Wwhfd

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

If we were recruiting against those caliber teams we would be dominating the Sun Belt year in year out. The fact is we are not. I hope that some day we will.

BINGO!

MeanGreenEngineer · November 11, 2010

So there's not enough football talent in the State of Texas to go around even with the 85 scholarship limit?

Are you so down on UNT that you don't believe some 3 star recruits would consider signing on?

Who was the last high recruit we got that an AQ school had offered? Riley? Before that, JaMario?

Both of them special circumstances.

greenminer · November 11, 2010

One of my favorite posters ever returns to the board and some of you welcome him in with a game of wordsmithing...

MGE don't leave us. I understand the breaks, just don't make one of them permanent.

Money is an issue, and there are some non-AQ programs - such as BSU - that we cannot be compared to right now. That is not an excuse for mediocrity. It should be the sign of a wise AD/fan base realizing what we need to build our own program successfully.

Edited November 11, 2010 by greenminer

MeanGreenEngineer · November 11, 2010

BINGO!

Wrong:

Just becasue we arent SUCCESFUL against them doesn't mean we aren't in a competitve market with them. If they didn't offer those recruits, we would, but they do, so we can't. They take the things we want, that is competition.

We compete (poorly) with the big programs.

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

When USF's program got off the ground, there were only 3 big-time football schools in the state. The state of Florida had a surplus of talent that USF was able to exploit.

The talent pool in Texas gets divided among ten D-1 Texas teams, plus OU, OSU, LSU, etc.

So UNT is not worthy of getting any of that talent in your mind?

Guess what? Every team in the SEC recruits Florida as well as schools in the Big 10 and Big 12.

Edited November 11, 2010 by MizzouTigers

tylermeangreen · November 11, 2010

Is UNT in a position to make that gamble when better and safer bets are available?

Excuse me for asking such a stupid question, MissouTigers - but what exactly is your interest in all of this? Why are you so interested in what happens with the The University of North Texas football program and the hiring of a new head football coach?

Can I assume that you are only interested in the hiring of the head football coach at The University of North Texas......or are you also cruising the boards of The University of Minnesota and The University of Colorado giving them your wisdom about their coaching vacancy?

You have been on this board for several weeks now, so I am just wondering.........it seems like a reasonable question given the fact that you have posted over 100 times in just a few weeks (especially given that by your own admission you were physically unavailable to post for a week or more).

People on this board critcize others, with questionable ties to the UNT program, for posting in favor of a possible Canales hiring - I am wondering if the same criticism can't be directed toward you given your open promotion of Jim Leavitt for this position.

Please tell me more...........

greenminer · November 11, 2010

Riley followed his dad here. I am grateful for his commitment to UNT

Jamario was vocal enough to admit it was UNT's program that assists students with learning disabilities that made him commit.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

MeanGreenEngineer · November 11, 2010

One of my favorite posters ever returns to the board and some of you welcome him in with a game of wordsmithing...

MGE don't leave us. I understand the breaks, just don't make one of them permanent.

Money is an issue, and there are some non-AQ programs - such as BSU - that we cannot be compared to right now. That is not an excuse for mediocrity. It should be the sign of a wise AD/fan base realizing what we need to build our own program successfully.

I said I would be back when Dodge was gone.

Like I already said, I like what Canales is doing. I would keep him over many of the coaches whose name have been passed around. But not over Leavitt, he went there, did that, got the t-shirt.

I hope some of you realize that not only is there a conference shuffle coming up, but quite possibly a classification shuffle as well. If we do poorly, at this critical time, with this critical hire, we could very well end up not being in the top classification anymore.

Chew on that, and get back to me if we should pass up on a guy who has succesfully built a program from the ground up.

TIgreen01 · November 11, 2010

Of all the HC candidates bantered around here, there is only one that has taken nothing and turned it into a great program. That is the guy I want.

So here's a question...not really arguing with you, just wondering aloud.

