Full Neinas Report

UNTflyer · September 24, 2010

At a time when our fan base is fragmented and angry, the athletic department passes on a chance to hit a homerun and energize the fan base. This public version of the report reveals nothing we don't already know. I would prefer no public report to this report.

Except for baseball in 2013. If this is truly the goal, then an announcement on a new facility will certainly be made by the spring.

Green Dozer · September 24, 2010

It's always interesting when things come full circle.

Studies have been done for decades about why big school systems are having problems. A study is commissioned and the report says "big school systems bad, small schools systems good". Yet they keep building BIG school systems and essentially ignore the report.

One of the first things that Hayden Fry did when he arrived at NT was to get out in the LOCAL COMMUNITY and attempt to build support. One spring (his first year or so at NT) he put together a caravan that went to various small towns in the Denton area. They would stop at the town squares and have an impromptu pep rally and then go about distributing schedules and applications for season tickets to the various business owners. This was very well received by the various small towns.

It just goes round and round, but for some reason people just don't want to listen.

Silver, I agree, and will add to this. I think one of the many positives about Johnny Jones and his staff is that they live here in Denton. Charlie Leonard is a really nice guy and a fun guy to talk sports with, not just basketball I see them at Sweetwater, Pourhouse, and Fuzzy's, so you feel like you know them when you see them at work on the court. Same with Dickey. Though at times very rough on the edges, you would see he and his family out at places in Denton. And he would speak to you nicely I might add.

I think, in a small community like Denton still is, it is important for the folks in high profile positions to be visible in the community. Hey, I know they can't be Hank Dickenson, nor can they deliver meals on wheels, but just being seen from time to time is a good thing. I did not like the fact that Dodge did not move to Denton. And his first couple of years, most of his staff did not live in Denton either. On a lot of levels, it is best for the community if they want its support, and of course they can keep a better reign on the players, if they live here.

houstonmeangreen · September 24, 2010

Whatever our fan base or potential fan base is...the bottom line comes to winning and marketing. The one thing I did like on the report was when he said that whenever we are marketing the university then include athletics in there. I know that's not a genius idea but you can separate them and still have them in the same ad/commercial.

SMU has the Dallas market but it is a niche market right now. Unless or until they become what TCU is then they will always be niche. Us on the other hand...if we start making some noise football and continue to progress in basketball then the possibilities are really endless.

SMU has the Dallas market but it is a niche market right now their attendance doesn't indicate this to be the case...they have the newspaper and tv, thats all.

Green Mean · September 24, 2010

SMU has the Dallas market but it is a niche market right now their attendance doesn't indicate this to be the case...they have the newspaper and tv, thats all.

When I say niche I mean very small student population...they have a alumni here but not the numbers we would be able to generate. Yes they have the Dallas market since they are centrally located in Dallas and have history such as being in the SWC. That probably won't ever change. However because of their size combined with two decades of joke football...they have a lot ground to make up.

All About UNT · September 24, 2010

When I say niche I mean very small student population...they have a alumni here but not the numbers we would be able to generate. Yes they have the Dallas market since they are centrally located in Dallas and have history such as being in the SWC. That probably won't ever change. However because of their size combined with two decades of joke football...they have a lot ground to make up.

combine your points with the fact that the average person in DFW doesn't relate to SMU and has premonitions about the school itself...and you have a school that could never truly harness the Dallas potential like a public school could. SMU fans may call this thought asinine but they know deep down that it is the truth. How many butts are in the seats of schools like SMU? Touted for being an elite (perception wise) school with elite money to back it. When fans shout out and post things like "your students will be our employees and servants" or "your graduates flip my kids burgers on the way to the beach" how is anyone going to get behind that mentality? The two things that hold TCU back from 50k in the seats everygame is that it is a private Christian University (not a slight on my behalf) and that their colors are purple. Lets be real.....no man truly feels comfortable sporting purple.

Green Mean · September 24, 2010

combine your points with the fact that the average person in DFW doesn't relate to SMU and has premonitions about the school itself...and you have a school that could never truly harness the Dallas potential like a public school could. SMU fans may call this thought asinine but they know deep down that it is the truth. How many butts are in the seats of schools like SMU? Touted for being an elite (perception wise) school with elite money to back it. When fans shout out and post things like "your students will be our employees and servants" or "your graduates flip my kids burgers on the way to the beach" how is anyone going to get behind that mentality? The two things that hold TCU back from 50k in the seats everygame is that it is a private Christian University (not a slight on my behalf) and that their colors are purple. Lets be real.....no man truly feels comfortable sporting purple.

The average SMU guy doesn't say those things. Look I'm not going to say there aren't SMU douchers out there but there as just as many as them as there are NT, TCU, UT and you can list every school's douchers.

The truth is that the things that hold these schools back is they are are just small universities. When you have 10 or 12 thousand total students it will be tough to fill 35K seats every game. Look at the University of Miami...it's not secret that they don't even come close to selling out home games because they aren't as big numbers wise as other schools.

I'm not sure you need to relate to them to like them or cheer for them. Truth is that the average DFW person may not relate to any college or university but they can still like college athletics. This is just the beginning of the SMU resurgence...they start making a lot more noise and the demand for SMU tickets will only increase.

PlummMeanGreen · September 24, 2010

If one would think about it, we don't really need Dallas or Fort Worth to do what we need to do in Mean Green Country but.......it would be quite nice to have some of our 100,000 plus NT Exes who reside in Greater Dallas and Greater Fort Worth involved in this new venture beginnning next Fall.

I think this new stadium is going to pull many back who long ago gave up with UNT athletics and we will pick up some who may have never even attended games if they lived on or near campus.

