Would A New Coach Right Now Make Sense?

Green Mean · October 18, 2010

WHOOPS!!!!

I was thinking he signed a 4 year contract. So I said let him finish out his contract because I just don't think firing a head coach in-season is ever a good thing to do. Dodge needs to go after this year. Sorry for my mistake.

Yup. I guess 5 years is sort of a standard guarantee but I wonder if we can offer our next coach a 5 year deal but only make 3 years of it guaranteed and the last two years as an option year for each.

oldguystudent · October 18, 2010

It's really too bad that coaching contracts can't be written like sales positions. You get a $50,000 base salary, and everything else is based on accomplishments, with quotas in place. You get $X for each win, bowl appearance, conference championship, etc. Profit sharing from revenue via ticket/suite sales, merchandise, television/radio revenue. If you're coming on after a complete debacle of a predecessor, your goals are set accordingly so they can realistically be achieved, but you have a huge upside should you surpass them. You fail to achieve the goals set forth at the beginning of a given season, and you get put on a performance improvement plan (hereafter known as a PIP). Two consecutive seasons of failing to achieve goals, and you're moving on to other pastures. It's all about accomplishment and long term growth. Unfortunately any given athletic department is stuck giving away guaranteed stipends and long term contracts that trap the department into the deal no matter how far south it goes.

meangreendork · October 18, 2010

The number of people who will show up for an interim coach who would not show up for Dodge is tiny at best. The one's who won't come back till NT shows it's serious by doing (insert something here) won't come back because we have a caretaker losing instead of Dodge losing.

That's like suggesting current sales for the new stadium would be better if we fired Dodge. I was told by multiple people in the athletic department trying to sell me Club seats on Saturday that sales are at or above the original expectations so far. The one's who can make that level of commitment know we will change coaches and aren't waiting for the change in significant numbers.

Yeah, we're kind of stuck. We can't really expect great attendance now because of the poor W/L record. Toss Dodge out, we can't expect wins. Keep Dodge, we can't expect wins.

I think RV needs to show he's serious and boot Dodge and replace him with an experienced "FBS or whatever the hell we are" coach. I love how RV has done so much by improving facilities and by improving the spirit of the student body. That's outstanding, especially here. The momentum is on our side with just about every other sport doing really well right now, the facilities on the way, now we need a solid football coach to get that extra step.

yyz28 · October 18, 2010

I'm inclined to agree that you inform him now, make it public, let him finish the year and then re-assign him next year and bring in a new coach.

I understand the advantage of getting it done now so we have the time to get a new coach, etc. ...but there is no reason not to let Dodge finish his season, especially since none of his assiatants are likely the guy they are going to get.

VideoEagle · October 18, 2010

Yeah, we're kind of stuck. We can't really expect great attendance now because of the poor W/L record. Toss Dodge out, we can't expect wins. Keep Dodge, we can't expect wins.

I think RV needs to show he's serious and boot Dodge and replace him with an experienced "FBS or whatever the hell we are" coach. I love how RV has done so much by improving facilities and by improving the spirit of the student body. That's outstanding, especially here. The momentum is on our side with just about every other sport doing really well right now, the facilities on the way, now we need a solid football coach to get that extra step.

I think there is no question that Dodge should not come back next year. But, unlike his two most recent predecessors, Todd Dodge has not gone out of his way to insult fans, donors, other in the athletics department and the university in general. Each week I hear him say "No woulda, coulda, shoulda; we just didn't execute well enough to win the game." Then he finds something to praise in some player's performance, Dodge is doing everything else the right way but he just isn't winning and that's why he must go.

When NT fired Dickey the week after he had a heart attack, Dickey got a lot of sympathy from the media. To this day, firms that train executives on how to handle public relations use the firing of Tom Landry as an example of how NOT to do something. There is a right way and a wrong way to handle a termination. Firing Dodge during the season to replace him with an interim coach has very little positive potential and a lot of negative potential.

