And Some Want The Sbc Level Of Play As A

[oldguystudent]

Dude. I got to hang out with you on a Tuesday night!!!!

For everything a season, my friend.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Is it possible, whether Plumm agrees or not, that us "young gun" alums can want better and hope to see us move up the college football ladder...but wish to do so without belittling our current conference home, the teams of ours that won in our current conference home, and dont need the constant visit from the ghost of Christmas past to do it.

I get it. Some of our older alums were around for the Fry days. Good for you. I used to hook up with some pretty decent tail in college. You'll never see me telling my wife that I'm currently settling for the "same ol' mediocrity" and yearn for the days of old.

OK, I think it will soon be time to talk re-alignment.

SBC? I felt like we were being told that there would be an orphanage for about 8 or 9 misplaced/displaced orphans (of which we were one) when that league was formed in 2000

Of course, it was the only orphanage who'd have us as a result of most of the post-Fry years SilverEagle refers to of our (non-stop) trying to do the un'Fry sorta' thing in Denton. Can we old gun alums merely dream of what could have been had our mindset for the last 30 or so years would have been the same as former conference-mate Boise State who went north (so to speak) while we went south--I know, Boise is another taboo subject with some, too.

I think most of us know how the "un-Fry" experiment turned out in Denton and I choose not argue with those who can't see or understand the difference. I know if I were around 25-30 years of age today how I would probably not even believe most the Fry stories in light of what I would have been observing of late. In fact, if in that age group I might feel even a bit cheated as I would compare the 2 eras--180 degrees opposite of the other.

Next subject...this train ain't going nowhere fast.

GMG!

Edited November 4, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[FirefightnRick]

If you want an honest answer to that question, I asked that we get back to the subject at hand, tax codes, not football or national election scoreboards.

The better response to end the Big XII discussion and get back to tax codes would have been when someone first mentioned "The Big XII" simply state...."Who Cares, the 3rd ranked TCU Horned Frogs aren't in the Big Twelve".

Serve em up a crap sandwich and they'll leave the table.

Rick

[SilverEagle]

Is it possible, whether Plumm agrees or not, that us "young gun" alums can want better and hope to see us move up the college football ladder...but wish to do so without belittling our current conference home, the teams of ours that won in our current conference home, and dont need the constant visit from the ghost of Christmas past to do it.

I get it. Some of our older alums were around for the Fry days. Good for you. I used to hook up with some pretty decent tail in college. You'll never see me telling my wife that I'm currently settling for the "same ol' mediocrity" and yearn for the days of old.

For me, the Fry experience has nothing to do with our past or present conference affiliation...or lack thereof. It has to do with the only Coach/AD who ever really "got us", understood that it was a cultural thing, and took the appropriate steps to turn things around. This was not only on the field, but on campus, and in the community.

From my perspective, if the current "young guns" (geezz I hate that term) are interested in getting things turned around at North Texas, you don't have to re-invent the wheel. It's been done (or rather started and undone) before. It was starting to work before and there is no reason why it won't work now.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

I can't agree with this more.

Dominate the Belt like everyone's favorite comparison, Boise St. is dominating their conference, then we can talk about upgrading barometers to the non-mercury, all-digital barometer.

I disgagree.

If this is the case then why not drop down to Div II (or whatever it is) so we can win? If it is solely about winning that gets everyone on board then this should work right??

Winning is important but almost equally as important is the quality of those wins.

Because we're sucking in the SBC I refuse to use it as a barometer because as soon as we start winning we become content...until, of course, we start losing again.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I disgagree.

If this is the case then why not drop down to Div II (or whatever it is) so we can win? If it is solely about winning that gets everyone on board then this should work right??

Winning is important but almost equally as important is the quality of those wins.

Because we're sucking in the SBC I refuse to use it as a barometer because as soon as we start winning we become content...until, of course, we start losing again.

I'm not saying that. I think I would rather lose every game every year in 1-a/FBS (think Eastern Michigan) than go back to 1-aa/FCS again.

I think from where we are right now, a win against TROY would be a quality win. Do you disagree with that?

Now, once we start beating everyone in the SBC again (because this WILL happen), creeping into the top 25 polls and such, then we can start talking about moving conferences and all of that stuff.