How much of Leavitt's success at USF was due to the politics surrounding him at USF that were really out of his control? USF was on a different path than what we are on. USF was already a member of CUSA when the football program was started. Back then, CUSA was a LOT better than it is now. It was one of the top 3 basketball leagues and gaining ground in football. Then, USF only ended up playing 2 years of football in CUSA before making the jump to the Big East. To me, I think that would be MUCH easier to recruit athletes to than maybe our situation....you know, unless there is some secret deal in place that's going to open all these conference's doors for us.

With USF already in a decent CUSA, was their money situation really akin to starting from scratch? And I haven't even brought about the fact that there were only 3 I-A level teams in the state of Florida at that time.

Again...just wondering aloud.

Season-by-season results

Division I-AA Year Overall Record Conference Standing Bowl Game

Independent

1997 5 - 6 N/A N/A

1998 8 - 3 N/A N/A

1999 7 - 4 N/A N/A

2000 7 - 4 N/A N/A

Division I-A Year Overall Record Conference Standing Bowl Game

Independent

2001 8 - 3 N/A N/A

2002 9 - 2 N/A N/A

Conference USA

2003 7 - 4 5 - 3 T - 3rd

2004 4 - 7 3 - 5 T - 6th

Big East

2005 6 - 6 4 - 3 T - 3rd Meineke Car Care [L]

2006 9 - 4 4 - 3 T - 4th Papajohns.com [W]

2007 9 - 4 4 - 3 T - 3rd Sun [L]

2008 8 - 5 2 - 5 6th St. Petersburg [W]

2009 8 - 5 3 - 4 T - 4th International [W]

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

Excuse me for asking such a stupid question, MissouTigers - but what exactly is your interest in all of this? Why are you so interested in what happens with the The University of North Texas football program and the hiring of a new head football coach?

Can I assume that you are only interested in the hiring of the head football coach at The University of North Texas......or are you also cruising the boards of The University of Minnesota and The University of Colorado giving them your wisdom about their coaching vacancy?

You have been on this board for several weeks now, so I am just wondering.........it seems like a reasonable question given the fact that you have posted over 100 times in just a few weeks (especially given that by your own admission you were physically unavailable to post for a week or more).

People on this board critcize others, with questionable ties to the UNT program, for posting in favor of a possible Canales hiring - I am wondering if the same criticism can't be directed toward you given your open promotion of Jim Leavitt for this position.

Please tell me more...........

LOL! A newby calling out another newby for being new! How ironic!

I like business. I like college football. I like debating the business of college football administration.

Now it's your turn...What are your ties to the UNT program? Hmmmm?

KRAM1 · November 11, 2010

You are bad at sarcasm, or possibly you don't fully understand what you are quoting. Of course past performance does not GUARANTEE future performance, but it is very often the best indicator that we have to minimize risk.

If not, then we shouldn't even bother trying to interview or look at applicants, because all that means nothing. We might as well just sell raffle tickets and make the winner the head coach, we could setup a phone bank and call it Koaches Korner.

Of all the HC candidates bantered around here, there is only one that has taken nothing and turned it into a great program. That is the guy I want.

No sarcasm was intended...it's a fact. Experience, no experience...no guarantee. I noted one case in point as an example after your inane comment about Coach Stephens. Colorado thought they were "minimizing risk" as well...worked out grate, didn't it? How many winning seasons did that "winning and highly experienced D-I coach post at Colorado? Point is, it's a crap shoot...you do the best job you can with the info you have and then you make the decision. Unlike engineering, it can't be "guaranteed" with a formula or a design. Even so, the engineering thought to be perfect is often seen to "fail" for one reason or another. Mack Brown is a pretty experienced D-1 level Coach, right? He seems to be having some challenges in Austin this year. Hawkins was fired, some of the coaches being mentioned as "great" and winners here on the board were fired due to losing records or inappropriate behavior (hmmmmmm, does that inappropriate behavior become any past indicator of potential future problems?).

