Can't Really Feel Bad About That Game

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Look, let's be real honest up front here - Arkansas State is awful. Like I said before the season, 2010 was a year when many of our conference foes were going to be rebuilding. The Redwolves or Red Wolves or Red Whatever were no different.

A 100% healthy 2010 Mean Green would have beaten this sorry Arkansas State offering into a fine, powdery, dust-like substance.

As it was, scraping by with a walk-on fourth string quarterback who hadn't so much as held for an extra point, and dragging a true freshman off the bench for his first collegiate game as a kicker was almost good enough. That's how truly crappy Arkansas State is in 2010.

Deep down you want to feel sorry for Todd Dodge. But, then, you snap out of it and realize there are a plethora of problems of his own making. Especially with the depth. Just look at the defensive line. It's like a fence held together with bailing wire.

You got an undersized linebacker moved to DE, a journey man walk-on, a military walk-on, some JUCOs, some tight ends and offensive linemen have been flipped back and forth there over Dodge's tenure. Frankly, it's a recipe for nothing but week after week of colossal cluster f*ck. But, somehow, as thin a rotation as it is, they keep us in ballgames this year.

It is the way it is because of Todd Dodge. He just didn't give us jack in the way of defensive recruits, really, until his third and fourth classes. And, yet, the defensive coaches are coaching their asses off out there.

I've got no complaints with the defensive side of the ball. The are night and day different than the 2007 and 2008 offerings (I'd have liked to seen the coaching staff with the nine returning starters on defense in 2007).

Earlier in the month I said that all these injuries have done is brought us back down the level of our competition, so the games will be closer. Without injuries, we'd be on collision course with Troy for a Sun Belt title face off in a few weeks.

Fate is what it is. It wasn't meant to be for Todd Dodge. Some of it was bad luck. But, coaches like Jimmy Johnson would say preparation trumps reliance on any kind of luck.

In the college game, preparation begins off the field in the living rooms of recruits. Dodge badly underestimated this and, I guess, thought it was just a matter or "restoring" discipline. He was wrong. You seriously need studs on your defensive line to compete at this level - preferable six to eight for a consistent, run-throttling, dare-to-beat-us-through-the-air rotation.

I figure we've got a shot at two more wins - ULM and WKU. Both are terrible - equally as horrid as FAU and A-State. As I stated earlier in the year, FAU is terrible and was destined to be in 2010. ULM sqeaked past them. But, they both still suck. We'd kick the dog flea out of them at 100%.

As injured as we are, and with our new kicker as a weapon, both of those games are still very winnable. I think Troy, MTSU, and FIU run roughshod over us.

In 2011, we'll be thin due to graduations, same as most of our Belt foes are this year. At least with our rebuilding year the car will already be up on the jacks. It is imperative that Rick Villareal not daydream again through this hiring process. He's got to nail this one.

Blimey, there's a croc!

Edited October 10, 2010 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[CaribbeanGreen]

Earlier in the month I said that all these injuries have done is brought us back down the level of our competition, so the games will be closer. Without injuries, we'd be on collision course with Troy for a Sun Belt title face off in a few weeks.

I don't know that a team that loses to Rice at home could have immediately assumed it was ahead of MTSU, FIU, ASU, or ULL.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

ULL and ASU struggled against us despite that fact that we are down a dozen starters form both sides of the ball. Give us back even hlf a dozen and we'd have easily beaten those two. They are not good this year.

The point, to me, remains...the injuries have made pre-season gimmies dogfights. And, that says less about our competition than it does about us.

Our defense is better. Our special teams are better. We're down to a third team center snapping to a fourth team QB...and are still in games against our Belt foes.

I don't think it's a huge leap of logic to say that the team that about played Clemson to a draw on the road and took Rice to wire would be steamrolling the likes of ASU and ULL this season.

Due to injury, it's not to be. With the games remaining, even with all of our injuries, we can still beat WKU and ULM. Everyone else has more in the tank than we do. But, at the beginning of the season, they had no more than we did.

Again (and again and again), the climb out of the Belt cellar isn't high. We had the coaching staff to do it this season. Fate is what it is. Our front line players were very competitive. We are eaten alive with poor depth. That goes to the man at the top.

Gotta be real.

[eulesseagle]

+1 FLF...

the defense has kept NT competitive in all the games this year ... even clemson to some respect since NT did not get "blown out" to a BCS school as in the past.

injuries.....to over half the starters....

[UNT90]

ULL and ASU struggled against us despite that fact that we are down a dozen starters form both sides of the ball. Give us back even hlf a dozen and we'd have easily beaten those two. They are not good this year.

The point, to me, remains...the injuries have made pre-season gimmies dogfights. And, that says less about our competition than it does about us.

