Bench Depth

BleedGreen · October 11, 2010

Okay, so the starters are obviously: Josh, Tristan, Shannon, George and ...either Alonzo Edwards or Kedrick Hogans at PF

So, what about the bench?

I have the bigs backups figured out: Spencer and Knox spell George, and whoever doesn't start mentioned above spells other PF.

I guess Jacob Holmen is more of a 3 and can spell Shannon or start against a bigger lineup at the three?

But, the guards have me perplexed. Dominique Johnson backs up Josh. Does Alzee move to the 2 as the back-up for Tristan? It seems that one injury in the backcourt could be devastating.

Your thoughts?

GrayEagle · October 11, 2010

My thoughts are a three guard offense of Johnson at point, Josh at 2 and Tristan at 3.

We basically have two power forwards although we can call one a 5. If that's the case, make George the center. I would guess that Hogans would be the four but he's not much of a scorer. Edwards wasn't much of a scorer in JC ranks either. If Holmen can play with his back to the basket then he might also be a strong candidate. I see Shorter as the first one off of the bench.

TheTastyGreek · October 11, 2010

Odufuwa will start at one post, the other starter will likely be Edwards or Holmen. Holmen was playing as a post last year, and now that Tramiel is gone he'll be even more critical there. Holmen isn't consistent enough from outside the arc to be a wing player exclusively, and on a team like ours his inside skills and size are too critical to use him as an outside player. That's what JJ recruited him to do, that's what they were preparing him for last season, and that's what he'll probably be doing for the rest of his North Texas career.

Hogans is unlikely to start because his greatest strengths are defense- rebounding and shot blocking. It isn't that he can't score, it's that he has a rare fire and intensity for the dirty work. He's got to fill Odufuwa's role on a 2nd unit with either Holmen or Edwards- whoever doesn't start as our score-first post player. Kedrick isn't going to out-George George, so he'll get heavy minutes as a sub. I may wind up being completely wrong here, but that's my expectation. Spencer will probably be the 5th post, much like last year, and hopefully will continue to contribute in the same way he did last season if he finds himself back in that role. If everyone stays in the role they've played or been recruited for, then Knox is not likely to get any chance at minutes significant enough to properly develop or push for more time.

Josh and Tristan are clear starters. Shorter, Alzee, Dominique... I can see any or all of them starting based on matchups and productivity. When four of your five guards are all capable of running the offense, the flexibility is a nice asset.

Losing McGhee was a major blow, and now depth at guard is a concern. We can't really afford any injuries or slumps. When Mangrum transfered, it looked like we'd be able to replace him with a better long-term solution, but we weren't able to get anyone worthy of the scholarship in time for this season. When he left, it looked like the best scenario for everyone. Knowing what we know now, I really, REALLY wish he was still around.

One possibility is using Alonzo Edwards as a 3. One of the concerns on him coming aboard on Tramiel's scholarship was that he hasn't been much of a back to the basket guy, and he likes to shoot the 3 and play more of an outside role. If we get into trouble at guard, maybe he can play a more traditional small forward position and open up more frontcourt minutes for Cam/Jacob/Kedrick/Knox.

If I had to guess how the guard rotation will work, I think Dominique will be our usual starter and our primary ballhandler whenever the size won't be a major issue. Josh plays better and is more of an offensive threat when he doesn't have to create for the rest of the team, and Dominique did a great job of setting up him and everyone else two years ago. When matchups preclude having Dom and Josh on the floor for lengthy stretches, or when we need more of a lockdown defender to match up against an opposing starter, I'd expect Shorter to be the 3rd starting guard and Josh to run the offense. I think Alzee is going to be a great player for us, but unless we lose someone to injury I don't think he starts until next season.

bstnsportsfan3 · October 11, 2010

I concur, i see the starting 5 being Johnson, White, Thompson, Edwards and Odufuwa. Williams, Shorter, Holman, Hogans and Spencer will probably be our bench....with Knox getting time sparingly. Really excited that DJ is back and that White can play the 2 again. Football has been a beating....so ready for basketball....first preseason game is 1 month from today 11/10!!

