We Are Witnessing The End...

[houstonmeangreen]

I think the move, whatever it is, has to be done by Monday. The stands were pathetic in the 2nd half tonight. Once the stands get that bare and apathetic, the change has to come immediately. I bet on reassigning him within the Athletic Department, at least until the end of the year. I heard some rumblings that SLC wants him back. It that is the case, I think he goes back. Hand the reigns over to Canales or DeLoach for the rest of the year. They have a bye this coming Saturday, so they can use this off week to adjust to the change. I hate to say this because of the overall improvements in the program itself, but he has to move on.

Listening to the postgame interview tonight, you could pretty much hear the realization in Dodge's voice that he knows it's over.

Once the stands get that bare and apathetic, the change has to come immediately

exactly...the students and fans need to see immediately that RV hears them and this will not be accepted...no more status quo at UNT...expectations will be higher, the people supporting the program will be listen to and UNT plans to set the standard for non AQ football programs....he better move quickly, because all eyes are upon him at this time, assessing his leadership of a program that failed 2 years ago and has now hit bottom.

[yyz28]

Well, lots of anger here. I think the attack on RV is just silly and strikes me as rather uninformed. Measuring his performance in a context vacuum is kinda stupid. If you don't see how positive RV has been for UNT athletics, then you really don't have an understanding of the history here. Even the Dodge hire seemed like a home run at the time. The VAST majority of the fan base supported the hire (myself included) and the local media. It didn't work out, now he needs to make a change and will. What else do you want an AD to do?

[Green Mean]

I like RV and think he deserves more time. For what has been done during RV's tenure whether he had anything to do with it or not...you can't deny the improvement the overall athletics department has made. I've always believed that if you want to rip a guy for the bad stuff then you have to give him equal praise for the good things or when things go well. The TD experiment was a huge blunder and it has sort of created fighting within the fan base. RV knows he can't eff this hire up. This ultimately may decide where we end up in the athletics landscape in the years coming. I think RV was in a position where very few guys could handle and win and with what he's had to battle here he's done a heck of a job.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

What else do you want an AD to do?

Be smarter than the vast majority of casual college fans and the local media.

Raise more money.

Capitalize on a city that is growing faster than Mark Cuban's ego.

Actually grow the MGC, instead of doubling the minimum donation (so it looks like he raised more money).

...

[GreenMachine]

Well, lots of anger here. I think the attack on RV is just silly and strikes me as rather uninformed. Measuring his performance in a context vacuum is kinda stupid. If you don't see how positive RV has been for UNT athletics, then you really don't have an understanding of the history here. Even the Dodge hire seemed like a home run at the time. The VAST majority of the fan base supported the hire (myself included) and the local media. It didn't work out, now he needs to make a change and will. What else do you want an AD to do?

I understand what you are saying but you are comparing RV to Helwig, probably the worst AD in the history of mankind. When RV got here there was no tailgating, probably the only school in the nation that didn't have tailgating. So coming in and setting up some type of tailgating wasn't a spectacular feat, it was doing what all the other schools had already been doing. I agree that RV has done a good job here but you have to look at who he is compared to. The stadium fee had very little to do with RV, the female facilities, again they are a lot nicer than they were but look at what was here. Also, besides the tennis facility, the other female facilities are probably on par with the rest of the belt. He has had 1 good coaching hire in JJ and the rest have been nothing to write home about.

Look at it this way. A girl weighs 450 lbs and goes on a diet. She loses 150lbs (which is very impressive and quite an accomplishment) but she still weighs 300lbs. Is she a lot better (healthier) than before? yes she sure is. Is she going to win a fitness or health contest? Not a chance.

Helwig = 450 lb girl (bad)

RV = 300 lb girl (not quite as bad)

Edited October 17, 2010 by GreenMachine

[Green Mean]

Be smarter than the vast majority of casual college fans and the local media.

Raise more money.

Capitalize on a city that is growing faster than Mark Cuban's ego.

Actually grow the MGC, instead of doubling the minimum donation (so it looks like he raised more money).