How's your crystal ball for guaranteeing that winning record with the new coach? Probably not any better than mine and neither is nearly as good as the folks who are having to make the decision because this is what they do 365 days a year. Even so, it's pretty much a crap shoot as history tells. You pick your horse, I'll pick my favorite. It's all pure speculatuion at this point. If "your guy" gets it, great, he'll be the HC of the Mean Green, and he'll have my support. I just won't think there is guaranteed anything on the field when it comes to winning just because he may have had success elsewhere. Been around too long for that.

That plain enough for ya? Hope so. GO MEAN GREEN!

UNT Five&Dime · November 11, 2010

So here's a question...not really arguing with you, just wondering aloud.

How much of Leavitt's success at USF was due to the politics surrounding him at USF that were really out of his control? USF was on a different path than what we are on. USF was already a member of CUSA when the football program was started. Back then, CUSA was a LOT better than it is now. It was one of the top 3 basketball leagues and gaining ground in football. Then, USF only ended up playing 2 years of football in CUSA before making the jump to the Big East. To me, I think that would be MUCH easier to recruit athletes to than maybe our situation....you know, unless there is some secret deal in place that's going to open all these conference's doors for us.

With USF already in a decent CUSA, was their money situation really akin to starting from scratch? And I haven't even brought about the fact that there were only 3 I-A level teams in the state of Florida at that time.

Again...just wondering aloud.

Season-by-season results
Division I-AA Year Overall Record Conference Standing Bowl Game
Independent
1997 5 - 6 N/A N/A
1998 8 - 3 N/A N/A
1999 7 - 4 N/A N/A
2000 7 - 4 N/A N/A
Division I-A Year Overall Record Conference Standing Bowl Game
Independent
2001 8 - 3 N/A N/A
2002 9 - 2 N/A N/A
Conference USA
2003 7 - 4 5 - 3 T - 3rd
2004 4 - 7 3 - 5 T - 6th
Big East
2005 6 - 6 4 - 3 T - 3rd Meineke Car Care [L]
2006 9 - 4 4 - 3 T - 4th Papajohns.com [W]
2007 9 - 4 4 - 3 T - 3rd Sun [L]
2008 8 - 5 2 - 5 6th St. Petersburg [W]
2009 8 - 5 3 - 4 T - 4th International [W]

I'll say what you didn't want to:

3rd, 4th, 3rd, 6th and 4th in the Big East is not a great program. The #4 Div I team in Florida should win or be the bride's maid in that joke of an AQ conference every year.

Leavitt is a good coach, but let's tap the brakes on the USF praise.

TheTastyGreek · November 11, 2010

KRAM, do you like Scrappy for head coach? He goes around and shakes everyone's hand is at every athletics event.

All I know is, Scrappy would be the most demonstrative coach to ever roam a college football sideline. Can someone start a Scrappy for Head Coach campaign? Get Chuck Neinas on the phone!

I think we all know that Scrappy would be out the door in a heartbeat as soon as he got a few wins and picked up another job offer.

Also, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with his "off-the-field" issues. He's constantly flirting with my fiancee and I see him getting physical with women all over NT sporting events.

On the plus side, he seems to be a natural at recruiting. As long as we get him started on future recruits around the age of 5 or 6, I don't think anyone can out recruit Scrappy.

Green Mean · November 11, 2010

I'll say what you didn't want to:

3rd, 4th, 3rd, 6th and 4th in the Big East is not a great program. The #4 Div I team in Florida should win or be the bride's maid in that joke of an AQ conference every year.

Leavitt is a good coach, but let's tap the brakes on the USF praise.

Considering the program didn't exist 14 years ago is a hell of a job if you ask me.

tylermeangreen · November 11, 2010

LOL! A newby calling out another newby for being new! How ironic!

I like business. I like college football. I like debating the business of college football administration.

