Warming Up To The Wac?

[RabidRunner]

I see what you're saying, yes Boise built brand recognition for the Wac. But Boise is no longer going to be in the WAC. "A non AQ conference" did not produce multiple BCS at large teams. Boise did. Boise is no longer going to be in that non AQ conference. The average person may view the WAC as better for a while but it won't last. It can't. There aren't any good teams left in the conference! And they'll possibly have a quarter of the conference made up of 1AA teams how long will the "average fan" really view it as better?

If the Big 12 commissioner lost his mind and kicked all of the current Big 12 teams out and replaced them with teams from the Lonestar conference, how long would the Big 12 be considered a good conference?

It's still the Big 12 in name but none of the teams in it are any good.

Dont forget Hawaii in the 08 Sugar Bowl, although one could argue their performance in that bowl erased any positives

Colony, I completely understand your argument. I also appreciate that already being in an FBS conference gives one a different view of things.

One thing I havent heard any of you really mention....travel for the olympic sports, is that not as big of deal as I suspected?

[RabidRunner]

Yes, the WAC with more Texas schools would be more interesting but it has to be the right Texas schools. Those are FBS schools, not FCS move ups. We were playing at the University level in the NCAA before they called it Division 1 or 1A.

As for travel, for everything other than football, it is much cheaper and easier to get to Miami in Florida than than USU or Idaho. Last time I looked it took not one but two plane changes to get from Dallas to Moscow or Logan. And for charters, I'm told the Moscow airport requites planes to take off and fly to Boise to get a full load of fuel before continuing although this might have changed since the Big West days. Nothing compares to the price of getting a team to Hawaii but I think Hawaii helps subsidize those trips.

As for perception, it is not unusual for WAC games to not even be listing in the Dallas Morning News on Sunday morning and the Cowboys push out all college coverage on Monday. By Tuesday, the news is so old it isn't printed. TV gives the WAC even less coverage. That is a big reason TCU, SMU, Rice and Tulsa all left the WAC when they did. The WAC-lite will get even less coverage as the sports writers and editors locally were most impressed with Boise, then Fresno, Nevada and Hawaii.

Yes, the WAC will always have a spot on ESPN. But we are in the Central Time Zone and few stay up to watch games that start at 9pm or later after watching games all day. Gaining more fans and viewers for UNT who live in California really doesn't do us any good here in North Texas. If we were the University of Northern New Mexico joining the WAC would have been a no brainer. But we are the University of North Texas.

fair points. FWIW, I dont know too many people that rely on the newspaper for their sports info, but I understand your point. I know competing with Cowboy's coverage is nearly impossible, turn on a tv in San Antonio, you would start to think they were the SA Cowboys. Its an issue UTSA will have to deal with as well. My question to you though, are you getting decent coverage now as a belt member, and would it really be that much worse in the WAC? Keep in mind coverage for your program isnt limited to your local market. New instate rivalries could bring you statewide coverage that you currently dont recieve. Ask TxSt how much pub they are getting in SA as of late, it has increased tenfold by us simply being mentioned together all the time. That same effect would be translated to UNT to some degree if the 3 schools became conference mates. Opens up new avenues to reach out to your alumni in other areas of the state, and opens doors to more recruits who may not have considered UNT before.

Similar argument with tv coverage. Just because its late for the central time zone doesnt mean people arent watching. Those late night games still get hundreds of thousands of viewers. I know if I happen to be at home on a Sat evening that there is going to be a football game on ESPN late at night. I also know to check the listings on Thur and Fri nights as well to see if ESPN has picked up a game. It may be late, but there is no competition for eyeballs at that hour, if a person wants to watch football thats the only option. People across the country see those games and become familiar with your program, can you honestly say that type of coverage is or will be available to you in the Belt?

