What Should The Fans Expect From Canales

[MeanGreenTexan]

Actually, the question probably needs to be rephrased. RV has said he wants the new coach in place before the K-State game, so Coach Canales' "audition" is only a 4 total game tryout, tops, including WKU.

Hmm. OK. I hope that if coach Canales can run the table for the remainder of Sun Belt play if he would get a crack at KSU.

Of course, running the table is a big IF...

[eppy4life]

Hmm. OK. I hope that if coach Canales can run the table for the remainder of Sun Belt play if he would get a crack at KSU.

Of course, running the table is a big IF...

This is a good question. If RV really wants someone hired before the end of the season it would seem to me that Canales must win the next 3 games. And if he wins the next 3 games, I'd be all for waiting another week to see what he does against Kstate.

But guys, lets realize that all the Canales for coach talk could be put to rest tomorrow. Or... it could be magified.

[Cr1028]

...those 2 guys all had state of Texas recruiting on their resume's and I don't think that Canales does looking at his bio as posted today by UNTLifer I believe it was. In fact, has Canales even been in our state 1 year yet? Even one of our best Mean Green football players from the past posted "how do we know this guy can even recruit?" Beggin' a few pardons here, but wouldn't that be something needed on a resume' that our next Mean Green HFC must have had success (and that success preferably in the Lone Star State)?

Isn't that what recruiting coordinators are for? Chuck Peterson has been recruiting Texas well for decades.

He still remembers every player he recruited from the high school I went to(Coppell). This includes players that last played HS ball in 1997. That man is pretty incredible.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Cr1028

[houstonmeangreen]

We all want to use Boise State as an example to follow when turning our program around. Boise hired Dirk Koetter in 1998 to begin the turnaround. Koetter's job prior to being HC at BSU? OC at Oregon.

Houston hired Art Briles, RB coach for TTech, to start their turn around.

Kansas State hired Bill Snyder, Iowa OC, to revive their program.

These are three very good examples of programs that were perenial losers that didn't go after a "name" coach with previous HC experience to lead them from the darkness. They hired the best coach they thought they could and put resources behind changing the culture of the program.

don't discount Canales...I see potential in this guy and his heart is in the right place...well see what he does the rest of the season...he could be a flop or he could be a great HC for UNT...and if he was, he could be our Grant Taff....staying with UNT a long time, appreciative he was given a chance at UNT...lets let this all UNFOLD in the next few weeks...then we will know the road to take.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Isn't that what recruiting coordinators are for? Chuck Peterson has been recruiting Texas well for decades.

He still remembers every player he recruited from the high school I went to(Coppell). This includes players that last played HS ball in 1997. That man is pretty incredible.

The Head Football Coach Closes The Sale After the Coordinator Brings Them To Campus:

When our recruits back in my day walked into Hayden Fry's office for him to close the deal they usually had their parents, grandparents, 1'st cousin, 2'nd cousins, inbred cousins, those they never claimed as cousins, their HS football coach & staff, the entire student body from said recruits HS alma mater just to see a celebrity head football coach, ie, the great Hayden Fry.

Then SuperHayden went the next step and had that whole entourage buy season tickets for their blue chip recruits freshmen season the next Fall. Do any schools really get that with a project coach hire from a losing program at the NCAA level? On Another Note: I am duly impressed with CaliMeanGreen's stuff the ballot box campaign the last several days; albeit I predicted that would happen with some of the Canales crowd, now didn't I?

Now......seriously. Actually, the word myself and others whose opinions I've long respected hear about Coach Canales, ie, those of us who don't drink Denton water which seems to create strange sensations concerning athletic hirings among a hardy handful of our alums is that he really is a great guy, motivator, a good coach as well--but probably at UNT at the wrong time with all the wins/losses that goes with the present football scenario in MG Country. I hope that he will (in fact) get to stay in some capacity once this thing of a new coach gets done. NOTE: I think his lack of a long term Texas recruiting background to put on his resume' will have been a key factor in his not getting our job. Looking ahead, if he were an assistant at UNT the next few year but with a winning program, then his time to be HFC would probably be at hand.

And Now Even More Seriously, after a most very recent conversation with a UNT heavy hitter, I am most assured our most pro-active AD Rick V will do what I thought he would do in the first place and look beyond Denton for a new HFC.

The UNT BOR's are very much interested with this hire maybe more than I've ever heard from that group since I've been around Denton, circa 1972, and that's all I'm going to say about that special board at this moment in time. They really care a helluva' lot about this hire and this football program (and that is good news for all of us).