Now, if you are going to fire him and replace him immediately with a new coach that can start recruiting then you have more positive potential. But I can't see that happening. For now we are just stuck.

risinggreen · October 18, 2010

Reassigning him now would probably alienate a lot of people and the damage has already been done anyway. Barring a truly miraculous finish including a victory over K-State, I would be absolutely shocked if he is not gone this year after witnessing that Homecoming debacle on Saturday. Hell, we only gave a sickly DD 2 years after he gave us 4 bowls in a row, and I don't see why TD deserves any more special treatment at this point. So I say let him finish the season, and I certainly hope that RV begins the process of sending out feelers and such now. It would be nice if we could have someone in place by early December.

eulessismore · October 19, 2010

I have been a Dodge fan from the start and I still am. I am here to say that I want to win so if a new coach is the answer, then fine by me. Would a new coach right now make the most sense? I understand that from a recruiting point, you would like to have as much time as you can get with a new regime.

If TD is let go, who fills his shoes for the rest of this season...Canalas? Maybe so...does he stay on as the new head coach or just in the interim?
It would make sense to make the switch now if he is going to be the guy from here on out. If he is not, then I struggle to find the reason to let TD go right now.

I mean, we're freakin 1-6. Hopefully we can finish the season 2-10 or by miracle 3-9. I don't know if switching coaches right now REALLY improves our chances of winning games this year. Again, if Canalas is the guy and he keeps most of the staff intact, then I see the reasoning. If not, then why not let the current crew finish the year and clean house after the season is over? Thoughts?

Well...I won't bother rating this post, because after reading it twice, I only became more uncertain as to what you're trying to say.

My initial impression, which I guess I'll stick with, is that you're being disingenuous:

disingenuous, from the American Heritage Dictionary:

Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating.

First, I find it troubling that you define yourself as "a Dodge fan from the start and still am". Are you not a fan of UNT more than one coach? Will you be around after he (almost certainly) is not?

Second, you say that you "want to win, so if a new coach is the answer, then fine by me". I don't recall anyone here saying that just any new coach will be the answer without someone else correcting them, but it seems lame to speak in such broad generalities,

Third, you get to your actual premise, which is whether a "new" coach right now would make sense, but can't ever bring yourself to use the term "interim", so that we could all just mentally recall all the existing threads dealing with that topic.

Finally, you finish that paragraph; on to the second:

Fourth, ask "If TD is let go, who fills his shoes for the rest of this season...Canalas?". Did you ever think you might you might check somewhere like meangreensports.com so as to know that his last name is "Canales" rather than "Canalas"?

Fifth, ask "does he stay on as the new head coach or just in the interim?". Does that usually get determined with 5 games to coach? I guess Bill Stewart at West Virginia made a convincing case in one bowl game, but hey, we'd have 5 times that many chances to evaluate Canales or whoever else (Gandy?).

Sixth, finally say something in your second paragraph: "If he is not ("the guy from here on out"), then I struggle to find the reason to let TD go right now", so...

To your final paragraph:

Seventh: "I mean, we're freakin 1-6". That's the part I find most disingenuous, trying to justify retaining someone as coach (through the end of the season, or however long your status as his "fan" lasts?) by citing his (typical) 1-6 record so far this year.

Eighth: "Hopefully we can finish the season 2-10 or by miracle 3-9. I don't know if switching coaches right now REALLY improves our chances of winning games this year". So, your "hope" is for one more win, with a schedule including two teams with first year coaches WKU and ULM. Would a "miracle" at 3-9 then justify retaining Dodge or whoever might be the "interim" (or our "new" coach), however you can bring yourself to frame it?

Ninth: "Again, if Canalas is the guy and he keeps most of the staff intact, then I see the reasoning. If not, then why not let the current crew finish the year and clean house after the season is over?" Again, wouldn't we know something about whether he or another assistant were "the guy" if given a chance to prove themselves? Or, can you only frame a question in such a way as to only consider two extremes, thinking a "new (not interim) coach" being only considered if he is "the guy" would seem so unattractive that we would all embrace this status quo because "I don't know if switching coaches right now REALLY improves our chances of winning games this year". Man, how would you or anyone else REALLY KNOW that, especially if was not at least attempted.