Edited September 21, 2010 by RabidRunner

[TheTastyGreek]

fair points. FWIW, I dont know too many people that rely on the newspaper for their sports info, but I understand your point. I know competing with Cowboy's coverage is nearly impossible, turn on a tv in San Antonio, you would start to think they were the SA Cowboys. Its an issue UTSA will have to deal with as well. My question to you though, are you getting decent coverage now as a belt member, and would it really be that much worse in the WAC? Keep in mind coverage for your program isnt limited to your local market. New instate rivalries could bring you statewide coverage that you currently dont recieve. Ask TxSt how much pub they are getting in SA as of late, it has increased tenfold by us simply being mentioned together all the time. That same effect would be translated to UNT to some degree if the 3 schools became conference mates. Opens up new avenues to reach out to your alumni in other areas of the state, and opens doors to more recruits who may not have considered UNT before.

Similar argument with tv coverage. Just because its late for the central time zone doesnt mean people arent watching. Those late night games still get hundreds of thousands of viewers. I know if I happen to be at home on a Sat evening that there is going to be a football game on ESPN late at night. I also know to check the listings on Thur and Fri nights as well to see if ESPN has picked up a game. People across the country see those games and become familiar with your program, can you honestly sat that type of coverage is or will be available to you in the Belt?

I don't want to be a jerk, but are you here asking or selling?

If you're asking, I think the answer came out pretty clearly and nearly unanimously.

If you're selling, I don't think anyone is interested in the pitch.

[All About UNT]

Does anyone know how long ESPN is contractually bound to show the WAC games? Would it not make sense for them to show more MWC and/or PAC10 games in order to replace an inevitable diminishing interest in WAC games?

[Primo]

Not here to troll/flame, serious ?'s

Is your school warming up to the idea of the WAC, specifically a WAC east division composed of:

LaTech

NMSt

UNT

UTSA

TxSt

Denver (olympic sports only)

Any other schools out there that would make you feel differently, say a Montana for instance?

Rumored that up to 10 schools may be present in Dallas for presentations to the WAC committe on Sept 27/28....any inkling that UNT might be present, even if just to hear the other school's out?

I know the general line of thinking for UNT: west coast conference is a bad fit for central time zone schools, Belt is stronger than the WAC 6 at this point, holding out for CUSA bid, travel for olympic sports...etc..

If you knew for a fact that UNT was NOT the first choice for CUSA expansion do you feel your administration would more strongly consider the WAC?

Does your team's performance over the past couple years, as well as the impending firing of your coach play into UNT's thought process at this point? Do you think you would be able to land a better qualified coach as a WAC member vs. the Belt? Would it be easier to rebuild under a new coach in a different conference with a fresh start, alongside 2 other TX schools that will be experiencing significant growing pains as well leveling the playing field for everyone?

Interested to hear your thoughts.

No thanks, but how about The Roadrunners in the Sunbelt. I wouldn't mind hanging out at the Friendly Spot before a game...

[TIgreen01]

Similar argument with tv coverage. Just because its late for the central time zone doesnt mean people arent watching. Those late night games still get hundreds of thousands of viewers. I know if I happen to be at home on a Sat evening that there is going to be a football game on ESPN late at night. I also know to check the listings on Thur and Fri nights as well to see if ESPN has picked up a game. It may be late, but there is no competition for eyeballs at that hour, if a person wants to watch football thats the only option. People across the country see those games and become familiar with your program, can you honestly say that type of coverage is or will be available to you in the Belt?

Is this still really true? I know that I have had no trouble finding late night football games during the first 3 weeks of this season. I have no idea whether or not that changes once conference play starts, but Pac 10 games are starting to be shown more and more here in DFW at 9 or 9:30pm start times (Dallas time). I can't help but think that the PAC 10 and MWC aren't going to at least try for some of that free publicity that you're talking about. It used to be that CUSA, Sun Belt, MAC, etc could get pretty decent slots on ESPN Thursday nights....now you're seeing the SEC on Thursday, and even Big East and others on Friday.

I'm just not sure that the weird time slots really are as open as you think they are....

