We Are Witnessing The End...

[CMJ]

This thread could use some more cowbell

[forevereagle]

The issue is not what RV has done but rather could someone else have done the same thing and more in the same tenure. Everyone praises RV for accomplishing all he has (and rightly so) but the automatic assumption is that no one else could have done what he has and we are so fortunate to have him. We dont know this is true and it could quite possibly be that if we had someone else we would have all the same and possibly be winning right now and possibly in a different conference.

Ah the "What If" argument. Very well done. So because no one can disprove your hypothetical, you win. That said, you are correct, we just don't know what someone else would have done. We also don't know if the fictitious person would have stayed longer than a few years and we would have had gone through 3 different people in this time span. No continuity would have been a big problem for a program that was trying to build something. We also don't know that we would have gotten someone that was content to deliver the same old crap, collect a paycheck and move on. We had what we had. If you aren't going to offer any constructive criticism, don't bother.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

Ah the "What If" argument. Very well done. So because no one can disprove your hypothetical, you win. That said, you are correct, we just don't know what someone else would have done. We also don't know if the fictitious person would have stayed longer than a few years and we would have had gone through 3 different people in this time span. No continuity would have been a big problem for a program that was trying to build something. We also don't know that we would have gotten someone that was content to deliver the same old crap, collect a paycheck and move on. We had what we had. If you aren't going to offer any constructive criticism, don't bother.

By your 'what if' logic, since RV is still here, it is proof that he isn't doing an awesome job and isn't worthy of a higher paying higher caliber job.

I really wish RV did such a great job that Colorado or Kansas wanted his service.

All we can do is 'what if' ourselves to death. We are lowly message board minions.

Edited October 17, 2010 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[forevereagle]

By your 'what if' logic, since RV is still here, it is proof that he isn't doing an awesome job and isn't worthy of a higher paying higher caliber job.

I really wish RV did such a great job that Colorado or Kansas wanted his service.

All we can do is 'what if' ourselves to death. We are lowly message board minions.

Did I say that? Do you know what other jobs he has been offered? Do you know if he has even applied for other jobs? I don't. I didn't even specify a reason for the fictitious person would leave. Just because someone doesn't leave doesn't mean that they aren't doing a good job, it could mean that they don't want to leave or that they aren't being noticed because the school hasn't done anything high profile. That does not mean that RV hasn't done a good job.

[UNT90]

Let's not turn on each other in these tough times, folks.

People like DallasGreen definitely have more of a say in what happens in this program. Why? Because he donates his hard earned money to the program and can probably have an hour long sit down in RV's office. I wish we had 100,000 more just like him.

If you think the $250 donor gets stadiums built or good coaches paid, look no further than SMU, where several wealthy alums came up with the money to pay the outrageous salary of June Jones. Or TCU, where only 20 some odd donors contributed 105 million for their stadium renovation (The Carter foundation contributed 15 million on it's own). This university needs all of these type of people that they can get, and I expect Mandy, Jon, or Cooper Jones to pay much more attention to them than to me. Hell, I would be mad if they didn't.

At the same time, major contributors should voice their opinions and state their donation levels where they count; sitting accros the desk from RV.

This program needs every fan it can get, no matter what your financial status.

Edited October 17, 2010 by UNT90

[KingDL1]

Did I say that? Do you know what other jobs he has been offered? Do you know if he has even applied for other jobs? I don't. I didn't even specify a reason for the fictitious person would leave. Just because someone doesn't leave doesn't mean that they aren't doing a good job, it could mean that they don't want to leave or that they aren't being noticed because the school hasn't done anything high profile. That does not mean that RV hasn't done a good job.

UNBELIEVABLE, whether you like RV or not he has been the Best AD I can remember by far, this woulda coulda shoulda bull-crap is unbelievable. One thing I really like about RV is he is passionate, and I mean really passionate about UNT. It is my belief that RV was asked/told by Dr.B to keep TD after last season.

[GreenMachine]

Seriously?!?!

It is RV's efforts that have delivered virtually all new athletic facilities since he came on campus! When he got here, in SPITE of 100 years of history (some of you are acting like the fact we have a history gives us an advantage over the schools who don't, when based on how our history was handled, it is actually a dis-advantage) has overseen 4 conference championships in football, the most success NT basketball has ever seen and virtually constant success in the other sports on campus.

We started construction of the stadium in the midst of the worst economy in decades, and yet as it goes up, folks on here continue to bitch about how it is being funded, and credit the STUDENTS alone for the vote to (finally) fund our athletic programs? No credit for the campaign waged by RV and the athletic department to get the students on board in the midst of a crappy economy, terrible football performance and a HUGE amount of anti-fee politial pressure on campus.