Our defense is better. Our special teams are better. We're down to a third team center snapping to a fourth team QB...and are still in games against our Belt foes.

I don't think it's a huge leap of logic to say that the team that about played Clemson to a draw on the road and took Rice to wire would be steamrolling the likes of ASU and ULL this season.

Due to injury, it's not to be. With the games remaining, even with all of our injuries, we can still beat WKU and ULM. Everyone else has more in the tank than we do. But, at the beginning of the season, they had no more than we did.

Again (and again and again), the climb out of the Belt cellar isn't high. We had the coaching staff to do it this season. Fate is what it is. Our front line players were very competitive. We are eaten alive with poor depth. That goes to the man at the top.

Gotta be real.

If you wanted to be real, you would understand that this team was 5-32 entering this season and had not won back to back games in the Dodge era.

Funny how you assume that the talent we had before the injuries would have magically blown out these first three conference opppnents when the same talent last year lost to all three.

Dude, please just admit you were wrong and give everyone some peace.

Edited October 10, 2010 by UNT90

[slugg]

ULL and ASU struggled against us despite that fact that we are down a dozen starters form both sides of the ball. Give us back even hlf a dozen and we'd have easily beaten those two. They are not good this year.

The point, to me, remains...the injuries have made pre-season gimmies dogfights. And, that says less about our competition than it does about us.

Our defense is better. Our special teams are better. We're down to a third team center snapping to a fourth team QB...and are still in games against our Belt foes.

I don't think it's a huge leap of logic to say that the team that about played Clemson to a draw on the road and took Rice to wire would be steamrolling the likes of ASU and ULL this season.

Due to injury, it's not to be. With the games remaining, even with all of our injuries, we can still beat WKU and ULM. Everyone else has more in the tank than we do. But, at the beginning of the season, they had no more than we did.

Again (and again and again), the climb out of the Belt cellar isn't high. We had the coaching staff to do it this season. Fate is what it is. Our front line players were very competitive. We are eaten alive with poor depth. That goes to the man at the top.

Gotta be real.

Can't add anything.....DITTO!

[buff64]

UNT could win all the remaining games or lose them all. The Sun Belt id terrible only one team has one as many as 3 games, and two of them were Sun Belt games. I question whether or not any of the teams , except Troy , could compete in the Lone Star Conference.

[LongJim]

Our defense is better. Our special teams are better.

Man, please. Please give this a rest. They played well this week, but please.

I don't think it's a huge leap of logic to say that the team that about played Clemson to a draw on the road and took Rice to wire would be steamrolling the likes of ASU and ULL this season.

Oh, they'd be scoring 40 points--maybe, and giving up 45 on a last second collapse or fumble return for a touchdown. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. *Makes David Byrne chopping motion down arm.*

I agree that the offense has been shelled by injury. That's obvious. But the Rice game is what it was--a true barometer of what this team was going to be--a team that could score some points, but shoot itself in the foot with penalties and defensive and special teams collapses and mistakes more often than not.

Your post has one basic premise that I agree with--recruiting has been deficient to compete week in and week out in the SBC on defense.

[MeanGreenTexan]

If you wanted to be real, you would understand that this team was 5-32 entering this season and had not won back to back games in the Dodge era.

Funny how you assume that the talent we had before the injuries would have magically blown out these first three conference opppnents when the same talent last year lost to all three.

Dude, please just admit you were wrong and give everyone some peace.

??

Riley, Tune, Thompson < Chase Baine?

Johnson, Leppo < Aaron Fortenberry?

DaWaylon Cook < John Shorter?

Stradford, Bynes < Willie Taylor, Brelan Chancellor?

I kinda think he's onto something... Completely ignoring the injuries is plain dumb. I totally agree that with a fully healthy team, we're 3-0 in conference play right now.

That said, Dodge is now up against the wall. At 1-5, his chances of reaching 6-7 wins are shrinking quickly. He needs to make lemonade.

[PlummMeanGreen]

UNT could win all the remaining games or lose them all. The Sun Belt id terrible only one team has one as many as 3 games, and two of them were Sun Belt games. I question whether or not any of the teams , except Troy , could compete in the Lone Star Conference.

And is another reason we should keep our eyes open for a better conference home if thats ever possible.

I don't know how long it will take the 'Belt to get its league & NO's Bowl bound champion in the Top 25; with Top 25 ranking being a feat that even the MAC has done on a few occasions if my memory serves me correct.

GMG!

Question For Anyone: How many of our season ending injuries would be elgible for a med RS?

Edited October 11, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[eulessismore]

And is another reason we should keep our eyes open for a better conference home if thats ever possible.

