The Dodge Train

forevereagle · September 26, 2010

I will wait to get on the train. It will be back around and I am going to wait at the station to see what the train looks like a little later on. I don't want to get on a train that, right now, seems destined to derail at any point. I have been on the train the past few years and been severely burned by that.

PlummMeanGreen · September 26, 2010

I will wait to get on the train. It will be back around and I am going to wait at the station to see what the train looks like a little later on. I don't want to get on a train that, right now, seems destined to derail at any point. I have been on the train the past few years and been severely burned by that.

In most of our speculation of coaches, many of us have tried to add "IF" we need a new coach.

Coach Dodge knows what he has to do at UNT and will face up to that challenge like a man. After all, he has been successful at another level of football although he does not get much credit for that and even at Texas High School football's highest level to boot. I mean it wasn't like he had his success at a Class AA Texas HS program.

Some of us were around in 2001 to see one of the great coaching come-back stories in the NCAA--it was stuff that happened years later that turned many of us south on our coach back in that day, but that comeback was quite a thing to see happen at any level; and the Mean Green players of that season were the vehicle that made it happen. I hope history will repeat itself for all of us, but it it doesn't......I know TDodge and UNT will part as friends from what we've seen of this man thus far.

GMG!

Edited September 26, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

KingDL1 · September 27, 2010

Yep. If Dodge can pull a team together that has this much going against it and win on the road, he can win when he gets/keeps all of his tools in place for an entire season! He is the man for the future, I am completely convinced. He is a great match for what this program needs at this point in time. We need stability and a coach who can build foundation for a strong program for the long-haul. Stop the coaching marry-go-round that NT has had over the years and BUILD something. Now is the time.

Surly you are joking, what merry-go-round are you talking about? Two coaches in 13 years? Really, wow what a wild merry-go-round. All I can figure if you are not joking you need to seek help. Dodge has a shot, but odds are against him, he will get his seven wins or we will have a whole new coaching staff. Your idea of program suicide is either a bad joke or you really don't have a clue. Maybe you are simply trolling and I fell for it.

emmitt01 · September 27, 2010

Yep. If Dodge can pull a team together that has this much going against it and win on the road, he can win when he gets/keeps all of his tools in place for an entire season! He is the man for the future, I am completely convinced. He is a great match for what this program needs at this point in time. We need stability and a coach who can build foundation for a strong program for the long-haul. Stop the coaching marry-go-round that NT has had over the years and BUILD something. Now is the time.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug...

NT03 · September 27, 2010

We had a coach who went 20 games under .500 & got a practice field named after him. Our next coach is currently 6 - 34 and still has strong supporters and people who think he is the man to lead us in the right direction. I can't imagine what will happen if we ever get someone in here who can maintain a .500 record. Key to the city ? Mayor of Denton ? Employee of the month ?

the real grad88 · September 27, 2010

Surly you are joking, what merry-go-round are you talking about? Two coaches in 13 years? Really, wow what a wild merry-go-round. All I can figure if you are not joking you need to seek help. Dodge has a shot, but odds are against him, he will get his seven wins or we will have a whole new coaching staff. Your idea of program suicide is either a bad joke or you really don't have a clue. Maybe you are simply trolling and I fell for it.

I want to see a coach that stays long enought to put his name on this team/program and the history books. Then, maybe he moves on to the true big time to finish off his career (or maybe not...maybe he just stays). I'll repeat myself... Dodge could fit that bill if he is given the chance. I will not apologize for that opinion. I can think of very few coaches who have the respect that Dodge has in Texas. We need a coach who can recruit the heck out of Texas. Dodge is the still that man. And, I believe he is going to show enough improvement (while facing GREAT odds against him) to get that chance. I personally believe that even 4 wins this season (with everything that has happened) will be enough to let him stay. RV knows his potential.

Graddean · September 27, 2010

Am I glad some of you people are not my supervisor. Can't we be happy for 24 hours or maybe even more? Dodge did not come here with the intent of destroying UNT football or world peace nor to cause global warming. It takes no more energy for us to be positive than it takes to be negative. As far as I know no one on this board has been asked to make any of the decisions. (If I am wrong I am sorry.) Of course, no one is happy with what has happened, but when something good does happen, we immediately start giving reasons why it really wasn't any good. I intend to enjoy the W until O jave reason not to. By the way my first year at North Texas, the boys won 2 games. Talk about frustration.