Speak for yourself when becoming content if we win in the SBC. I would want to push for bigger and better things if we can win here consistently. The key word is consistently. Look at TCU, they're beating everyone pretty consistently now. In doing so, they're garnering interest from the Big East. Maybe they'll get an invite? Do you think they started out when Gary Patterson took over thinking, "What can we do to get to the Big East? Since, barometrically, we think we're on par with the Pitt's of the college football world." No. They took it a game at a time and built up a winner in the MWC. The rest will take care of itself for them.

I know the University of North Texas can do the same thing.

[Green Mean]

Reality check. There are like 200 people in the world that care about UNT football. I'm sitting in Tax Research class last night, and the class literally gets interrupted for 30 minutes as the professor and students engage in discussion regarding the state of the Big XII. I mention that UNT won a game last weekend, and they laugh, utter a collective "pfft!" and continue on with the Big XII talk.

I'm sure it would be fantastic for UNT to be battling it out with OU for the Big XII South championship, but it's not gonna happen until a lot more people care, and a lot more people aren't gonna care until there are a lot more wins on the table. Progress via stepping stones, man. UNT was at the top of the Sun Belt heap once, and stalled. Until UNT returns to that pedestal and brings several thousand check writing fans with it, it's downright delusional to be demanding performance comparisons to big AQ programs today.

Go ahead and cite Boise all you want, but the reality of their program is that they've been wildly successful at all levels since their days as a junior college, steadily progressing up the ranks, and they're not fighting with bandwagon Longhorn/ATM/OU/Tech fans for support. They're battling it out with the Kibbie Dome and acres and acres of potatoes!

Edit: Before someone goes and tallies the number of Mean Green club members or attendance totals, hyperbole was intended.

This is the harsh reality we face. No one really cares about UNT in general much less a 7 win total for the last 4 years in football. You have to give fans, alums, students reasons to come to games and support us. It is a two way street but the real job comes form the school and administration because if they won't try to nut up in athletics and still expect people to give a damn then that will never work. I think we are getting better in all of those things and it is just a matter of dishing out money for a new coaching staff and get back to winning the Belt. Winning will cure just about everything so lets just win and take it from there.

[oldschoollefty]

It's November and we have a better record than the Cowboys.

Does that mean we can gain admission to the NFC East?

If that's the case, to hell with CUSA, MWC and the Big XII (-2)

[Rudy]

Does that mean we can gain admission to the NFC East?

If that's the case, to hell with CUSA, MWC and the Big XII (-2)

We don't pay our players enough.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Reality check. There are like 200 people in the world that care about UNT football.

I disagree... There were about 24,000 who showed at the worst college football stadium in the FBS for the Rice game with a program that has had 6 losing seasons in a row.

Can you imagine what happens at UNT with a coach with name ID that excites even the local or DFW area casual fans; a coach with FBS experience and known as a good recruiter in Texas does for this program?

Could 24,000 easily become Standing-Room-Only at our new stadium next September as we open with the Houston Cougars?

I think most would agree that we do have a base of fans from which to build and make much larger in Mean Green Country. It could be most fun to watch it grow and if we have all the right personnel ducks in a row that will only make it grow even quicker.

GMG!

[Arkstfan]

This is what I keep trying to get stAte fans to understand. It's an old saying, and Coach Brady loves to cite even more than I do (and I use it often).

YOU GET WHAT YOU TOLERATE

People can sit around and cry like a bunch of babies about what they don't have (conference affiliation, 100 yard indoor practice fields, three home uniforms, big recruiting budgets etc) or they can raise expectations and focus on what they have that they can exploit for success.

As long as people think a great season is 7-4 or 8-5, they won't be that upset with a 6-6 season. If a 6-6 isn't that bad, then 5-7 was just a couple breaks away.

I do not believe that it is outside the capability of several Sun Belt teams to be 12 or better in the BCS rankings if they exploit their strengths. Ball State with a crappy schedule, a 40 year old stadium that doesn't even seat 30,000 was one win from being at that point. They are 20 minutes closer to Indianapolis than ASU is to Memphis, similar MSA population, located in a rural area. Look around the Sun Belt and everyone in the league has several advantages over Ball State.

Name me one school in the Sun Belt that would have a high official say "Our goal is to be in the BCS in four years". Most CUSA AD's and presidents wouldn't go on record saying that. Who is willing to stand up and be accountable for saying "Our goal is to be in the final top 25 within four years."

The boldest statements I've heard so far was the ASU chancellor saying "Why can't we be like Memphis in basketball" and John Brady saying "While I am here, we will go to an NCAA Tournament and win a game. I don't see any reason we can't have a shot to go to a Final Four like George Mason did."