I don't know how long it will take the 'Belt to get its league & NO's Bowl bound champion in the Top 25; a feat that even the MAC has done on a few occasions if my memory serves me correct.

GMG!

Question For Anyone: How many of our season ending injuries would be elgible for a med RS?

I've got to agree with President Rawlins on this one; start winning wherever we are before worrying about a new conference.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

LongJim, come on, man.

You're a fellow poster of reason. We've rapped in PMs. You know you can't compare this year's defense and special teams to the first three years.

We're all frustrated that we're not winning, but we are decimated with injuries. The lack of quality depth I completely blame on Dodge. But, other than that, give Gandy his due for bringing the special teams around; and, give Deloach & Co. their due for not getting blown out in any game.

This had been a tough season and the coaching staff is doing one hell of a job. Coach Canales is putting together game plans that #3 and #4 quarterbacks can execute enough for us to win (at FAU) and come damn close (last weekend).

It's amazing! In 2008, we were getting blown out in and out of conference with a second year starter under Dodge/Ford, and Deloach depserately trying to find some defensive players after nine graduated from the 2007 squad.

This is a better team. It's not going to show up in the record. But, as bad as the Sun Belt is, we could still pull off a couple of wins (believe me, ULM and WKU are horrible, as bad as ASU and FAU).

Again, I expect nothing against Troy and MTSU. FIU...based on the way they've played the big boys, every break - and I mean every break has to go our way for their to be a chance.

But, you see how having a field goal kicker can keep you in games, at minimum. We can still scratch and claw our way to four wins. Is 4-8 acceptable? No. Not in the overall scheme of things.

But, keep in mind going 3-5 or 4-4 in the Belt - despite all of the injuries - would still be an improvement over Years 1-3 of Dodge. At that point, how could you not give this coaching staff credit for keeping the thing together?

Also, even though it will be unpopular here, I said before the season, I'd accept a fifth year of Dodge if we broke even in the Belt. Even if it meant we were 4-8 or 5-7 overall.

If we are 4-8 at the end of the season, after all of the injuries, I don't see how you say this 2010 coaching staff was a failure. They're playing long odds right now and doing as well as they can.

If we go 4-8, I'd love to see Dodge stay and see how this group of assistants recruits. I'd also love to see another season under Charr in the weight room.

Am I crazy? Maybe. I opposed the Dodge hiring from the start. There's no secret to that. But...I'm willing to give him another shot if we're 4-4 in the Belt with this mess. I criticize when criticism is necessary. But, I'm a man and can also give credit where credit is due.

Edited October 11, 2010 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[NCMeanGreen]

LongJim, come on, man.

You're a fellow poster of reason. We've rapped in PMs. You know you can't compare this year's defense and special teams to the first three years.

We're all frustrated that we're not winning, but we are decimated with injuries. The lack of quality depth I completely blame on Dodge. But, other than that, give Gandy his due for bringing the special teams around; and, give Deloach & Co. their due for not getting blown out in any game.

This had been a tough season and the coaching staff is doing one hell of a job. Coach Canales is putting together game plans that #3 and #4 quarterbacks can execute enough for us to win (at FAU) and come damn close (last weekend).

It's amazing! In 2008, we were getting blown out in and out of conference with a second year starter under Dodge/Ford, and Deloach depserately trying to find some defensive players after nine graduated from the 2007 squad.

This is a better team. It's not going to show up in the record. But, as bad as the Sun Belt is, we could still pull off a couple of wins (believe me, ULM and WKU are horrible, as bad as ASU and FAU).

Again, I expect nothing against Troy and MTSU. FIU...based on the way they've played the big boys, every break - and I mean every break has to go our way for their to be a chance.

But, you see how having a field goal kicker can keep you in games, at minimum. We can still scratch and claw our way to four wins. Is 4-8 acceptable? No. Not in the overall scheme of things.

But, keep in mind going 3-5 or 4-4 in the Belt - despite all of the injuries - would still be an improvement over Years 1-3 of Dodge. At that point, how could you not give this coaching staff credit for keeping the thing together?

Also, even though it will be unpopular here, I said before the season, I'd accept a fifth year of Dodge if we broke even in the Belt. Even if it meant we were 4-8 or 5-7 overall.

If we are 4-8 at the end of the season, after all of the injuries, I don't see how you say this 2010 coaching staff was a failure. They're playing long odds right now and doing as well as they can.

If we go 4-8, I'd love to see Dodge stay and see how this group of assistants recruits. I'd also love to see another season under Charr in the weight room.

Am I crazy? Maybe. I opposed the Dodge hiring from the start. There's no secret to that. But...I'm willing to give him another shot if we're 4-4 in the Belt with this mess. I criticize when criticism is necessary. But, I'm a man and can also give credit where credit is due.

