For Those Of You Not Wanting An Up And Coming Assistant

UNTLifer · October 21, 2010

How do you explain the following:

Kevin Sumlin: Houston (career assistant)

Gary Patterson: TCU (defensive coordinator)

Mike Stoops: Arizona (career assistant)

Bob Stoops: OU (career assistant/DC)

Bo Pelini: Nebraska (career assistant)

Mike Leach: Texas Tech (OC at OU)

You all act like hiring an up and coming assistant is beneath us, yet the above schools did hire assistants and they all worked out just fine. Requiring that the new coach has HC experiecne should not even matter.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 21, 2010

Those guys were all coordinators taking over positions at schools who had more money to risk than we did.

None of those situations listed were as dire as ours is.

Sumlin took over a winning program and a new stadium

Patterson took over a winning program with plans for facility improvements already in the can

Bob Stoops took over one of the highest profile schools in college football - it recruits itself and simply needs a non-idiot to guide it (SEE ALSO Texas, Michigan, Notre Dame, Alabama, etc.)

Bo Pelini - Ditto Bob Stoops. Anyone respectable coach ought to be able to win at Nebraska. Even Bill Callahan had them in the Big 12 championship game.

Leach took over a program that had been winning under Spike Dykes.

The only outlier is Mike Stoops, and Arizona had much more resources than we do...I mean, money. Being in a BCS conference means getting millions in bowl money whether you qualify for a bowl or not.

We don't have money or history. This is a job for a proven workhorse. After it gets off the ground, fine, go after an up and comer. But, it needs to be built first. None of those guys you mention really built what they have now.

Green Nightmare · October 21, 2010

How do you explain the following:

Kevin Sumlin: Houston (career assistant)
Gary Patterson: TCU (defensive coordinator)
Mike Stoops: Arizona (career assistant)
Bob Stoops: OU (career assistant/DC)
Bo Pelini: Nebraska (career assistant)
Mike Leach: Texas Tech (OC at OU)

You all act like hiring an up and coming assistant is beneath us, yet the above schools did hire assistants and they all worked out just fine. Requiring that the new coach has HC experiecne should not even matter.

So hire and OU assistant? since they all were except Patterson

SilverEagle · October 21, 2010

Those guys were all coordinators taking over positions at schools who had more money to risk than we did.

None of those situations listed were as dire as ours is.

Sumlin took over a winning program and a new stadium
Patterson took over a winning program with plans for facility improvements already in the can
Bob Stoops took over one of the highest profile schools in college football - it recruits itself and simply needs a non-idiot to guide it (SEE ALSO Texas, Michigan, Notre Dame, Alabama, etc.)
Bo Pelini - Ditto Bob Stoops. Anyone respectable coach ought to be able to win at Nebraska. Even Bill Callahan had them in the Big 12 championship game.
Leach took over a program that had been winning under Spike Dykes.

The only outlier is Mike Stoops, and Arizona had much more resources than we do...I mean, money. Being in a BCS conference means getting millions in bowl money whether you qualify for a bowl or not.

We don't have money or history. This is a job for a proven workhorse. After it gets off the ground, fine, go after an up and comer. But, it needs to be built first. None of those guys you mention really built what they have now.

:huh: I don't believe that that is how it works.

You hire the hungry up-and-comer who works his a$$ of to build the program up, which causes people to give more money etc. He then gets hired away from us, and we either hire the next "hungry up-and-comer" or a proven coach that was fired because he wasn't a good fit at his previous job, but for whatever reason, he's a better fit for North Texas. AND because of the hard work and success of the previous coach, we have enough money to hire the aforementioned "proven coach".

We were in the position to hire Hayden Fry because he was unjustly fired, he was a proven program builder (SMU) and he was hungry to prove that SMU were idiots for firing him. We were also in the position to hire him because we had a President (Jitter Nolan) who understood what it took to get a program going and got creative in paying Hayden (they paid him two salaries...HC and AD).

I don't think that situation will ever happen again, but there will always be young hungry coaches out there willing to work their a$$e$ off to get to the next level.

I don't think that DD was a very hungry coach.

forevereagle · October 21, 2010

By definition, all head coaches were, at some point, a coordinator or position coach.

SilverEagle · October 21, 2010

By definition, all head coaches were, at some point, a coordinator or position coach.

Yep. For instance, Urban Meyer.