In closing, this post will all but wrap up my diatribes about the hiring of an unknown project or assistant coach on our present staff to be our HFC; oh, I may still join in on some more opinion making on the subject, but for all practical purposes: I rest my case. (an olive branch to all who will accept).[/

PlummMeanGreen aka James Plummer

UNT Class of 1976

Ulys Knight Spirit Award Recipient (1996)

Former MG Club Early Bird Fundraiser Recipient

Proud 6'th Generation Texan

Former Member of the Sons of the Republic of Texas

Tea Party Member Who Believes in the Constitution The Way George, Thomas, Ben and the rest of the guys intended it

Conservative Independent (who rarely votes straight party; yes, I vote for Democrats sometimes if they aren't too far out there)

Couts Methodist Church, Weatherford, Texas (member)

Go Mean Green!

Edited November 5, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[Stan R]

Well this is just what the doctor ordered to keep attendance up. The fans seem to love Canales - at least his attitude. He is now the underdog fighting for his head coaching job. People will now want to come to see this as a single elimination playoff tournament - for the head coaching job. Lose and you're basically out (not counting K-State of course). Great drama. Almost... hmm... seems like a contrived publicity stunt... But, no of course not that's crazy talk.

[Cr1028]

Plumm, no disrespect to the great Hayden Fry and what he did at North Texas but would our fans in 2010 consider the following a "big name" successful hire?

Hayden Fry compiled a 49661 record in 11 seasons at SMU, including the school's only three winning seasons since the late 1940s.

In 1968, SMU went 73 and defeated Oklahoma in the Bluebonnet Bowl. LeVias was selected as an all-conference player as a senior for the third time. Fry's Mustangs then had just a 1220 record over the next three years from 19691971. That put Fry's job in jeopardy, and rumors started to swirl after Fry's Mustangs started the 1972 season at 4-4. Not even a three game winning streak could save Fry. After a 74 season in 1972, Fry was fired at SMU, which robbed the Mustangs of a bowl berth.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Cr1028

[NT80]

Well this is just what the doctor ordered to keep attendance up. The fans seem to love Canales - at least his attitude. He is now the underdog fighting for his head coaching job. People will now want to come to see this as a single elimination playoff tournament - for the head coaching job. Lose and you're basically out (not counting K-State of course). Great drama. Almost... hmm... seems like a contrived publicity stunt... But, no of course not that's crazy talk.

The entertainment value of the final four NT games this season has certainly risen. Much better than having a lame duck coach and black jerseys show up.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Well this is just what the doctor ordered to keep attendance up. The fans seem to love Canales - at least his attitude. He is now the underdog fighting for his head coaching job. People will now want to come to see this as a single elimination playoff tournament - for the head coaching job. Lose and you're basically out (not counting K-State of course). Great drama. Almost... hmm... seems like a contrived publicity stunt... But, no of course not that's crazy talk.

A losing football program for 6 years in a row is the problem here. Seems all associated with it are still part of that losing era. Not much more to say on this.

_________________________________________________________

Another Post this time by Cr1028

Plumm, no disrespect to the great Hayden Fry and what he did at North Texas but would our fans in 2010 consider the following a "big name" successful hire?

Quote

Hayden Fry compiled a 49–66–1 record in 11 seasons at SMU, including the school's only three winning seasons since the late 1940s.

In 1968, SMU went 7–3 and defeated Oklahoma in the Bluebonnet Bowl. LeVias was selected as an all-conference player as a senior for the third time. Fry's Mustangs then had just a 12–20 record over the next three years from 1969–1971. That put Fry's job in jeopardy, and rumors started to swirl after Fry's Mustangs started the 1972 season at 4-4. Not even a three game winning streak could save Fry. After a 7–4 season in 1972, Fry was fired at SMU, which robbed the Mustangs of a bowl berth.

Just Responding to Cr1028:

No disrespect taken, Cr1028, but I was at that Bluebonnet Bowl game that was at that time called Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl (with the Astrodome connection, of course). A great win for SMU in a most exciting game. One like Boise/OU a few years ago but on a much smaller scale than a BCS bowl game.

Cr1028, are you tapping into my phone line? I spoke to another alum jus this morning on that same subject about Fry's overall unimpressive record at SMU before we hired him just as you posted.

What Happened Back Then Some Might Ask?

The UNT president of that era (Jitter Nolen) took charge of the hiring of Hayden Fry. He didn't fiddle-fart waiting on a committe to be formed, either, as I recall. NOTE: One such committee in our past hired Dennis Parker over Coach Dennis Francione who really wanted the UNT job if you want to see some of the comedy and tragedy UNT alums have had to endure thru the years.