Tenth: "Thoughts?" I think you don't realize that even the POSSIBILITY of a win or two or three might mean a lot to the current players, students, and those who attend games. Anyone who still thinks this team doesn't need at least some HOPE of a few wins in this season didn't look at their faces as they went into the stadium last Saturday. Also, I think you're such a Dodge fan that you hold out hopes that, by some double miracle, he wins those 4 games some other "Dodge to the end" fan was saying as the minimum win threshold for him to return next year, and that the powers that be decide to bring him back for year 5. Also, I feel bad for writing such things as this about you, with your cute little kid avatar, but I tell myself I'm not against you, just the arguments(?) you've presented, just as I have nothing against (and great respect for) Coach Todd Dodge. It's just time to realize that this was not meant to be.

KingDL1 · October 19, 2010

Wait until the season's over. As evidenced by Mr. Mosley we have a lot of players who, recruited by Dodge, still believe in and respect him. A good amount of those players will also be trusted to revive this program when and if a change is made. I'm sure most of the players understand that a change is needed and would be ok with that happening at season's end. But to humiliate Dodge by dropping him now may do more bad than good.

I can introduce you to several parents and fans that have a different view then this, they tell me that Dodge has totally lost the team, and they can't wait for TD to go. If you saw the players walk to the stadium you would know this is true.

Second why does anyone think letting Dodge coach out the season is Classy? He is struggling horribly, he has lost the team, the fan base is choking, man oh man RV we need some Damage Control. Please stop the bleeding, we need a sign some reason to believe the AD is worried about what is going on.

Please let Todd Dodge move on to the next chapter of his life, reassign him or cut him loose for all that is good in the world.

Tomorrow can't be too soon.

Edited October 19, 2010 by KingDL1

Green Dozer · October 19, 2010

UNT should make the move now for several reasons;

1) The most important- The new stadium and trying to sell suites and club seating. Right now, there is zero hope for the future of this team. Reassigning Dodge and replacing him with an interm coach (it doesn't matter who it is) would at least show future investers in the stadium that changes are coming and give them a reason to spend their money.

2) This is the perfect time to make a move. A bye week upcoming, allowing 2 weeks for the interm coach to get settled in.

3) The coaching search can get under way in full public view. No backroom contacts need to be made.

It's like removing a bandaid. If you know you are going to do it, just grab it and rip it off. Trying to peal it back slowly just prolongs the pain.

You really think a coach at another school, head or assistant, is going to really want it known that he is seeking another job at this point in the season?

Green Dozer · October 19, 2010

Dodge should do the classy and right thing then and give up his salary for a year as the athletic program will likely lose a ton of money if they keep him for another year and he doesn't deliver with a winning season. The Athletic Department could then pay him for 12 games at the end of the regular season if he wins 7 or more games with 20,000 in average attendance.

Like you would do if you were in his position? It is neither the classy or right thing. Do you give away half your check when you screw up at your job? Ever made a mistake in your computer programming? And please don't answer that he should because of the amount of money he has made, and still will get paid. He got a salary commensurate with the position. We agreed to the contract and we should honor it. In hindsight, maybe wins, losses, and attendance should have been a part of it, but they weren't.

eulessismore · October 19, 2010

Like you would do if you were in his position? It is neither the classy or right thing. Do you give away half your check when you screw up at your job? Ever made a mistake in your computer programming? And please don't answer that he should because of the amount of money he has made, and still will get paid. He got a salary commensurate with the position. We agreed to the contract and we should honor it. In hindsight, maybe wins, losses, and attendance should have been a part of it, but they weren't.

Hey, I don't begrudge Dodge not quitting; my wife would kill me if I left $200 big ones on the table. It's RV's job to get the personnel actions right.

Green Mean · October 19, 2010

You really think a coach at another school, head or assistant, is going to really want it known that he is seeking another job at this point in the season?

This happens all the time. That's the way college coaching go. Who cares about being classy. It's the dumbest point I've heard in a long time. The vibe going on around NT football is very cancerous. It is clear that he has lost the players, the fanbase, and he's made this already joke of a program even more of a joke. Get him the heck out of Denton.

UNT90 · October 19, 2010

You really think a coach at another school, head or assistant, is going to really want it known that he is seeking another job at this point in the season?

No, talk to them backroom. Talk to the Leach, Coach Fran, Levitt type candidates NOW. We don't need a coordinator, we need a proven college head coach.

jimbob · October 19, 2010

I can introduce you to several parents and fans that have a different view then this, they tell me that Dodge has totally lost the team, and they can't wait for TD to go. If you saw the players walk to the stadium you would know this is true.

