Listening To Your Fan Base

[MeanGreenEagle1]

As a Professor, I always find it helpful to listen to my students. I am there to serve them...not the other way around. I am there each day to provide them with a valuable product which of course is education. I am in the business of sales. I sell education and my college profits off of it in several ways. I like to think I improve lives. These results of a quality product are powerful....they sustain themselves. They lead to growth. If my product at some point is not up to par, my "customers" notice quickly and I see the negative results. My "fan base" declines and they become detached. My enrollment declines. Bottom line, I am very fortunate to have the students I have in each of my classes. I am appreciative and I am happy to serve them..for they are what sustains me on many levels. If they have an idea that overall helps improve my class, I listen. How does this relate to UNT football?

This whole concept has me thinking about the current state of the football program and our future. Notice how I say "our" future. Unfortunately, I feel the past and current UNT admin have missed this entire concept in some areas completely. As a Alumnus of my beloved UNT, I have always felt the administration ignored some great ideas the student body conceived in a variety of campus projects and programs. Due to the current state of our program, I believe it is critical at this point that we are listened to. They run the show, we follow right? Wrong...the students and alumnus run the show. We are what sustains them. We buy their product. We help grow their product. We contribute and they are supposed to listen. It's a form of assessment for them etc etc.

Look at the alumni program for LSU....wow. Truly magical sustainable pipeline of contribution. How do I know, well...I am an indoctrinated LSU fan...my wife and her entire family all went to LSU. I have learned so much from them. So when they have their Purple and Gold flying and even though UNT football is tattered, torn and frayed, I wear my Mean Green Garb...with pride. They respect my loyalty even though we suck and they hope I can experience what is the norm for them each week....even when LSU loses.

How do we go about sending our message to UNT that we want to help? Well...I'm not talking about blind, angry rants about this or that..I'm talking about sincere solutions and ideas to help grow the program into a symbol of sustainable pride and growth. We get more involved. The alumni right now is so deeply divided which of course is a problem. Some are loyal and some are bitter. Even though I do not agree with some of the admins decisions over the years, I am appreciative of their improvements (The Stadium, Basketball, Golf etc.) to the athletic program as a whole. However, it's all about marketing to your customers. There is absolutely no reason why UNT can't be a powerhouse in the area of athletics. Yes...it comes down to funding, but solutions can be found. From small to large, I feel some of our problems can be solved by growing the alumni program and leadership making better decisions about the details. Ideas?...well....simple decisions like taking the redundant name "North Texas" off the helmet (when it's on the jersey) and replacing with the attacking Eagle would be a small yet great detail. Choosing a less puke laden shade of green for the jerseys, better concessions, more in game traditions, not playing the screeching Eagle three times where it sounds corny (one time will do)etc...I can go on and on...we have all read the posts. We know what we all want.

I still care about growing this program out of the laughing stock that it has earned on the shoulders of the current leadership at UNT. I will not pretend to have all of the answers to solve our woes because I don't. My goal to is for our alumni to be heard by those who make the decisions. UNT admin....serve your customers. Listen and you will be rewarded. It's that simple. Have a great end to your week and as always.

GO MEAN GREEN!! and Go STARS!!

Best,

MeanGreenEagle1

[KRAM1]

As a Professor, I always find it helpful to listen to my students. I am there to serve them...not the other way around. I am there each day to provide them with a valuable product which of course is education. I am in the business of sales. I sell education and my college profits off of it in several ways. I like to think I improve lives. These results of a quality product are powerful....they sustain themselves. They lead to growth. If my product at some point is not up to par, my "customers" notice quickly and I see the negative results. My "fan base" declines and they become detached. My enrollment declines. Bottom line, I am very fortunate to have the students I have in each of my classes. I am appreciative and I am happy to serve them..for they are what sustains me on many levels. If they have an idea that overall helps improve my class, I listen. How does this relate to UNT football?

