Full Neinas Report

[PlummMeanGreen]

We got compared with Akron quite a few times.... so I wanted to see what their stadium opener looked like. Question? Does that school not have school colors? Look at the crowd!

Akron Opening Day

Attendance (for Akron) started with 27,881 the followed with this:

18,340 (after winning the last one)

16,381

20,802

10,927

9,962

Is that scary or what? I mean...I get that being 3-9 is disheartening but we are 5-34 since 07 and still can put up almost 24k at ole Fouts Field? To end the year with your new stadium with only 10k in the stands is embarrassing.

But All About UNT, if we had a mascot with the name Zips might that affect attendance anywhere ?

Seriously, they have 10,000 less under-grad students than UNT and anyone can say what they want, but our last few record-breaking UNT Freshmen classes seem to hang in with this football program even during the down years.

No way of knowing, but I think our program is gaining some semblance of momentum totally based on our New Stadium @ The Mean Green Village. People know when they're at Fouts Field's this Fall, they will still be near the "palace" that will be the one single major vehicle that will get Mean Green football out of our multi-year funk.

I think our first year there, our numbers will be significant more than Akron U's. Now from the 2'nd year on, we need to start playing and beating some known football schools; you know, like we used to do up there in the old days?

GMG!

Edited September 24, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[houstonmeangreen]

I bet you are right, at least I hope so.

This is likely more of a light summary, the real deal might have recommendations of coach terminations and and other things best not aired publicly.

This is likely more of a light summary, the real deal might have recommendations of coach terminations and and other things best not aired publicly.

I think this is much more likely...must be something below the surface...ie coaching, etc, because this report is at the high school level, as is the presentation...perhaps this was just a little state cash for Rawlins buddy...perhaps this was Rawlins checkup on RV performance...perhaps this is some lobbying money fir unt's conference interest...perhaps Rawlins needs this to get approval for increase in coaches salaries...who knows, but I sure hope it isn't just this weakass report.

[cwb]

Not nearly enough in this thread.

Oooohhh Neinas. My bad.

[CMJ]

I wanted to scream that no one bothered to tell him the reason for low basketball attendance is the damned tipoff time. You are either going to have to market the hell out of all areas north of the lake or go to a later tip. You would draw 500 - 1,000 more for every game just by moving to a 7:35 p.m. tipoff. Those of us living in Dallas, Richardson, Garland, etc. won't even attempt that harrowing drive up 35 any more during the week. A simple change, well publicized, would bring big results for weekday games.

And yet our Thursday games are nearly always better attended than Saturday.

Also I must say, on nights of double headers (which has been most, but not all, league games the last few seasons) the tip times for the Men's games are closer to 7:30CST because the Women's games don't end until nearly 7.

So....if you see it's a 7pm start time...but it's a night of a doubleheader...go anyways. You may not miss anything.

Edited September 24, 2010 by CMJ

[Green Mean]

I wanted to scream that no one bothered to tell him the reason for low basketball attendance is the damned tipoff time. You are either going to have to market the hell out of all areas north of the lake or go to a later tip. You would draw 500 - 1,000 more for every game just by moving to a 7:35 p.m. tipoff. Those of us living in Dallas, Richardson, Garland, etc. won't even attempt that harrowing drive up 35 any more during the week. A simple change, well publicized, would bring big results for weekday games.

I still don't think MBB should be that low even with a 7pm start time. Just students alone there should be maybe 3k. Plus you combine that with people in and around the Denton area...it puzzles me why we cannot average 5-6k per game at least. They win, its indoors, fun and they don't take very long to end usually.

[Green P1]

OH MY GOD.

Its like he's trying as hard as he can just to get to 17 pages. He even threw in 2 pages of WORTHLESS graphs to get there. I only pray that this book report landed promptly in RV's trash-basket.

Double Spaced?????

Full Blown Retard?