Green Mean · September 27, 2010

I want to see a coach that stays long enought to put his name on this team/program and the history books. Then, maybe he moves on to the true big time to finish off his career (or maybe not...maybe he just stays). I'll repeat myself... Dodge could fit that bill if he is given the chance. I will not apologize for that opinion. I can think of very few coaches who have the respect that Dodge has in Texas. We need a coach who can recruit the heck out of Texas. Dodge is the still that man. And, I believe he is going to show enough improvement (while facing GREAT odds against him) to get that chance. I personally believe that even 4 wins this season (with everything that has happened) will be enough to let him stay. RV knows his potential.

So what do you say when you have failed miserably at your job for 3 years going on 4? The truth is that in any new hired coach...the foundation gets built within the first 2 years. It doesn't mean you become a super successful team but a foundation is to be built within 2 seasons. Dodge is a respected coach but he is a respected High School coach. Whatever credibility the man had higher than that all have gone to hell the last 4 years. And he has already put this team and program in the history books. It's in the sucking chapter of our history book so don't give me this garbage that Dodge needs to build a foundation and stuff. If you don't have a foundation in year 4 then get the heck out of town.

PlummMeanGreen · September 27, 2010

We had a coach who went 20 games under .500 & got a practice field named after him. Our next coach is currently 6 - 34 and still has strong supporters and people who think he is the man to lead us in the right direction. I can't imagine what will happen if we ever get someone in here who can maintain a .500 record. Key to the city ? Mayor of Denton ? Employee of the month ?

Please Don' Shoot Me! (but rather just wing me)

...or just maybe a Big 10 school come's a callin' and hires our coach away? I'll that that any day of the year quite frankly.

Boise State (who I am watching their replay on ESPNU now) has had 5 head football coaches in the space of 12 or so years (give/take). That is an amazing statistic considering the Broncos have not lost a beat or any momentum and have had 2 BCS bowls in that span of time, too.

Todd Dodge? If he doesn't get his wins he's gone and he's not protesting it. He was tutored at the University of Texas so he is not naive' as to what is expected by alums and fans even in the upper echelon of NCAA college football--it don't get much higher than UT. YET........with the injuries this season, I think some on this forum might bend and say "6" wins but I think 7 will still be the bell cow. (Now if UNT goes to a bowl as the SBC's 2'nd bowl team with a 6 & 6 record--all bets are off since DD was 5 & 6 and went to the NO's Bowl in 2001--his 4'th under .500 season in a row. Most likely, 6 & 6 in the SBC won't land you a bowl, though.

A Todd Dodge File of Sorts:

(1) When hired in mid December of his hiring year all other FBS schools were wrapping up their early and Winter recruiting so that year at most FBS schools would be called a recruiting washout--although that is seldom acknowledged on this forum. A Winning Formula Here? :huh: 2 bad recruiting seasons before Dodge signed on with UNT and then his first recruiting season would probably be spent on getting ready for his 1'st full recruiting season--except it would be his Year 2 at UNT. Keep in mind, after his first full recruiting class in Year 2 UNT powers that be will very graciously give TDodge 2 more years (counting this season) to prove himself in spite of starting his UNT coaching career in a deep, deep, deep empty well.

(2) Ask OldTimer how bad DD's last 2 recruiting classes were overall which hardly helped Dodge come in on a roll; that is, had his predessessor been hired away at Big Time U which mean't he would have left our Mean Green cupboard with talent--that would not to be the case in Denton.

(3) Upon TDodge's hiring, he said almost from the git-go that "North Texas must get a new stadium" to even keep up with the SBC (that had gone "beep! beep!" past our football program. Remember that last night was our first win ever over FAU--even during 2 bowl years best I recollect and had they been in the SBC those 2 years--guess who would have gone to New Orleans? (Yet the day UNT hired Todd Dodge, there were no stadium blueprints on the table).

Excuses for Todd Dodge? No, but maybe the realism of a new coach who literally came in here with his back against the wall from the git-go. Yes, TDodge made some bad hires early on and his early PR was not over-whelming inasmuch as he closed the doors on all his practice sessions not allowing alums and MG fans to watch the team. Chalk some things off as lack of HFC experience at an FBS level.

TDodge has a tough row to hoe to keep his job in deed, but lets see what happens the rest of the way. Let's admire his efforts (he ain't trying to fail, folks); lets admire his team/our team and enjoy their successes when they have them; after all, save this Falls seniors, the rest of them will be back next year even if Coach Dodge is not.

If we have to change coaches in Denton after this November, I think our AD will go a completely different route not seen around these part since December, 1972, when an ex "name" coach just fired from SMU became available.