This whole concept has me thinking about the current state of the football program and our future. Notice how I say "our" future. Unfortunately, I feel the past and current UNT admin have missed this entire concept in some areas completely. As a Alumnus of my beloved UNT, I have always felt the administration ignored some great ideas the student body conceived in a variety of campus projects and programs. Due to the current state of our program, I believe it is critical at this point that we are listened to. They run the show, we follow right? Wrong...the students and alumnus run the show. We are what sustains them. We buy their product. We help grow their product. We contribute and they are supposed to listen. It's a form of assessment for them etc etc.

Look at the alumni program for LSU....wow. Truly magical sustainable pipeline of contribution. How do I know, well...I am an indoctrinated LSU fan...my wife and her entire family all went to LSU. I have learned so much from them. So when they have their Purple and Gold flying and even though UNT football is tattered, torn and frayed, I wear my Mean Green Garb...with pride. They respect my loyalty even though we suck and they hope I can experience what is the norm for them each week....even when LSU loses.

How do we go about sending our message to UNT that we want to help? Well...I'm not talking about blind, angry rants about this or that..I'm talking about sincere solutions and ideas to help grow the program into a symbol of sustainable pride and growth. We get more involved. The alumni right now is so deeply divided which of course is a problem. Some are loyal and some are bitter. Even though I do not agree with some of the admins decisions over the years, I am appreciative of their improvements (The Stadium, Basketball, Golf etc.) to the athletic program as a whole. However, it's all about marketing to your customers. There is absolutely no reason why UNT can't be a powerhouse in the area of athletics. Yes...it comes down to funding, but solutions can be found. From small to large, I feel some of our problems can be solved by growing the alumni program and leadership making better decisions about the details. Ideas?...well....simple decisions like taking the redundant name "North Texas" off the helmet (when it's on the jersey) and replacing with the attacking Eagle would be a small yet great detail. Choosing a less puke laden shade of green for the jerseys, better concessions, more in game traditions, not playing the screeching Eagle three times where it sounds corny (one time will do)etc...I can go on and on...we have all read the posts. We know what we all want.

I still care about growing this program out of the laughing stock that it has earned on the shoulders of the current leadership at UNT. I will not pretend to have all of the answers to solve our woes because I don't. My goal to is for our alumni to be heard by those who make the decisions. UNT admin....serve your customers. Listen and you will be rewarded. It's that simple. Have a great end to your week and as always.

GO MEAN GREEN!! and Go STARS!!

Best,

MeanGreenEagle1

Nice job...what do you teach? What department? Glad to have professors who care about the university's overall health. Having professors who ignored (and worse bad mouthed) the program over the years has been one of the major problems UNT faced. There is still quite a bit of that attitude among your peers. Perhaps you can use the perspective you have to help change that attitude as well. It definitely has gotten better, but it has a long way to go...if the faculty and staff got behind the program it would go a long way in helping the student body get behind the program. As you know, faculty and staff tend to have a way of influencing the attitudes of their students. Thanks for your support. UNT could use more profs like you.

GO MEAN GREEN!

[GrayEagle]

I understand the tenor of your posting and largely agree with you. Perhaps the only point of contention would be that the current administration turns a deaf ear to its alumni and fans. That was so true for many years but I am beginning to notice a turnaround in the administration's stance.

The administrations prior to Norval Pohl, with the exception of Jitter Nolan and to a lesser extent Joe McConnell and Carl Matthews (basketball), have all turned a blind eye and ear to athletics. Their excuse was that they were building academics and couldn't afford guns and butter.

Now, academics has been vastly improved. We offer more than 200 fields of study in the three degrees offered and have and are adding more each year, often with outstanding professors. We shouldn't slight academics but at the same time athletics can do a lot to advance the perception of the university that it shouldn't be ignored.

Personally I believe that Norval Pohl got it, Gretchen Bataille got it and I know that Lane Rawlins understands it. The only one that doesn't seem to get it is chancellor Lee Jackson. His thrust has been UNT Dallas and the UNT Dallas Law School (which diminishes the prestige of the flagship university in Denton). He is building his legacy to the detriment of the Denton faculty, students and alumni. Only the Board of Regents can control him and they seem reluctant to do so.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Personally I believe that Norval Pohl got it, Gretchen Bataille got it and I know that Lane Rawlins understands it. The only one that doesn't seem to get it is chancellor Lee Jackson. His thrust has been UNT Dallas and the UNT Dallas Law School (which diminishes the prestige of the flagship university in Denton). He is building his legacy to the detriment of the Denton faculty, students and alumni. Only the Board of Regents can control him and they seem reluctant to do so.

