Wwhfd

Green Nightmare · November 11, 2010

Yeah, so instead, we should simply hire the current fill-in who has never assembled a coaching staff, worked on/under/around a budget or run a recruiting system before, simply based on 4 games and some nice handouts.

Rick

I'm with 97and03. I don't want to hand the job to Canales just yet, but if he applied his background would be awful tempting on its own. At least merit him consideration

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

"what money gap"? Really?

Was that sarcasm?

Are you saying UNT is at the bottom of the Sun Belt in the athletic budget, resources and facilities?

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

First, please don't quote in the quote you pull, or else your words dont show up when other people try to quote you, and they have to do a bunch of copy/paste to see your words, and its really freaking annoying. Now, back to Arguing on the Internet.

OU's recruiting budget is bigger than out entire football budget. If you can't see why the kind of coach and tactics who could succeed at OU might not be the kind of coach and tactics that could succeed at NT, then we should just stop talking to each other, we are too far apart.

And out total sports budget will be what, a tenth of Baylors still? And we DO compete with the B12, for recruits. Look, obviously I think a coach can be successful here, I saw Dickey do it, I get told almost everyday that Fry did it, and I kinda remember Parker doing it. But we need a specific kind of coach, one that fits out needs.

No matter what Dodge said, football isnt football, and he is a great a example of it. He was able to build a program at SLC that was able to attract such good talent that his program was so much better than almost everyone else that he could just steam roll people.

He then took those tactics and attitude to a North Texas, where our program, compared to other area college programs, is not the strongest kid on the block. Those tactics failed here.

We don't have a strong enough program that just any good coach can come in here and win, we need someone who knows how to BUILD a program.

What does that have to do with comparing eras? We can win with the right coach, we have done that, but if we want to be successful beyond that we need someone who knows how to build a program for long term success.

The gap between the haves and the have nots. I think it is much greater now than it was during Fry's era.

Sorry, but I still haven't figured out that multi-quote thingy yet. I'm an old dinosaur that didn't get a computer until I was in my 40s.

Apparently you don't understand UNT is competing in the Sun Belt Conference and not the Big 12. You'll just have to trust me it's a much easier gig.

Cerebus · November 11, 2010

Apparently you don't understand UNT is competing in the Sun Belt Conference and not the Big 12. You'll just have to trust me it's a much easier gig.

We also have Sun Belt RESOURCES... why is this so hard to understand?

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

I'm with 97and03. I don't want to hand the job to Canales just yet, but if he applied his background would be awful tempting on its own. At least merit him consideration

His background?

What in his background suggests he will be a good head coach (administrator/CEO) which is entirely different job of being a position coach or a coordinator?

MeanGreenEngineer · November 11, 2010

Johnny Jones was a pretty unknown quantity (as far as his experience and ability as a head coach) and an assistant when he came to UNT. He's done a pretty good job as head coach for the BB team I would say.

How would you say Coach Stephens has done?

KRAM1 · November 11, 2010

KRAM, do you like Scrappy for head coach? He goes around and shakes everyone's hand is at every athletics event.

All I know is, Scrappy would be the most demonstrative coach to ever roam a college football sideline. Can someone start a Scrappy for Head Coach campaign? Get Chuck Neinas on the phone!

I like that idea better than I like inane replies like the above. You usually have something to add to the conversation when you post...not this time it seems. Back at ya!

MeanGreenEngineer · November 11, 2010

Apparently you don't understand UNT is competing in the Sun Belt Conference and not the Big 12. You'll just have to trust me it's a much easier gig.

Thanks for making my point. We are in the Sun Belt and not the Big 12, we need a coach who can build a program at the SBC level, because that is entirely differnt than rebuilding or maintaining an already built program in the Big 12.

You don't seem to understand the advantages that Mizzou, even when they were sucking up the place in the Big 12, has over a school like North Texas just by being in a BCS AQ conference.

How much was your BCS distribution check last year? Sixteen Million dollars more than what we got?

UNT Five&Dime · November 11, 2010

His background?

What in his background suggests he will be a good head coach (administrator/CEO) which is entirely different job of being a position coach or a coordinator?

He's worked with some of the best head coaches over the past 25 years.