Edited September 24, 2010 by Green P1

[NT80]

The report to me was much like this football season: high expectations yet underwhelmed by the results. I appreciate the independent, outsiders view but he didn't expose much we didn't already know. The presentation in written form was a ramble of history, quotes, many general findings, and a couple jr. high bar charts.

I was disappointed that Neinas felt NT should give up on marketing to DFW and wants Athletics to focus instead on marketing mainly to Denton and surrounding rural areas. That is directly opposite of what Dr. Rawlins said we needed to do when he spoke of athletics earlier this year. I would have liked to seen attendance at football and basketball games broken down by where fans are attending from, Denton county vs DFW, or by town of residence.

If nothing else, Neinas is a consultant for CUSA and we should have scored some points with him for that in the future.

[Rudy]

I think the people who did the branding let others know how to get overpaid for hardly doing anything on NT's behalf.

[gangrene]

There has been much confusion regarding how much Chuck Neinas' "services" cost. I know I was even having a hard time recalling that exact figure myself a few days ago. I'd seen the number "2" and anywhere from three to five zeroes after that two. I see our good friend "Check Facts" was the one who started the $250K rumor on a comment to Brett Vito's blog regarding the release of the report today.

However, Vito mentioned that Neinas was being paid "a couple grand" (as in $2,000.00) in his blog entry the other day.

What will Neinas say, UNT headed to Texas, et cetera

8:30 PM Wed, Sep 22, 2010

[EagleMBA]

And yet our Thursday games are nearly always better attended than Saturday.

Also I must say, on nights of double headers (which has been most, but not all, league games the last few seasons) the tip times for the Men's games are closer to 7:30CST because the Women's games don't end until nearly 7.

So....if you see it's a 7pm start time...but it's a night of a doubleheader...go anyways. You may not miss anything.

CMJ, I appreciate your comments. I always try to make the weekend games and really enjoy the doubleheaders. My routine is to try to get to the Pit 45 minutes before the tip to have something to eat in the Mean Green Room. I do not enjoy start-and-stop, white knuckle traffic for 15 miles of the trip; I leave straight from work and a normal 40 minute trip for me takes 75 minutes. A high-stress workday followed by a high-stress drive leaves me unable to enjoy the game. I can assure you that an extra 30 minutes makes a great deal of difference. I have no clue as to what happens on Thursday night, if that is the case. The bottom line is that promotion of basketball has got to be stepped up, we have a great product.

[Green Mean]

CMJ, I appreciate your comments. I always try to make the weekend games and really enjoy the doubleheaders. My routine is to try to get to the Pit 45 minutes before the tip to have something to eat in the Mean Green Room. I do not enjoy start-and-stop, white knuckle traffic for 15 miles of the trip; I leave straight from work and a normal 40 minute trip for me takes 75 minutes. A high-stress workday followed by a high-stress drive leaves me unable to enjoy the game. I can assure you that an extra 30 minutes makes a great deal of difference. I have no clue as to what happens on Thursday night, if that is the case. The bottom line is that promotion of basketball has got to be stepped up, we have a great product.

Agreed. Traffic sucks. With the tollway opening up it will take you to 380 and hang a left and it should probably be faster than taking 35 all the way. I haven't tried it yet but that is what I am thinking. I guess only downside is if you want to pay the expensive tolls...though you would only need to do it one way.

[VideoEagle]

OH MY GOD.

Its like he's trying as hard as he can just to get to 17 pages. He even threw in 2 pages of WORTHLESS graphs to get there. I only pray that this book report landed promptly in RV's trash-basket.

Double Spaced?????

Full Blown Retard?

No one does full blown retard.

[LoveMG]

surely there has to be an adult version of that report we didn't see?

[Side Show Joe]

At a time when our fan base is fragmented and angry, the athletic department passes on a chance to hit a homerun and energize the fan base. This public version of the report reveals nothing we don't already know. I would prefer no public report to this report.

[Green Mean]

But Chuck Neinas is THE expert on hiring college coaches. From what I've read, there is no better guy.

