Thoughts On Canales' Efforts To Land The Job

KingDL1 · November 11, 2010

What is your hang up on "brand name"? It seems that is all you are pushing is name. And I wasn't aware that I was displaying animosity?

But, you are right, we have a real opportunity this time around. That is why I want Leavitt.

Not trying to focus on you Rudy sorry I meant everyone. A name will excite the masses we need the masses to come, a name excites the recruits we need the good recruits to come, a name entices sponsors we can use all the sponsors we can get. A Canales maybe a winner but who really knows but his hiring won't bring any of the rest. I like Leavitt, I am not stuck on Leach or anyone I just want a proven head coach.

Rudy · November 11, 2010

Not trying to focus on you Rudy sorry I meant everyone. A name will excite the masses we need the masses to come, a name excites the recruits we need the good recruits to come, a name entices sponsors we can use all the sponsors we can get. A Canales maybe a winner but who really knows but his hiring won't bring any of the rest. I like Leavitt, I am not stuck on Leach or anyone I just want a proven head coach.

I just don't see how it is worth it to go after someone like Leach, or even Fran, when I just don't feel they will sell the program more than themselves, and be likely to jump ship at the first opportunity, putting us right back in this postion.

KingDL1 · November 11, 2010

I just don't see how it is worth it to go after someone like Leach, or even Fran, when I just don't feel they will sell the program more than themselves, and be likely to jump ship at the first opportunity, putting us right back in this postion.

I am not sure what it matters if we get top recruits, I expect us to land recruits who would not come here otherwise. I don't see how this is a negative.

Edited November 11, 2010 by KingDL1

Rudy · November 11, 2010

I am not sure what it matters if we get top recruits, I expect use to land recruits who would not come here otherwise. I don't see how this is a negative.

Was this a reply to a different post?

UNTLifer · November 11, 2010

Many reference Levitt and his building job at USF when communicating their desires for our program, while others reference Boise State, TCU or Utah. Please tell me which of these schools hired a coach, with a name, that was run off from his last job to build their current program?

Boise State = Koetter

USF = Levitt

TCU = Franchione

Utah = Meyer

None of the above fit this description, and only Fran was D1 HC prior to their hiring, and he really was not what I would call a "name brand.". I would also argue that TCU's sustained success has come under Patterson, who was unknown and not a popular choice at the time of his hiring.

The above programs got to where they are today based upon the success of the program, community involvement and a commitment from the university.

rcade · November 11, 2010

Boise State = Koetter
USF = Levitt
TCU = Franchione
Utah = Meyer

Meyer had engineered an incredible turnaround at Bowling Green for two years as head coach before being hired by Utah.

Franchione was head coach for six years at New Mexico and led them to a bowl game before being hired by TCU.

Koetter had been a coordinator for 11 seasons before being hired by Boise State.

Of those four, Leavitt is the only one without strong credentials when he was hired as head coach. But he was hired for a Division I-AA independent that was just getting started.

UNT needs a coach with skins on the wall; somebody who has proven they can win at the FBS level.

oldguystudent · November 11, 2010

UNT needs a coach with skins on the wall

And with this, my Bingo card is complete. Where do I claim my prize?

Green P1 · November 11, 2010

Has no one ever told you that you should not end your sentences with a preposition?

Has no one ever told you that you should shut up?

MeanGreenTexan · November 11, 2010

Has no one ever told you that you should shut up?

Boom goes the dynamite!

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

Meyer had engineered an incredible turnaround at Bowling Green for two years as head coach before being hired by Utah.

Franchione was head coach for six years at New Mexico and led them to a bowl game before being hired by TCU.

Koetter had been a coordinator for 11 seasons before being hired by Boise State.

Of those four, Leavitt is the only one without strong credentials when he was hired as head coach. But he was hired for a Division I-AA independent that was just getting started.

UNT needs a coach with skins on the wall; somebody who has proven they can win at the FBS level.

I'm very familiar personally with Dirk Koetter and his wife. She came into my restaurant in Columbia, Missouri regularly and he was the OC at Mizzou on Bob Stull's staff which ran the program into the ground (15-38-2). That coaching staff believed there was no need to play defense in the Big 8, so they came in and moved the best athletes on defense over to the offensive side of the ball. They believed all you had to do was outscore Missouri's opponents with a passing offense so in their minds there was no need for a rushing game. Someone forgot to tell Dirk that OU and Nebraska were very big on defense and had incredible team speed. Also, it came as a shock to the "Boys from South Texas" that it's kind of difficult to pass the football up north in November in cold, cold places like Lincoln, Nebraska and Ames, Iowa as well as on the cold and windy plains of Kansas in Manhattan.