Fred McCain was the AD and would not in a millions years have called Hayden. (Poor Fred lost his AD job to Hayden not too long after Fry was hired as HFC and that started some of the bittnerness among many of the old nestors in Denton--Fry didn't fire Fred, the UNT Prez' did). We all love Coach Fred but he was part of the Denton "lets keep it small time teacher's college" crowd of which some descendents still seem to be posting and keeping that fire (and modus operendi) going. So in affect, President Nolen took charge of that hire and got it done pretty quick.

What you understandably think was a negative, though, turned out to be a positive truth be known and why was that?

Hayden Fry had 11 years of HFC'ing experience in a conference we all followed. I knew who Coach Fry was because I read about SMU in the Houston Post and Houston Chronicle in my public school years on the Gulf Coast. He was known as an innovative coach at a school that post-Doak Walker era was in disarray. Many from SMU hated Fry for recruiitng Jerry Levias and I heard that from an SMU old timer in Fort Worth.

Many have posted that "IF" UNT were to hire a name coach this time around with true name ID he would most likely have some kind of blemish. Fry's was what you stated even though his last year on the SMU payroll the Mustangs finished 7 and 4.

Yet for a school like North Texas back then (and even still today) a name coach like Fry made it happen in Denton because Texans knew who the guy was. Fry turned his SMU lemons into UNT lemonade and I think Iowa would say "North Texas, thanks for hiring Hayden because you made our selection of him very easy."

But What's The Difference?

Just as we found there was a huge difference from Southlake Carroll HS to a HFC at the NCAA's FBS level there would be the same for an unknown project also unknown to most UNT alums across Texas (and isn't that group who keeps our seats empty who need a "buzz or splash hire" to get them even vaguely interested in this program)?

It's that group who don't follow this as close as GMG.com members do, too, but the difference would be as glaring as the TDodge model from HS head football coach to HFC at UNT. Act like you haven't been part of the Canales pentocostal emotional experience, get back down to reality and earth and then start your own thinking process as to what we really need at North Texas for this particular hire.

Remember, if we get someone with Fry's or Coach Frans or Coach Leavitt's NCAA FBS kind of experience with hopefullly some semblance of Texas recruiting ties, then there will still be some obvious blemishes, other-wise most of us would be realistic enough to know we wouldn't have a prayer with such a coach as Coach Fran, Jim Leavitt or even a Mike Leach; I understand there are others of similar stature who want our job now that UNT is building a new football palace located between those 2 Texas interstates.

Edited November 5, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[Mean Green 93-98]

I think Iowa would say "North Texas, thanks for firing Hayden because you made our selection of him easy."

[PlummMeanGreen]

Sorry, I corrected my "typo." Amazing how one letter can sure make a difference, eh?

"firing" was corrected to "hiring"....

Edited November 5, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[Cr1028]

Hayden Fry had 11 years of HFC'ing experience in a conference we all followed. I knew who Coach Fry was because I read about SMU in the Houston Post and Houston Chronicle in my public school years on the Gulf Coast. He was known as an innovative coach at a school that post-Doak Walker era was in disarray. Many from SMU hated Fry for recruiitng Jerry Levias and I heard that from an SMU old timer in Fort Worth.

Many have posted that "IF" UNT were to hire a name coach this time around with true name ID he would most likely have some kind of blemish. Fry's was what you stated even though his last year on the SMU payroll the Mustangs finished 7 and 4.

Yet for a school like North Texas back then (and even still today) a name coach like Fry made it happen in Denton because Texans knew who the guy was. Fry turned his SMU lemons into UNT lemonade and I think Iowa would say "North Texas, thanks for hiring Hayden because you made our selection of him very easy."

Remember, if we get someone with Fry's NCAA FBS kind of experience with great Texas recruiting ties, then there will still be some obvious blemishes, other-wise most of us would be realistic enough to know we wouldn't have a prayer with such a coach as Coach Fran, Jim Leavits or even a Mike Leach; I understand there are others of similar stature who want our job now that UNT is building a new football palace located between those 2 Texas interstates.

This guy has head coaching experience in a conference we all know and has recruited Texas. I doubt he has the answers for North Texas but he does fit your criteria.

[MeanGreen61]

This guy has head coaching experience in a conference we all know and has recruited Texas. I doubt he has the answers for North Texas but he does fit your criteria.

He was a huge flop at Baylor.

[Cr1028]

He was a huge flop at Baylor.

I was making the point that Hayden Fry would not be in the discussion for our current position.