Until a school sets higher goals than win the conference or earn the auto berth to the NCAA Tournament, the results WILL NOT CHANGE.

When the NCAA raised academic standards more than one coach said the change would knock a lot of good players out, what happened was that when kids understood what was required to play Division I ball, most of them rose to the challenge.

I wonder if Nevada football would be ranked today if not for the challenge of chasing Boise after they set such a high standard. Someone has to rise up and set the standard.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Arkstfan

[GrandGreen]

The answer to NT football dilemma is to win, in the Belt or elsewhere. The Belt has been very good to NT, it is certainly not a premier conference but with NT generally stinking it up in football the last six years; NT should not complain. IMO the Belt will be significantly better than the reconstituted WAC and has been on par with the MAC for several years, and the MWC and CUSA are not really substantially better. Being in the Belt, hurts recruiting in Texas because NT is the lone team; but TCU has been able to manage that in the MWC because they are very good. It would be nice to be in a conference with your peers, and IMO that would be Tech, Houston, UTEP and in time perhaps UTSA and TSSM. Similar size schools with close academics and missions.

NT immediate goal should be to dominate the Belt. I do believe that NT has the resources, size and location and hopefully now the will to do just that. In reality now, NT has two bad programs: football and WBB and the running sports stuck on mediocrity. RV and staff has got volleyball, swimming, tennis, softball, MBB and golf all on an upward trajectory. Soccer long a strength is also in the top portion of the conference.

New conference opportunities will come and I really think NT is already in a very positive position. The private dominated Western CUSA may have unfavorable odds for NT entrance, but if NT continues to build, better things will come.

[PlummMeanGreen]

This is what I keep trying to get stAte fans to understand. It's an old saying, and Coach Brady loves to cite even more than I do (and I use it often).

YOU GET WHAT YOU TOLERATE

People can sit around and cry like a bunch of babies about what they don't have (conference affiliation, 100 yard indoor practice fields, three home uniforms, big recruiting budgets etc) or they can raise expectations and focus on what they have that they can exploit for success.

As long as people think a great season is 7-4 or 8-5, they won't be that upset with a 6-6 season. If a 6-6 isn't that bad, then 5-7 was just a couple breaks away.

I do not believe that it is outside the capability of several Sun Belt teams to be 12 or better in the BCS rankings if they exploit their strengths. Ball State with a crappy schedule, a 40 year old stadium that doesn't even seat 30,000 was one win from being at that point. They are 20 minutes closer to Indianapolis than ASU is to Memphis, similar MSA population, located in a rural area. Look around the Sun Belt and everyone in the league has several advantages over Ball State.

Name me one school in the Sun Belt that would have a high official say "Our goal is to be in the BCS in four years". Most CUSA AD's and presidents wouldn't go on record saying that. Who is willing to stand up and be accountable for saying "Our goal is to be in the final top 25 within four years."

The boldest statements I've heard so far was the ASU chancellor saying "Why can't we be like Memphis in basketball" and John Brady saying "While I am here, we will go to an NCAA Tournament and win a game. I don't see any reason we can't have a shot to go to a Final Four like George Mason did."

Until a school sets higher goals than win the conference or earn the auto berth to the NCAA Tournament, the results WILL NOT CHANGE.

When the NCAA raised academic standards more than one coach said the change would knock a lot of good players out, what happened was that when kids understood what was required to play Division I ball, most of them rose to the challenge.

I wonder if Nevada football would be ranked today if not for the challenge of chasing Boise after they set such a high standard. Someone has to rise up and set the standard.

Someone has to rise up and set the standard.

I thought it might be Troy at one time until they seemed to have gotten settled down in the 'Belt with what seems to be our 'Belt ways. After all, they had beaten #19 Missouri to debut their new stadium on national television. A game many of us on the forum watched with a bit of disbelief?

Somehow, the tide has to rise high in the SBC harbor whereas we all rise with it. Of course, we prefer it be North Texas who causes such a tide and ArkStFan would obviously want it to be his alma mater but the fact still remains.........Someone? Anyone?

Who'd ever thunk it would be a WAC school in a BCS bowl who would capture the hearts of many college football fans in the USA when Boise State beat the Sooners a few years ago.

GMG!

Edited November 5, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[CMJ]

That #19 Missouri team that Troy defeated went on to have a losing record if I recall correctly. Having it mentioned all the time is kind of ignoring the fact that it was shown to be fool's gold within a few weeks.