Now it's your turn...What are your ties to the UNT program? Hmmmm?

I expected such a reply (while you chose to not answer my specific questions).

Sir, I received a bachelor's degree from North Texas State University in 1972, and a Master of Public Administration degree from North Texas State University in 1975 (the university is now called The University of North Texas, just so you understand that we are talking about the same university).

I was heavily involved in the UNT football and alumni programs for many years - until subsequent administrations at the university chose to allow the program to languish. At that point, I had my fill and used my time, talents and energy in other ways.

I became a season ticket holder again in 2006 when Todd Dodge became the head football coach.

I have already made arrangements to purchase four (4) club seats in the new stadium.

There, in a nutshell, is my tie to The University of North Texas. That should explain my interest in UNT.

Now........explain in full what your tie is? How did you happen upon this board and why are you so aggressively pushing Leavitt to be the head football coach at a university where you have no obvious tie? What exactly is your tie to Leavitt and your strong promotion for The University of North Texas to hire him? Hmmmmmm?

UNT Five&Dime · November 11, 2010

Considering the program didn't exist 14 years ago is a hell of a job if you ask me.

I don't deny they've done well for themselves, but I wouldn't call it a great program. They peaked in '07 at 9-4. You get 5 OOC games in the Big East to pad your record, one being an extra home game.

If we go 9-4 that means we either got swept in OOC, were terrible in Sun Belt play or were terribly inconsistent/average. None of those results would be considered great.

Green Mean · November 11, 2010

I don't deny they've done well for themselves, but I wouldn't call it a great program. They peaked in '07 at 9-4. You get 5 OOC games in the Big East to pad your record, one being an extra home game.

If we go 9-4 that means we either got swept in OOC, were terrible in Sun Belt play or were terribly inconsistent/average. None of those results would be considered great.

Is it a big big dog? No it's not but we can't ignore where they came from. I mean we are having a difficult time getting out of the SBC and and they went from nothing 14 years ago to a BCS conference and even garnering quite a bit of national attention. Hell I see their games all the time on ESPN. And them going 9-4 in the Big East is no comparison to if we went 9-4 in the SBC is not a comparison. We can knock the Big East all we want in football they are still a BCS conference and have some very good programs as a whole.

MeanGreenTexan · November 11, 2010

I became a season ticket holder again in 2006 when Todd Dodge became the head football coach.
I have already made arrangements to purchase four (4) club seats in the new stadium.

Sorry to interject in this because my point is way off topic, but I wonder how many of you there are?

Here ladies & gentlemen is a fantastic example of a "name" coach (we can all agree that in the state of Texas, despite his qualifications, that Todd Dodge was a "name" coach) can have a positive effect on the fanbase even after he is gone.

I'm not saying that Dodge was the ONLY reason you got tickets Tyler, but surely something excited you enough to get tickets again... Then, you decided to buy club seats (despite Dodge's record) even though Dodge is gone.

It's fans like you that this hire should bring back. Is coach Canales the guy for this? I don't know, but I'm interested in what you have to say if you could step back in time and transpose Chico for Dodge.

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

I expected such a reply (while you chose to not answer my specific questions).

Sir, I received a bachelor's degree from North Texas State University in 1972, and a Master of Public Administration degree from North Texas State University in 1975 (the university is now called The University of North Texas, just so you understand that we are talking about the same university).

I was heavily involved in the UNT football and alumni programs for many years - until subsequent administrations at the university chose to allow the program to languish. At that point, I had my fill and used my time, talents and energy in other ways.

I became a season ticket holder again in 2006 when Todd Dodge became the head football coach.

I have already made arrangements to purchase four (4) club seats in the new stadium.

There, in a nutshell, is my tie to The University of North Texas. That should explain my interest in UNT.

Now........explain in full what your tie is? How did you happen upon this board and why are you so aggressively pushing Leavitt to be the head football coach at a university where you have no obvious tie? What exactly is your tie to Leavitt and your strong promotion for The University of North Texas to hire him? Hmmmmmm?