Censored by Laurie · October 11, 2010

I don't see DJ moving back into the starting line-up in most cases. The White, TT, Shorter troika really gelled at the end of last season and I would imagine JJ will keep that group together...don't want to mess with good chemistry.

DJ off the bench as the primary sub at the 1 and 2, still playing 25-30 minutes a night.

Army of Dad · October 11, 2010

I think Tasty pretty much nailed it.

TheTastyGreek · October 11, 2010

I don't see DJ moving back into the starting line-up in most cases. The White, TT, Shorter troika really gelled at the end of last season and I would imagine JJ will keep that group together...don't want to mess with good chemistry.

DJ off the bench as the primary sub at the 1 and 2, still playing 25-30 minutes a night.

I could definitely see that.

Dominique's role is one of the three biggest questions about this team that I see heading into the season.

1) Will JJ want to take the playmaking burden off Josh and start Dominique, or will he play a bigger lineup and start a better man-on-man defender in Shannon Shorter instead?

2) Is Jacob Holmen ready to start and contribute in a major way in his Sophomore year?

3) What is Alonzo Edwards going to do for us, how will he be used, and how will his role affect the distribution of both the guard and forward minutes?

We're 30 days away. 32 from basketball that counts. I ate my first piece of basketball advent calendar chocolate this morning.

Censored by Laurie · October 11, 2010

3) What is Alonzo Edwards going to do for us, how will he be used, and how will his role affect the distribution of both the guard and forward minutes?

Starting/Reserve 4...baring an injury I'd be shocked to see a 3 forward (O, Hognas, Holman, Edwards) line-up. Throughout JJ's tenure I can not recall a small forward and with 3 capable, big guards I don't see him starting this season. Alzee, TT or Shannon go down...different story

Greendylan · October 11, 2010

I could definitely see that.

Dominique's role is one of the three biggest questions about this team that I see heading into the season.

1) Will JJ want to take the playmaking burden off Josh and start Dominique, or will he play a bigger lineup and start a better man-on-man defender in Shannon Shorter instead?

2) Is Jacob Holmen ready to start and contribute in a major way in his Sophomore year?

3) What is Alonzo Edwards going to do for us, how will he be used, and how will his role affect the distribution of both the guard and forward minutes?

We're 30 days away. 32 from basketball that counts. I ate my first piece of basketball advent calendar chocolate this morning.

I'll take an unsolicited stab a these three questions from my humble view:

1. I can see DJ starting alongside Josh White on rare occasion against smaller lineups (or larger lineups when a speed advantage is desirable), but I agree with the sentiment above that last year's three starting guards will remain in tact--at least for the early part of the season. That doesn't leave much room for Johnson to start, and I'm not sure he should. It seems to me that his speed with the ball presents a challenging change of pace off the bench for opposing defenses.

2. Even with limited playing time, Holmen really impressed me last year. He seemed fairly poised, for a freshman, with some flashes of offensive greatness. I remember a certain game-winning shot that confirmed for me that he's already capable of contributing in a substantial way. If he doesn't start at the beginning of the season, I predict he will by the heart of conference play.

3. It seems like Edwards can play either forward position, and I tend to think he will come off the bench with strategic starts here and there. My question is this: What forward can replace Trammiel's 12.9 points per game? I think we have several post players who can reasonably be expected to compensate for the loss of his rebounding, but none of them, at this point in their careers, seem like truly dangerous scoring threats at the small forward position.

chrisfisher · October 11, 2010

I'll take an unsolicited stab a these three questions from my humble view:

1. I can see DJ starting alongside Josh White on rare occasion against smaller lineups (or larger lineups when a speed advantage is desirable), but I agree with the sentiment above that last year's three starting guards will remain in tact--at least for the early part of the season. That doesn't leave much room for Johnson to start, and I'm not sure he should. It seems to me that his speed with the ball presents a challenging change of pace off the bench for opposing defenses.