I believe that you've got it.

[untjim1995]

The only one that doesn't seem to get it is chancellor Lee Jackson. His thrust has been UNT Dallas and the UNT Dallas Law School (which diminishes the prestige of the flagship university in Denton). He is building his legacy to the detriment of the Denton faculty, students and alumni. Only the Board of Regents can control him and they seem reluctant to do so.

You know, if this is really true about the BOR, then it just isn't really going to happen at UNT for football. Seeing how you are the longest standing fan of this school, you probably feel like this already, but it is just so disheartening that our BOR and the Chancellor take the stance that they do and there really is nothing that can be done about it. In reality, our school will continue to grow because of its location and academics, so the chancellor and the BOR don't have to do anything on those fronts to make athletics be in better than it is. The growth is already there, in the minds of these simpletons, and they don't care if the music school only draws 500 people for a recital while UNT Football attracts 20k to the town and back on campus. Because, in their minds, we are a teachers school and a music school and football is better to be watched at UT or somewhere else. I will tell you this, its enough to make people want to just give up if the mindset continues to prevail.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I understand the tenor of your posting and largely agree with you. Perhaps the only point of contention would be that the current administration turns a deaf ear to its alumni and fans. That was so true for many years but I am beginning to notice a turnaround in the administration's stance.

The administrations prior to Norval Pohl, with the exception of Jitter Nolan and to a lesser extent Joe McConnell and Carl Matthews (basketball), have all turned a blind eye and ear to athletics. Their excuse was that they were building academics and couldn't afford guns and butter.

Now, academics has been vastly improved. We offer more than 200 fields of study in the three degrees offered and have and are adding more each year, often with outstanding professors. We shouldn't slight academics but at the same time athletics can do a lot to advance the perception of the university that it shouldn't be ignored.

Personally I believe that Norval Pohl got it, Gretchen Bataille got it and I know that Lane Rawlins understands it. The only one that doesn't seem to get it is chancellor Lee Jackson. His thrust has been UNT Dallas and the UNT Dallas Law School (which diminishes the prestige of the flagship university in Denton). He is building his legacy to the detriment of the Denton faculty, students and alumni. Only the Board of Regents can control him and they seem reluctant to do so.

I think when UNT hired Lee Jackson as chancellor the agenda for all the UNT-Dallas/UNT Law School extras had already been agreed upon & set in stone. The only alternative our main campus would have ever had would be a requirement for the Dallas law school students to take at least 1 semester of classes at our main campus, but I think State Senator Royce West would have headed that one off at the pass.

UNT BOR's? I think we have a very pro-athletics BOR's hence that beautiful new stadium rising on that rolling Texas prairie which had to have their approval. Looking at our recent (30 plus years) football past in Denton while having HFC's that since 1980 have come nowhere close to a .500 W/L career; nevertheless, it took some major kajones for our BOR's to approve our new stadium and then send all that to Austin for Governor Perry to peruse.

This new stadium can be like a freshly cleaned chalkboard for anyone ever connected with UNT; that is, a fresh beginning and a time to create newfound optimism--if that is needed by some. My longtime football program model (even before their big BCS OU bowl win) for UNT, ie, Boise State obviously came to a similar intellectual junction at one time of their program and instead of choosing a southerly direction--they chose an upwardly bound northerly direction that 12 years ago not even their most optimistic Bronco fans would believe the heights it would take them. Nothing wrong with UNT being a copy cat, folks.

GMG!

Edited October 7, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[SilverEagle]

The administrations prior to Norval Pohl, with the exception of Jitter Nolan and to a lesser extent Joe McConnell and Carl Matthews (basketball), have all turned a blind eye and ear to athletics. Their excuse was that they were building academics and couldn't afford guns and butter.

I've been told by more than one person (including you Jack) that Dr. Matthews discouraged alumni giving gifts to the University. I was also told by more than one person that he strongly discouraged the creation of any money raising organization like the Mean Green Club. It's my understanding that Coach Mitchell discouraged it as well.