Second why does anyone think letting Dodge coach out the season is Classy? He is struggling horribly, he has lost the team, the fan base is choking, man oh man RV we need some Damage Control. Please stop the bleeding, we need a sign some reason to believe the AD is worried about what is going on.

Please let Todd Dodge move on to the next chapter of his life, reassign him or cut him loose for all that is good in the world.

Tomorrow can't be too soon.

This is correct. The team has lost faith in TD. He's actually never been a players coach at UNT. Too many initial mistakes in hiring his buddies from high school.

Travis Scott · October 19, 2010

Well...I won't bother rating this post, because after reading it twice, I only became more uncertain as to what you're trying to say.

My initial impression, which I guess I'll stick with, is that you're being disingenuous:

disingenuous, from the American Heritage Dictionary:

Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating.
First, I find it troubling that you define yourself as "a Dodge fan from the start and still am". Are you not a fan of UNT more than one coach? Will you be around after he (almost certainly) is not?

Second, you say that you "want to win, so if a new coach is the answer, then fine by me". I don't recall anyone here saying that just any new coach will be the answer without someone else correcting them, but it seems lame to speak in such broad generalities,

Third, you get to your actual premise, which is whether a "new" coach right now would make sense, but can't ever bring yourself to use the term "interim", so that we could all just mentally recall all the existing threads dealing with that topic.

Finally, you finish that paragraph; on to the second:

Fourth, ask "If TD is let go, who fills his shoes for the rest of this season...Canalas?". Did you ever think you might you might check somewhere like meangreensports.com so as to know that his last name is "Canales" rather than "Canalas"?

Fifth, ask "does he stay on as the new head coach or just in the interim?". Does that usually get determined with 5 games to coach? I guess Bill Stewart at West Virginia made a convincing case in one bowl game, but hey, we'd have 5 times that many chances to evaluate Canales or whoever else (Gandy?).

Sixth, finally say something in your second paragraph: "If he is not ("the guy from here on out"), then I struggle to find the reason to let TD go right now", so...

To your final paragraph:

Seventh: "I mean, we're freakin 1-6". That's the part I find most disingenuous, trying to justify retaining someone as coach (through the end of the season, or however long your status as his "fan" lasts?) by citing his (typical) 1-6 record so far this year.

Eighth: "Hopefully we can finish the season 2-10 or by miracle 3-9. I don't know if switching coaches right now REALLY improves our chances of winning games this year". So, your "hope" is for one more win, with a schedule including two teams with first year coaches WKU and ULM. Would a "miracle" at 3-9 then justify retaining Dodge or whoever might be the "interim" (or our "new" coach), however you can bring yourself to frame it?

Ninth: "Again, if Canalas is the guy and he keeps most of the staff intact, then I see the reasoning. If not, then why not let the current crew finish the year and clean house after the season is over?" Again, wouldn't we know something about whether he or another assistant were "the guy" if given a chance to prove themselves? Or, can you only frame a question in such a way as to only consider two extremes, thinking a "new (not interim) coach" being only considered if he is "the guy" would seem so unattractive that we would all embrace this status quo because "I don't know if switching coaches right now REALLY improves our chances of winning games this year". Man, how would you or anyone else REALLY KNOW that, especially if was not at least attempted.

Tenth: "Thoughts?" I think you don't realize that even the POSSIBILITY of a win or two or three might mean a lot to the current players, students, and those who attend games. Anyone who still thinks this team doesn't need at least some HOPE of a few wins in this season didn't look at their faces as they went into the stadium last Saturday. Also, I think you're such a Dodge fan that you hold out hopes that, by some double miracle, he wins those 4 games some other "Dodge to the end" fan was saying as the minimum win threshold for him to return next year, and that the powers that be decide to bring him back for year 5. Also, I feel bad for writing such things as this about you, with your cute little kid avatar, but I tell myself I'm not against you, just the arguments(?) you've presented, just as I have nothing against (and great respect for) Coach Todd Dodge. It's just time to realize that this was not meant to be.

wow. Ok. Feel better now?

eppy4life · October 19, 2010

Well...I won't bother rating this post, because after reading it twice, I only became more uncertain as to what you're trying to say.