If Texas Tech could not afford Mike Leach, I know damn well we can't.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I was making the point that Hayden Fry would not be in the discussion for our current position.

If Texas Tech could not afford Mike Leach, I know damn well we can't.

Just Responding...

But he would fit the "blemish factor" of the kind of name coach we would only be able to hire in Denton. These guys (like Fry) have talent that many times can be better served at another NCAA outpost. (Being out of coaching 2 or 3 years is one of those kind of blemishes and 2 coaches on Harry's poll meet that criteria).

Junk to one school (SMU) was treasure to others (UNT & Iowa).

Fry with his state-wide name ID came out swinging even in his first recruiting class he signed in February of 1973--in Fry's and those recruits Year 3 they would play a big role in beating Tennessee, Houston and others in that memborable 1975 Mean Green football season. Yet Fry signed his first class with a little over 2 months after being hired in December of 1972. For whatever reason, he turned into an impact hire for North Texas. A known former NCAA FBS HFC might be able to salvage this upcoming recruiting class if an impact hire.

Honestly, I don't care who we hire just so he's been thru the baptism of fire as a multi-year NCAA FBS HFC somewhere and even has a few skins on the wall that showed he had some semblance of success; preferably a HFC with Texas ties for the recruiting part but that can be over-come with the assistants he would hire.

Edited November 6, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[Cr1028]

Honestly, I don't care who we hire just so he's been thru the baptism of fire as a multi-year NCAA FBS HFC somewhere and even has a few skins on the wall that showed he had some semblance of success; preferably a HFC with Texas ties for the recruiting part but that can be over-come with the assistants he would hire.

So you're pretty much talking Fran unless you bring in the long-in-tooth RC Slocum or Fred Akers.

[FirefightnRick]

The great Hayden Fry can't even claim to building the level of success from nothing as Jim Leavitt did.

Rick

Edited November 6, 2010 by FirefightnRick

[SilverEagle]

The great Hayden Fry can't even claim to building the level of success from nothing as Jim Leavitt did.

Rick

As I said in another thread, it's easier to build from nothing (as long as you eventually have the financial backing) than re-build a clinically depressed program.

Besides, where did Leavitt learn about building/re-building? I believe it was working for Bill Snyder.....who learned it from Hayden Fry when he was his OC...at North Texas and Iowa.

Edited November 6, 2010 by SilverEagle

[PlummMeanGreen]

So you're pretty much talking Fran unless you bring in the long-in-tooth RC Slocum or Fred Akers.

No, I like Jim Leavitt, too, because he did build something from nothing.

And like FFR said, "even Fry didn't to that." Had Fry had a single wide trailer for his first office and Bronco Field (DHS) to start out with at UNT, I would have liked his chances, though. Leavitt raised a program that now sets pretty well in the Big East and many of us are jealous as hell of South Florida because we've been chipping away all these decades doing the same things over and over again expecting better results. Some have called that modus operendi the definition of insanity.

As a crusty old fart Texan who will turn 60 this month and one who doesn't mince words anymore because of it, I call the aforemenitoned M.O. being just plain ol' dumb a$$ stupid. (Dennis Parker over Dennis Francione for heavens sake)? I put dollar mark$ in the "A" word because that is what all that has cost us thru the decades, too. I know Rick V will fix all this, though, because my gut tells me so. (We can't fault RV for Todd Dodge since many of us waved the fan of support for his hire and if you've ever made a mistake in your life, you'd know how some of us feel now but--we don't won't to screw up this next hire, folks. It would be catastrophic in light of this new stadium that needs 30,000 fans every time we tee it up instead of what we're getting now with Dodge, Canales or all their fellow "project" predecessors when they were at the helm.

Jim Leavitt would be great. Again, folks, the name coach we hire will have some semblance of a "so called" blemish. Fry's was his overall record at SMU, but somebody at North Texas also knew what he had been up against on that campus and still hired an experienced NCAA D1 coach with statewide name ID and for doing that is the reason Prez' Jitter Nolen will always have a place in many of us old gun alum's hearts.

BTW, when have I ever posted the names of Akers and Slocum ever on this board? Surely you jest on those 2 who have been out of coaching for well over 10 years now.........right?

[Cr1028]

No, I like Jim Leavitt, too, because he did build something from nothing.

And like FFR said, "even Fry didn't to that." Had Fry had a single wide trailer for his first office and Bronco Field (DHS) to start out with at UNT, I would have liked his chances, though. Leavitt raised a program that now sets pretty well in the Big East and many of us are jealous as hell of South Florida because we've been chipping away all these decades doing the same things over and over again expecting better results. Some have called that modus operendi the definition of insanity.