We do not have to debate whether this coaching staff is a failure or not...the scoreboard does that for us. We either have more points than the other team at the end of the game...or we don't. Period. At this point (4 years into a HC's career) success or Failure is predicated on the W-L record. Further, RV has already set the mandate...either win 7 or go home. Yes, one could argue that the injuries have not created a "fair" situation. But, like my momma always said, life is not always fair.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Also, even though it will be unpopular here, I said before the season, I'd accept a fifth year of Dodge if we broke even in the Belt. Even if it meant we were 4-8 or 5-7 overall.

If we are 4-8 at the end of the season, after all of the injuries, I don't see how you say this 2010 coaching staff was a failure. They're playing long odds right now and doing as well as they can.

If we go 4-8, I'd love to see Dodge stay and see how this group of assistants recruits. I'd also love to see another season under Charr in the weight room.

You've almost got me talked into it, but I don't know. I could definitely see bringing the staff back with a 6-6 season, or even a 5-7 season, given the circumstances. But there is a great gulf fixed between 5-7 and 4-8 that I do not think can be bridged.

[NCMeanGreen]

If this team gets 5...heck, 4...wins this season I say give them all raises and 10 year extensions...

[LongJim]

LongJim, come on, man.

You're a fellow poster of reason. We've rapped in PMs. You know you can't compare this year's defense and special teams to the first three years.

Alright. I won't compare them any more. Ever. Any comparisons I've ever made are null and void.

But, you see how having a field goal kicker can keep you in games, at minimum.

No, but you have opened my eyes. I had no idea.

Look, I'm wasting my breath. I'm not here to argue with you, as I will sound like an ass and a broken record. Here's the deal I agree with, and I'm pleasantly surprised that you posted this. I am ignoring your strawman arguments, but do acknowledge their presence, btw:

We can still scratch and claw our way to four wins. Is 4-8 acceptable? No. Not in the overall scheme of things.

But, keep in mind going 3-5 or 4-4 in the Belt - despite all of the injuries - would still be an improvement over Years 1-3 of Dodge. At that point, how could you not give this coaching staff credit for keeping the thing together? If we are 4-8 at the end of the season, after all of the injuries, I don't see how you say this 2010 coaching staff was a failure. They're playing long odds right now and doing as well as they can.

If we go 4-8, I'd love to see Dodge stay and see how this group of assistants recruits. I'd also love to see another season under Charr in the weight room.

I opposed the Dodge hiring from the start. There's no secret to that. But...I'm willing to give him another shot if we're 4-4 in the Belt with this mess. I criticize when criticism is necessary. But, I'm a man and can also give credit where credit is due.

I have to say (and this will be unpopular) that I agree with the above. I have agonized about the wisdom of this, but I really really hate to see this program go through another down cycle at this point in time, and unless there are issues I'm not aware of, if they can pull off 4 wins this year, I am leaning toward bringing them back for a couple of reasons: (Lord help me...)

• Canales can game plan. I agree that the hire has paid dividends.
  
• We don't hold Deloach to the same standard--which really pisses me off--but he can coach.
  
• Dodge is a class act for UNT. That's not a small feat. It's something that can't be understated for this program. It's vitally important.
  
• Dodge has learned--every year--from his mistakes and has worked to correct them.
  
• The team has played hard against ridiculous odds. That's a credit to the coaching staff, and a credit to these kids. Sometimes we forget how young most of these guys really are.
  

Whatever. If the majority wants a change, then I really can't argue too much based on what's been produced on the field. I just think it will set the program back a couple of years. Defensive recruiting is still not acceptable, in my opinion. I was also not thrilled with the initial hire of TD, but I really feel that this staff has done (except for recruiting) as well as could be expected--this year--considering what's befallen this team.

Unless the AD (and by that, I mean alumni) pony up the cash to grab a big-name hire, this program is going to be in the same hole it was in 4 years ago. It's easy to say "go grab a name guy". It's tougher than people think to pull off and still be able to pay the guys who do the work.

I, too, may be roasted for this opinion, but there it is.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

This is a better team. It's not going to show up in the record. But, as bad as the Sun Belt is, we could still pull off a couple of wins (believe me, ULM and WKU are horrible, as bad as ASU and FAU).

Again, I expect nothing against Troy and MTSU. FIU...based on the way they've played the big boys, every break - and I mean every break has to go our way for their to be a chance.

I can see improvement by virtue of the fact we are not getting blown out anymore, but it that because our defense has improved so much or our offense is getting better? The notion that we would have to get every break to beat a team at home that is 1-4 is just how far off we REALLY are.