I'm grateful to the majority of students who bothered to show up and vote said yes. ...but it isn't like the 2009 student body as a whole (or as a half, or quarter, or eighth) gave a thumbs up to the stadium... ...but RV and his team had the enthusiam on their side - something else he deserves credit for.

I understand some of the frustration of the fan base; I share it. ...but the attacks on RV are simply unfounded and are based not in fact, but in emotional reaction to the fact that everyone is pissed that we have a bad coaching situation right now.

One must admit that RV had the most athletic friendly BOR and President than at any other time. I agree he improved things somewhat but he had a lot more support than AD's in the past.

[LoveMG]

It'll happen in the next 10 minutes if at all. Meeting with team at 1PM.

so, what happebned?

[forevereagle]

UNBELIEVABLE, whether you like RV or not he has been the Best AD I can remember by far, this woulda coulda shoulda bull-crap is unbelievable. One thing I really like about RV is he is passionate, and I mean really passionate about UNT. It is my belief that RV was asked/told by Dr.B to keep TD after last season.

That was my point.

[VideoEagle]

One must admit that RV had the most athletic friendly BOR and President than at any other time. I agree he improved things somewhat but he had a lot more support than AD's in the past.

"somewhat?"

[GreenMachine]

"somewhat?"

Again, you have to look at what we had. The soccer complex is better simply because we had no soccer complex. We converted a high school property into the womens soccer field. Definitely nicer than before but its still an average facility. Same with volleyball and tennis. It would be completely different if we had average facilities before and he upgraded them to above average or great facilities. I'm not slamming RV but people around here are so used to our athletic dept being in the crapper (budget and support wise) that any little improvement seems great.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I understand what you are saying but you are comparing RV to Helwig, probably the worst AD in the history of mankind. When RV got here there was no tailgating, probably the only school in the nation that didn't have tailgating. So coming in and setting up some type of tailgating wasn't a spectacular feat, it was doing what all the other schools had already been doing. I agree that RV has done a good job here but you have to look at who he is compared to. The stadium fee had very little to do with RV, the female facilities, again they are a lot nicer than they were but look at what was here. Also, besides the tennis facility, the other female facilities are probably on par with the rest of the belt. He has had 1 good coaching hire in JJ and the rest have been nothing to write home about.

Ugh. I don't understand why anyone would want to drag RV into the football mess and ignore his other contributions. Are you serious when you say that he has not hired any good coaches but JJ? Do you pay attention to the non-revenue sports at all? Within the past few years: Coach Hubbard, Coach Lama, Coach Stracke, Coach Murczek: all of these coaches are transforming (or have already transformed) their repsective programs into National contenders.

Look at it this way. A girl weighs 450 lbs and goes on a diet. She loses 150lbs (which is very impressive and quite an accomplishment) but she still weighs 300lbs. Is she a lot better (healthier) than before? yes she sure is. Is she going to win a fitness or health contest? Not a chance.

Helwig = 450 lb girl (bad)

RV = 300 lb girl (not quite as bad)

I got on campus during Helwig's last year here. Your 450 lb girl comparison is spot on. Athletics were a mere afterthought, and school pride in athletics was almost dead.

Rick Villareal is more like a Victoria's Secret model compared to Helwig.

[KingDL1]

Ugh. I don't understand why anyone would want to drag RV into the football mess and ignore his other contributions. Are you serious when you say that he has not hired any good coaches but JJ? Do you pay attention to the non-revenue sports at all? Within the past few years: Coach Hubbard, Coach Lama, Coach Stracke, Coach Murczek: all of these coaches are transforming (or have already transformed) their repsective programs into National contenders.

I got on campus during Helwig's last year here. Your 450 lb girl comparison is spot on. Athletics were a mere afterthought, and school pride in athletics was almost dead.

Rick Villareal is more like a Victoria's Secret model compared to Helwig.

Rick as a Victoria's Secret model, now that is a thought I didn't expect to have.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Let's not turn on each other in these tough times, folks.

People like DallasGreen definitely have more of a say in what happens in this program. Why? Because he donates his hard earned money to the program and can probably have an hour long sit down in RV's office. I wish we had 100,000 more just like him.

If you think the $250 donor gets stadiums built or good coaches paid, look no further than SMU, where several wealthy alums came up with the money to pay the outrageous salary of June Jones. Or TCU, where only 20 some odd donors contributed 105 million for their stadium renovation (The Carter foundation contributed 15 million on it's own). This university needs all of these type of people that they can get, and I expect Mandy, Jon, or Cooper Jones to pay much more attention to them than to me. Hell, I would be mad if they didn't.