[TodgeRodge]

Do you honestly think that this would make any sort of difference to any coach (qualified or not) regarding his interest in being the head coach of North Texas?

I'm going to politely say...no thanks.

while the WAC is obviously struggling now.....this is not the first time the WAC has taken a hit and gotten back up from it

and how many coaches have moved up from the WAC for a better situation VS the number that have moved up from the Sunbelt

as for the original question UNT fans are never going to want to have anything to do with programs they see as "lesser" than them they are too busy trying to tear down programs they see as only being "perceived" as better than them in a feigned attempt to get into a conference with those programs......of course never understanding how or why those teams and conferences view UNT the same way that UNT views TxState and UTSA

my advice is do like the WAC and everyone else with some success has done and forget about UNT, forget about crying what conference or programs you are associated with, and build your program and take what that gives you and build more.....stop worrying what some other school or program or conference thinks of your program and just go and outperform them

because UNT and UNT fans are an excellent example of what you get when you run around concerning yourself with who has "banned or boycotted" you from the conference you "deserve" to be in

VideoEagle is a perfect example.....talking about all the years in "university level" and pretending that means anything when you were one of the programs that decided to DROP DOWN for a number of years, still did not do much of significance at the D1-AA level and then moved up and pretended that you had arrived when the reality is you had not done much before the drop down (if you had you would have not dropped down) and you have not done much since the move up

the deal that everyone that has had little success forgets about a conference is that at the end of the season EVERY conference will have winners and losers no matter how weak or strong that conference is.....so winning even a weak conference over time catches the eyes of fans and TV and everyone else......this is one of the fallacies that could well kill upper division football if super conferences are ever formed.....because some formerly "super" team in that super conference is probably going to take the position of being the loser and over time one or several may take that position long term....that or fans will have to get used to 9-3 national champs

it is also the fallacy of what is so often advocated on this forum of some type of new SWC with mostly Texas teams.....because at the end of the day several of those teams will still sift out to be the losers over the long term....and when the target market of the entire conference market is so small you have small interest in your top programs and you have even smaller interest in the bottom feeders....and all that equals small interest in that conference overall

I will be the first to say that 120+ programs in D1-A is a joke, but thinking that shrinking it and THEN going with bigger conferences is even worse than what there is currently

if I was doing what I felt was best for every program in Texas to have success I would move UTEP back to the MWC and replace them with LaTech, assuming UTSA and TxState move up I would place them in the WAC and I would have the Big 12 play a schedule of round robin -1 so they still keep 4 OOC games and I would do it in a way where the weakest program in the Big 12 avoids the top program in conference and on down the list of top and bottom finish.....the idea being then Baylor or ISU instead of getting a sure smashing in conference can hopefully schedule a more winnable game and build fan support through wins instead of through "hey Texas filled OUR stadium yet again" and schools like Texas can have yet another choice of a very winnable game OR if needed a stronger team than Baylor usually is

then SMU, UH, and occasionally Rice could rotate trying to win CUSA, UTEP and TCU could rotate trying to win the MWC, UT and maybe TAMU and TTU could rotate trying to win the Big 12 (or rotate trying to get into a BCS game with only a single conference loss) and Baylor could try and schedule to win 4 OOC games or even 3 OOC games and then try and go .500 or better in conference and get into a bowl game to have something to end the season and UTSA and TxState could try and build momentum in their conference without competing in state with 6 other Texas teams and UNT can do what ever it is they do in the Belt

no one on earth outside of Texas and a hell of a lot of people in Texas are not going to tune in to see a conference match up of a 2-6 Texas school taking on a 4-4 Texas based conference mate......maybe not a lot more people, but I am positive more people might tune in to see a 3-1 Texas school take on another 3-1 non-Texas school especially if those two teams got those 3 wins over their non-Texas schools

it is one of the things I think has really hurt the PAC 10 over the last few years and made it hard for teams to get USC off the top.....you only have 3 games to build a rep for your conference before you head into conference play and every week half your teams are going to take a loss and drop in the polls......same thing with an all Texas or nearly all Texas conference....you have a couple of games before you get into a schedule of every week half the Texas teams are going to take a loss and people will look down on the whole thing....I would rather see Texas teams have the chance to take on others out of state and then fight it out right at thee end for all the marbles