Early coaching career

After playing as a defensive back for the University of Cincinnati, Meyer spent one season interning as a defensive back coach at Saint Xavier High School in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1985, where he met members of the Ohio State coaching staff.[12] His first collegiate coaching position was a two-year stint as a graduate assistant at Ohio State.[2] He then spent the next thirteen years as an assistant—two at Illinois State, six at Colorado State, and five at Notre Dame.[2] In 1990, while still the linebacker coach at Illinois State, he called Toledo head coach Nick Saban to see if a position was available on his staff. Saban, however, never returned the call.[13] In 2001, Meyer took his first head coaching job at Bowling Green.[3] In his first season there, he engineered one of the greatest turnarounds in the NCAA football history, going 8–3 and capping off the season with a 56–21 victory over Bowling Green's rival, the University of Toledo Rockets.[14] He also earned Mid-American Conference coach of the year honors. The next year, Bowling Green finished with a 9–3 record.[14] After a 17–6 overall record, Meyer left for the University of Utah.[15]

NT80 · October 21, 2010

How do you explain the following:

Kevin Sumlin: Houston (career assistant)
Gary Patterson: TCU (defensive coordinator)
Mike Stoops: Arizona (career assistant)
Bob Stoops: OU (career assistant/DC)
Bo Pelini: Nebraska (career assistant)
Mike Leach: Texas Tech (OC at OU)

You all act like hiring an up and coming assistant is beneath us, yet the above schools did hire assistants and they all worked out just fine. Requiring that the new coach has HC experiecne should not even matter.

I would counter that UNT has hired it's share of former college assistants. Some had winning years but didn't produce overall winning coaching records at UNT...

Jerry Moore

Corky Nelson

Matt Simon

Darrell Dickey

Todd Dodge-

Green Mean · October 21, 2010

Folks, this is where RV and staff will make their money. The anus is on RV. It is all about background checks, interviewing, researching and even some luck. In the end there is never a sure thing but I think you can minimize a lot of doubt if the search is super detailed and in depth.

LongJim · October 21, 2010

Folks, this is where RV and staff will make their money. The anus is on RV. In the end there is never a sure thing but I think you can minimize a lot of doubt if the search is super detailed and in depth.

Total win.

GrayEagle · October 21, 2010

Folks, this is where RV and staff will make their money. The anus is on RV. It is all about background checks, interviewing, researching and even some luck. In the end there is never a sure thing but I think you can minimize a lot of doubt if the search is super detailed and in depth.

Uhh...I believe that the word is "onus." Then again, the way that some seem to feel about RV maybe it should be an a.

SilverEagle · October 21, 2010

Folks, this is where RV and staff will make their money. The anus is on RV. It is all about background checks, interviewing, researching and even some luck. In the end there is never a sure thing but I think you can minimize a lot of doubt if the search is super detailed and in depth.

:blink: Isn't that something that's on all of us?....hopefully in the right location.

I do agree with you that the onus is on Rick to get this done. He's been here for about 10 years now, and he should know enough about this school and it's culture to get the right kind of coach in here. I don't understand why a consultant is being hired to look for a coach. What the hell does a consulting firm know about North Texas?

MeanGreenTexan · October 21, 2010

I don't believe that that is how it works.

You hire the hungry up-and-comer who works his a$$ of to build the program up, which causes people to give more money etc. He then gets hired away from us, and we either hire the next "hungry up-and-comer" or a proven coach that was fired because he wasn't a good fit at his previous job, but for whatever reason, he's a better fit for North Texas. AND because of the hard work and success of the previous coach, we have enough money to hire the aforementioned "proven coach".

We were in the position to hire Hayden Fry because he was unjustly fired, he was a proven program builder (SMU) and he was hungry to prove that SMU were idiots for firing him. We were also in the position to hire him because we had a President (Jitter Nolan) who understood what it took to get a program going and got creative in paying Hayden (they paid him two salaries...HC and AD).

I don't think that situation will ever happen again, but there will always be young hungry coaches out there willing to work their a$$e$ off to get to the next level.

I don't think that DD was a very hungry coach.

I think it's clear who you want as the next head coach. A guy who is very hungry: Mark Mangino. Thanks for your input Silver!

cdizzle86 · October 21, 2010

Folks, this is where RV and staff will make their money. The anus is on RV. It is all about background checks, interviewing, researching and even some luck. In the end there is never a sure thing but I think you can minimize a lot of doubt if the search is super detailed and in depth.

Nailed it right on the hole.

UNTLifer · October 21, 2010

Those guys were all coordinators taking over positions at schools who had more money to risk than we did.

None of those situations listed were as dire as ours is.

Sumlin took over a winning program and a new stadium
Patterson took over a winning program with plans for facility improvements already in the can
Bob Stoops took over one of the highest profile schools in college football - it recruits itself and simply needs a non-idiot to guide it (SEE ALSO Texas, Michigan, Notre Dame, Alabama, etc.)
Bo Pelini - Ditto Bob Stoops. Anyone respectable coach ought to be able to win at Nebraska. Even Bill Callahan had them in the Big 12 championship game.
Leach took over a program that had been winning under Spike Dykes.

The only outlier is Mike Stoops, and Arizona had much more resources than we do...I mean, money. Being in a BCS conference means getting millions in bowl money whether you qualify for a bowl or not.