So you quit on UNT but now you're back on the bandwagon?

I'm sorry, but I must have missed the pre-requisites that govern the rules of a public messageboard such as this. Could you possibly link me to those rules so that I might see if I qualify to be here?

TIgreen01 · November 11, 2010

I'll say what you didn't want to:

3rd, 4th, 3rd, 6th and 4th in the Big East is not a great program. The #4 Div I team in Florida should win or be the bride's maid in that joke of an AQ conference every year.

Leavitt is a good coach, but let's tap the brakes on the USF praise.

I'm not necessarily saying that or knocking their accomplishments. I'm just not sure that it was Leavitt being there that was the catalyst for them moving up, or just that he was the coach when the administration got really behind the program and helped push them along. Basically, he was there at the right time. He's a good, competent coach that did well in the situation at South Florida. I don't necessarily think that translates directly to UNT.

Leavitt brings serious baggage with him. If UNT hires Leavitt, every story over the next year covering North Texas football would make mention of Leavitt and UNT giving him a second chance and focus on the student altercation. Why should we willingly put ourselves in that kind of situation? Unless Leavitt comes in and immediately wins the conference and quiets all the criticism, I don't think he's worth the risk---or the harm to our good name. Make no mistake, to the outside world, it would look like UNT sold their soul to start winning some football games. I, for one, care more about the school, as a whole, than to put a pot-mark on our reputation over winning a few football games.....esp. when we can win football games with several of the other candidates that I've seen discussed here and elsewhere.

Edited November 11, 2010 by TIgreen01

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

I don't deny they've done well for themselves, but I wouldn't call it a great program. They peaked in '07 at 9-4. You get 5 OOC games in the Big East to pad your record, one being an extra home game.

Yes, and in 2007 USF's OOC schedule was padded with a win over 13th ranked Auburn (at Auburn) and a win over 23rd ranked North Carolina just before they beat 5th ranked West Virginia.

I think UNT could use some padding like that.

Green Mean · November 11, 2010

Yes, and in 2007 USF's OOC schedule was padded with a win over 13th ranked Auburn (at Auburn) and a win over 23rd ranked North Carolina just before they beat 5th ranked West Virginia.

I think UNT could use some padding like that.

This.

UNT Five&Dime · November 11, 2010

Is it a big big dog? No it's not but we can't ignore where they came from. I mean we are having a difficult time getting out of the SBC and and they went from nothing 14 years ago to a BCS conference and even garnering quite a bit of national attention. Hell I see their games all the time on ESPN. And them going 9-4 in the Big East is no comparison to if we went 9-4 in the SBC is not a comparison. We can knock the Big East all we want in football they are still a BCS conference and have some very good programs as a whole.

Sorry for the confusion, not trying to compare us in the Belt to them in the Big East. Just trying to make a point that they were one of those three also. Each year they've been average in the Big East and done well in OOC. Just like 75% of the AQ teams. The ones that are great win inside and outside their conference.

Their opening 6 wins in '07 to get them to #2 and the national attention were against nice, not great teams. They consequently went on to lose 3 straight.

I'm not arguing USF's (by proxy, Leavitt's) successes. I just feel they are being a bit overblown.

MeanGreenTexan · November 11, 2010

So you quit on UNT but now you're back on the bandwagon?

I'm sorry, but I must have missed the pre-requisites that govern the rules of a public messageboard such as this. Could you possibly link me to those rules so that I might see if I qualify to be here?

Sir, it's one thing to come on here and hawk one specific coaching candidate on us... It is another malfeasance to attack an alum as being a "bandwagon" jumper!! Please don't do that again.

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

Sir, it's one thing to come on here and hawk one specific coaching candidate on us... It is another malfeasance to attack an alum as being a "bandwagon" jumper!! Please don't do that again.

He attacked me first.