A Valid Question

stebo · November 7, 2010

I understand the argument that we cann afford to gamble with this hire... but I cannot think of a single example of a lower level school (WAC, MAC, Belt, etc..) hiring a "big time" coach and doing so well that they elevated the school. What model are we wanting to follow? Schnelly at FAU? I suppose that Mike Price has done "ok" down at UTEP. And I suppose you could argue that O'Leary has seen some success at UCF. But the BEST mid-major teams find very energetic coordinators that are HUNGRY and let them work their buns off.

Let's go over some success stories... Boise - they had Hawkins, Koetter, and now Peterson. None of those coaches were "big name coaches" when they were hired... they have scheduled to help the coaches and that is why they have remained sucessful (in my opinion). Look at TCU, they brought in Frnachione from New Mexico, that is what turned them around from an 0-12 season - he was not a high profile hire at the time - New Mexico was just a crappy WAC 16 school back then. Fran turned them around and he handed it off to Gary Patterson. By the way - when that handoff occurred, the TCU fans were up in arms because they wanted a "high profile coach" to replace Fran. The AD knew better. June Jones - after being a loser with the Chargers, he had success in Hawaii (his alma mater) by playing a very weak schedule (much like Boise). He also had PASSION for the school because it was his alma mater. Jones has done a good job of elevating SMU; but they were rock bottom and are far from being world beaters. After a great last year - this year they are back to struggling... They are right on the bubble for bowl eligibility - maybe they will make one, maybe not. We shall see. At $2 million a year, I think that the jury is still out on his success.

I guess that the point I am making is that I do not know of a precedent for a "big name" coach to come to a school like North Texas and do exceptionally well. Some of them have had acceptable outcomes; but I can think of plenty of examples of coaches that are unknown (but solid) coaches that come in, work HARD, and elevate the programs that hired them.

I keep seeing people say that we should hire either a big name coach OR hire a sucessful coordinator from an auto-bid BCS school. How about a sucessful Offensive Coordinator from the Big East? Our interim head coach coached a team that reached as high as #2 in the BCS rankings while at South Florida. Now saying that I have chosen Chico - because this is RV's choice to make, not mine. But I think it is a possibility that we have what we "need" right here already. He might be the big name hire that we want. Think about this seriously, if Chico was not at NT right now - but was still out of work (like all of these other candidates that are being tossed around - every name that I have seen are unemployed coaches) - would we consider him even more so? I think we would. I think that it is very possible that he could be the big name hire that we need.

GrandGreen · November 7, 2010

I understand the argument that we cann afford to gamble with this hire... but I cannot think of a single example of a lower level school (WAC, MAC, Belt, etc..) hiring a "big time" coach and doing so well that they elevated the school. What model are we wanting to follow? Schnelly at FAU? I suppose that Mike Price has done "ok" down at UTEP. And I suppose you could argue that O'Leary has seen some success at UCF. But the BEST mid-major teams find very energetic coordinators that are HUNGRY and let them work their buns off.

Let's go over some success stories... Boise - they had Hawkins, Koetter, and now Peterson. None of those coaches were "big name coaches" when they were hired... they have scheduled to help the coaches and that is why they have remained sucessful (in my opinion). Look at TCU, they brought in Frnachione from New Mexico, that is what turned them around from an 0-12 season - he was not a high profile hire at the time - New Mexico was just a crappy WAC 16 school back then. Fran turned them around and he handed it off to Gary Patterson. By the way - when that handoff occurred, the TCU fans were up in arms because they wanted a "high profile coach" to replace Fran. The AD knew better. June Jones - after being a loser with the Chargers, he had success in Hawaii (his alma mater) by playing a very weak schedule (much like Boise). He also had PASSION for the school because it was his alma mater. Jones has done a good job of elevating SMU; but they were rock bottom and are far from being world beaters. After a great last year - this year they are back to struggling... They are right on the bubble for bowl eligibility - maybe they will make one, maybe not. We shall see. At $2 million a year, I think that the jury is still out on his success.

I guess that the point I am making is that I do not know of a precedent for a "big name" coach to come to a school like North Texas and do exceptionally well. Some of them have had acceptable outcomes; but I can think of plenty of examples of coaches that are unknown (but solid) coaches that come in, work HARD, and elevate the programs that hired them.