...

I agree with all of those points but you have to have people that want to donate, give to the MGC etc. Raising money has always been an issue here but right now it is tough not only with the economy but because of the product we have on the field and the culture of losing. All of those things will certainly change once we get a guy to start winning here and change the perception of the program. We know one thing and that is TD won't be here so all of that change starts now.

[Travis Scott]

How many years does he need? He has had plenty of years to produce. We have lost scholarships, had a slew of atheletes in jail, been the bottom of football, passed by in conference reallignments and a we suffer from his huge hand picked gamble. He gets too much credit for the stadium and AC. You should thank the student body and the UNT administration, not RV. He is a completely mediocre AD. Schools like FIU and WKU with WAY less means and advantages, somehow have ADs that produce more than ours.

If Dodge gets punished for having to learn on the job, then RV should feel the same pain. He appears to still be learning on the job too.

Football is only one sport under a very successful athletic program. Yes, I realize that football is king here in Texas and the largest revenue producing program...but blaming RV for the outcome of football games is funny. Yes, TD did not work out...RV already addressed this at the beginning of the season and I believe he'll keep his word and remove the coach given the outcome so far this season. Blaming RV for the wins and losses is the wrong place...we know it's coaching and there is a change coming.

[Cr1028]

The most pathetic looking stands that I have seen here since the Abilene Christian game many years ago and we actually won that game in overwhelming fashion. Time for a change. I wish he would just quit, but we all know that money is top priority in this day and age, Really a sad and depressing situation that we have gotten ourselves into with this failed experiment.

I don't think you quite get it.

Picture this:

You suck at your job and your boss is on your a$$ about it. You know it isn't working out and want to quit to avoid further embarrassment. Not only do you give up your future salary but you have to come up with $200k out of your own pocket just to get out of your contract.

Anyone with sense or less than a few million dollars in the bank wouldn't quit in that situation either.

[TheGraDo]

just found this last night. if you feel like jumping on the facebook fire todd dodge bandwagon:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fire-Todd-Dodge/140977235944847

[Cr1028]

How many years does he need? He has had plenty of years to produce. We have lost scholarships, had a slew of atheletes in jail, been the bottom of football, passed by in conference reallignments and a we suffer from his huge hand picked gamble. He gets too much credit for the stadium and AC. You should thank the student body and the UNT administration, not RV. He is a completely mediocre AD. Schools like FIU and WKU with WAY less means and advantages, somehow have ADs that produce more than ours.

If Dodge gets punished for having to learn on the job, then RV should feel the same pain. He appears to still be learning on the job too.

I think you are misguided.

Reported budgets from Equity in Athletics

$21,270,000 - FIU

$21,003,000 - WKU

$17,205,000 - Muts

$16,622,000 - UNT

$14,389,000 - Troy

$14,110,000 - FAU

$12,875,000 - USA

$12,000,000 - ULL

$10,745,000 - Arkansas State

$7,908,000 - ULM

[Green Mean]

just found this last night. if you feel like jumping on the facebook fire todd dodge bandwagon:

http://www.facebook....140977235944847

I wonder if it is anyone on the board who made this page. Will to Win? Shaft?

[yyz28]

Helwig = 450 lb girl (bad)

RV = 300 lb girl (not quite as bad)

That may be the worst analogy ever used on this board...

[PlummMeanGreen]

Guys, Rick won't make the same mistake twice. I've got more faith in him than I used to. It took alot of guts for him to call a guy like me cold and call me to the carpet for some of my criticisms of Dodge after the 2008 season.

But, you know what? Rick heard me out. Whether he believed the criticisms I brought up on that day, I don't know. I know he believes me now. The results are too overwhelming not to.

I didn't support what he did when he hired Dodge back in 2006, but I respect that he took the gamble and the criticism for it. He kept moving forward with the stadium plan - which, considering the meat of it has taken place in what is now three years worth of awful economic times - and has been more successful than I imagined. I didn't believe it would happen until it started physically happening.