Just by seeing that ESPN piece...he found the right places for coaches that are in perfect situations. He also landed SDSU Chuck Long and Colorado's Dan Hawkins. I think we need to tap the breaks on his expertise in hiring coaches. The only thing he's good for is if he can persuade other conferences such as MWC and CUSA to give us a shot at next time of realignment.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The report to me was much like this football season: high expectations yet underwhelmed by the results. I appreciate the independent, outsiders view but he didn't expose much we didn't already know. The presentation in written form was a ramble of history, quotes, many general findings, and a couple jr. high bar charts.

I was disappointed that Neinas felt NT should give up on marketing to DFW and wants Athletics to focus instead on marketing mainly to Denton and surrounding rural areas. That is directly opposite of what Dr. Rawlins said we needed to do when he spoke of athletics earlier this year. I would have liked to seen attendance at football and basketball games broken down by where fans are attending from, Denton county vs DFW, or by town of residence.

If nothing else, Neinas is a consultant for CUSA and we should have scored some points with him for that in the future.

First, I wonder what UNT officials truly wanted Neinas to find out that they didn't already know? That is why I think there is more to this chapter than we civilians will really ever know.

Another UNT athletic consultant (Gene Stallings) told us to forget building a new stadium on our campus, too, so just what did we do? (Maybe we should invite Coach Gene to our new stadium Grand Opening and let him have some scissors at the ribbon-cutting?

I think Neinas sees the futility of SMU trying for the Dallas (University Park) market and maybe he thinks (like me) that Dallas is a complete wash-out for the Dallas Cowboys? Who knows, but we should expand our wings further out than he suggests.

I like our base:

Denton County..............approx. 600,000 pop.

City of Denton............... over 100,000 pop.

UNT Enr.............................36,000 plus

DFW NT Exes?...............Who the heck has ever known but years ago was said to be approx. 100,000 which would be tantamount to a very nice-sized city in any area of Texas.

Agreeing with NT80's closing sentence, I think Chuck Neinas was paid more to be our future (very important) friend and ally as he was to be consultant. His Report? Maybe one of the secretaries from Dunder Mifflin put the final copy and graph together? Of course, that would not be Pam I'm talking about here.

GMG!

[Green Mean]

First, I wonder what UNT officials truly wanted Neinas to find out that they didn't already know? That is why I think there is more to this chapter than we civilians will really ever know.

Another UNT athletic consultant (Gene Stallings) told us to forget building a new stadium on our campus, too, so just what did we do? (Maybe we should invite Coach Gene to our new stadium Grand Opening and let him have some scissors at the ribbon-cutting?

I think Neinas sees the futility of SMU trying for the Dallas (University Park) market and maybe he thinks (like me) that Dallas is a complete wash-out for the Dallas Cowboys? Who knows, but we should expand our wings further out than he suggests.

I like our base:

Denton County..............approx. 600,000 pop.

City of Denton............... over 100,000 pop.

UNT Enr.............................36,000 plus

DFW NT Exes?...............Who the heck has ever known but years ago was said to be approx. 100,000 which would be tantamount to a very nice-sized city in any area of Texas.

Agreeing with NT80's closing sentence, I think Chuck Neinas was paid more to be our future (very important) friend and ally as he was to be consultant. His Report? Maybe one of the secretaries from Dunder Mifflin put the final copy and graph together? Of course, that would not be Pam I'm talking about here.

GMG!

Whatever our fan base or potential fan base is...the bottom line comes to winning and marketing. The one thing I did like on the report was when he said that whenever we are marketing the university then include athletics in there. I know that's not a genius idea but you can separate them and still have them in the same ad/commercial.

SMU has the Dallas market but it is a niche market right now. Unless or until they become what TCU is then they will always be niche. Us on the other hand...if we start making some noise football and continue to progress in basketball then the possibilities are really endless.