I keep seeing people say that we should hire either a big name coach OR hire a sucessful coordinator from an auto-bid BCS school. How about a sucessful Offensive Coordinator from the Big East? Our interim head coach coached a team that reached as high as #2 in the BCS rankings while at South Florida. Now saying that I have chosen Chico - because this is RV's choice to make, not mine. But I think it is a possibility that we have what we "need" right here already. He might be the big name hire that we want. Think about this seriously, if Chico was not at NT right now - but was still out of work (like all of these other candidates that are being tossed around - every name that I have seen are unemployed coaches) - would we consider him even more so? I think we would. I think that it is very possible that he could be the big name hire that we need.

Ugh, SMU for one small example.

TheColonyEagle · November 7, 2010

Very well said Stebo.

Totally agree.

DeepGreen · November 7, 2010

I like Canales but the jury is still out on him. No doubt he's done some good.

That being said, if I'm bringing in a coordinator from "big time U", I want it to be a defensive coordinator.

stebo · November 7, 2010

Ugh, SMU for one small example.

Ok, but Jones is in year 4 now. They did win 7 games last year but did not win their conference. They went 1-11 in Year 2. They went 1-11 in Year 1. This year they are 5-5. That is a four year record of 14-32 in the regular season, no conference championships and 1 bowl visit/win. Is that the model we want to emulate?

Pen Yan Fan · November 7, 2010

Ok, but Jones is in year 4 now. They did win 7 games last year but did not win their conference. They went 1-11 in Year 2. They went 1-11 in Year 1. This year they are 5-5. That is a four year record of 14-32 in the regular season, no conference championships and 1 bowl visit/win. Is that the model we want to emulate?

Jones is only in his 3rd season. He is 13 - 10 the last two seasons. Please get facts straight if you are going to use them in a debate.

UNTcrazy727 · November 7, 2010

He's only in his 3rd year with an overall record of 14-21 with a 5-5 record this year. So far SMU hasen't got their moneys worth out of Jones, but time will tell...

NT03 · November 7, 2010

Ok, but Jones is in year 4 now. They did win 7 games last year but did not win their conference. They went 1-11 in Year 2. They went 1-11 in Year 1. This year they are 5-5. That is a four year record of 14-32 in the regular season, no conference championships and 1 bowl visit/win. Is that the model we want to emulate?

Competing for bowl games every year ? Yes

and btw Jones is only in his 3rd year

Edited November 7, 2010 by NT03

stebo · November 7, 2010

My bad, for some reason I thought that Dodge and Jones were hired the same year. So over 3 years he is 1-11, 7-5, and 5-5. Total regular season record of 13-21. He has no conference championships, no has he played in the conference championship game, and has been to one bowl with one win.

The point remains the same. I can't think of an example of a big name coach that went to a lower level FBS school and had great success... but I can think of several small name coaches that had the passion to turn teams around and become national players (Patterson, Koetter, Hawkins, Peterson, etc..) Jones has done a respectable (but expensive) job - but not to the level of these other men.

Edited November 7, 2010 by stebo

gangrene · November 7, 2010

I don't know. How many other "lower level schools" coming off of six consecutive seasons of three wins or less have hired "big name" coaches prior to the season in which they will be opening a new stadium?

My point is our situation is unique and should be treated as such. We shouldn't be looking to pattern our decision based on what other schools may or may not have done. Personally, I believe we should hire a coach that has been a successful FBS HC because, quite frankly, it's more credible for recruits to believe that said head coach can be successful than it is to believe that North Texas football can be successful.

In addition to O'Leary, Frank Solich is doing pretty good at Ohio. Not a mid-major but in similar circumstances, Lou Holtz started the South Carolina revival and Steve Spurrier picked up where he left off.

TheTastyGreek · November 7, 2010

I can't think of an example of a big name coach that went to a lower level FBS school and had great success...

If June Jones isn't a workable example, how about Frank Solich? George O'Leary? Hell, in our own conference, Howard Schnellenberger has done quite well for himself at FAU. Above .500 in D-1, almost 2 out of 3 in conference, and two bowl wins with a startup program.

And those are just three active ones I can think of off the top of my head.

I think part of the reason you can't remember many examples is that a lot of coaches decide to retire rather than drop back down the ladder. Also, it seems like the shelf life of coaches is a lot shorter than it used to be and a lot of the guys who make names for themselves still end up on a short leash our out the door entirely after one or two not-quite-stellar years.

If you're Fran or Leavitt, and you're not even 60 (or 55, in Leavitt's case)... And football is something you love and desperately want to get back to, but the fifty or sixty BCS jobs are probably never going to be open for you unless you work your way back up to them... It's a different employment universe than what was out there even 10-20 years ago.