Edited November 4, 2010 by CMJ

[SilverEagle]

This is what I keep trying to get stAte fans to understand. It's an old saying, and Coach Brady loves to cite even more than I do (and I use it often).

YOU GET WHAT YOU TOLERATE

People can sit around and cry like a bunch of babies about what they don't have (conference affiliation, 100 yard indoor practice fields, three home uniforms, big recruiting budgets etc) or they can raise expectations and focus on what they have that they can exploit for success.

As long as people think a great season is 7-4 or 8-5, they won't be that upset with a 6-6 season. If a 6-6 isn't that bad, then 5-7 was just a couple breaks away.

Until a school sets higher goals than win the conference or earn the auto berth to the NCAA Tournament, the results WILL NOT CHANGE.

When the NCAA raised academic standards more than one coach said the change would knock a lot of good players out, what happened was that when kids understood what was required to play Division I ball, most of them rose to the challenge.

I wonder if Nevada football would be ranked today if not for the challenge of chasing Boise after they set such a high standard. Someone has to rise up and set the standard.

To me, Coach Canales seems to at least GET this concept. In his post-game interview he talked about going into every game with the attitude that he (and the team) will win it....no matter who the opponent is. Sounds like a great start to me.

We haven't had that attitude in a VERY LONG TIME.

[Arkstfan]

To me, Coach Canales seems to at least GET this concept. In his post-game interview he talked about going into every game with the attitude that he (and the team) will win it....no matter who the opponent is. Sounds like a great start to me.

We haven't had that attitude in a VERY LONG TIME.

Back when John Bobo was coach at ASU (Big West era, UNT was still in I-AA) he started moaning and groaning frequently about money games. A friend of mine who played in the 50's had been a big fan of John, who was one of the most likable people to ever be a I-A coach, was livid. He finally called him (this guy was not a huge donor) and told him he didn't care what he what he told his wife, his mother or his next door neighbor but never wanted hear him complain about any game being too tough publicly. The players read the paper and watch TV and if they see their coach doesn't think they can win, they aren't going to think they can win. Funny thing is early in his time at ASU he went into Starkville with a terrible terrible terrible team tied the Bulldogs, later in the season Miss.St and Arkansas tied so we got some joy from that, but you don't win when you don't expect that you can win.

[SilverEagle]

Back when John Bobo was coach at ASU (Big West era, UNT was still in I-AA) he started moaning and groaning frequently about money games. A friend of mine who played in the 50's had been a big fan of John, who was one of the most likable people to ever be a I-A coach, was livid. He finally called him (this guy was not a huge donor) and told him he didn't care what he what he told his wife, his mother or his next door neighbor but never wanted hear him complain about any game being too tough publicly. The players read the paper and watch TV and if they see their coach doesn't think they can win, they aren't going to think they can win. Funny thing is early in his time at ASU he went into Starkville with a terrible terrible terrible team tied the Bulldogs, later in the season Miss.St and Arkansas tied so we got some joy from that, but you don't win when you don't expect that you can win.

This.

I'll never forget the official gathering at the Hotel in Austin right before our last game there under DD. Our new President was in attendance and one of the first things that DD said in his remarks to the fans was "I sure hope that when Dr. B looks up at the scoreboard at the end of the game, she remembers how much we are making off this game". If there was any way that I could have gotten a refund on my tickets, I would have gone home at that moment.

[Graddean]

Everybody is right in some sense. We certainly do need to have high aspirations. With that said our goals should be a series of reachable but ever increasing goals. As long as we are in the Sun Belt, it makes sense that our first goal is to dominate the conference we are in. Scheduling winnable games should also be part of our plan. Frank Broyles was often criticized for playing the Sisters of the Poor in non-conference games. Supposedly, his response was "In December, no one remembers who you played only if you won or lost.

What about Vandy instead of Alabama. The money might not be as good, but a chance to win over an SEC school or Iowa State instead of Texas or OU with a chance to win over a Big XII or whatever the conference may be called. What we need is a real plan to assist the new HC, whoever that may be, to lead us to where we all want to be.

[PlummMeanGreen]

That #19 Missouri team that Troy defeated went on to have a losing record if I recall correctly. Having it mentioned all the time is kind of ignoring the fact that it was shown to be fool's gold within a few weeks.

They were ranked #19 the week Troy played them and after that game Troy football players didn't care less what the Tigers did after they whooped their a$$e$ on national TV.