We don't have money or history. This is a job for a proven workhorse. After it gets off the ground, fine, go after an up and comer. But, it needs to be built first. None of those guys you mention really built what they have now.

Sumlin took over a program that Briles, a former position coach, turned around, but they do not have a new stadium.

Stoops: True, OU does recruit itself, but Blake almost ran the program into the ground, the same program where he had coached.

Pellini: Callahan's results were worse each year, and Nebraska went after an up and coming coordinator to take his place.

Leach: Again, the point is that he had no head coaching experience prior to coming to Lubbock.

Here are a few other "non-BcS" schools that have hired position coaches or coordinators that have been successful:

East Carolina: Ruffin McNeil; currently 4-2 and undefeated in conference.

Southen Miss: Larry Fedora; currently 5-2 and 2-1 in conference.

Rice: Graham prior to bolting for Tulsa turned that program around was previously a coordinator and assistant HC.

My point is that we don't necessarily need a coach with prior head coaching experience, just the energy and know how to lead a program.

UNT90 · October 21, 2010

First time I have agreed with TFLF in days, but he is pretty dead on.

The situation UNT finds itself in is needing a coach to come in and have a winning record by year 2. Could an experienced assistant accomplish this? Yes, but he hasn't done it do date and there is no promise that he will.

Someone like Franchoine or Leach have shown they can be successful. Does that mean they will again? No. But I think there is a much better chance than hitting the Asst Coach lottery.

That said, a tandem of Brent Venable as head coach and Chris Thomason as OC is wildly intriguing to me.

PlummMeanGreen · October 21, 2010

I would counter that UNT has hired it's share of former college assistants. Some had winning years but didn't produce overall winning coaching records at UNT...

Jerry Moore
Corky Nelson
Matt Simon
Darrell Dickey
Todd Dodge-

UNT needs an "impact" hire to go with our new "impact" football palace. Even the guy co-hosting Norms show today on The Ticket said our stadium would be better than Boise's so we will have a huge plus with this venue.

We need a "hungry to prove himself all over again" name coach and I think there may be 1 or 2 out there reading all the lists here. That person can't afford to come to UNT and fail like everyone has of late because that would be his personal Waterloo as far as getting another HFC's gig. He needs to be very hungry for success and spend all the kind of time he did when he first had to prove himself at his first HFC's gig.

GMG!

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 21, 2010

Sumlin took over a program that Briles, a former position coach, turned around, but they do not have a new stadium.
Stoops: True, OU does recruit itself, but Blake almost ran the program into the ground, the same program where he had coached.
Pellini: Callahan's results were worse each year, and Nebraska went after an up and coming coordinator to take his place.
Leach: Again, the point is that he had no head coaching experience prior to coming to Lubbock.

Here are a few other "non-BcS" schools that have hired position coaches or coordinators that have been successful:

East Carolina: Ruffin McNeil; currently 4-2 and undefeated in conference.
Southen Miss: Larry Fedora; currently 5-2 and 2-1 in conference.
Rice: Graham prior to bolting for Tulsa turned that program around was previously a coordinator and assistant HC.

My point is that we don't necessarily need a coach with prior head coaching experience, just the energy and know how to lead a program.

I get what you are saying, but look at Stoops and Pelini:

-Stoops walks onto OU's campus in 1999 and he's already got Rocky Calmus, Roy Williams, Andre Woolfolk, Ryan Fisher, Ontei Jones, an offensive line full of upperclassmen...I mean, Blake was still signing guys. He just couldn't coach them.

-Pelini. He goes to Nebraska and he's got Ndamukong Suh, Roy Helu, Niles Paul, Jared Crick, Prince Amukamara...and, eerily, John Blake also had a hand in recruiting many of those to Nebraska as an assistant.

But, what those guys walked into there and what our new coach will walk into here are completely different animals. Both are well known entities with multiple Heisman winners and national titles.

Nebraska was 5-7 the year before Pelini was hired, and 9-5 in 2006, and 8-4 in 2005. That was "down" for Nebraska.

OU was 5-6 in 1998, 4-8 in 1997, and 3-9 in 1996. I mean, even as bad as Blake was, they were inching toward betterness all along. And, OU's 1998 defense was led by Rex Ryan and was in the Top 20 nationally. The Sooner gave up 229 points in 1998 AND in Bob Stoops' first year 1999.

So, it's not like Bob Stoops walked into that thing and it was completely broken the way ours is. The defense was already there. All it needed was someone with half a brain in their head (and, I'd say Bob has about half), one JUCO quarterback, and a sense of direction on offense...which they got from Mike Leach being the offensive coordinator that season.

The point is, we don't really have the luxury of monkeying around with an unknown entity. Some assistants do well, as you point out. But, then you've got the Chuck Longs of the world who tank when given the keys.

All I'm saying is that, at this point in time, I'd feel much better seeing a Glen Mason or Jim Leavitt-type who has already taken programs and built them.