UTSA and TxState need to team up, forget about other Texas programs for the time being, build your program winning against anyone you can, and then take it to conference and try and be at or near the top of that conference as often as possible

worrying what other Texas programs think of you or what they do in their conference, what facilities they have or don't have and how those compare to yours, and what the number of fans they have in the seats is nothing but a recipe for thinking you deserve something that other Texas programs are just flat not going to HAND you and nor should they

Edited September 21, 2010 by TodgeRodge

[GrayEagle]

Not even if Denver played football.

[Green P1]

I just don't care.

[stebo]

No offense, but The "Runners" have yet to play a down of football. If their basketball attendance is any indication of the fan support they will get, the whole gamble will be a disaster. San Antonio has not embraced the basketball program, why would they embrace the football team? Just curious as to how UTSA will get over the same stigma that has haunted it for year. We have a team that is moving directly to FBS in the Belt. South Alabama... They are doing it the right way, first year was 2009 and was against prep schools and a few non-scholly colleges. This year they are playing FCS teams and so far they are undefeated. They are averaging 23K a game and have a perfect record of 9-0 over two season. Next year will be transition year 1, the next year will be transition year #2, and they will be FBS by 2013. How will the Runners be able to play by 2014 (that is the year that I keep seeing) when they have yet to take a snap in any game? Is rushing into FBS something that you really want to do?

One thing that I have learned over the years is that no tradition is sometimes better than bad tradition. I envy schools like USF and even USA that launch their programs and see immediate success in the stands and on the field. But those schools really had a good plan in place. I just don't think that UTSA is going about this the right way.. they seem to have a goal to play FBS football at all costs, and they could destroy their future fan base in the process. If UTSA starts laying an egg right off the bat, they will lose the city immediately. The UTSA students have shown that they will not support UTSA sports already so those locals are instrumental for success. I really wish that Coker would tap the breaks and do this right - for the sake of the fans and the future of the program. You guys are gonna get destroyed out there and lose the momentum that you have worked so hard to build up. Playing in the new WAC will be a lot like NT playing back in the Big West. There are no members left that can build a program to the level of a Fresno, a Nevada, or a Boise. MAYBE Hawaii can - but they have limitations due to geography. North Texas knows Idaho U very well, they play in an airplane hangar in Moscow and it seats 18K. There will never be big time football there. Next up you have USU - they also suffer from years of apathy and a terrible location. It is very difficult to get there, trust me - I have gone! Next up, NMSU - they are a nice program but they will never be big time and they know it. They could not win in the Belt and the "advantage" of the WAC has actually hurt them. Their attendance has gone down and they have gone through a few coaches. La Tech will bolt at the first chance, they would even take a MAC invite over the new WAC. San Jose is pathetic. Hawaii is Hawaii. Then you have you guys and TSU@SM. Texas State had 12K people last week for their home game against Cal Poly. I think that they could expect similar attendance against Idaho, SJSU, NMSU, USU, and the likes. There is just not a lot of value there and you are trying to make it work because you guys want to be FBS so damn bad.

I am sure that you think that this is your only shot so it is time to take advantage of that - but you might destroy your program's future in the process. Being in the Big West nearly bankrupt North Texas and we were VERY close to dropping football completely before the Belt saved us. The Belt is not the best - we all recognize that. Heck, the Belt is pretty damn crappy. Bu I guarantee you this - the Belt will be more respected than the future WAC. I would bet any amount of money on it. The schools that will make up the WAC all have serious baggage and do not have the potential that Fresno, Boise, and Nevada did (which is why those three have left). I would think really hard before you wish for a WAC invite - it could cripple your program forever.