My initial impression, which I guess I'll stick with, is that you're being disingenuous:

disingenuous, from the American Heritage Dictionary:

Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating.
First, I find it troubling that you define yourself as "a Dodge fan from the start and still am". Are you not a fan of UNT more than one coach? Will you be around after he (almost certainly) is not?

Second, you say that you "want to win, so if a new coach is the answer, then fine by me". I don't recall anyone here saying that just any new coach will be the answer without someone else correcting them, but it seems lame to speak in such broad generalities,

Third, you get to your actual premise, which is whether a "new" coach right now would make sense, but can't ever bring yourself to use the term "interim", so that we could all just mentally recall all the existing threads dealing with that topic.

Finally, you finish that paragraph; on to the second:

Fourth, ask "If TD is let go, who fills his shoes for the rest of this season...Canalas?". Did you ever think you might you might check somewhere like meangreensports.com so as to know that his last name is "Canales" rather than "Canalas"?

Fifth, ask "does he stay on as the new head coach or just in the interim?". Does that usually get determined with 5 games to coach? I guess Bill Stewart at West Virginia made a convincing case in one bowl game, but hey, we'd have 5 times that many chances to evaluate Canales or whoever else (Gandy?).

Sixth, finally say something in your second paragraph: "If he is not ("the guy from here on out"), then I struggle to find the reason to let TD go right now", so...

To your final paragraph:

Seventh: "I mean, we're freakin 1-6". That's the part I find most disingenuous, trying to justify retaining someone as coach (through the end of the season, or however long your status as his "fan" lasts?) by citing his (typical) 1-6 record so far this year.

Eighth: "Hopefully we can finish the season 2-10 or by miracle 3-9. I don't know if switching coaches right now REALLY improves our chances of winning games this year". So, your "hope" is for one more win, with a schedule including two teams with first year coaches WKU and ULM. Would a "miracle" at 3-9 then justify retaining Dodge or whoever might be the "interim" (or our "new" coach), however you can bring yourself to frame it?

Ninth: "Again, if Canalas is the guy and he keeps most of the staff intact, then I see the reasoning. If not, then why not let the current crew finish the year and clean house after the season is over?" Again, wouldn't we know something about whether he or another assistant were "the guy" if given a chance to prove themselves? Or, can you only frame a question in such a way as to only consider two extremes, thinking a "new (not interim) coach" being only considered if he is "the guy" would seem so unattractive that we would all embrace this status quo because "I don't know if switching coaches right now REALLY improves our chances of winning games this year". Man, how would you or anyone else REALLY KNOW that, especially if was not at least attempted.

Tenth: "Thoughts?" I think you don't realize that even the POSSIBILITY of a win or two or three might mean a lot to the current players, students, and those who attend games. Anyone who still thinks this team doesn't need at least some HOPE of a few wins in this season didn't look at their faces as they went into the stadium last Saturday. Also, I think you're such a Dodge fan that you hold out hopes that, by some double miracle, he wins those 4 games some other "Dodge to the end" fan was saying as the minimum win threshold for him to return next year, and that the powers that be decide to bring him back for year 5. Also, I feel bad for writing such things as this about you, with your cute little kid avatar, but I tell myself I'm not against you, just the arguments(?) you've presented, just as I have nothing against (and great respect for) Coach Todd Dodge. It's just time to realize that this was not meant to be.

I can't believe you'd take, or have, the time to write this. If you need a couple more blogs to read to take up your time I can give you some good ones.

Green Dozer · October 20, 2010

This happens all the time. That's the way college coaching go. Who cares about being classy. It's the dumbest point I've heard in a long time. The vibe going on around NT football is very cancerous. It is clear that he has lost the players, the fanbase, and he's made this already joke of a program even more of a joke. Get him the heck out of Denton.

Duh, really? Thanks for your insight (NOT). My reply was to the fact that a head coach, or even assistant at another school is not going to want it to be made public he is seeking a job at this point in time. I took 90's post as there should be a "public" search right now, and I disagreed with that. SHould RV talk to anybody and everybody, heck yes! Only in private for now.

Green Dozer · October 20, 2010

No, talk to them backroom. Talk to the Leach, Coach Fran, Levitt type candidates NOW. We don't need a coordinator, we need a proven college head coach.

Cool, I get it. Just questioning the public part at this time. Thanks!