As a crusty old fart Texan who will turn 60 this month and one who doesn't mince words anymore because of it, I call the aforemenitoned M.O. being just plain ol' dumb a$$ stupid. (Dennis Parker over Dennis Francione for heavens sake)? I put dollar mark$ in the "A" word because that is what all that has cost us thru the decades, too. I know Rick V will fix all this, though, because my gut tells me so. (We can't fault RV for Todd Dodge since many of us waved the fan of support for his hire and if you've ever made a mistake in your life, you'd know how some of us feel now but--we don't won't to screw up this next hire, folks. It would be catastrophic in light of this new stadium that needs 30,000 fans every time we tee it up instead of what we're getting now with Dodge, Canales or all their fellow "project" predecessors when they were at the helm.

Jim Leavitt would be great. Again, folks, the name coach we hire will have some semblance of a "so called" blemish. Fry's was his overall record at SMU, but somebody at North Texas also knew what he had been up against on that campus and still hired an experienced NCAA D1 coach with statewide name ID and for doing that is the reason Prez' Jitter Nolen will always have a place in many of us old gun alum's hearts.

BTW, when have I ever posted the names of Akers and Slocum ever on this board? Surely you jest on those 2 who have been out of coaching for well over 10 years now.........right?

Of course I jest. You said they had to have a strong Texas recruiting background. Those are the only two I could think of that had "big time" program success in Texas besides perhaps Fran. I don't see how Leavitt could be counted as someone with a strong Texas recruiting background.

[DallasGreen]

As odd as it sounds, I agree with the Plumm on this one, sans his polychromatic script.

I appreciate what Coach Canales is doing to resurrect what has been another dismal season in Mean Green Country. Canales may be an outstanding guy, and eventually a very promising potential head coach, but now is not the right time at North Texas.

North Texas needs to be able to sell potential ticket buyers that there will be real change from the embarrassing results they have witnessed and followed in the newspapers for the last six years. "We fired Todd Dodge but promoted his assistant because he beat a horrible Western Kentucky team and had the team playing well against a couple of other Sun Belt schools" just doesn't cut it. The change needs to be much more evident, and hopefully noteworthy in that it's somebody who will generate interest outside gomeangreen.com, and nobody from the current staff fits the criteria.

I will say that Coach Canales has seemed to inspire the team during that Western Kentucky game, and seems to be quite popular with many of the players and fans. Hopefully he will keep performing well and will have strong consideration to remain as Offensive Coordinator on the next coaching staff. Coach Canales is one of the main reasons that I find head coach candidate Jim Leavitt so intriguing. Those two have proven that together they can build a winning program.

And who knows what the future holds.....Canales could eventually be hired as the head coach at another school, or he could eventually inherit the head coaching position at North Texas.

Anyway, whoever it is, I want the new North Texas head football coach signed, on site, evaluating talent, building his staff, and starting the recruiting process before this football season ends. Waiting until after the season to evaluate and offer candidates is not an acceptable option.

Why not have the best of both worlds--hire Leavitt and keep Canales as OC and recruiting coordinator and let it be known he is HC in waiting anytime Leavitt leaves?

Edited November 6, 2010 by DallasGreen

[ADLER]

Why not have the best of both worlds--hire Leavitt and keep Canales as OC and recruiting coordinator and let it be known he is HC in waiting anytime Leavitt leaves?

I agree. I think the term is 'Assistant Head Coach'. I believe that's the position that Slocum at A&M promoted Steve Kragthorpe to when North Texas was looking for a coach to replace Matt Simon. Steve Kragthorpe was A&M's Quarterbacks Coach the preceding season, and was then promoted to Offensive Coordinator. When North Texas made it public that they were interested in Kragthorpe, he was again promoted with a large pay increase to that 'Assistant Head Coach' position and basically told North Texas that was was no longer interested. Some people still hold that against Kragthorpe. North Texas eventually settled for Darrel Dickey.

Kragthorpe clearly believed that he was positioned to either inherit the A&M Head Coach position or would receive an offer to lead another BCS program. That didn't happen as Slocum was fired the following season and Kragthorpe wound up taking his services to rebuild a downtrodden Tulsa program.

Anyway, back on topic, yes, I too am interested to see Canales retained on staff if he continues the passionate leadership that he has exhibited this season, and being Assistant Head Coach may be the way to do that.

[ntmeangreen11]

If he wins today, I will put him as my #1 regardless. A win today would be huge for the future of this program, especially considering we'll be playing across 35 next season.