KRAM1 · November 11, 2010

How would you say Coach Stephens has done?

How would you say Hawkins did before he reached Colorado? Come on...even HC experience and a great prior winning record does not guarantee success at your next stop. Fact is..."past performance does not guarantee future performance".

Sorry you missed the whole point about the post regarding JJ. Hopefully, I have spelled it out for you a little better now.

To answer your question directly, not very good, but I thought that was obvious to everyone by now. Glad I could clear that up for you too. :lol:

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

The gap between the haves and the have nots. I think it is much greater now than it was during Fry's era.

Really??

Perhaps you are too young to remember college football in the 1970s. Back in those daze the gap between the haves and have nots was HUGE!

Programs like Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, etc., etc. had the money to stockpile talented players that would be starters and stars at the have not schools such as Kansas State. After Johnny Majors and Tony Dorsett won the NC in 1976 Johnny Majors went out and signed 125 freshman to scholarships!

So...

The NCAA now has a rule that any one team cannot have more than 85 scholarship TOTAL. How do you think teams like TCU and Boise State came to be winning football teams?

MeanGreenEngineer · November 11, 2010

I want to clarify something.

I am not anti Canales. I think he is showing some positive signs that he may, in fact, be a honest to God, praise Jesus and pass the ammunition PROGRAM BUILDER.

But Leavitt is a KNOW PROGRAM BUILDER.

If we can get Leavitt, let's do it. If we can't, would I be more comfortable keeping Canales over some spare coordinater who has spent his entire life wrapped in the BCS money cocoon? Probably.

This choice is going to be vital to the programs future, we will NEVER get a chance this good to grow by leaps and bounds. New stadium, conference shufflings, expiring TV contracts, etc are making this a perfect storm. Now is it going to be a perfect storm of fulfilling potential or dissapointment? This hire is going to make or break that.

If we have a KNOWN PROGRAM BUILDER out there, do we really want to risk not hiring him?

UNTLifer · November 11, 2010

His background?

What in his background suggests he will be a good head coach (administrator/CEO) which is entirely different job of being a position coach or a coordinator?

What's your great concern with North Texas football? Aren't you a Missouri fan?

What in the following coach's backgrounds suggested to the person in charge of hiring them that they would be a good head coach?

Bob Stoopes

Bill Snyder (when originally hired by BSU)

Chris Peterson

Dan Hawkins (when hired at BSU)

Gary Patterson

Kevin Sumlin

Gene Chizik

Chip Kelly

Edited November 11, 2010 by UNTLifer

MeanGreenEngineer · November 11, 2010

Really??

Perhaps you are too young to remember college football in the 1970s. Back in those daze the gap between the haves and have nots was HUGE!

Programs like Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, etc., etc. had the money to stockpile talented players that would be starters and stars at the have not schools such as Kansas State. After Johnny Majors and Tony Dorsett won the NC in 1976 Johnny Majors went out and signed 125 freshman to scholarships!

So...

The NCAA now has a rule that any one team cannot have more than 85 scholarship TOTAL. How do you think teams like TCU and Boise State came to be winning football teams?

The budget for Texas A&M athletics is SEVENTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS. The budget for UT is over ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS.

Our budget isn't within an order of magnitude of that.

I said budget gap, not scholarship gap. If all the budgets were mandated equal by the NCAA, it wouldn't matter if there was no scholarship limit, everyone could only afford to have so many players in place. Not that I am for that.

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

Thanks for making my point. We are in the Sun Belt and not the Big 12, we need a coach who can build a program at the SBC level, because that is entirely differnt than rebuilding or maintaining an already built program in the Big 12.

You don't seem to understand the advantages that Mizzou, even when they were sucking up the place in the Big 12, has over a school like North Texas just by being in a BCS AQ conference.

How much was your BCS distribution check last year? Sixteen Million dollars more than what we got?

Football is football. Winning is winning.

Are you aware of what Boise State's football budget is?

Where is there more football talent, the entire State of Idaho or in Dallas/Ft Worth alone?

Why is UNT not competing for just a couple of the Texas players on Mizzou's roster?