GMG!

emmitt01 · September 27, 2010

I want to see a coach that stays long enought to put his name on this team/program and the history books. Then, maybe he moves on to the true big time to finish off his career (or maybe not...maybe he just stays). I'll repeat myself... Dodge could fit that bill if he is given the chance. I will not apologize for that opinion. I can think of very few coaches who have the respect that Dodge has in Texas. We need a coach who can recruit the heck out of Texas. Dodge is the still that man. And, I believe he is going to show enough improvement (while facing GREAT odds against him) to get that chance. I personally believe that even 4 wins this season (with everything that has happened) will be enough to let him stay. RV knows his potential.

Obviously those four and five star players (please dont bring up the Julian Herron myth) are just so enamored with Dodge that they arent signing here out of respect.

I just gotta know, what record would signify failure to you?

Censored by Laurie · September 27, 2010

Obviously those four and five star players (please dont bring up the Julian Herron myth) are just so enamored with Dodge that they arent signing here out of respect.

I just gotta know, what record would signify failure to you?

Max Emfinger gives this post 5 stars.

Green Dozer · September 27, 2010

Please Don' Shoot Me! (but rather just wing me)

...or just maybe a Big 10 school come's a callin' and hires our coach away? I'll that that any day of the year quite frankly.

Boise State (who I am watching their replay on ESPNU now) has had 5 head football coaches in the space of 12 or so years (give/take). That is an amazing statistic considering the Broncos have not lost a beat or any momentum and have had 2 BCS bowls in that span of time, too.

Todd Dodge? If he doesn't get his wins he's gone and he's not protesting it. He was tutored at the University of Texas so he is not naive' as to what is expected by alums and fans even in the upper echelon of NCAA college football--it don't get much higher than UT. YET........with the injuries this season, I think some on this forum might bend and say "6" wins but I think 7 will still be the bell cow. (Now if UNT goes to a bowl as the SBC's 2'nd bowl team with a 6 & 6 record--all bets are off since DD was 5 & 6 and went to the NO's Bowl in 2001--his 4'th under .500 season in a row. Most likely, 6 & 6 in the SBC won't land you a bowl, though.

A Todd Dodge File of Sorts:

(1) When hired in mid December of his hiring year all other FBS schools were wrapping up their early and Winter recruiting so that year at most FBS schools would be called a recruiting washout--although that is seldom acknowledged on this forum. A Winning Formula Here? 2 bad recruiting seasons before Dodge signed on with UNT and then his first recruiting season would probably be spent on getting ready for his 1'st full recruiting season--except it would be his Year 2 at UNT. Keep in mind, after his first full recruiting class in Year 2 UNT powers that be will very graciously give TDodge 2 more years (counting this season) to prove himself in spite of starting his UNT coaching career in a deep, deep, deep empty well.

(2) Ask OldTimer how bad DD's last 2 recruiting classes were overall which hardly helped Dodge come in on a roll; that is, had his predessessor been hired away at Big Time U which mean't he would have left our Mean Green cupboard with talent--that would not to be the case in Denton.

(3) Upon TDodge's hiring, he said almost from the git-go that "North Texas must get a new stadium" to even keep up with the SBC (that had gone "beep! beep!" past our football program. Remember that last night was our first win ever over FAU--even during 2 bowl years best I recollect and had they been in the SBC those 2 years--guess who would have gone to New Orleans? (Yet the day UNT hired Todd Dodge, there were no stadium blueprints on the table).

Excuses for Todd Dodge? No, but maybe the realism of a new coach who literally came in here with his back against the wall from the git-go. Yes, TDodge made some bad hires early on and his early PR was not over-whelming inasmuch as he closed the doors on all his practice sessions not allowing alums and MG fans to watch the team. Chalk some things off as lack of HFC experience at an FBS level.

TDodge has a tough row to hoe to keep his job in deed, but lets see what happens the rest of the way. Let's admire his efforts (he ain't trying to fail, folks); lets admire his team/our team and enjoy their successes when they have them; after all, save this Falls seniors, the rest of them will be back next year even if Coach Dodge is not.

If we have to change coaches in Denton after this November, I think our AD will go a completely different route not seen around these part since December, 1972, when an ex "name" coach just fired from SMU became available.

GMG!

Valid points and a well thought out post.

NT03 · September 27, 2010

(2) Ask OldTimer how bad DD's last 2 recruiting classes were overall which hardly helped Dodge come in on a roll; that is, had his predessessor been hired away at Big Time U which mean't he would have left our Mean Green cupboard with talent--that would not to be the case in Denton.