[Eagle1855]

I haven't any interest in leaving a league of semi-established upstarts and leftovers to start another league with other upstarts and leftovers and added travel expenses.

So no, we're not warming up to it. At Camp Eagle1855, we're colder than ever.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Eagle1855

[PlummMeanGreen]

RabidRunner, thanks for visiting our board and you just hang in there.

Many of us on this board have been exactly where you are now many moons ago and it ain't much fun when your all dressed to go out and paint the town red, but then no one invites you.

GMG!

[Green Otaku]

Longtime reader and first time poster here

I say UNT goes for the WAC. The opportunities it offers to move up to better things is whats most interesting. Lets look at the former members of the WAC and where they are now.

Arizona-Pac10

Arizona State-Pac10

BYU-MWC

New Mexico-MWC

Utah-Pac10

Wyoming-MWC

Colorado St.-MWC

UTEP-C-USA

SDSU-MWC

Air Force-MWC

Fresno st.-MWC

UNLV-MWC

TCU-MWC

Rice-C-USA

SMU-C-USA

Tulsa-C-USA

Nevada-MWC

Boise St.-MWC

This conference has a proven track record of moving schools to bigger better conferences. Every time the WAC seems on the verge of collapse they add teams who break through and give results. What has the Sunbelt done for us? We won 4 back to back championships and did that improve our recruiting? Our national perception? If the Sunbelt had been a great place to build up our program we would have seen the results with those 4 straight conference wins. Instead we drop back and are still fighting to get back.

What else has the Sunbelt created? Troy? MTSU? No team here is looking like they will be a BCS buster, lets face it the Sunbelt has not produced.

an east devision with

TxSt

LaTech

NMSU

UNT

UTSA

(one more)

would garner much more interest by the students than any of the schools we play now. No one on campus is interested about the schools we play. We have no rivalries in 10 years. No one cares about FAU or Troy.

No offense but the median poster here seems like a middle aged male. I think the younger alums would feel that this is a good move.

Sure I can see that there is a potential for risk here, but there is also potential for reward. I would rather give it a shot and see if we can land a big reward instead of sitting pretty where we are and hope something happens. If C-USA doesn't come calling in the summer I say give the invite a serious consideration. The WAC can be a great place to transition to a better place, or we can remain in the Sunbelt which has no track record of its teams moving up.

[All About UNT]

Longtime reader and first time poster here

I say UNT goes for the WAC. The opportunities it offers to move up to better things is whats most interesting. Lets look at the former members of the WAC and where they are now.

Arizona-Pac10

Arizona State-Pac10

BYU-MWC

New Mexico-MWC

Utah-Pac10

Wyoming-MWC

Colorado St.-MWC

UTEP-C-USA

SDSU-MWC

Air Force-MWC

Fresno st.-MWC

UNLV-MWC

TCU-MWC

Rice-C-USA

SMU-C-USA

Tulsa-C-USA

Nevada-MWC

Boise St.-MWC

This conference has a proven track record of moving schools to bigger better conferences. Every time the WAC seems on the verge of collapse they add teams who break through and give results. What has the Sunbelt done for us? We won 4 back to back championships and did that improve our recruiting? Our national perception? If the Sunbelt had been a great place to build up our program we would have seen the results with those 4 straight conference wins. Instead we drop back and are still fighting to get back.

What else has the Sunbelt created? Troy? MTSU? No team here is looking like they will be a BCS buster, lets face it the Sunbelt has not produced.

an east devision with

TxSt

LaTech

NMSU

UNT

UTSA

(one more)

would garner much more interest by the students than any of the schools we play now. No one on campus is interested about the schools we play. We have no rivalries in 10 years. No one cares about FAU or Troy.

No offense but the median poster here seems like a middle aged male. I think the younger alums would feel that this is a good move.