2. Even with limited playing time, Holmen really impressed me last year. He seemed fairly poised, for a freshman, with some flashes of offensive greatness. I remember a certain game-winning shot that confirmed for me that he's already capable of contributing in a substantial way. If he doesn't start at the beginning of the season, I predict he will by the heart of conference play.

3. It seems like Edwards can play either forward position, and I tend to think he will come off the bench with strategic starts here and there. My question is this: What forward can replace Trammiel's 12.9 points per game? I think we have several post players who can reasonably be expected to compensate for the loss of his rebounding, but none of them, at this point in their careers, seem like truly dangerous scoring threats at the small forward position.

With regard to point 3, my guess is it will take two players' combined stats at the 4 spot to make up for Tramiel (6 or 7 points each). Perhaps Hogans plus Edwards.

TheTastyGreek · October 11, 2010

Starting/Reserve 4...baring an injury I'd be shocked to see a 3 forward (O, Hognas, Holman, Edwards) line-up. Throughout JJ's tenure I can not recall a small forward and with 3 capable, big guards I don't see him starting this season. Alzee, TT or Shannon go down...different story

I think that was what we brought Edwards in to do, but being down to 5 guards before the season even starts... As soon as someone gets banged up or whenever we get into perimeter foul trouble, that may have to change.

With Cam Spencer, we go 5 deep with viable contributors in the paint if that's where Edwards plays. 5 posts for 2 spots, 5 guards for 3 spots... As long as we stay healthy, that can work. But how often does a team get through an entire year without any guards missing time?

Green Lantern · October 11, 2010

I could definitely see that.

Dominique's role is one of the three biggest questions about this team that I see heading into the season.

1) Will JJ want to take the playmaking burden off Josh and start Dominique, or will he play a bigger lineup and start a better man-on-man defender in Shannon Shorter instead?

2) Is Jacob Holmen ready to start and contribute in a major way in his Sophomore year?

1.) I'm with CBL in that initially this season, I think I'd stick with White, TT and Shorter as the starters. I'm thrilled to have Dom back, but the chemistry established last year is probably good enough to ride it out in the begining of the season. I'd like to see Dom worked back in heavily off of the bench initially, then if production warrants it, look at moving him back into a starting role. Either way, great problem to have.

2.) I am extremely interested to see how he's able to manage his shot selection this year. Holmen is an undeniable talent and true asset for NT (even as a freshman), but I'm looking to see improvement in the consistency in his game early in the season. If he can harness all that natural ability and let the game come to him, he's going to be awfully dangerous and a match up nightmare for opposing teams.

untgeorge · October 11, 2010

Odufuwa will start at one post, the other starter will likely be Edwards or Holmen. Holmen was playing as a post last year, and now that Tramiel is gone he'll be even more critical there. Holmen isn't consistent enough from outside the arc to be a wing player exclusively, and on a team like ours his inside skills and size are too critical to use him as an outside player. That's what JJ recruited him to do, that's what they were preparing him for last season, and that's what he'll probably be doing for the rest of his North Texas career.

Hogans is unlikely to start because his greatest strengths are defense- rebounding and shot blocking. It isn't that he can't score, it's that he has a rare fire and intensity for the dirty work. He's got to fill Odufuwa's role on a 2nd unit with either Holmen or Edwards- whoever doesn't start as our score-first post player. Kedrick isn't going to out-George George, so he'll get heavy minutes as a sub. I may wind up being completely wrong here, but that's my expectation. Spencer will probably be the 5th post, much like last year, and hopefully will continue to contribute in the same way he did last season if he finds himself back in that role. If everyone stays in the role they've played or been recruited for, then Knox is not likely to get any chance at minutes significant enough to properly develop or push for more time.

Josh and Tristan are clear starters. Shorter, Alzee, Dominique... I can see any or all of them starting based on matchups and productivity. When four of your five guards are all capable of running the offense, the flexibility is a nice asset.