You mean the ones that produced all conference players in tobe,drake,gilmore,robertson & santiago

How many all conference players has TD had in 4 years now ?

Quoner · September 27, 2010

You mean the ones that produced all conference players in tobe,drake,gilmore,robertson & santiago

How many all conference players has TD had in 4 years now ?

I don't know why you keep bringing this up. PMG told us more than a week ago that we should stop comparing Dickey and Dodge and it is clear he's taking his own advice.

H-towngreen · September 27, 2010

Max Emfinger gives this post 5 stars.

It wasn't rated by Rivals

PlummMeanGreen · September 27, 2010

You mean the ones that produced all conference players in tobe,drake,gilmore,robertson & santiago

How many all conference players has TD had in 4 years now ?

I'm not real good at math, but I don't think TD's quite had his 4 years yet?

And did the previous coaching staff leave 1 coach behind to coach the ones mentioned and insure they made the All SBC team during the, uh, Dodge era, too? Interesting new coaching trend that would be.

The moratorium on comparing our last 2 coaches has ended, quoner, did you miss that post?

GMG!

CaribbeanGreen · September 27, 2010

There is no more failed argument than the ol' bare cupboard. Honestly, I'm shocked it actually came up again, considering how thoroughly disproven that's been. Maybe I shouldn't be, though.

emmitt01 · September 27, 2010

And did the previous coaching staff leave 1 coach behind to coach the ones mentioned and insure they made the All SBC team during the, uh, Dodge era, too? Interesting new coaching trend that would be.

GMG!

No. And its precisely BECAUSE the current coach CHOSE not to keep any of the coaches that his tenure is so far behind the eight ball still. Face it, there are no valid excuses...including and especially not blaming the bid bad Dickey ghost.

Green P1 · September 27, 2010

No. And its precisely BECAUSE the current coach CHOSE not to keep any of the coaches that his tenure is so far behind the eight ball still. Face it, there are no valid excuses...including and especially not blaming the bid bad Dickey ghost.

I feel like we're friends now.... other than the Riley stuff.

TheTastyGreek · September 27, 2010

The first recruiting class was put together on a shorter timetable than what could have been because Dodge chose to ride out his last year and state championship with Southlake.

I don't blame him for it, and I don't hold the decision against him. Because I seem to recall that the class was, at the time, regarded as quite formidable. Even without the benefit of extra time (and other coaches in our league like Stockstill had even less time with their first class), Dodge did a commendable job of using his high school observations to bring in what was heralded at the time as a stellar class. Even if we're not satisfied with that class anymore, the man made a conscious choice and his own decision shouldn't be used as an excuse to somehow justify greater latitude.

I'll also point out that he had a hell of a lot more time to put together the class that opened his first season as head coach than others in the conference and the region. Not naming names, out of deference to Keith7. Also, if we're making excuses for first classes... At least Dodge had a chance to actually assemble a first class before starting his head coaching tenure. Unlike Dickey, who started in March after Simon was fired, after national signing day and just a week before spring practice started. Not that I recall anyone using it as an argument in defense of his slow start back when the masses were calling for his scalp... Of course, that may be because Dickey somehow managed to post 3 wins in his first year, a winning Big West conference record that consisted of victories over Boise State, Nevada, and NMSU.

Again... Despite coming in with NO recruits of his own and barely enough time to find his office (did we have offices for the coaches back in 1998?), Dickey posted as many conference wins THAT YEAR as Todd Dodge has posted in his entire career. Including Saturday's win against FAU.

The stuff about inferior talent... Well, that's already been discussed to death.

GrayEagle · September 27, 2010

The first recruiting class was put together on a shorter timetable than what could have been because Dodge chose to ride out his last year and state championship with Southlake.

I don't blame him for it, and I don't hold the decision against him. Because I seem to recall that the class was, at the time, regarded as quite formidable. Even without the benefit of extra time (and other coaches in our league like Stockstill had even less time with their first class), Dodge did a commendable job of using his high school observations to bring in what was heralded at the time as a stellar class. Even if we're not satisfied with that class anymore, the man made a conscious choice and his own decision shouldn't be used as an excuse to somehow justify greater latitude.

I'll also point out that he had a hell of a lot more time to put together the class that opened his first season as head coach than others in the conference and the region. Not naming names, out of deference to Keith7. Also, if we're making excuses for first classes... At least Dodge had a chance to actually assemble a first class before starting his head coaching tenure. Unlike Dickey, who started in March after Simon was fired, after national signing day and just a week before spring practice started. Not that I recall anyone using it as an argument in defense of his slow start back when the masses were calling for his scalp... Of course, that may be because Dickey somehow managed to post 3 wins in his first year, a winning Big West conference record that consisted of victories over Boise State, Nevada, and NMSU.

