Talent Evaluation

[NTEX1990]

I think dodge may have a great football mind, but his ability to judge talent is what really did him in. How do these so called new high profile coaches come in and win with the same talent from the very 1st day they walk on campus?? they know how to get the most from what they have and build from it........... How many kids do we have on this team that are playing the wrong position and therefore not helping the team win now. How many kids have never gotten a chance that could help? Riley Dodge is a slot receiver, should have never been thought of as anything else. How many other examples are there?? Gary Patterson recruits big physical running backs and turns them into the top defense in the nation year in and year out. What have we done? what we have done is absolutely nothing and it is time for a change.

[Green Mean]

If he was a great football mind he wouldn't be 6-37 with being in the worst football conference in FBS. He is just a failure in all levels of being a college football coach.

[Army of Dad]

If he was a great football mind he wouldn't be 6-37 with being in the worst football conference in FBS. He is just a failure in all levels of being a college football coach.

We won't know that unless he tries his hand in D-II and D-III.

[KRAM1]

I think dodge may have a great football mind, but his ability to judge talent is what really did him in. How do these so called new high profile coaches come in and win with the same talent from the very 1st day they walk on campus?? they know how to get the most from what they have and build from it........... How many kids do we have on this team that are playing the wrong position and therefore not helping the team win now. How many kids have never gotten a chance that could help? Riley Dodge is a slot receiver, should have never been thought of as anything else. How many other examples are there?? Gary Patterson recruits big physical running backs and turns them into the top defense in the nation year in and year out. What have we done? what we have done is absolutely nothing and it is time for a change.

Should this sort of reasoning be applied to the offensive and defensive coordinators as well?

[MeanGreenTexan]

If he was a great football mind he wouldn't be 6-37 with being in the worst football conference in FBS. He is just a failure in all levels of being a college football coach.

Have you ever seen a 12 year old kid playing little league and he/she is so good that your eyes instantly find them on the field? (I ask because I coached little league soccer and have a few girls playing division 1 soccer right now)

What happens when you take this stud 12 year old, and put them on the High School Varsity team? They look completely overmatched. Eventually, they will grow and learn, and when they're 16-17, they'll be the best on that varsity team and your eyes will be drawn to their ability again.

I really think that Dodge is going to get a shot as a QB coach at an AQ school, or an O-coordinator at some other school (maybe starting in FCS or lower) and work his way back up to being a FBS head coach again (10 years or so). When he does, he'll be good.

[Harry]

I think dodge may have a great football mind, but his ability to judge talent is what really did him in. How do these so called new high profile coaches come in and win with the same talent from the very 1st day they walk on campus?? they know how to get the most from what they have and build from it........... How many kids do we have on this team that are playing the wrong position and therefore not helping the team win now. How many kids have never gotten a chance that could help? Riley Dodge is a slot receiver, should have never been thought of as anything else. How many other examples are there?? Gary Patterson recruits big physical running backs and turns them into the top defense in the nation year in and year out. What have we done? what we have done is absolutely nothing and it is time for a change.

On the talent evaluation part I think you hit the nail on the head. The talent differential against FIU, especially in the front lines was significant.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Have you ever seen a 12 year old kid playing little league and he/she is so good that your eyes instantly find them on the field? (I ask because I coached little league soccer and have a few girls playing division 1 soccer right now)

What happens when you take this stud 12 year old, and put them on the High School Varsity team? They look completely overmatched. Eventually, they will grow and learn, and when they're 16-17, they'll be the best on that varsity team and your eyes will be drawn to their ability again.

I really think that Dodge is going to get a shot as a QB coach at an AQ school, or an O-coordinator at some other school (maybe starting in FCS or lower) and work his way back up to being a FBS head coach again (10 years or so). When he does, he'll be good.

Maybe, but if I read this article correctly, it is a rare thing:

http://tysports.blogspot.com/2008/10/todd-dodge-equivalent-futility-list.html

[GrayEagle]

If it's talent evaluation then we might as well get rid of Rivals, Scout and the other evaluators of talent because they also don't have a clue.