And I don't think it's fair to compare rebuilding programs to situations like TCU or Boise under successor coaches where the guy was already there and building from a foundation of success.

GreenMachine · November 8, 2010

He's only in his 3rd year with an overall record of 14-21 with a 5-5 record this year. So far SMU hasen't got their moneys worth out of Jones, but time will tell...

I agree but I don't believe that June Jones was a big name hire. He came from the WAC after coaching some very good Hawaii teams which by the way is something like 6-3 this year.

stebo · November 8, 2010

I am (by no means) a football expert. I asked the question with a willingness to learn from all of you. I don't have an agenda in this, Harry summed up our situation better than i could. This is the biggest investment that NT has ever made for athletics and we have one chance to get it right. I put his opinion over most fans and tend to agree with him. I just question if Chico would be looked at differently if he didn't work for Todd Dodge for a half season. If he was just another available, out of work candidate, I think we would be having a different conversation about him.

UNTLifer · November 8, 2010

TTG,with all due respect, let's look at two examples of two successful schools similar to us. Boise State and TCU were both not very successful programs.

BSU had Dirk Koetter, who was an unknown, start the turnaround. He was hired away by Arizona State, I believe. Hawkins was moved up to HC and continued BSU's rise, and he was hired away by Colorado and Peterson took over and has elevated their program to where it is today. Koetter, Hawkins and Peterson were all unknowns with little to no FCS HC experience.

TCU hired Fran from New Mexico. TCU's only recent success was under Wacker. Other than that, they were a struggling program. Fran started the turnaround and left for greener pastures. Patterson was elevated to HC and many were questioning the hire. Look where they are now.

There is not a coach out there with HC experience, that would consider us, that excites me. Canales has taken on a downtrodden program with players that have known nothing but losing and changed that attitude in 3 weeks, has the team playing better than anyone can remember, is passionate about being here and building the program, has paid his dues as an assistant in college and the pros, has been a part of building a program from scratch, and has the fire to succeed. Who knows, he might become another Patterson and fall in love with Denton and NT and stay for the duration. To me, he is no more a risky hire than the others that have been discussed to no end on here.

Fran? I am good friends with many A&M alums who have nothing good to say about the man. Plus, he has been passed over for other positions recently and is typically just in it for Fran. No thanks.

Leach: Never would consider NT, ever. Plus, he is all about himself.

Levitt: In a lawsuit, as is Leach, with his previous employer, and while he has built a program, is a wildcard to me. Too much baggage.

If NT continues playing as they have the past two weeks, I'd be more than happy if Canales stays.

HoustonEagle · November 8, 2010

TTG,with all due respect, let's look at two examples of two successful schools similar to us. Boise State and TCU were both not very successful programs.

BSU had Dirk Koetter, who was an unknown, start the turnaround. He was hired away by Arizona State, I believe. Hawkins was moved up to HC and continued BSU's rise, and he was hired away by Colorado and Peterson took over and has elevated their program to where it is today. Koetter, Hawkins and Peterson were all unknowns with little to no FCS HC experience.

TCU hired Fran from New Mexico. TCU's only recent success was under Wacker. Other than that, they were a struggling program. Fran started the turnaround and left for greener pastures. Patterson was elevated to HC and many were questioning the hire. Look where they are now.

There is not a coach out there with HC experience, that would consider us, that excites me. Canales has taken on a downtrodden program with players that have known nothing but losing and changed that attitude in 3 weeks, has the team playing better than anyone can remember, is passionate about being here and building the program, has paid his dues as an assistant in college and the pros, has been a part of building a program from scratch, and has the fire to succeed. Who knows, he might become another Patterson and fall in love with Denton and NT and stay for the duration. To me, he is no more a risky hire than the others that have been discussed to no end on here.

Fran? I am good friends with many A&M alums who have nothing good to say about the man. Plus, he has been passed over for other positions recently and is typically just in it for Fran. No thanks.

Leach: Never would consider NT, ever. Plus, he is all about himself.

Levitt: In a lawsuit, as is Leach, with his previous employer, and while he has built a program, is a wildcard to me. Too much baggage.

If NT continues playing as they have the past two weeks, I'd be more than happy if Canales stays.

This post pretty much sums up where my mind is at currently.