It's my understanding that in both instances, the reason had to do with their concern that if alumni started giving money to the school, then those alumni would be trying to tell them how to run their respective programs. If all this is true, then the real reason for the state of (or the status of) athletics at North Texas is not about financing, but about power.

But it goes much furthur back than Dr. Matthews. If anyone would like to gain a little insight into our culture, get a copy of "The Story of North Texas" and read about Dr. Bruces' attitude toward athletics.

[GrayEagle]

You know, if this is really true about the BOR, then it just isn't really going to happen at UNT for football. Seeing how you are the longest standing fan of this school, you probably feel like this already, but it is just so disheartening that our BOR and the Chancellor take the stance that they do and there really is nothing that can be done about it. In reality, our school will continue to grow because of its location and academics, so the chancellor and the BOR don't have to do anything on those fronts to make athletics be in better than it is. The growth is already there, in the minds of these simpletons, and they don't care if the music school only draws 500 people for a recital while UNT Football attracts 20k to the town and back on campus. Because, in their minds, we are a teachers school and a music school and football is better to be watched at UT or somewhere else. I will tell you this, its enough to make people want to just give up if the mindset continues to prevail.

Perhaps I left others with the impression that the task is hopeless. Maybe, but maybe not.

The chairman of the BOR is very pro athletics and is a former letterman. If Dan Smith can convince the majority of the board the need and priority of striking now and not procrastinating then we could have a bright future. We need to channel as much funding as we legally can into athletics. We have a window to the university sitting out there between two interstates that needs a heap of advertising. Successful athletic programs can provide more publicity for the university than any other means. As Nike says, "Just Do It."

[DallasGreen]

Perhaps I left others with the impression that the task is hopeless. Maybe, but maybe not.

The chairman of the BOR is very pro athletics and is a former letterman. If Dan Smith can convince the majority of the board the need and priority of striking now and not procrastinating then we could have a bright future. We need to channel as much funding as we legally can into athletics. We have a window to the university sitting out there between two interstates that needs a heap of advertising. Successful athletic programs can provide more publicity for the university than any other means. As Nike says, "Just Do It."

As much as the admins try to discourage publicity for anything other than that damn music school, location will always bail out UNT. The town is just as much of a problem as the admins. Arlington fronted over $400 million to make a billionaire (Jones) richer because they could see the long term results while Denton ISD spent $30 million to try to keep UNT from having a stadium. The stadium currently under construction at UNT could have been easily shared and Collins never would have had to be built but as always Denton is in one corner and UNT in the other.The result is extra costs to the taxpayers of Denton and a hardship for fundraising at North Texas. If UNT was in Lewisville or Frisco we'd probably be in the Big 12 by now, but little "d" will always cling to its old ways until enough forward thinking people move in and throw out the old guard. Even with the recession growth north from DFW continues to speed toward Denton. Only good can come of that.

[UNT90]

Personally I believe that Norval Pohl got it, Gretchen Bataille got it and I know that Lane Rawlins understands it. The only one that doesn't seem to get it is chancellor Lee Jackson. His thrust has been UNT Dallas and the UNT Dallas Law School (which diminishes the prestige of the flagship university in Denton). He is building his legacy to the detriment of the Denton faculty, students and alumni. Only the Board of Regents can control him and they seem reluctant to do so.

I think you are dead oh here. The problem is that Dallas Jackson's little buddy, Governor Hair, was on the news last night (chl 8) doing some dedication speech from UNT Dallas, talking about how badly schools like UNT Dallas are needed, blah blah blah.... I couldn't see him, but I just know Dallas Jackson was close by, talking up UNT Dallas to Gov. Hair.

The BOR is basically a political entity, and I believe the Chancellor (and possibly the BOR) position is appointed by the governor's office, no?

As long as Gov. Hair is in office, you are guaranteed 2 things: Dallas Jackson as your UNT Chancellor and as many toll roads that can possibly be built.