There is no Sun Belt team that continually gets substantially higher rated players than the other teams. Troy appears to because of the number that they offer but we can't be sure how many (and the quality) of their recruiting class actually attend Troy University.

Sorry, that theory might work when getting beat by Oklahoma, Alabama, Clemson, et al but not when dominated by Belt teams. That would lie directly at the feet of the coaches.

Edited October 19, 2010 by GrayEagle

[GrandGreen]

There is a big difference between being able to identify talent and the ability to sign those athletes. NT by virtue of it's history, conference, and current performance is just not going to sign many identified primo athletes. There are two elements in the recruiting wars, beating out similar and sightly better competition for athletes and the ability to identify borderline prospects that there is little competition for that have fb talent.

Dodge's first year recruiting was horrible in hind sight, but he signed a great number of All everything type athletes. The problem though they were good high school athletes, they didn't have college level ability. I thought Dodge second year was one of the best recruiting years NT has had, he actually signed a number of athletes that had other opportunities. The last two years, Dodge and staff have basically had to fight over the leftovers of recruits, being basically non-competitive against Texas fb competition. Note, the relatively large number of out of state players. Yes, there are a few exceptions but in general, Dodge and staff got borderline athletics and took too many chances on the academically challenged.

I still do wonder why many of you continue to pound on Riley. A player that gives everything and has had a fair measure of success. He may not be strong enough to stay away from injury but the kid has a hell of a heart.

Every coach makes recruiting mistakes and the lower the team is on the food chain, the more risks are usually taken. One thing that has surprised me about Dodge is his failure to recruit a number of QBs. This recruit one a year may be alright for a team with an established QB rotation, but makes no sense when the team has no established hierarchy of QB's. He has also failed more often than not, with high school receivers; a position that should be easy for him to recruit.

Discussing Dodge's recruiting now is probably totally counter productive. Hopefully, NT hires a coach that can create enough excitement to quickly upgrade recruiting. You have to give Dodge and staff some credit, I think they have really worked hard at recruiting; but it hard to out recruit your record and conference. There is no reason that NT should not out recruit the other Belt teams and be able to compete with the bottom half of the Texas teams, but it is not going to be easy. You generally have to win to recruit well, and to win you have to have talent. The new coach because of the lack of depth is probably going to have to continue to hit the jucos hard and slowing reduce the reliance on transfers.

[shaft]

I don't think it was Dodge's talent radar that was the problem. It was is coaching talent radar.

He brought in guys that weren't ready for college, and college guys would come work for him. He ran off guys he shouldn't have.

He got absolutely nothing out of his first year. The Dodge lovers and apologist on this board try to say the cupboard was bare, but it was really the cooks fault.

[pollock]

I don't think talent evaluation was the problem. He recruited really well at Southlake.

[greeneagle69]

There is a big difference between being able to identify talent and the ability to sign those athletes. NT by virtue of it's history, conference, and current performance is just not going to sign many identified primo athletes. There are two elements in the recruiting wars, beating out similar and sightly better competition for athletes and the ability to identify borderline prospects that there is little competition for that have fb talent.

Dodge's first year recruiting was horrible in hind sight, but he signed a great number of All everything type athletes. The problem though they were good high school athletes, they didn't have college level ability. I thought Dodge second year was one of the best recruiting years NT has had, he actually signed a number of athletes that had other opportunities. The last two years, Dodge and staff have basically had to fight over the leftovers of recruits, being basically non-competitive against Texas fb competition. Note, the relatively large number of out of state players. Yes, there are a few exceptions but in general, Dodge and staff got borderline athletics and took too many chances on the academically challenged.

I still do wonder why many of you continue to pound on Riley. A player that gives everything and has had a fair measure of success. He may not be strong enough to stay away from injury but the kid has a hell of a heart.

Every coach makes recruiting mistakes and the lower the team is on the food chain, the more risks are usually taken. One thing that has surprised me about Dodge is his failure to recruit a number of QBs. This recruit one a year may be alright for a team with an established QB rotation, but makes no sense when the team has no established hierarchy of QB's. He has also failed more often than not, with high school receivers; a position that should be easy for him to recruit.