Meahwhile at Kansas State...Leavitt had the exact same credentials as Bob Stoops, Mike Stoops and Mark Mangino who were given much of the credit for one of the greatest turnarounds in college football history at Kansas State.

"And then, the two of us hired Bill Snyder."

Snyder, who was offensive coordinator at Iowa under Hayden Fry, wanted competitive salaries for his assistant coaches.

"We can't be so much further below Nebraska and Oklahoma or Missouri or Colorado," Wefald said. "So we had to at least ratchet them up.

"I think by raising salaries for assistant coaches, Bill was able to go out and hire just a crackerjack group of assistants. We had Bob Stoops, who's now (head coach) at Oklahoma, for six years; we had Mike Stoops, who's (head coach) at Arizona, for five or six years; we had Mark Mangino, who went with Stoops to Oklahoma but then ended up as head coach at Kansas, and we had Jim Leavitt, who went to South Florida to start the football program there.

"By the way, (Leavitt) would be a good (Gophers) prospect."

Then, for Wefald, came improving the K-State stadium that was virtually rebuilt between 1990 and 1992.

"It seats about the same number of fans as the University of Minnesota, which is maybe the nicest 50,000-seat stadium in America," Wefald said. "I remember we used the 'Field of Dreams' as the metaphor: 'Build it and they will come.' And, of course, they will only come if you win."

Charley Waters Compares Minnesota to the K-State Turnaround

Edited November 11, 2010 by MizzouTigers

FirefightnRick · November 11, 2010

I'm very familiar personally with Dirk Koetter and his wife. She came into my restaurant in Columbia, Missouri regularly and he was the OC at Mizzou on Bob Stull's staff which ran the program into the ground (15-38-2). That coaching staff believed there was no need to play defense in the Big 8, so they came in and moved the best athletes on defense over to the offensive side of the ball. They believed all you had to do was outscore Missouri's opponents with a passing offense so in their minds there was no need for a rushing game. Someone forgot to tell Dirk that OU and Nebraska were very big on defense and had incredible team speed. Also, it came as a shock to the "Boys from South Texas" that it's kind of difficult to pass the football up north in November in cold, cold places like Lincoln, Nebraska and Ames, Iowa as well as on the cold and windy plains of Kansas in Manhattan.

Meahwhile at Kansas State...Leavitt had the exact same credentials as Bob Stoops, Mike Stoops and Mark Mangino who were given much of the credit for one of the greatest turnarounds in college football history at Kansas State.

"And then, the two of us hired Bill Snyder."

Snyder, who was offensive coordinator at Iowa under Hayden Fry, wanted competitive salaries for his assistant coaches.

"We can't be so much further below Nebraska and Oklahoma or Missouri or Colorado," Wefald said. "So we had to at least ratchet them up.

"I think by raising salaries for assistant coaches, Bill was able to go out and hire just a crackerjack group of assistants. We had Bob Stoops, who's now (head coach) at Oklahoma, for six years; we had Mike Stoops, who's (head coach) at Arizona, for five or six years; we had Mark Mangino, who went with Stoops to Oklahoma but then ended up as head coach at Kansas, and we had Jim Leavitt, who went to South Florida to start the football program there.

"By the way, (Leavitt) would be a good (Gophers) prospect."

Then, for Wefald, came improving the K-State stadium that was virtually rebuilt between 1990 and 1992.

"It seats about the same number of fans as the University of Minnesota, which is maybe the nicest 50,000-seat stadium in America," Wefald said. "I remember we used the 'Field of Dreams' as the metaphor: 'Build it and they will come.' And, of course, they will only come if you win."

Charley Waters Compares Minnesota to the K-State Turnaround

Good read!

Rick

forevereagle · November 11, 2010

Has no one ever told you that you should not end your sentences with a preposition?

Has anyone ever told you that doesn't matter? /Grammar'd

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

Good read!

Rick

I think the comparisons between K-State, Minnesota and UNT are stunningly similar. Perhaps all Minnesota and UNT needs is a Hayden Fry connection, a new stadium and a new coach...oh, wait...

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

Has anyone ever told you that doesn't matter? /Grammar'd

LOL!

Thanks for the link.

Edited November 11, 2010 by MizzouTigers

Ibleedgreen · November 11, 2010

What Emmitt said...YES!!!

The Fake Lonnie Finch · November 11, 2010

She came into my restaurant in Columbia, Missouri regularly and he was the OC at Mizzou on Bob Stull's staff which ran the program into the ground (15-38-2).

How exactly did Bob Stull run a program into the ground that was already run into the ground. His predecessor, Woody Widenhofer, was 12-31-1 in the four years before Stull was hired. The program had already had five consecutive losing seasons when Stull was hired.