[MeanGreenEagle1]

Thank you Kram1. It's probably wise that I remain "anonymous" as to what and where I teach. As far as the other posts....all good points and observations. I have been concerned with Lee Jackson's agenda from the beginning. I was so disgusted how they treated GB on her exit. I can assure you that the "uppers" in power are closer to being defined as politicians more than anything. They clearly separate themselves from faculty in their daily roles as admins no matter where you go in academia. It's an ugly relationship sometimes. However, it can be a beautiful relationship with the right people invested in the institution. More often than not, the current admin is more concerned about what their "mark" will be and what will be said about it when they are gone. So true and so sad. Things like athletic program growth are no longer a priority.

I continue to question the BOR's and of course LJ's investment in our school. LJ is smitten by having the name "Dallas" attached to UNT's name...just look at UTD and it's progress. Believe me, LJ has a clear path. Yes...positive gains but at a price. Time will tell. I liken him to Agamemnon from the Trojan War. He wants to see his name attached to his legacy.

Speaking from my professional experience, it seems that once you go beyond the classroom and cross into the "Dark Side" (Star Wars Reference), that school leadership quickly steps into their own agenda leaving the important people out of the decision making process. The BOR and LJ do have the perceived power, but I assure you the students, faculty and alumni have more say so than they think. In essence, it is the faculty and staff who run the school. Period. We are in the trenches in the classroom. We hear from our "customers" every day...far more than school leadership does in an entire semester. So, does the BOR and LJ turn a blind eye in the midst of other dedicated and invested faculty and staff? You better believe it. Pride can be shown two ways. One is highly dangerous. The other is a pride our school deserves and a pride that every UNT stakeholder bleeds green for. We will get there...when the people that truly matter continue to stand up and have the courage to draw a line in the sand. I wager we have more people standing on our side of the line than the BOR's and LJ's "club". Thank you for reading.

Go Mean Green and Go Stars

[GrayEagle]

I've been told by more than one person (including you Jack) that Dr. Matthews discouraged alumni giving gifts to the University. I was also told by more than one person that he strongly discouraged the creation of any money raising organization like the Mean Green Club. It's my understanding that Coach Mitchell discouraged it as well.

It's my understanding that in both instances, the reason had to do with their concern that if alumni started giving money to the school, then those alumni would be trying to tell them how to run their respective programs. If all this is true, then the real reason for the state of (or the status of) athletics at North Texas is not about financing, but about power.

But it goes much furthur back than Dr. Matthews. If anyone would like to gain a little insight into our culture, get a copy of "The Story of North Texas" and read about Dr. Bruces' attitude toward athletics.

I need to get a copy of "The Story of North Texas" to see how much coincides with my remembrances. I may be off-base on some things and a few go back before my time but I've been exposed to a lot in the 60+ years since I first enrolled.

I can guess what Dr. Bruce thought about athletics. In spite of the largest enrollment of all of the teacher's colleges no one ever tried to advance our stature in athletics until Joe McConnell. During his tenure we became a "major" college as the Division I classification was known at that time.

As to Carl Matthews, he was a HUGE basketball fan and was responsible for getting us into the Missouri Valley Conference. The Valley was one of the top basketball conferences in the country at that time with such powers as Cincinnati, Louisville, Wichita State, and other top programs. But, it is true that he discouraged (forbade?) the formation of any support group that would give money to the university because he thought that it would give them too much power. So yes, it was all about power. He probably looked down the road at the Mustang Club to support his opinion. I qualified his less than rabid support with the word "basketball" but he did do a little to advance our national posture in sports.

Coach Mitchell just followed orders. If they gave him lemons he would make lemonade. A great coach in developing the talent that he had because he wasn't a great recruiter. In fact many, if not most, of his players had to enroll in school then tryout for the team. If you made the team you would then get a scholarship. From knowing him, I would doubt that he cared about donations from alumni because he would continue to run the Xs and Os of his team as he saw fit. I also got the impression that few wanted to cross him.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I need to get a copy of "The Story of North Texas" to see how much coincides with my remembrances. I may be off-base on some things and a few go back before my time but I've been exposed to a lot in the 60+ years since I first enrolled.

I can guess what Dr. Bruce thought about athletics. In spite of the largest enrollment of all of the teacher's colleges no one ever tried to advance our stature in athletics until Joe McConnell. During his tenure we became a "major" college as the Division I classification was known at that time.