Discussing Dodge's recruiting now is probably totally counter productive. Hopefully, NT hires a coach that can create enough excitement to quickly upgrade recruiting. You have to give Dodge and staff some credit, I think they have really worked hard at recruiting; but it hard to out recruit your record and conference. There is no reason that NT should not out recruit the other Belt teams and be able to compete with the bottom half of the Texas teams, but it is not going to be easy. You generally have to win to recruit well, and to win you have to have talent. The new coach because of the lack of depth is probably going to have to continue to hit the jucos hard and slowing reduce the reliance on transfers.

You make some excellent points !!!! I have a question for all the Dodge haters....since he never measured up to your expectations....what are you gonna say if he ever comes back as an opposing coach and beats us ???? Will he be good enough,smart enough, talent savvy enough, then ???? Coach Dodge, I wish you well. Thank for your efforts !!! I hope you prove all these guys wrong....just dont beat us doing it !!

[MeanGreenDan]

I don't think talent evaluation was the problem. He recruited really well at Southlake.

Very nice.

[TheTastyGreek]

You make some excellent points !!!! I have a question for all the Dodge haters....since he never measured up to your expectations....what are you gonna say if he ever comes back as an opposing coach and beats us ???? Will he be good enough,smart enough, talent savvy enough, then ???? Coach Dodge, I wish you well. Thank for your efforts !!! I hope you prove all these guys wrong....just dont beat us doing it !!

You can't hardly tell at first, not till they get to the point of slobbering and staggering around. When you see a Coach in that fix, you know for sure. But you want to watch for others that ain't that far along. Now, you take a bobcat or a fox. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, or maybe makes fight at you, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. After he's bitten you, it's too late.

[GrandGreen]

You make some excellent points !!!! I have a question for all the Dodge haters....since he never measured up to your expectations....what are you gonna say if he ever comes back as an opposing coach and beats us ???? Will he be good enough,smart enough, talent savvy enough, then ???? Coach Dodge, I wish you well. Thank for your efforts !!! I hope you prove all these guys wrong....just dont beat us doing it !!

Well I guess I am just as worried about Matt Simon and especially the demon Dickey down the road. I would be happy if any of them succeed, Jerry Moore turned in to a good coach decades and a few schools after he left the Green. I do think that Dodge will once again be successful and I would not be surprised if it ultimately is as a FB division hc, but his time at NT had to end.

[rcade]

You make some excellent points !!!! I have a question for all the Dodge haters....since he never measured up to your expectations....what are you gonna say if he ever comes back as an opposing coach and beats us ???? Will he be good enough,smart enough, talent savvy enough, then ???? Coach Dodge, I wish you well. Thank for your efforts !!! I hope you prove all these guys wrong....just dont beat us doing it !!

You are too emotionally invested in Coach Dodge. I could understand that when he was still the coach, because you were showing loyalty to the school, but he's just a coach. They get hired to get fired. He knew that the day he arrived.

The answer to your question is that most of us so-called "Dodge haters" will not freak out if he comes back and does well with a new team. But if UNT does well under the next coach, Dodge's woes will be forgotten and people will remember how he handled himself.

[Green Mean]

You make some excellent points !!!! I have a question for all the Dodge haters....since he never measured up to your expectations....what are you gonna say if he ever comes back as an opposing coach and beats us ???? Will he be good enough,smart enough, talent savvy enough, then ???? Coach Dodge, I wish you well. Thank for your efforts !!! I hope you prove all these guys wrong....just dont beat us doing it !!

If Dodge rejuvenates himself, learns from other credible coaches and makes his way up again in the college level and becomes a HC again then more power to him. But even if you gave Dodge 10 years here it just wasn't going to work out. The jump was too big from HS to FBS and it was clearly overwhelming for him. If he beats our ass 10 years down the road as a HC then I won't think anything of it because it was just never going to work out here.