Edited November 8, 2010 by HoustonEagle

GreenN'walinsVet · November 8, 2010

Here is my question? If Dodge had been fired at the end of last year and Canales would have been hired as the HC to begin the year would people have been upset with us hiring a proven coordinator from a good BCS school? My guess is not much. So the only reason I can come up with for the dislike is that he spent 7 games working under Dodge before getting the chance to lead this program.

Green92 · November 8, 2010

Here is my question? If Dodge had been fired at the end of last year and Canales would have been hired as the HC to begin the year would people have been upset with us hiring a proven coordinator from a good BCS school? My guess is not much. So the only reason I can come up with for the dislike is that he spent 7 games working under Dodge before getting the chance to lead this program.

I disagree. I think the expectation would have been just as high at the beginning of the season as now.

TheTastyGreek · November 8, 2010

TTG,with all due respect, let's look at two examples of two successful schools similar to us. Boise State and TCU were both not very successful programs.

Just to clarify, I mean that neither Patterson nor any of the mentioned Boise State coaches (Koetter, Hawkins, and Petersen) took over a program that was "down" in anything remotely resembling the sense that ours is.

Patterson inherited a team that was 10-1 when he took the reins. He's done a hell of a job for himself since then, but he didn't take over a program that was unsuccessful at the time he got the job.

At BSU, even Koetter took over a team that was just one game under .500 and only two years removed from a 7-4 record. Boise State has never had more than two losing seasons in a row, and they've only even had back-to-back losing seasons twice in program history.

In fact, Boise State has only had 5 total losing seasons in 43 years of football. 1986, 1992, and 1997 (all just one game below .500), and 1993 and 1996.

I'm not opposed to Canales getting this job under the right circumstances, as I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum earlier today. But the success of Patterson/Hawkins/Petersen (or even Koetter, in my opinion) doesn't have much commonality (or relevance, in my opinion) with the hiring situation we're facing right now.

Cr1028 · November 8, 2010

My #1 and only major concern is having a coach come here looking at our job as a step down. He takes the job because he couldn't get on anywhere else. I can't see someone like that putting their full heart and effort into our program.

I just can't see Leach or Fran(maybe even Leavitt) coming here and bleeding Mean Green after coaching at Big 12 programs with all the facilities, recruits, and BCS dollars that go with those positions. They would become like Darrell Dickey even though we would actually have fantastic facilities.

GrandGreen · November 8, 2010

I have a problem with this thread and many others that seem to want to debate the head coach origin more than the coach himself. History at NT as well as in general will illustrate that great coaches come from almost all backgrounds; assistant, smaller college programs, recently fired, from current staff, and experienced head coaches. NT's last hire was from one of the few along with never coached anywhere that have an almost non-existent success rate. One of Plum's posts enumerated all of recent hires except Fry as being failures. It definitely was not his purpose, but it illustrated how difficult it is to hire a star and how no path is sure. Tyler and Fry were fired hcs, both with a few great years. Simon was a journeyman assistant, Moore a promising assistant at Nebraska and Nelson & Dickey young coordinators at near by programs. Parker another failed high school experiment that actually did much better than Dodge.

There is one universal connections between all the aforementioned coaches at NT, they all had to work for substandard salaries and with substandard resources. Even Nelson whose career was primarily at the fc level was hired as a fb division coach as was Parker who was hired at the fc level but was supposed to lead NT back to big time football. That means that they came from a relatively limited pool of candidates. Although, not at the top of even non-AQ universities; NT has a lot more to offer this time around. A coaches salary structure that is not rock bottom but should be competitive with the majority of the non-AQ's, likewise highly competitive facilities at that level and most importantly a school administration that believes that NT's performance in athletes is an important part of the University mission to become one of the premier institutions. Perhaps within these parameters it will not take a miracle worker to be a success at NT.

NT can cast a wider net with better bait than it has ever had but the coaching decision is still paramount. It is in fact too important to limit to any one experience group of applicants, so it is imperative to look at the best individuals available. Charismatic young upward mobile young coaches, experienced and successful journeyman assistants, and guys with good head coaching background. NT needs that perfect combination of someone who has the fire and drive to build and sell a program but also the skill and experience to make it happen.

gangrene · November 8, 2010

I have a problem with this thread and many others that seem to want to debate the head coach origin more than the coach himself. History at NT as well as in general will illustrate that great coaches come from almost all backgrounds; assistant, smaller college programs, recently fired, from current staff, and experienced head coaches. NT's last hire was from one of the few along with never coached anywhere that have an almost non-existent success rate. One of Plum's posts enumerated all of recent hires except Fry as being failures. It definitely was not his purpose, but it illustrated how difficult it is to hire a star and how no path is sure. Tyler and Fry were fired hcs, both with a few great years. Simon was a journeyman assistant, Moore a promising assistant at Nebraska and Nelson & Dickey young coordinators at near by programs. Parker another failed high school experiment that actually did much better than Dodge.

