moved back up. Getting one million approved was hard enough. Getting a huge chunk of that from LaGrone was even harder. I think that there were some accusations that the AD had told the construction company to say that it would cost a million bucks even when they knew it would be more... just to get the shovels in the ground. When the costs went up 50%, it was too late to turn back.

It's a shame that his family is angry about Dr B's departure - their role in that was hiring Lee Jackson and I hope that they take some responsibility in that mess. I also think that there is a lot more to Dr B's departure than any of us will ever know. It was too fast, too cryptic, and quite frankly - she went down without a single punch thrown. I doubt the full story will ever come out - maybe after we are done paying her off, but I would guess that they made her sign a non-disclosure agreement for that golden parachute they gave her. What a waste.

steve

Steve (off topic) but are you still in the Tech School recruiting business? PM me on how that industry is doing as far as GSL's and Pells are concerned when you have time. I enjoyed my 25 years in that sector of education and hope you are having as much fun as I did, too. Jim

PS: How bout' JJ's teams win over Texas Tech last PM? He will be the first coach to get us inside a Top 25 BB poll--watch and see. Hope this coach will want to stay awhile, too.

[GrandGreen]

I think that might be a Mean Green urban legend. We only had to avergae 17K that year and were running people through the turnstiles in front of the party tent as well as the stadium. If someone came for the free beer and concert, they got counted for the game... It might have been an alumnus from Asia that covered the remainder of the metal bleachers though? I am really not sure - but going into that season, we were lucky (I mean really lucky) to get 8000 people out for a normal game. Good times.

Was not a legend, he purchased I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was in the thousands of cheap end zone tickets.

[stebo]

Have never recruited for a tech school... I will pm you how things are going with proprietary in general though.