Sure I can see that there is a potential for risk here, but there is also potential for reward. I would rather give it a shot and see if we can land a big reward instead of sitting pretty where we are and hope something happens. If C-USA doesn't come calling in the summer I say give the invite a serious consideration. The WAC can be a great place to transition to a better place, or we can remain in the Sunbelt which has no track record of its teams moving up.

and while I would disagree...welcome to the board!

[PlummMeanGreen]

Longtime reader and first time poster here

What has the Sunbelt done for us? We won 4 back to back championships and did that improve our recruiting? Our national perception? If the Sunbelt had been a great place to build up our program we would have seen the results with those 4 straight conference wins. Instead we drop back and are still fighting to get back.

What else has the Sunbelt created? Troy? MTSU? No team here is looking like they will be a BCS buster, lets face it the Sunbelt has not produced.

Welcome as a poster to GoMeanGreen.com, Green Otaku. What took you so long to post? (Is your name Hawaian or Polynesian if that is your last name)?

I tend to agree with you about the Sun Belt. My concern is when it someday possibly loses 2 or 3 schools and North Texas is not one of them then what the hell do we have then? How about over 10 years of what will have turned out to be a loyal suitor to a bad marriage?

I think our only hope for CUSA is if SMU's entire campus disappears in one helluva' Texas-sized sink hole. God let me be there to see that!

GMG!

Edited September 22, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[Green Otaku]

and while I would disagree...welcome to the board!

Thank you for the welcome

[Cerebus]

Green Otaku: Welcome on board, but I for one say no to your WAC dreams and no to your creepy tentacle manga.

[shaft]

Why not just bring LA Tech and UTSA to the Belt.

What does playing San Jose State and Idaho do for a central time zone school.

And what has Texas State ever done?

[Green Otaku]

Welcome as a poster to GoMeanGreen.com, Green Otaku. What took you so long to post? (Are you from Hawaii)?

I tend to agree with you about the Sun Belt. My concern is when it someday possibly loses 2 or 3 schools and North Texas is not one of them then what the hell do we have then? How about over 10 years of what will have turned out to be a loyal suitor to a bad marriage?

I think our only hope for CUSA is if SMU's entire campus disappears in one helluva' Texas-sized sink hole. God let me be there to see that!

GMG!

Thank you as well for the welcome!

haha, I just really use this board to get the most recent information. This topic though is something I feel strongly about and wanted to give a response and different view.

I agree with you, also if UNT leaves the Belt, especially with our record what does that say about that conference? It will be a real knock on its national perception. People say the Sunbelt is more stable, the reason is no one wants the teams from there, and the reason the WAC seems unstable is conferences cherry pick their top teams. I just don't see how we couldn't at least go out on a limb and give it a shot. New stadium, new athletic fee, new conference and if we can run the table there history shows good things will come. If worse comes to worse we can return to the Belt and say we tried for that golden opportunity.

[MeanMag]

fair points. FWIW, I dont know too many people that rely on the newspaper for their sports info, but I understand your point. I know competing with Cowboy's coverage is nearly impossible, turn on a tv in San Antonio, you would start to think they were the SA Cowboys. Its an issue UTSA will have to deal with as well. My question to you though, are you getting decent coverage now as a belt member, and would it really be that much worse in the WAC? Keep in mind coverage for your program isnt limited to your local market. New instate rivalries could bring you statewide coverage that you currently dont recieve. Ask TxSt how much pub they are getting in SA as of late, it has increased tenfold by us simply being mentioned together all the time. That same effect would be translated to UNT to some degree if the 3 schools became conference mates. Opens up new avenues to reach out to your alumni in other areas of the state, and opens doors to more recruits who may not have considered UNT before.