This football stadium is a life long dream for past generations of North Texas alums and Mean Greeners. Many of us knew so many who did not live long enough to see what they, too, had dreamed about as far as this new stadium is concerned.

GMG!

Baby Arm! · September 24, 2010

I've said for years that we should concentrate on marketing ourselves to Denton, Lewisville, Gainsville, McKinney, Sherman/Denison, even Wichita Falls. Basically every town between the Red River and the George Bush tollway.

AD staff and coaches should be speaking every week at any Lions, Kiawanas(sp?), Elk, Moose, Mason, JayCee, CofC, etc meeting they can find throughout the year. Show some game film, hand out some free tickets, Set aside a hospitality suite at the game for the members and their families can get free sodas and popcorn. None of that cost a lot.

SilverEagle · September 25, 2010

I've said for years that we should concentrate on marketing ourselves to Denton, Lewisville, Gainsville, McKinney, Sherman/Denison, even Wichita Falls. Basically every town between the Red River and the George Bush tollway.

AD staff and coaches should be speaking every week at any Lions, Kiawanas(sp?), Elk, Moose, Mason, JayCee, CofC, etc meeting they can find throughout the year. Show some game film, hand out some free tickets, Set aside a hospitality suite at the game for the members and their families can get free sodas and popcorn. None of that cost a lot.

This is EXACTLY why I have been advocating that we hire a coach like Don Carthel. He did all of the things that you listed above right after he took the job at WTA&M. He won, he provided the fans with an exciting product, and he WORKED THE COMMUNITY. As a result WTA&M has an average attendance that is twice the size of their enrollment (14K vs 7K).

http://gobuffsgo.com/coaches.aspx?rc=200&path=football

I see the young Franchione as being a person/coach in the same mold.

Edited September 25, 2010 by SilverEagle

GreenEagleEye · September 25, 2010

Obviously this report was very disappointing to many of us. Hopefully, somewhere in the fine workings of Athletics, the real word was spoken and the BOR were told exactly what needed to be said. I think Rawlins clearly selected this man to do the study and field the report simply because he would speak with his "style", stating what was in the best interest of UNT.

Only time will tell and I am sure there is more to be leaked from the "Official" version.

Side Show Joe · September 25, 2010

Except for baseball in 2013. If this is truly the goal, then an announcement on a new facility will certainly be made by the spring.

You are right. We all knew baseball was a goal for the program, but the 2013 date was a welcomed expectation. I think opening day at the new stadium would be a great time to announce the return of baseball. The game will hopefully be televised, and it would be a great opportunity to unveil the stadium renderings.

My original post was referring to football. I kind of have tunnel vision right now.

GrayEagle · September 25, 2010

And then, on the very next page:

So, how does that make us 5th?

My guess is that one spoke of football members and the other of all eleven members. Denver has an athletic budget of more than $24 million which I believe is the largest in the Sun Belt.

Green Mean · September 25, 2010

My guess is that one spoke of football members and the other of all eleven members. Denver has an athletic budget of more than $24 million which I believe is the largest in the Sun Belt.

I bet a good chunk of that goes to hockey and they also have skiiing, lacrosse, and gymnastics. I don't think any of those sports would be really cheap to run effectively.

Green to the Bone · September 25, 2010

After reading the thing for myself instead of relying on crowdsourcing, I've got to join the crowd.

My main questions involve transparency. The report is dated Aug. 19. Why is it only being released now?

Aug. 19-20 were the dates of the most recent meetings of the Board of Regents. One might check the BOR web site to see if there was any mention of a Neinas briefing at that meeting. However, the web site says this:

"Note: Board meeting agendas and minutes for the most recent Board meeting are approved at the subsequent meeting;

after approval, they will be posted on this page."

Emphasis added. There is no justification for not posting an agenda online until a subsequent meeting. Zero. It doesn't meet legal or normal standards. Minutes, OK; they need to be approved. Agendas, no. Under this policy, the agenda for a meeting in August would not be published on the web site until November. In fact, the most recent agenda on the web site is from May, which would have been the agenda approved by the board in August.

Public bodies have to certify their agendas as being true and accurate, but that's not an excuse for waiting months and months even to suggest what business was considered. No other Texas public body I'm familiar with does this.

The Texas Open Meetings Act provides lots of opportunities for closed meetings -- real estate, personnel, etc. Does this Neinas briefing count as a personnel matter? Hard to justify, in my opinion, unless they were talking about specific individuals. This was before the season opened, so if they had a closed-door briefing under the personnel exemption and it didn't involve RV's 7-win ultimatum or some other individual-specific matter, something's not right here.

I think the UNT community deserves a full explanation from the BOR on their policy on transparency.

UNTFan23 · September 25, 2010

Agreed. Traffic sucks. With the tollway opening up it will take you to 380 and hang a left and it should probably be faster than taking 35 all the way. I haven't tried it yet but that is what I am thinking. I guess only downside is if you want to pay the expensive tolls...though you would only need to do it one way.

The North Dallas Tollway has gone to 380 for a least a year now. On the tollway between the Keller Springs and Parker Rd toll plazas it is slow going, but once you get past the Parker Rd the traffic disperses and you can cruise at 70 MPH to 380. 380 has a bunch of lights but you can move at 55 MPH until Denton. Last season I'd leave N. Dallas at 5:30 and got to Denton around 6:30 with enough time to eat some grub in the Mean Green Club room under the Super Pit.

I'd have to look it up how much it would cost from Keller Springs to 380, but it is worth it compared to sitting in traffic on 635/35 all the way to Denton.