Mizzou Football Roster

Edited November 11, 2010 by MizzouTigers

Mean Green Matt · November 11, 2010

The budget for Texas A&M athletics is SEVENTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS. The budget for UT is over ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS.

Our budget isn't within an order of magnitude of that.

I said budget gap, not scholarship gap. If all the budgets were mandated equal by the NCAA, it wouldn't matter if there was no scholarship limit, everyone could only afford to have so many players in place. Not that I am for that.

The NCAA would not even have to change their acronym....National Communist Athletic Association.

GrandGreen · November 11, 2010

...he would quit to become Iowa's AD.

I know people love Hayden Fry, and I can understand why, because he is one of the high points of North Texas football.

But why do we obssess over him? The world of college football is totally different than it was then. Yes some of his ideas, especially engaging the community are a good idea, especially from the role of AD, which is what he also was. The football coach more than anything needs to recruit, teach, adjust, win.

Alexander the Great's army steamrolled most of the world, but if the US Army tried to copy him now, we would find horse calvary and the sarissa spear a little lacking. College football isn't the same, Denton isn't the same, hell, people aren't the same anymore. A new coach should be looking forward, not backwards.

Disagree with your point. First, Fry coached until 12 years ago, not exactly in the leather helmet days. How is the world of football totally different these days? I can look back decades and I don't see the big changes you are referring to. The game is basically unchanged. The favored offenses and defenses run in cycles, but the fundamentals are the same. It is my guess that good coaches of old would be good coaches today and the reverse. The ability to lead, motivate and relate to staff, team and fans has always been paramount to success.

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

The budget for Texas A&M athletics is SEVENTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS. The budget for UT is over ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS.

Our budget isn't within an order of magnitude of that.

I said budget gap, not scholarship gap. If all the budgets were mandated equal by the NCAA, it wouldn't matter if there was no scholarship limit, everyone could only afford to have so many players in place. Not that I am for that.

O-kay...

What's Boise State's budget?

MeanGreenEngineer · November 11, 2010

How would you say Hawkins did before he reached Colorado? Come on...even HC experience and a great prior winning record does not guarantee success at your next stop. Fact is..."past performance does not guarantee future performance".

You are bad at sarcasm, or possibly you don't fully understand what you are quoting. Of course past performance does not GUARANTEE future performance, but it is very often the best indicator that we have to minimize risk.

If not, then we shouldn't even bother trying to interview or look at applicants, because all that means nothing. We might as well just sell raffle tickets and make the winner the head coach, we could setup a phone bank and call it Koaches Korner.

Of all the HC candidates bantered around here, there is only one that has taken nothing and turned it into a great program. That is the guy I want.

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

What's your great concern with North Texas football? Aren't you a Missouri fan?

What in the following coach's backgrounds suggested to the person in charge of hiring them that they would be a good head coach?

Bob Stoopes
Bill Snyder (when originally hired by BSU)
Chris Peterson
Dan Hawkins (when hired at BSU)
Gary Patterson
Kevin Sumlin
Gene Chizik
Chip Kelly

For every one of those success stories I can list at least 10-20 failures. Can UNT afford to take those odds in hiring their next coach?

MeanGreenEngineer · November 11, 2010

O-kay...

What's Boise State's budget?

Almost twice ours. And that does not include the one million dollars BSU expects to profit in merchandise sales this year.

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

I want to clarify something.

I am not anti Canales. I think he is showing some positive signs that he may, in fact, be a honest to God, praise Jesus and pass the ammunition PROGRAM BUILDER.

But Leavitt is a KNOW PROGRAM BUILDER.

If we can get Leavitt, let's do it. If we can't, would I be more comfortable keeping Canales over some spare coordinater who has spent his entire life wrapped in the BCS money cocoon? Probably.

This choice is going to be vital to the programs future, we will NEVER get a chance this good to grow by leaps and bounds. New stadium, conference shufflings, expiring TV contracts, etc are making this a perfect storm. Now is it going to be a perfect storm of fulfilling potential or dissapointment? This hire is going to make or break that.

If we have a KNOWN PROGRAM BUILDER out there, do we really want to risk not hiring him?

In that we are in full agreement.

Now...back to arguing about college football then and now...