Give Rick a break. With the money at the time, he did what he felt he could. He wants to win as badly as we do. He gambled and lost this time. But, deal him in again. With the stadium as a chip, he'll come up a winner this time.

Rick V's legacy with most of us will be the new football stadium. His second claim to UNT fame will be the "name coach" he hires in merely weeks. We're OK.

GMG!

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

I think you are misguided.

That actually validates me.

We have a top 10 media market. A top five metroplex population. Triple those schools student bodies. Tons more alumni and famous alums.

Yet we don't even have their budgets after 10 years under RV?

That is misguided.

[foutsrouts]

That actually validates me.

We have a top 10 media market. A top five metroplex population. Triple those schools student bodies. Tons more alumni and famous alums.

Yet we don't even have their budgets after 10 years under RV?

That is misguided.

We've also been playing football for close to a hundred years, and most of our conference mates are just getting started. Sad.

[shaft]

Rick V's legacy with most of us will be the new football stadium. His second claim to UNT fame will be the "name coach" he hires in merely weeks. We're OK.

GMG!

Is the third claim to fame the 'stache?

[UNT90]

Rick V's The 2008 student government legacy with most of us will be the new football stadium. His second claim to UNT fame will be the "name coach" he hires in merely weeks. We're OK.

GMG!

Fixed it for you.

Kind of neutral on RV (pending this next football hire, which has to be right), but let's give credit where credit is due.

The stadium would be RV's legacy if it was completely funded by donations. He would deserve all the credit in the world if that were the case. It isn't and he doesn't.

[Cr1028]

That actually validates me.

We have a top 10 media market. A top five metroplex population. Triple those schools student bodies. Tons more alumni and famous alums.

Yet we don't even have their budgets after 10 years under RV?

That is misguided.

The Dallas Cowboys, Texas Longhorns, and to a degree the Oklahoma Sooners, saturate this top 10 market you speak of. Very few of our famous alums even acknowledge our existance. I can't think of any besides Joe Greene. I haven't heard Don Henley, Norah Jones, or Dr. Phil doing anything that even mentions NT.

[untbowler]

That may be the worst analogy ever used on this board...

Totally having been around Helwig in the last year and during the Ward Interim, RV is a great find, but I must say the shine is really starting to wear off. I am like everyone else on the advances of the Facilities, but RV's biggest failure is the fundraising and lack of community events (Quarterly Mtgs)

[spike]

Well to get back on track, Thanks Dodge for your efforts (sarcasm).

So long.

Leave now.

Git.

Edited October 17, 2010 by spike

[eulessismore]

The Dallas Cowboys, Texas Longhorns, and to a degree the Oklahoma Sooners, saturate this top 10 market you speak of. Very few of our famous alums even acknowledge our existance. I can't think of any besides Joe Greene. I haven't heard Don Henley, Norah Jones, or Dr. Phil doing anything that even mentions NT.

Don Henley was quoted in the North Texan interview a few years ago saying words to the effect that "my education in the North Texas English Department is perfect for me".

That's probably better than Norah Jones quoted in the Texas Monthly saying something like "I didn't realize how much I missed country music until I moved from Denton to New York City".

Do we really want to hear Dr. Phil mentioning UNT right now, "How'd that work for ya?".

[yyz28]

Fixed it for you.

Kind of neutral on RV (pending this next football hire, which has to be right), but let's give credit where credit is due.

The stadium would be RV's legacy if it was completely funded by donations. He would deserve all the credit in the world if that were the case. It isn't and he doesn't.

Seriously?!?!

It is RV's efforts that have delivered virtually all new athletic facilities since he came on campus! When he got here, in SPITE of 100 years of history (some of you are acting like the fact we have a history gives us an advantage over the schools who don't, when based on how our history was handled, it is actually a dis-advantage) has overseen 4 conference championships in football, the most success NT basketball has ever seen and virtually constant success in the other sports on campus.