The coach before Widenhofer, Warren Power, had a .579 winning percentage (46-33-3). Widenhofer took over and led the program with a .284 winning percentage. Stull, had a .290 winning percentage.

Widenhofer ran Missouri into the ground, not Stull. Stull simply couldn't revive Widenhofer's wreck.

Stull had engineered two season turnarounds at both Massachusetts and UTEP. He led UTEP to the only 10-win season in their history.

The Big 8 in the late 80s with Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Colorado as legitimate national powers is a different ball game than what he'd seen at UMass and UTEP. But, to blame him to the demise of Mizzou in the 80s is asinine.

We know you like Jim Leavitt, but don't lie about the kind of coach Bob Stull was. He was the offensive coordinator for some of Washington's best programs, with five 10 wins seasons while he assisted there.

He was also on James' staff at Kent State, where they were the last coaching staff to lead the Golden Flashes to winning seasons in three consecutive seasons; and, to the only bowl game in the school's history.

While with Washington, the Huskies went to three Rose Bowl, beating Michigan and Iowa (led by Hayden Fry). They also beat Texas in a bowl game with Stull calling the shots on offense.

Stull is currently UTEP's athletic director. His tenure at Missouri is the only blip on his resume, but he in no way "ran it into the ground." Bob Stull is a solid football guy and always was. He inherited a mess at Missouri. Many coaches failed during the power era of the 80s Nebraska-Oklahoma-Colorado. But, Stull sure as hell wasn't the reason Missouri was down.

Edited November 11, 2010 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

SleepingGiantsFan · November 11, 2010

Maybe you're right, but I think that IF he even wanted to come here, he would be wanting out at the first opportunity. What NT needs is to build it's program into something that replicates Boise, USF, Utah, or TCU. What better way to do that than with a coordinator from one of those schools, or since he is avaiable, a former head coach of one of those schools. We need somone who has worked with LESS than what we have and built a program to MORE than what we are now. If you think about it, anyone we hire would be an "experiment" Could Fran or leach build this program? Their last jobs had more than what we have. Would they be able to sell to recruits and convince them to come here?

I think all of the Leach talk is actually a moot point. I don't think he has any interest in coming here, nor do I think the university has contacted him.

Your final sentence is absolutely correct. As to Franchione, I have a feeling he might be your equivalent of Dennis Erickson at Idaho. Which is to say he would immediately greatly upgrade recruiting and increase season ticket sales but having gotten back into coaching then leave at the first opportunity for a higher-level gig. But would that necessarily be bad? Erickson's successor used a bunch of those recruits, particularly QB Nathan Enderle, to win a bowl game last year. I think Idaho is destined to fall off considerably because Robb Akey is merely mediocre but to me the key would be to know that Franchione would leave after a couple years and have a young up-and-comer waiting in the wings to take over the reins when he does.

Boise: They're where they are because of a much better batting average in hiring coaches than is true anywhere else I can think of. Houston Nutt (very good), Dirk Koetter (very good), Dan Hawkins (a good caretaker) and Chris Petersen (a GREAT coach). I'm not sure anybody can replicate that.

Utah: For a decade or so they had Ron McBride at the helm, a very good recruiter but a terrible game day coach. When they dumped McBride in favor of a Hall of Famer to be, Urban Meyer, they had the perfect storm for instant success. They then simply had to take Meyer's advice and promote one of his coordinators. To become another Utah, you would need to hire a McBride at this point.

TCU: Has a long history of football success, including in the old SWC, which was one of the top conferences in the country back in the day. One of the greatest players in history, Sammy Baugh, was a Horned Frogs. Plus although the school is small, from what I hear they have a solid core of old money, big bucks alumni who donate mucho dinero. So no offense meant but that is apples and oranges.

USF: They hit the motherload in gaining admission to an AQ conference in a very short period of time. It's a lot easier to win when you're getting a share of BCS money every year like clockwork. Which is why I'm not quite as enamored of Jim Leavitt as others may be. But maybe he's great, I don't really know. The only thing I would say is I think THIS is the program you guys should try to emulate. UNT is about to be very similar to the USF of 15 years ago or so. Meaning a very large student population located in a state with a bunch of HS football talent and a new on-campus stadium to play in. As I've said, you could become a very good candidate for admission to the MWC, which is on the cusp of gaining AQ status if TCU doesn't bolt for the Big East. However, hiring high school coaches to head up your program? My guess is that must have been very hotly debated on this board at the time. At least I would hope that it was.