[mad dog]

I really hate to do the thing, but I had a meeting this afternoon with a fairly highly placed person in the UNT power structure. It was this person's opinion that the sole reason for this report was to convince the board of regents to open up UNT's collective pocketbook for a certain high profile football coach. In essence, it is a kind of political token to be used as backup, justification, or due dilligence should the BOR go in that direction. Now I have no idea how accurate this is; it could all be an opinion. So just take it with a fairly generous helping of salt.

Now, whether this report is intended to drum up support for a big name coach or as an "in" to CUSA, the fact remains that this report is more important for political capital than any sort of true technical evaluation. It honestly doesn't matter that we've been saying the exact same things on the board for the past five years. It is not nearly so much about the CONTENT of the letter as it is about WHO is making the observations. It isn't what we want to hear, but the truth of the matter is that Chuck Neinas' voice carries political and professional weight, and ours do not.

That's just the way politics go.

[GrayEagle]

I don't know if his response was factual or opinion but I heartily agree that it's more about who said it than what was actually said.

There were some points that seeped through a rather ordinary report. This coaching staff must produce or be gone. Don't waste money trying to advertise heavily in Dallas or Fort Worth. Start in Denton and Denton County and expand outwards. Win, especially in football. Increase basketball attendance. Begin a baseball program ASAP. Our very large number of alumni is a plus and most of them are under 50. The new stadium can be a magnificent tool to link the university and the community. Start building tradition now. Dominate the Sun Belt Conference. Did I mention win?

[FirefightnRick]

We didn't need Chuck to tell us about a lack of school pride did we? After years of begging, pleading, brainstorming, funding for the idea, then teaching it and talking to those in charge endlessly, and yet we still can't get a unified chant with a start and a finish, so that when we do show up in decent numbers in places like New Orleans or Oklahoma City etc.. we at least would have a way to show unity and pride rather than sitting around waiting for the opposing school to show us theirs. It's a lack of Common Sense!

I especially like the part in the report about how other schools found value in focusing on building pride and using the game day experience in getting alumni back on campus, and later the mentioning of the use of billboards. We currently have two billboards in Fort Worth that I have seen, one in fact overlooks downtown. And you want to see a lack of freaking pride and the exact opposite of what the other schools must value? Then I suggest everyone go take a look at them. They project nothing prideful at all. We spent how many hundreds of thousands of dollars back in '03 to start a new branding campaign and not one of these billboards utilize the athletic part of the branding that projects school pride. A lack of Common Sense. TCU had a billboard in the exact same downtown location earlier in the year promoting their music school and still managed to get part of their athletic logo on it also. Common Sense.

It's a matter of common sense to me. And of all the areas we lack in, this to me is the biggest.

Common sense!

Rick

Edited September 24, 2010 by FirefightnRick

[NCMeanGreen]

Wow that was really bad. My hope is that we chose Neinas in a political move to improve our chances of a CUSA invite. Otherwise what a complete and total waste of money. I am not prone to hyperbole but I could have compiled that in three hours for the price of two cups of coffee.

I would have given you a 3rd cup of coffee AND a bagel for that report. But that is all.

[NCMeanGreen]

"As one person observed"..."Or recognize who you are and be the best"...

I KNEW IT...Chuck Neinas did not write this report...it was Confucius!!!

[SilverEagle]

I don't know if his response was factual or opinion but I heartily agree that it's more about who said it than what was actually said.

There were some points that seeped through a rather ordinary report. This coaching staff must produce or be gone. Don't waste money trying to advertise heavily in Dallas or Fort Worth. Start in Denton and Denton County and expand outwards. Win, especially in football. Increase basketball attendance. Begin a baseball program ASAP. Our very large number of alumni is a plus and most of them are under 50. The new stadium can be a magnificent tool to link the university and the community. Start building tradition now. Dominate the Sun Belt Conference. Did I mention win?

It's always interesting when things come full circle.

Studies have been done for decades about why big school systems are having problems. A study is commissioned and the report says "big school systems bad, small schools systems good". Yet they keep building BIG school systems and essentially ignore the report.