We started construction of the stadium in the midst of the worst economy in decades, and yet as it goes up, folks on here continue to bitch about how it is being funded, and credit the STUDENTS alone for the vote to (finally) fund our athletic programs? No credit for the campaign waged by RV and the athletic department to get the students on board in the midst of a crappy economy, terrible football performance and a HUGE amount of anti-fee politial pressure on campus.

I'm grateful to the majority of students who bothered to show up and vote said yes. ...but it isn't like the 2009 student body as a whole (or as a half, or quarter, or eighth) gave a thumbs up to the stadium... ...but RV and his team had the enthusiam on their side - something else he deserves credit for.

I understand some of the frustration of the fan base; I share it. ...but the attacks on RV are simply unfounded and are based not in fact, but in emotional reaction to the fact that everyone is pissed that we have a bad coaching situation right now.

[Green Mean]

With the exception of a few schools out there...a school doesn't gain anything when their famous alums mention their alma mater. I mean who cares if Dr. Phil never mentions NT? Most of society thinks he's a douchey frow in a male body. The real exposure is the hundreds of thousands alumni and future alumni that are part of regular life and in our society as regular people. If they back us up, donate and fill the stands in our football and basketball games then everything else takes care of it self.

[UNT90]

Seriously?!?!

It is RV's efforts that have delivered virtually all new athletic facilities since he came on campus! When he got here, in SPITE of 100 years of history (some of you are acting like the fact we have a history gives us an advantage over the schools who don't, when based on how our history was handled, it is actually a dis-advantage) has overseen 4 conference championships in football, the most success NT basketball has ever seen and virtually constant success in the other sports on campus.

We started construction of the stadium in the midst of the worst economy in decades, and yet as it goes up, folks on here continue to bitch about how it is being funded, and credit the STUDENTS alone for the vote to (finally) fund our athletic programs? No credit for the campaign waged by RV and the athletic department to get the students on board in the midst of a crappy economy, terrible football performance and a HUGE amount of anti-fee politial pressure on campus.

I'm grateful to the majority of students who bothered to show up and vote said yes. ...but it isn't like the 2009 student body as a whole (or as a half, or quarter, or eighth) gave a thumbs up to the stadium... ...but RV and his team had the enthusiam on their side - something else he deserves credit for.

I understand some of the frustration of the fan base; I share it. ...but the attacks on RV are simply unfounded and are based not in fact, but in emotional reaction to the fact that everyone is pissed that we have a bad coaching situation right now.

Like I said, I'm pretty neutral on RV.

I wasn't talking about anything but the stadium vote, which will fund half the stadium expense. Go back and look at some threads and quotes by RV during that time period. He basically (and smartly) said it was the students decision. The work of the Student Government to get the students on board was HUGE. RV ran the first vote, and it failed miserably. I give him credit for learning from his mistakes.

I don't worship him, and I don't run him into the ground. He has done some good things, but has also wasted opportunities. Football defines your athletic program in Texas. His first head coaching hire has turned out to be a terrible decision. His next will come at a pivitol point in this school's history. It better be the right hire.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

Like I said, I'm pretty neutral on RV.

I wasn't talking about anything but the stadium vote, which will fund half the stadium expense. Go back and look at some threads and quotes by RV during that time period. He basically (and smartly) said it was the students decision. The work of the Student Government to get the students on board was HUGE. RV ran the first vote, and it failed miserably. I give him credit for learning from his mistakes.

I don't worship him, and I don't run him into the ground. He has done some good things, but has also wasted opportunities. Football defines your athletic program in Texas. His first head coaching hire has turned out to be a terrible decision. His next will come at a pivitol point in this school's history. It better be the right hire.

I completely agree with this.

Dodge does 70% of his job right. He tots the line, does't bitch, talks up UNT's greatness and our potential. He never moans and always shows up where he is supposed to go. He has solid student athletes and has raised our APRs to acceptable levels. He didn't produce on the field.

Now, compare that list to what RV has done, and they are parrallel. Most good, just not what he was really brought here to do. RV was supposed to bring the money. Period. RV has done good here with what there was. He has monumental blunders too.