As to Carl Matthews, he was a HUGE basketball fan and was responsible for getting us into the Missouri Valley Conference. The Valley was one of the top basketball conferences in the country at that time with such powers as Cincinnati, Louisville, Wichita State, and other top programs. But, it is true that he discouraged (forbade?) the formation of any support group that would give money to the university because he thought that it would give them too much power. So yes, it was all about power. He probably looked down the road at the Mustang Club to support his opinion. I qualified his less than rabid support with the word "basketball" but he did do a little to advance our national posture in sports.

Coach Mitchell just followed orders. If they gave him lemons he would make lemonade. A great coach in developing the talent that he had because he wasn't a great recruiter. In fact many, if not most, of his players had to enroll in school then tryout for the team. If you made the team you would then get a scholarship. From knowing him, I would doubt that he cared about donations from alumni because he would continue to run the Xs and Os of his team as he saw fit. I also got the impression that few wanted to cross him.

Jack, I bought a copy of it years ago from Borders off West Freeway, Fort Worth. Was surprised to even see it in their Texana collection quite frankly. Didn't Harry have a promo of this book on the front page of GMG.com recently? Been years since I read it, but I think the book goes about as far as the beginnings of the Hurley era. Dr. Rogers who wrote this book died a few years ago, but a new revised edition should be added because of the many new and interesting chapters that have happened to our school.

GMG!

GMG!

[GrandGreen]

The BOR is a mixed group, they are political as they are all there because of the Governor. They obviously support athletics to some degree, the question is how much. The way the athletic fee is apparently set up the BOR can continue to increase the fee in increments not greater than 10% until it reaches the state max of $20 per hour. What I expect them to do is continue to raise the fee and increase coaches salaries, not to the level of SMU salaries but to the top of the Belt. If they don't do at least that much NT will be in trouble.

As an aside the BOR better be foremost about education. This UNT will prosper because of location is only true, if you equal prosper with mediocrity. Tech has significantly raised at least their stated standards, UTA is allowing huge increases in enrollments, all the schools that are striving for tier one status are working hard to get there. NT which is far behind in research, must rapidly advance or they are going to be passed by Houston, Tech, UTSA, UTEP and UTA. The way UTD is structured, I think they are already far ahead of the other schools. This is what Jackson and the BOR should be concentrating on, not a Dallas fiefdom.

[McKinneyMiner]

I need to get a copy of "The Story of North Texas" to see how much coincides with my remembrances.

There are copies to be found on the Internet for as low as about $10.00 hardback...

I did a search for it on Bookfinder and came up with multiple listings...

[Green Mean]

The school is in a huge transition period. This past decade has been a turning point as far as athletics, perception, school pride, new academic facilities etc. I think we have everything in place to succeed at this point. Had RV made a better hire 4 years ago and our FB program was on the rise then the tone on this board would be completely different. I don't know any of the BOR people but I have heard mixed opinions on them but we need to make sure that the admins are 100% pro athletics and are willing to go the extra mile to be successful.

I've always believed you have to give our fans/alums to come back and attend games. As much school pride and love you have for your school, it is really a whipping in the ass when your football team goes out there and lose just about every weekend. So at this point we know that football will drive the bus so the goal is to get a new coach that can turn this program around and take this thing where it has never really been. When this happens then donations to the school and athletics will come and the MGC will skyrocket in numbers. When that happens I think the outlook for this university will be extremely different.

[Denia Park Pedro]

As much as the admins try to discourage publicity for anything other than that damn music school

Dude, what the eff? I don't know about you, but I think it's awesome that the COM is one of the best in the country, and they'd be full on retard to not promote the hell out of it. I check their events calendar about as much as I do the athletics department's. If you haven't heard the Collegium Singers you're missing out.

When you have pride in your school, have pride in your school.

[island eagle]

Dude, what the eff? I don't know about you, but I think it's awesome that the COM is one of the best in the country, and they'd be full on retard to not promote the hell out of it. I check their events calendar about as much as I do the athletics department's. If you haven't heard the Collegium Singers you're missing out.

When you have pride in your school, have pride in your school.

Well said and to the point.