There is one universal connections between all the aforementioned coaches at NT, they all had to work for substandard salaries and with substandard resources. Even Nelson whose career was primarily at the fc level was hired as a fb division coach as was Parker who was hired at the fc level but was supposed to lead NT back to big time football. That means that they came from a relatively limited pool of candidates. Although, not at the top of even non-AQ universities; NT has a lot more to offer this time around. A coaches salary structure that is not rock bottom but should be competitive with the majority of the non-AQ's, likewise highly competitive facilities at that level and most importantly a school administration that believes that NT's performance in athletes is an important part of the University mission to become one of the premier institutions. Perhaps within these parameters it will not take a miracle worker to be a success at NT.

NT can cast a wider net with better bait than it has ever had but the coaching decision is still paramount. It is in fact too important to limit to any one experience group of applicants, so it is imperative to look at the best individuals available. Charismatic young upward mobile young coaches, experienced and successful journeyman assistants, and guys with good head coaching background. NT needs that perfect combination of someone who has the fire and drive to build and sell a program but also the skill and experience to make it happen.

Very well put. +1 Let's not sell ourselves short this time.

wardly · November 8, 2010

I understand the argument that we cann afford to gamble with this hire... but I cannot think of a single example of a lower level school (WAC, MAC, Belt, etc..) hiring a "big time" coach and doing so well that they elevated the school. What model are we wanting to follow? Schnelly at FAU? I suppose that Mike Price has done "ok" down at UTEP. And I suppose you could argue that O'Leary has seen some success at UCF. But the BEST mid-major teams find very energetic coordinators that are HUNGRY and let them work their buns off.

Let's go over some success stories... Boise - they had Hawkins, Koetter, and now Peterson. None of those coaches were "big name coaches" when they were hired... they have scheduled to help the coaches and that is why they have remained sucessful (in my opinion). Look at TCU, they brought in Frnachione from New Mexico, that is what turned them around from an 0-12 season - he was not a high profile hire at the time - New Mexico was just a crappy WAC 16 school back then. Fran turned them around and he handed it off to Gary Patterson. By the way - when that handoff occurred, the TCU fans were up in arms because they wanted a "high profile coach" to replace Fran. The AD knew better. June Jones - after being a loser with the Chargers, he had success in Hawaii (his alma mater) by playing a very weak schedule (much like Boise). He also had PASSION for the school because it was his alma mater. Jones has done a good job of elevating SMU; but they were rock bottom and are far from being world beaters. After a great last year - this year they are back to struggling... They are right on the bubble for bowl eligibility - maybe they will make one, maybe not. We shall see. At $2 million a year, I think that the jury is still out on his success.

I guess that the point I am making is that I do not know of a precedent for a "big name" coach to come to a school like North Texas and do exceptionally well. Some of them have had acceptable outcomes; but I can think of plenty of examples of coaches that are unknown (but solid) coaches that come in, work HARD, and elevate the programs that hired them.

I keep seeing people say that we should hire either a big name coach OR hire a sucessful coordinator from an auto-bid BCS school. How about a sucessful Offensive Coordinator from the Big East? Our interim head coach coached a team that reached as high as #2 in the BCS rankings while at South Florida. Now saying that I have chosen Chico - because this is RV's choice to make, not mine. But I think it is a possibility that we have what we "need" right here already. He might be the big name hire that we want. Think about this seriously, if Chico was not at NT right now - but was still out of work (like all of these other candidates that are being tossed around - every name that I have seen are unemployed coaches) - would we consider him even more so? I think we would. I think that it is very possible that he could be the big name hire that we need.

good post!

MeanMag · November 8, 2010

TTG,with all due respect, let's look at two examples of two successful schools similar to us. Boise State and TCU were both not very successful programs.

BSU had Dirk Koetter, who was an unknown, start the turnaround. He was hired away by Arizona State, I believe. Hawkins was moved up to HC and continued BSU's rise, and he was hired away by Colorado and Peterson took over and has elevated their program to where it is today. Koetter, Hawkins and Peterson were all unknowns with little to no FCS HC experience.