Again... Despite coming in with NO recruits of his own and barely enough time to find his office (did we have offices for the coaches back in 1998?), Dickey posted as many conference wins THAT YEAR as Todd Dodge has posted in his entire career. Including Saturday's win against FAU.

The stuff about inferior talent... Well, that's already been discussed to death.

This thread has been beat to death and I'll not take it further except to contest your last statement. The FAU win is Dodges's fourth conference win (WKU twice, ULM and FAU). The first WKU win came when they were provisional members so that doesn't count.

Who cares about the coaching comparison? Both had horrible coaching records and unless Dodge either wins seven or gets a conference championship with six wins I think that he should be gone.

Danish43 · September 27, 2010

Welch,
I think people just want to be happy for a change. We all understand the overall picture. But, there is a silver lining. We now have an offensive coordinator who is tailoring the game plan to the players he has week-to-week instead of insisting the we run the spread come hell or high water as in year's past.

If Canales keeps planning and coaching us to our strengths, we could break even or do better in the Belt. Remember, Dodge is no longer coaching the QB, drawing up the game plan or calling the shots. That in and of itself had many of us believe, pre-injuries, that this thing could be bowl worthy.

With the injuries, and with Canales doing what he did yesterday, we could still do well in conference. And, to me and others, we'll take that improvement and look forward to 2011.

That is a good observation Lonnie especially for those that didnot see the game.

rcade · September 27, 2010

For those who jumped off the train the last couple of weeks good to have you back on the train. You are either on or off the train.....just pick one for the rest of the season.

This win is great. I predicted a victory because I had a feeling the team was better than its 0-3 record.

But how about we wait until Dodge has won two conference games in a row -- something he has never done -- before declaring this team is on the right track and all the doubters are wrong?

Edited September 27, 2010 by rcade

Welch · September 27, 2010

Its funny how the length of time it takes for a coach to develop a team increases a year each year.

Four years is more than plenty. They are all Dodge's athletes.

I'm not on the Dodge train... I'm on the North Texas train. If Dodge is best for NT then so be it, if he is not then so be it. I'm starting to think he is not. I don't understand those who are 100% for Dodge this far into his career with us. The fact is, we are loosing.

When the track team placed 4th in conference this year, you guys thought that was terrible. Yet we have a team that has not won more than 2 conference games a season and you're ok with the coach? Ridiculous.

PlummMeanGreen · September 27, 2010

No. And its precisely BECAUSE the current coach CHOSE not to keep any of the coaches that his tenure is so far behind the eight ball still. Face it, there are no valid excuses...including and especially not blaming the bid bad Dickey ghost.

:rolleyes:

So now its en vogue to retain coaches from a prior staff that had 2 losing seasons under a coach with a well under .500 W/L career? That would be the "North Texas" thing to do alright and maybe such thinking which has kept this program persevering as a longterm scavenger fish in the NCAA most of my adult life and prevented many of you from ever being around when UNT actually had any coach with an above .500 career W/L record.

More of the "North Texas" thing? If TD were fired & then we hired "ANY" assistant from his staff. I think AD Rick V is on his way of breaking a whole bunch of negative cycles in Mean Green Country that have kept us barefoot n' pregnant (so to speak) as the school who coulda'--woulda'--shoulda'--but never, uh, did'a. Even Dodge upon hiring said "we need to get out of this North Texas has great potential thing" and actually make it happen. Well, we will all soon find out if North Texas still is that school with all that untapped potential. AND........it may very well be someone else may have to come in here and tap into all that potential if TDodge doesn't get the 7 wins.

Granted, I really need to get out of these DD/TD discussions because (like friend GrayEagle posted) "...both had horrible coaching records and unless Dodge either wins seven or gets a conference championship with six wins I think that he should be gone" and I think that was basically what I posted on my above epistle albeit I was saying 6 wins and being the 2'nd SBC bowl participant might do it for this lone fan.

Then I (once again) think about most of the Young Gun Alums on this board who have never been part of a MG football program that had any coach with an above .500 career W/L record and I have to consider that that is all they really have to talk about. Again........all that somewhat like the 2 defeated old Confederates veterans comparing their own respective experiences in the War Between the States when one said: "Hey! We didn't get our butts kicked nearly as bad at Vicksburg as you guys did at Gettysburg." :blink: