Whatever The Choice

[stebo]

Whatever the choice - one thing is certain (for me) - whomever is hired must have the characteristics of Todd Dodge as a man. He has set the bar for what we should expect - class act, ability to change, ability to put ego aside, fan of North Texas, ability to concede defeat. A lot of our alumni point to Hayden Fry as a class act and I can see that. The landscape of college football was drastically different back then. Corporate sponsorships really did not exist. There were only a handful of bowl games. The college football world was a much more "clean" business back then.

I keep reading all these requirements for a new coach - winning record, FBS Head Coaching experience, name recognition - etc... And I agree with a lot of those traits. But the one thing that I have not seen is that our new coach must have the personality of Todd Dodge. What I mean - our new coach should understand and love North Texas (like we all do). Our new coach must run a clean ship. Our new coach must not badmouth our school, our players, or our fans. Our new coach must demand excellence in the classroom. Basically - we need a Todd Dodge that can win games.

In my opinion - Todd Dodge has set the bar for the type of "man" we should want and expect. His exit has been a breath of fresh air compared to the Simon and Dickey exits. I remember a football player telling me a story about how Simon was driving through the desert on his way out of town (headed to El Paso or something) and he called this player in a frenzy - just bad mouthing the school like a jilted teenager would. We all know what happened when Dickey was let go and RV probably went into the Dodge hire looking for a guy that was a "yes" man and would not challenge authority. I am sure that RV wanted someone that would never pull those stunts again. It was a shame because both coaches could have left here with legacies intact. Simon guided us through the ranks from IAA to IA and Dickey showed the fans how good we could be. They could have been legends that had statues eventually erected in their honor. But the manner in which they both left the program fractured the fan base and the alumni.

I hope that whomever is chosen - wherever he is from - has the traits of Dodge, the man. As we are throwing around names - like Leavitt and Leach and Bower - please do your research and see how they left their positions (despite the circumstances). How you carry yourself during and after the job is very important. I am fairly ignorant to the college football world (outside of North Texas) - so maybe you can all fill me in on how these coaches handled themselves during their dismissals.

[UNT90]

Whatever the choice - one thing is certain (for me) - whomever is hired must have the characteristics of Todd Dodge as a man. He has set the bar for what we should expect - class act, ability to change, ability to put ego aside, fan of North Texas, ability to concede defeat. A lot of our alumni point to Hayden Fry as a class act and I can see that. The landscape of college football was drastically different back then. Corporate sponsorships really did not exist. There were only a handful of bowl games. The college football world was a much more "clean" business back then.

I keep reading all these requirements for a new coach - winning record, FBS Head Coaching experience, name recognition - etc... And I agree with a lot of those traits. But the one thing that I have not seen is that our new coach must have the personality of Todd Dodge. What I mean - our new coach should understand and love North Texas (like we all do). Our new coach must run a clean ship. Our new coach must not badmouth our school, our players, or our fans. Our new coach must demand excellence in the classroom. Basically - we need a Todd Dodge that can win games.

In my opinion - Todd Dodge has set the bar for the type of "man" we should want and expect. His exit has been a breath of fresh air compared to the Simon and Dickey exits. I remember a football player telling me a story about how Simon was driving through the desert on his way out of town (headed to El Paso or something) and he called this player in a frenzy - just bad mouthing the school like a jilted teenager would. We all know what happened when Dickey was let go and RV probably went into the Dodge hire looking for a guy that was a "yes" man and would not challenge authority. I am sure that RV wanted someone that would never pull those stunts again. It was a shame because both coaches could have left here with legacies intact. Simon guided us through the ranks from IAA to IA and Dickey showed the fans how good we could be. They could have been legends that had statues eventually erected in their honor. But the manner in which they both left the program fractured the fan base and the alumni.

I hope that whomever is chosen - wherever he is from - has the traits of Dodge, the man. As we are throwing around names - like Leavitt and Leach and Bower - please do your research and see how they left their positions (despite the circumstances). How you carry yourself during and after the job is very important. I am fairly ignorant to the college football world (outside of North Texas) - so maybe you can all fill me in on how these coaches handled themselves during their dismissals.

The college football world was anything but clean back then.

If Coach Fry would have grabbed a player by the neck, or put a player in an air conditioned, 400 square foot room for the duration of practice to make a point, NO ONE would have had one thought about it!! I would be interested to hear stories from Mean Joe Green about Coach Fry (the stories he will only tell to his most trusted friends).

It's great to romanticize the good old days, but let us please recognize that Bear Bryant probably would have been put in jail today for what he did to those fine young men in Junction, Texas. That was far more abusive than anything Leach or Leavitt did to one, ONE, ONE, of their players. But no, the Bear is romanticized for being a "tough old coach."

Maybe we are just raising a generation of Jackwagons!!

Edited October 22, 2010 by UNT90

[wardly]

Whatever the choice - one thing is certain (for me) - whomever is hired must have the characteristics of Todd Dodge as a man. He has set the bar for what we should expect - class act, ability to change, ability to put ego aside, fan of North Texas, ability to concede defeat. A lot of our alumni point to Hayden Fry as a class act and I can see that. The landscape of college football was drastically different back then. Corporate sponsorships really did not exist. There were only a handful of bowl games. The college football world was a much more "clean" business back then.

I keep reading all these requirements for a new coach - winning record, FBS Head Coaching experience, name recognition - etc... And I agree with a lot of those traits. But the one thing that I have not seen is that our new coach must have the personality of Todd Dodge. What I mean - our new coach should understand and love North Texas (like we all do). Our new coach must run a clean ship. Our new coach must not badmouth our school, our players, or our fans. Our new coach must demand excellence in the classroom. Basically - we need a Todd Dodge that can win games.

In my opinion - Todd Dodge has set the bar for the type of "man" we should want and expect. His exit has been a breath of fresh air compared to the Simon and Dickey exits. I remember a football player telling me a story about how Simon was driving through the desert on his way out of town (headed to El Paso or something) and he called this player in a frenzy - just bad mouthing the school like a jilted teenager would. We all know what happened when Dickey was let go and RV probably went into the Dodge hire looking for a guy that was a "yes" man and would not challenge authority. I am sure that RV wanted someone that would never pull those stunts again. It was a shame because both coaches could have left here with legacies intact. Simon guided us through the ranks from IAA to IA and Dickey showed the fans how good we could be. They could have been legends that had statues eventually erected in their honor. But the manner in which they both left the program fractured the fan base and the alumni.

I hope that whomever is chosen - wherever he is from - has the traits of Dodge, the man. As we are throwing around names - like Leavitt and Leach and Bower - please do your research and see how they left their positions (despite the circumstances). How you carry yourself during and after the job is very important. I am fairly ignorant to the college football world (outside of North Texas) - so maybe you can all fill me in on how these coaches handled themselves during their dismissals.

i don't know if football was any cleaner, but regardless i think you hit the nail on the head. its called "character", something those who abuse players lack, and what t.d. had in spades.

[EagleMBA]

The college football world was anything but clean back then.

If Coach Fry would have grabbed a player by the neck, or put a player in an air conditioned, 400 square foot room for the duration of practice to make a point, NO ONE would have had one thought about it!! I would be interested to hear stories from Mean Joe Green about Coach Fry (the stories he will only tell to his most trusted friends).

It's great to romanticize the good old days, but let us please recognize that Bear Bryant probably would have been put in jail today for what he did to those fine young men in Junction, Texas. That was far more abusive than anything Leach or Leavitt did to one, ONE, ONE, of their players. But no, the Bear is romanticized for being a "tough old coach."

Maybe we are just raising a generation of Jackwagons!!

This! Where is Woody Hayes when you need him?

[KingDL1]

Wasn't Mean Joe before Fry?

[Marty]

yeah, Mean Joe played several years before Fry took over.

[NCMeanGreen]

No offense, but "character" may not matter if we do not win games! WINNING has become the most important thing for us at NT...WINNING is PARAMOUNT!!!

[eulessismore]

I agree with the assessment of Dodge as setting a good example on character issues. However, and Dodge himself said something when his hire was announced words to the effect that "we can win and do it right". We need to do things right and also win. These are not mutually exclusive goals.

[stebo]

No offense, but "character" may not matter if we do not win games! WINNING has become the most important thing for us at NT...WINNING is PARAMOUNT!!!

Haha, calm down there partner. I am in complete agreement with you. I just believe that we can have both

[NT80]

The college football world was a much more "clean" business back then.

Ask $muuuu how clean it was back then.

[Mo Green]

Stebo, so your saying no democrat's!

[GrandGreen]

Joe Greene played for Rust not Fry and if you think football was cleaner in the "ole days", it is because you just were not around. As mentioned above, coaches could never get away with the stuff they used to pull. Illegal recruiting, abuse of players and little regard to academics were all issues that were much worse in the past. There were no cameras at every event and very few investigative reporters. Coaches could just about get by with anything and many did. Coaches such as Royal, Wilkerson, Bryant, etc. were legends because they won not because of great character. The powers routinely gave out 60 and 70 freshmen ships and then proceeded to run off the majority to make way for next years crop.

Rules limiting number of scholarships, stating minimum academic standards, and requiring academic progress are not always effective, but it is a much better environment for players than existed decades ago.

[rcade]

Whatever the choice - one thing is certain (for me) - whomever is hired must have the characteristics of Todd Dodge as a man.

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't care what kind of man the next coach is as long as he wins lots of games without cheating.

[FirefightnRick]

i don't know if football was any cleaner, but regardless i think you hit the nail on the head. its called "character", something those who abuse players lack, and what t.d. had in spades.

Define abuse.

Rick

[UNTLifer]

Whatever the choice - one thing is certain (for me) - whomever is hired must have the characteristics of Todd Dodge as a man. He has set the bar for what we should expect - class act, ability to change, ability to put ego aside, fan of North Texas, ability to concede defeat. A lot of our alumni point to Hayden Fry as a class act and I can see that. The landscape of college football was drastically different back then. Corporate sponsorships really did not exist. There were only a handful of bowl games. The college football world was a much more "clean" business back then.

I keep reading all these requirements for a new coach - winning record, FBS Head Coaching experience, name recognition - etc... And I agree with a lot of those traits. But the one thing that I have not seen is that our new coach must have the personality of Todd Dodge. What I mean - our new coach should understand and love North Texas (like we all do). Our new coach must run a clean ship. Our new coach must not badmouth our school, our players, or our fans. Our new coach must demand excellence in the classroom. Basically - we need a Todd Dodge that can win games.

In my opinion - Todd Dodge has set the bar for the type of "man" we should want and expect. His exit has been a breath of fresh air compared to the Simon and Dickey exits. I remember a football player telling me a story about how Simon was driving through the desert on his way out of town (headed to El Paso or something) and he called this player in a frenzy - just bad mouthing the school like a jilted teenager would. We all know what happened when Dickey was let go and RV probably went into the Dodge hire looking for a guy that was a "yes" man and would not challenge authority. I am sure that RV wanted someone that would never pull those stunts again. It was a shame because both coaches could have left here with legacies intact. Simon guided us through the ranks from IAA to IA and Dickey showed the fans how good we could be. They could have been legends that had statues eventually erected in their honor. But the manner in which they both left the program fractured the fan base and the alumni.

I hope that whomever is chosen - wherever he is from - has the traits of Dodge, the man. As we are throwing around names - like Leavitt and Leach and Bower - please do your research and see how they left their positions (despite the circumstances). How you carry yourself during and after the job is very important. I am fairly ignorant to the college football world (outside of North Texas) - so maybe you can all fill me in on how these coaches handled themselves during their dismissals.

[UNT90]

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't care what kind of man the next coach is as long as he wins lots of games without cheating.

+ 20

It's a parent's responsibility to be a parent, not a college football coach's responsibility.

We don't need to hire a Billy Gillespie, but we don't need to make spotless character the number one priority, either.

Hire an F'n football coach, not a freaking father figure.

[KRAM1]

No offense, but "character" may not matter if we do not win games! WINNING has become the most important thing for us at NT...WINNING is PARAMOUNT!!!

Character always...ALWAYS...matters. It is 100% possible to win with character. If yoiu can't do that, please do not darken the doorstep at UNT. It is very sad to me to even have something like this in anyone's thought process. If it has come to this, well, it is a sad day indeed. I am 100% behind the fact that UNT must start winning some football games or the idea of moving this program forward will, indeed, be lost. Folks, there are plenty...plenty of HC candidates with the ability to build a winning program at UNT WITH character. I know NCMeanGreen is not ayoudvocating that UNT ignore "character" in its next HC hire, but rather stressing the need to start winning. Without positives in the "character" department, any "winning" program is being built on a foundation of quicksand and will be fleeting at best.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

+ 20

It's a parent's responsibility to be a parent, not a college football coach's responsibility.

We don't need to hire a Billy Gillespie, but we don't need to make spotless character the number one priority, either.

Rw

Hire an F'n football coach, not a freaking father figure.

That's not really the case. Read through a coach's contract. You will see that these days coaches are expected to run programs that don't damage the reputation of the university...or, bring lawsuits against it.

Just as the law of agency applies in commercial situations, the coach of any collegiate athletic program is bound to uphold the rules and reputation of the school that employs him.

It goes into pro contracts as well. Read through any collective bargaining agreement pertaining to the sport and you will learn that conduct on and off the field is ground for termination:

NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement

NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement

MLB Collective Bargaining Agreement

NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement

Players are responsible for their actions in college and pro settings. And, the coaches are responsible for the actions of the players as well. This isn't a new concept. It's quite well developed over the past three decades.

No school hires a coach and allows him to ignore the actions of his players on and off the field. And, why would you want that type of coach anyway? There's too much money at stake for the colleges to not hold their coaches responsible for upholding the rules and reputation of the colleges.

Edited October 23, 2010 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[UNT90]

Folks, there are plenty...plenty of HC candidates with the ability to build a winning program at UNT WITH character.

Really? Considering we have had, what, 2 winning football coaches in school history, I would say history disagrees with you. Maybe these were the only to coaches with character, and thus that is the explanation for their winning records.

History, and just about anyone not associated with UNT, will tell you that "Many coach can win here" is laughable. If that were the case, we would not have fired a coach on Wednesday. Very, very, very, very few coaches can win at UNT right now. That is why it is so important that we make the right decision and spend the money in this next hire.

It's time to start acting like an FBS football program.

Edited October 23, 2010 by UNT90