Similar argument with tv coverage. Just because its late for the central time zone doesnt mean people arent watching. Those late night games still get hundreds of thousands of viewers. I know if I happen to be at home on a Sat evening that there is going to be a football game on ESPN late at night. I also know to check the listings on Thur and Fri nights as well to see if ESPN has picked up a game. It may be late, but there is no competition for eyeballs at that hour, if a person wants to watch football thats the only option. People across the country see those games and become familiar with your program, can you honestly say that type of coverage is or will be available to you in the Belt?

I'd like to ask you a question in return. If the SunBelt and WAC were to extend an invite to SA and/or San Marcus, which would you choose? Does UNT already being in the Sun Belt make it more attractive? Does Troy being in the Sun Belt mean anything? does the better basketball of the Sun Belt make it more attractive with Western Kentucky? Does sharing the same footprint as the SEC to get their fallout make a difference? Does having a growing presence in Florida mean anything?

[Green Otaku]

Green Otaku: Welcome on board, but I for one say no to your WAC dreams and no to your creepy tentacle manga.

Thank you! I was hoping to keep that a secret...

[VideoEagle]

I just saw over on the Sun Belt board that the WAC appears to be talking to UTSA, Texas State, Lamar and even Sam Houston. That's just not where I think NT should be going.

Click here to read about the BigSkyWACland.

[retroeppy]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/452633-a-realignment-nightmare-will-unt-be-stuck-in-the-sun-belt-forever

interesting..

[TodgeRodge]

This conference has a proven track record of moving schools to bigger better conferences. Every time the WAC seems on the verge of collapse they add teams who break through and give results. What has the Sunbelt done for us? We won 4 back to back championships and did that improve our recruiting? Our national perception? If the Sunbelt had been a great place to build up our program we would have seen the results with those 4 straight conference wins. Instead we drop back and are still fighting to get back.

What else has the Sunbelt created? Troy? MTSU? No team here is looking like they will be a BCS buster, lets face it the Sunbelt has not produced.

while I gagree with some of your points especially about teams moving up...

UNT has already turned down the WAC several times, their fans seem not interested, they did not do much when they were going west before and they seem to have developed a few rivalries in the belt so I don't see UNT going to the WAC

as for the 4 straight conference championships.....it was probably as much lack of action by UNT to capitalize on that and bad timing

it happened when the Sunbelt was new and many attributed their ability to win those 4 straight to that

UNT sat on their hands on facilities and building fan support and really turned down the opportunity to improve facilities

and conferences were mostly stable during that time period with the exception of a few teams changing spots like UTEP and the lack of action on facilities and fan support by UNT specifically played into their lack of consideration to be the one to make that move

TCU loves being the only team in the MWC, CUSA and every other conference out there is content with 4 Texas schools and no more (in fact most would rather have 3 Texas schools and would flat boycott more than 4 Texas teams) and the WAC has lost some of the luster it had for the time being

so bad timing and lack of action to take advantage of those 4 years of lightening in a bottle have resulted in UNT being long term belt bound....along with the lack of realization about how unique that 4 years was in the history of UNT and the impatient and foolish thought that UNT could do even better with a merely a coaching change away from the guy that brought those unique 4 years especially with no real facilities improvements in the works at that time.....and here we are today...

[Aquila_Viridis]

UTSA's whole vision was based on salary projections that turned out to be WAY off. Coach salaries, and now assistant salaries, are going through the roof. You look where NT ranks in salary, we are playing at a predictable level. The extra two points to get past Rice are $125,000 per year. To avoid getting whooped by Army: $375,000 per year. WAC offers no value. We pay considerably more for coaches, we win and get into a real conference. Hoping for a value miracle got us in deep doodoo. Let's learn.

On a separate note, I'm disgusted that the UT system would consider tossing the citizens' money into a program that will not amount to more than UTEP. UNT on the other hand represents one of the nation's premier metropolitan and economic regions, in a way that SMU and TCU do not. Our state should be making wiser choices about the investment of state dollars, than even thinking about Division 1 football in San Antonio, so close to the flagship that is such a heavyweight of college athletics anyway. What a wasteful and meaningless diversion that would be.