Losing McGhee was a major blow, and now depth at guard is a concern. We can't really afford any injuries or slumps. When Mangrum transfered, it looked like we'd be able to replace him with a better long-term solution, but we weren't able to get anyone worthy of the scholarship in time for this season. When he left, it looked like the best scenario for everyone. Knowing what we know now, I really, REALLY wish he was still around.

One possibility is using Alonzo Edwards as a 3. One of the concerns on him coming aboard on Tramiel's scholarship was that he hasn't been much of a back to the basket guy, and he likes to shoot the 3 and play more of an outside role. If we get into trouble at guard, maybe he can play a more traditional small forward position and open up more frontcourt minutes for Cam/Jacob/Kedrick/Knox.

If I had to guess how the guard rotation will work, I think Dominique will be our usual starter and our primary ballhandler whenever the size won't be a major issue. Josh plays better and is more of an offensive threat when he doesn't have to create for the rest of the team, and Dominique did a great job of setting up him and everyone else two years ago. When matchups preclude having Dom and Josh on the floor for lengthy stretches, or when we need more of a lockdown defender to match up against an opposing starter, I'd expect Shorter to be the 3rd starting guard and Josh to run the offense. I think Alzee is going to be a great player for us, but unless we lose someone to injury I don't think he starts until next season.

Holmen's minutes diminished to nearly nothing the last six games of the season, including the NCAA and conf tournament games. No more than 6 mins in any of those games, zero in two. Did he have a health problem, or were the coaches lacking in confidence in him?

Travis · October 11, 2010

I have been hearing great things about how much Shannon has really stepped it up.

I can't wait to see what Edwards brings... but his knees are a problem right now.

MeanGreenTexan · October 11, 2010

Any students out there seen Edwards at practice at all? How does he look? Is he gelling with the rest of the guys?

I thought Edwards was a face-to-the-basket kind of player and he was being turned into a back-to-the-basket player at Nebraska and he didn't like that. I can't imagine we'll see alot of post play from Edwards, unless he recently changed his mind. Not to say he'll never play back-to-the-basket, but he'll probably be on the wings alot looking for lanes, shots or a slashing TT/Josh/Dom.

GrandGreen · October 11, 2010

The last thing NT needs is for Holmen or Edwards trying to play the wing. It is hard to believe with the current basketball recruiting going so well that last year was a disaster. Having only 11 scholarship players and 5 at the guard positions makes depth a real problem. I look for Johnson to play a lot of point guard which means that Johnson, White and Thompson will be the guards. Against some teams, I am sure that JJ will stay with Shorter and it is obvious that Williams will get a lot of time at the wing. NT just will not have that big scoring guard off the bench that has been a prime part of JJ's teams.

The second front court player to pair with Odufuwa is any one's guess. Edwards was signed for this position but his 7 pt and 3 rebound juco year isn't very reassuring. A lot seem to think Holmen will fill this position, but played behind Spencer all the last part of the season. Hogans is a high energy guy but has shown little offensively and is foul prone. Knox had some early success but didn't get any minutes as the season ran on. One of these guys is going to have to get substantially better for NT to have a great year.

NT has three players that are legitimate conference mvp candidates and should have a great year despite lack of guard depth and apparent front court talent. If there are no injuries, NT guards should be good and better defensively than they have been; although the lack of height may hurt. Anything happens to Odufuwa and this team is going to be in deep trouble.

SUMG · October 11, 2010

I know walk-ons tend not to make the impact in hoops....that they do in football. But this young man, who was with us last year---but redshirted....might be another viable option at guard. He supposedly has incredible "hops". I've been told that for a 6'2" white guy, he has great dunking ability:

http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=9109&SPID=564&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=1800&ATCLID=204907560&Q_SEASON=2010

And look what he did in high school....22 ppg; 6 rpg; 5 apg. Anyway, he's a nice guy---met him in Hot Springs last March. Here's hoping that he gives us some more guard depth.

Edited October 11, 2010 by SUMG