[NovaScotiaGreen]

Dude, what the eff? I don't know about you, but I think it's awesome that the COM is one of the best in the country, and they'd be full on retard to not promote the hell out of it. I check their events calendar about as much as I do the athletics department's. If you haven't heard the Collegium Singers you're missing out.

When you have pride in your school, have pride in your school.

Ditto!

[SilverEagle]

Dude, what the eff? I don't know about you, but I think it's awesome that the COM is one of the best in the country, and they'd be full on retard to not promote the hell out of it. I check their events calendar about as much as I do the athletics department's. If you haven't heard the Collegium Singers you're missing out.

When you have pride in your school, have pride in your school.

I totally agree with what you are saying. But let me point out that the school of music used to be much more involved in athletic events than it is today. The North Texas band of my youth (60's) used to have people from all the departments of the school of music.....including candidates for the lab bands. And the reason for that is because Maurice McAdow used to be the gate keeper for those programs. If you wanted to be in the lab band, or orchestra etc, you had to go through Mr. McAdow, and he required just about everyone to take a turn in the marching band. As a result the North Texas marching band used to be much better than any of the most recent versions (the last three decades) of the Green Brigade. Back then, the school of music (thanks to Mr. McAdow) used to make sure that (musically) North Texas was always putting it's best foot forward at football games.

Not so anymore. Even the most recent trend/fad the drum line doesn't participate with the band at games anymore. The current GB drum line is not the "first team".

Who made that decision? My guess is the COM.

[SilverEagle]

I need to get a copy of "The Story of North Texas" to see how much coincides with my remembrances. I may be off-base on some things and a few go back before my time but I've been exposed to a lot in the 60+ years since I first enrolled."

Jack, I'll bring mine tomorrow so you can borrow it.

Here's a little tidbit. This is from George M. Crutzinger who was the chairman of the faculty athletic committee in 1922.

"The 1921-22 academic year had been brought to a near-crisis in the realm of intercollegiate athletics in the United States which followed soon after the great furor in organized baseball". Mr. Crutzinger declared that the country was about to run off after strange gods, or possibly to allow strange gods or their worshippers, to run off with its sports." He furthur stated..."The great American tendency toward commercialism seems to constitute the root of all the evils that are being discussed. Institutions have thought they found in athletic sports a priceless adversiting asset, and have appropriated money accordingly."

He later says......."The alumni and camp followers of various sorts have offered the athletics of their pet institution upon the altar of the great goddess of chance."

[LoveMG]

Not so anymore. Even the most recent trend/fad the drum line doesn't participate with the band at games anymore. The current GB drum line is not the "first team".

Who made that decision? My guess is the COM.

the drum line used to be the standout part of the band. now they just blend in. i like the band as far as size and spirit but i agree the com is not fully supportive of athletics. but neither is much of the student body or denton in general.

[Green Nightmare]

... and they'd be full on retard to not promote the hell out of it.

Never go full retard

[untjim1995]

Dude, what the eff? I don't know about you, but I think it's awesome that the COM is one of the best in the country, and they'd be full on retard to not promote the hell out of it. I check their events calendar about as much as I do the athletics department's. If you haven't heard the Collegium Singers you're missing out.

When you have pride in your school, have pride in your school.

That's great that you care about both. How many others are like you, though? My guess is not many who attend a COM event would consider going to a football game and vice versa. When the administration and faculty and town have mostly supported the COM over the athletics dept., you see why you get posts like the one you responded to earlier. I wish it wasn't about either/or, but it usually is about either/or when it comes to UNT and Denton.

[Mean Green 93-98]

That's great that you care about both. How many others are like you, though? My guess is not many who attend a COM event would consider going to a football game and vice versa. When the administration and faculty and town have mostly supported the COM over the athletics dept., you see why you get posts like the one you responded to earlier. I wish it wasn't about either/or, but it usually is about either/or when it comes to UNT and Denton.

I think we would all acknowledge that we haven't all directly supported every department in the University. But that doesn't mean that we don't want every department in the University to excel. When someone tries to tear down a department or college within his own university that does excel, it comes across as petty and not remotely constructive.

Lee Moses

Bachelor of Music 1998