Ibleedgreen · November 11, 2010

What Emmitt said...YES!!

rcade · November 11, 2010

USF: They hit the motherload in gaining admission to an AQ conference in a very short period of time. It's a lot easier to win when you're getting a share of BCS money every year like clockwork. Which is why I'm not quite as enamored of Jim Leavitt as others may be.

There's a flaw in your logic here. They weren't getting Big East money until 2005, eight years after Leavitt began the program.

SleepingGiantsFan · November 11, 2010

There's a flaw in your logic here. They weren't getting Big East money until 2005, eight years after Leavitt began the program.

So noted. As I said, I'm not that knowledgeable about Leavitt and he could very well be a very good choice for you guys. At this point he sure seems to me to be much more qualified than Canales. I also like the fact that like SDSU's Steve Fisher, he has had success at a higher level program and was fired for political reasons rather than a failure to win.

MizzouTigers · November 11, 2010

How exactly did Bob Stull run a program into the ground that was already run into the ground. His predecessor, Woody Widenhofer, was 12-31-1 in the four years before Stull was hired. The program had already had five consecutive losing seasons when Stull was hired.

The coach before Widenhofer, Warren Power, had a .579 winning percentage (46-33-3). Widenhofer took over and led the program with a .284 winning percentage. Stull, had a .290 winning percentage.

Widenhofer ran Missouri into the ground, not Stull. Stull simply couldn't revive Widenhofer's wreck.

Stull had engineered two season turnarounds at both Massachusetts and UTEP. He led UTEP to the only 10-win season in their history.

The Big 8 in the late 80s with Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Colorado as legitimate national powers is a different ball game than what he'd seen at UMass and UTEP. But, to blame him to the demise of Mizzou in the 80s is asinine.

We know you like Jim Leavitt, but don't lie about the kind of coach Bob Stull was. He was the offensive coordinator for some of Washington's best programs, with five 10 wins seasons while he assisted there.

He was also on James' staff at Kent State, where they were the last coaching staff to lead the Golden Flashes to winning seasons in three consecutive seasons; and, to the only bowl game in the school's history.

While with Washington, the Huskies went to three Rose Bowl, beating Michigan and Iowa (led by Hayden Fry). They also beat Texas in a bowl game with Stull calling the shots on offense.

Stull is currently UTEP's athletic director. His tenure at Missouri is the only blip on his resume, but he in no way "ran it into the ground." Bob Stull is a solid football guy and always was. He inherited a mess at Missouri. Many coaches failed during the power era of the 80s Nebraska-Oklahoma-Colorado. But, Stull sure as hell wasn't the reason Missouri was down.

Warren Powers is actually the coach that ran the program into the ground once he ran out of talent that was recruited by Al Onofrio and left the proverbial cupboard bare. To compound that problem Chancellor Barbara Uehling decided to form a committee to conduct the coaching search, rigidly follow EEOC guidelines and drug the process out so long several of the candidates withdrew from the search. As a result Woody was not hired until sometime in January shortly before signing day and all the top recruits were already committed. He had to go out and get what few recruits he could to de-commit from other schools and instead come to Missouri. At that time Missouri had woefully neglected the facilities for years and had the absolute worst in the Big 8 Conference (except for Kansas State) and perhaps in the entire nation. In the four years Woody was there he worked under three different athletic directors and two chancellors, so he never got any administration support. The second chancellor, Haskell Monroe, arrived from UTEP and decided from the get-go he was going to fire Woody and bring in his fair haired golden boy football genius Bob Stull from UTEP as well. It is without question Stull failed miserably in his five years at Mizzou in spite of a big increase in budget and improvement in facilities. Stull never coached again and Haskell Monroe moved on with a little bit of urging.

PlummMeanGreen · November 12, 2010

$400-$500K isn't even close to getting us a big name coach. That wouldn't even beat the average salary for a HC in CUSA. If that is all we are willing to spend, we better snatch up Canales up immediately.

You know there are 2 sources working with all this happening now

(1) Many times, it's GoMeanGreen.com urban tale groupies (as another alum from a big time school told me he calls theirs on his alma mater's message board) repeating things so many times over and over that they become gospel truth and whatever the subject each all but takes on a life of their own or...

(2) Whatever leaks out of some real source on campus from legitimate sources.

What I have heard not knowing if comes from the above #1 or #2 has said that UNT powers could come up with $600,000 for a new HFC and a million to spread among a new assistant football staff which (if true) might raise the top to bottom quality of that group's quality; although we may very well have 2 or 3 assistants now that might fit into whatever new system we end up with whoever the new HFC turns out to be.

Edited November 12, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

Newfan · November 12, 2010

Everyone knows what the program has. The question is can Canales go out and get what the program doesn't have...bigger and better talent as well as better coaches?

Assistant Coaches - key!!! Wonder who Canales is talking to