TCU hired Fran from New Mexico. TCU's only recent success was under Wacker. Other than that, they were a struggling program. Fran started the turnaround and left for greener pastures. Patterson was elevated to HC and many were questioning the hire. Look where they are now.

There is not a coach out there with HC experience, that would consider us, that excites me. Canales has taken on a downtrodden program with players that have known nothing but losing and changed that attitude in 3 weeks, has the team playing better than anyone can remember, is passionate about being here and building the program, has paid his dues as an assistant in college and the pros, has been a part of building a program from scratch, and has the fire to succeed. Who knows, he might become another Patterson and fall in love with Denton and NT and stay for the duration. To me, he is no more a risky hire than the others that have been discussed to no end on here.

Fran? I am good friends with many A&M alums who have nothing good to say about the man. Plus, he has been passed over for other positions recently and is typically just in it for Fran. No thanks.

Leach: Never would consider NT, ever. Plus, he is all about himself.

Levitt: In a lawsuit, as is Leach, with his previous employer, and while he has built a program, is a wildcard to me. Too much baggage.

If NT continues playing as they have the past two weeks, I'd be more than happy if Canales stays.

There is some excellent discussion on this topic. After 2 weeks, I can't make a judgment on Canales yet. I do think he is a more than suitable candidate for the job, and that if we don't keep him, someone will be extremely happy to get him. Lucky for UNT, we get to try him out and continue the diligent search for a better candidate.

My question is, if we didn't intend for Canales to be an option, why did we hire him for OC when we knew the likely scenario would be Dodge leaving before the end of the year? Canales and UNT knew this season would be a possibility when they signed on the dotted line. Neither side should have signed in good faith if they didn't think that he was a man that could lead this team.

The fact is, fans will likely be skeptical of an unknown hire until proven otherwise and be let down by a big name hire when he wins less games than we all anticipated. Canales becomes less of an unknown this season, and our expectations get tempered if he is the man for the job. One thing is certain, however. We can't get any worse than the past few years, and he wants to be here. If Bower is brought in, and Canales doesn't get serious consideration, I am one angry alum.

UNTLifer · November 8, 2010

Just to clarify, I mean that neither Patterson nor any of the mentioned Boise State coaches (Koetter, Hawkins, and Petersen) took over a program that was "down" in anything remotely resembling the sense that ours is.

Patterson inherited a team that was 10-1 when he took the reins. He's done a hell of a job for himself since then, but he didn't take over a program that was unsuccessful at the time he got the job.

At BSU, even Koetter took over a team that was just one game under .500 and only two years removed from a 7-4 record. Boise State has never had more than two losing seasons in a row, and they've only even had back-to-back losing seasons twice in program history.

In fact, Boise State has only had 5 total losing seasons in 43 years of football. 1986, 1992, and 1997 (all just one game below .500), and 1993 and 1996.

I'm not opposed to Canales getting this job under the right circumstances, as I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum earlier today. But the success of Patterson/Hawkins/Petersen (or even Koetter, in my opinion) doesn't have much commonality (or relevance, in my opinion) with the hiring situation we're facing right now.

I think you misunderstood my post on the coaching candidates where I referred to Boise State and TCU. I mentioned in my post that Koetter was really the one to turn around BSU and Fran TCU. Outside of the Wacker years, TCU had never done much, nor had BSU prior to Koetter, and that is why I referenced these two schools as having succeeded without the benefit of a coach with prior HC experience. True, Fran came from NMU, but how good was that program? Their recent success came under the leadership of career assistants that had been moved up.

Let's face it, we aren't going to find someone that has been in a situation like our's.

Here's the line from my original post:

BSU had Dirk Koetter, who was an unknown, start the turnaround. He was hired away by Arizona State, I believe. Hawkins was moved up to HC and continued BSU's rise, and he was hired away by Colorado and Peterson took over and has elevated their program to where it is today. Koetter, Hawkins and Peterson were all unknowns with little to no FCS HC experience.

TCU hired Fran from New Mexico. TCU's only recent success was under Wacker. Other than that, they were a struggling program. Fran started the turnaround and left for greener pastures. Patterson was elevated to HC and many were questioning the hire. Look where they are now

BSU and TCU's success was very limited until Koetter and Fran, although I would argue that TCU's real and continued success has come under Patterson, an unknown and not a popular choice at the time of his hiring, since Fran was always looking for his next gig. Either way, finding a coach that has experience in what we are currently dealing with is like looking for a needle in a haystack considering the differences in every situation. Hire the right man that wants to be here.