At the same time, major contributors should voice their opinions and state their donation levels where they count; sitting accros the desk from RV.

This program needs every fan it can get, no matter what your financial status.

First met Dallas Green in the parking lot of the old Denton Center off University Drive in the summer of 1973. He, Green Grenade II and myself were with Hayden Fry for a promo and season ticket push in the hot summer sun that day. I wish Rick Spears would post that old photo on this board. We all looked a bit different back then for sure. (Rick, you still have it, right)?

Yes, UNT90, we need a 1,000 more Dallas Greens who I know has been following the Mean Green since he was a kid. DG is a successful CPA in Dallas and one of the great contributors and supporters/fans of this program--good times and bad. I've seen passion from him for this program to the point of tears and especially on one particular day when he confronted a former SMU AD at a Texas Stadium game between the 'Stangs and Mean Green. (That was a classic moment for this alum)

We need the others, too, that will help fill that funky end zone seating architect in the new stadium and to fill it so many times that we have to tear it down and then oval in that part of the stadium.

We cannot afford class or socio-economic warfare on this message board. It is the haves and the have nots who will make this program fly--both have to be integral parts at our new stadium's turnstiles or it won't fly. Just my .02

GMG!

PS: Had a DJ gig Saturday and sorry I could not be there to share in the misery I know many of you have seen week after week; season after season; year after year. You will get extra eagle wings in your crown for sure.

GMG!!

Edited October 18, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[Green Dozer]

Again, you have to look at what we had. The soccer complex is better simply because we had no soccer complex. We converted a high school property into the womens soccer field. Definitely nicer than before but its still an average facility. Same with volleyball and tennis. It would be completely different if we had average facilities before and he upgraded them to above average or great facilities. I'm not slamming RV but people around here are so used to our athletic dept being in the crapper (budget and support wise) that any little improvement seems great.

I agree that it is better, but unfortunately we have caught up with many high schools within a 50 mile radius of Denton as for as facilities. I think Allen is spending as much for a stadium as we are. Yes, much has improved, but we are still closer to the bottom than we are to the top. For example, I was at another school watching a game earlier this season, and a donor was recognized for a $10 million contribution to their women's athletic facility. That is close to our overall athletic budget. Rick was smart to buy the Liberty property, but also luck that it was available in such close proximity to the campus. And it took some creative financing, it certainly was not purchased with donations to the Mean Green Club.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I agree that it is better, but unfortunately we have caught up with many high schools within a 50 mile radius of Denton as for as facilities. I think Allen is spending as much for a stadium as we are. Yes, much has improved, but we are still closer to the bottom than we are to the top. For example, I was at another school watching a game earlier this season, and a donor was recognized for a $10 million contribution to their women's athletic facility. That is close to our overall athletic budget. Rick was smart to buy the Liberty property, but also luck that it was available in such close proximity to the campus. And it took some creative financing, it certainly was not purchased with donations to the Mean Green Club.

http://highschoolsportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/04/if-drawings-are-any-indication.html

Construction for Allen's new 18,000-seat high school football stadium is expected to begin this September. And by the looks of it , it's going to be a state-of-the-art facility that will be the envy of Class 5A programs from the Dallas-Fort Worth area and beyond.

In May 2009, voters approved a $119.4 million bond proposal for a new auditorium at Allen High School, new multipurpose stadium and a new service center for maintenance, student nutrition and transportation. Tim Carroll, director of public information services for Allen ISD, said the estimated cost of the stadium is $59.6 million.

[GreenMachine]

Ugh. I don't understand why anyone would want to drag RV into the football mess and ignore his other contributions. Are you serious when you say that he has not hired any good coaches but JJ? Do you pay attention to the non-revenue sports at all? Within the past few years: Coach Hubbard, Coach Lama, Coach Stracke, Coach Murczek: all of these coaches are transforming (or have already transformed) their repsective programs into National contenders.

I got on campus during Helwig's last year here. Your 450 lb girl comparison is spot on. Athletics were a mere afterthought, and school pride in athletics was almost dead.

Rick Villareal is more like a Victoria's Secret model compared to Helwig.

Actually I was going to mention the non-revenue sports because Hedlung, Stracke, Hubbard, Dykstra, Lama, and Murczek have been doing an outstanding job but again, they are the non-revenue sports that most people don't pay much attention to. I think most AD's are measured on successful FB and mens and womens basketball. In those 3 sports he difinitely gets an A+ for the JJ hire and I'll leave it at that.