Most on this board would enjoy a Top 25 win and I am trying to remember last time that actually happened with UNT. I guess I dare not mention the UNT coach I think that last happened, too.

[CMJ]

They were ranked #19 the week Troy played them and after that game Troy football players didn't care less what the Tigers did after they whooped their a$$e$ on national TV.

Most on this board would enjoy a Top 25 win and I am trying to remember last time that actually happened with UNT. I guess I dare not mention the UNT coach I think that last happened, too.

And what I'm saying is it doesn't matter if a team is pre-season top 20 if they suck during the year. Early season rankings mean jack.

Edited November 5, 2010 by CMJ

[FirefightnRick]

Sorry but I didn't embarrass myself and a most of those in my area were behind me 100%. In fact, the next game I loudly asked if this was the no yell Zone and I was promply encourage to speak out.

I told the players that night that it wasn't their fault, that the coaches lost that game. I supported the players! But partner thats all old news. We have even had a coaching change since then.

Now, it seems you have a problem because you keep stalking my post with your attacks. However, I do appreciate you leaving my quote on your post about the checkmating a King with only the help of a pawn. That's a great quote, it's true, it's all mine and a lesson for all.

Thank you.

I was there and you stated perfectly what everyone else was thinking as well that night.' And certainly nothing any worse that hasn't already been shouted at Kyle Field this year, right Quoner?

Rick

[Eagle1855]

This is what I keep trying to get stAte fans to understand. It's an old saying, and Coach Brady loves to cite even more than I do (and I use it often).

YOU GET WHAT YOU TOLERATE

People can sit around and cry like a bunch of babies about what they don't have (conference affiliation, 100 yard indoor practice fields, three home uniforms, big recruiting budgets etc) or they can raise expectations and focus on what they have that they can exploit for success.

As long as people think a great season is 7-4 or 8-5, they won't be that upset with a 6-6 season. If a 6-6 isn't that bad, then 5-7 was just a couple breaks away.

I do not believe that it is outside the capability of several Sun Belt teams to be 12 or better in the BCS rankings if they exploit their strengths. Ball State with a crappy schedule, a 40 year old stadium that doesn't even seat 30,000 was one win from being at that point. They are 20 minutes closer to Indianapolis than ASU is to Memphis, similar MSA population, located in a rural area. Look around the Sun Belt and everyone in the league has several advantages over Ball State.

Name me one school in the Sun Belt that would have a high official say "Our goal is to be in the BCS in four years". Most CUSA AD's and presidents wouldn't go on record saying that. Who is willing to stand up and be accountable for saying "Our goal is to be in the final top 25 within four years."

The boldest statements I've heard so far was the ASU chancellor saying "Why can't we be like Memphis in basketball" and John Brady saying "While I am here, we will go to an NCAA Tournament and win a game. I don't see any reason we can't have a shot to go to a Final Four like George Mason did."

Until a school sets higher goals than win the conference or earn the auto berth to the NCAA Tournament, the results WILL NOT CHANGE.

When the NCAA raised academic standards more than one coach said the change would knock a lot of good players out, what happened was that when kids understood what was required to play Division I ball, most of them rose to the challenge.

I wonder if Nevada football would be ranked today if not for the challenge of chasing Boise after they set such a high standard. Someone has to rise up and set the standard.

I like your ideas.

[wardly]

The answer to NT football dilemma is to win, in the Belt or elsewhere. The Belt has been very good to NT, it is certainly not a premier conference but with NT generally stinking it up in football the last six years; NT should not complain. IMO the Belt will be significantly better than the reconstituted WAC and has been on par with the MAC for several years, and the MWC and CUSA are not really substantially better. Being in the Belt, hurts recruiting in Texas because NT is the lone team; but TCU has been able to manage that in the MWC because they are very good. It would be nice to be in a conference with your peers, and IMO that would be Tech, Houston, UTEP and in time perhaps UTSA and TSSM. Similar size schools with close academics and missions.

NT immediate goal should be to dominate the Belt. I do believe that NT has the resources, size and location and hopefully now the will to do just that. In reality now, NT has two bad programs: football and WBB and the running sports stuck on mediocrity. RV and staff has got volleyball, swimming, tennis, softball, MBB and golf all on an upward trajectory. Soccer long a strength is also in the top portion of the conference.

New conference opportunities will come and I really think NT is already in a very positive position. The private dominated Western CUSA may have unfavorable odds for NT entrance, but if NT continues to build, better things will come.

good post.