One of the first things that Hayden Fry did when he arrived at NT was to get out in the LOCAL COMMUNITY and attempt to build support. One spring (his first year or so at NT) he put together a caravan that went to various small towns in the Denton area. They would stop at the town squares and have an impromptu pep rally and then go about distributing schedules and applications for season tickets to the various business owners. This was very well received by the various small towns.

It just goes round and round, but for some reason people just don't want to listen.

[PlummMeanGreen]

We didn't need Chuck to tell us about a lack of school pride did we? After years of begging, pleading, brainstorming, funding for the idea, then teaching it and talking to those in charge endlessly, and yet we still can't get a unified chant with a start and a finish, so that when we do show up in decent numbers in places like New Orleans or Oklahoma City etc.. we at least would have a way to show unity and pride rather than sitting around waiting for the opposing school to show us theirs. It's a lack of Common Sense!

I especially like the part in the report about how other schools found value in focusing on building pride and using the game day experience in getting alumni back on campus, and later the mentioning of the use of billboards. We currently have two billboards in Fort Worth that I have seen, one in fact overlooks downtown. And you want to see a lack of freaking pride and the exact opposite of what the other schools must value? Then I suggest everyone go take a look at them. They project nothing prideful at all. We spent how many hundreds of thousands of dollars back in '03 to start a new branding campaign and not one of these billboards utilize the athletic part of the branding that projects school pride. A lack of Common Sense. TCU had a billboard in the exact same downtown location earlier in the year promoting their music school and still managed to get part of their athletic logo on it also. Common Sense.

It's a matter of common sense to me. And of all the areas we lack in, this to me is the biggest.

Common sense!

Rick

FFR, one of those 2 billboards you've seen I presume is on Fort Worth's NW Loop 820 promoting UNT's Aviation whatever degree--the only such degree of its kind. The color of green is darker than on our unis', maybe it looks more like Marshall U's but there is no SOW which would not have take much effort. The ones who put that billboard design together probably don't know whether we are Eagles or Mean Green.

I think whatever more potential controversial things Neinas may have put on his public report was probably confided privately with our interim Prez and AD Rick V. I think all 3 know what they are doing. Neinas is someone UNT needs to consult with as regularly as we can to keep that tie-in.

And GrayEagle posted this of which most of us would agree:

I don't know if his response was factual or opinion but I heartily agree that it's more about who said it than what was actually said.

There were some points that seeped through a rather ordinary report. This coaching staff must produce or be gone. Don't waste money trying to advertise heavily in Dallas or Fort Worth. Start in Denton and Denton County and expand outwards. Win, especially in football. Increase basketball attendance. Begin a baseball program ASAP. Our very large number of alumni is a plus and most of them are under 50. The new stadium can be a magnificent tool to link the university and the community. Start building tradition now. Dominate the Sun Belt Conference. Did I mention win? GrayEagle

The UNT Academic Community Game Day Advantage: If anyone doesn't agree that each college or department within the UNT academic community will not benefit from bringing their own potential donors to sit in our New Stadium @ Mean Green Village luxury seats to get duly impressed as they look over I-35E and onto our campus, please raise your hand (no plural here).

GMG!

Edited September 24, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[Army of Dad]

CMJ, I appreciate your comments. I always try to make the weekend games and really enjoy the doubleheaders. My routine is to try to get to the Pit 45 minutes before the tip to have something to eat in the Mean Green Room. I do not enjoy start-and-stop, white knuckle traffic for 15 miles of the trip; I leave straight from work and a normal 40 minute trip for me takes 75 minutes. A high-stress workday followed by a high-stress drive leaves me unable to enjoy the game. I can assure you that an extra 30 minutes makes a great deal of difference. I have no clue as to what happens on Thursday night, if that is the case. The bottom line is that promotion of basketball has got to be stepped up, we have a great product.

I do the trek up 35 just about every workday, it isn't that bad most days. The Tollway can really suck if you are coming up all the way from downtown, so that might not be much of an option even before you factor in all the extra stoplights that have been added on 380 (be careful with them too as the county has installed red light cameras on several of them).