Does The Coaches Deserve Another Year?

LoveMG · September 22, 2010

TD didn't

june jones did not and cut current players

CaribbeanGreen · September 22, 2010

Charles (or anyone), if we have to get a new HFC, doesn't North Texas usually honor those we've got commitments from from the previous coaching staff?

GMG!

Normally yes, lest you get a bad reputation, leave kids that committed to you out in the cold, and damage reputations with high school coaches. Todd Dodge, however, did not.

Rudy · September 22, 2010

Here is a different way of looking at it. IF, and this is purely hypothetical, IF Dodge and company were able to turn the ship around after all of these injuries, and win 6, does he come back? I think it would be a pretty big acompishment to overcome all of these injuries, and Im sure there will be more. Does TD get another year?

KingDL1 · September 22, 2010

Here is a different way of looking at it. IF, and this is purely hypothetical, IF Dodge and company were able to turn the ship around after all of these injuries, and win 6, does he come back? I think it would be a pretty big acompishment to overcome all of these injuries, and Im sure there will be more. Does TD get another year?

I have seen no reason to believe this is a possibility, so I guess we can worry about it if it happens. But to me SEVEN Games is still the magic number.

PlummMeanGreen · September 22, 2010

I have seen no reason to believe this is a possibility, so I guess we can worry about it if it happens. But to me SEVEN Games is still the magic number.

0 & 6 right this moment (due to multiple injuries) seems more probable. I hate this all is happening to the team, the coach and, yes, all of us.

GMG!

eulesseagle · September 22, 2010

YES

I don't believe there is a coach in the USA who has lost 10 players to injury (most starters) and has had a winning record. I have never seen this number of injuries......will welcome our posters to inform us on this topic.

QB Nathan Tune dislocated hip, Derek Thompson broken leg
Centers JJ Johnson, Nick Leppo
WR Greg Brown, Chris Bynes torn achiled tenden, Benny Jones
DB Steven Ford, DaWaylon Cook,
RB Michael Mosley

I wonder if our fans can raise the money to pay for Dodges contract next year after he is "fired" and at the same time where will the money come from to pay for some of the named high profile coaches posters are suggesting.

OldTimer

Got to agree with you OldTimer.....

1. Everyone seems to forget about this same thread the last two years of Coach Dickey. Enough said about Coach Dickey.

2. Coach Dodge began with a bunch of really really really bad players except for, maybe, a handful. In the decades that I have been watching NT football ..... the days when you went home and pulled splinters out of your backside because the wooden seat were somewhat delapidated, the reminants of Coach Dickey's team had to be one of the worst if not the worst overall bunch.

3. Grades.....enough said.

4. Racial striff....enough said.

5. Players quiting....for whatever reason it happens to all programs.

6. Starting freshmen QB's in two of the four years.

7. Having to move players around to fill holes from lack of depth.

8. Playing more freshmen and sophmore than just about any other D1 program for the first two years....see also #2.

9. Somehow Coach Dodge was able to get consistanly better players every year for some reason. hummmmm.

10. Became more competitive defensively....just look at the numbers.

11. Last year was a tear jerker loosing six games by a touchdown or less. Much better than his first two years.

12. Got Coach Canales this year plus his NFL volunteer buddy.

13. Tune....one start before this year. Looked good against Alabama, Clemson and Rice....INJURED...out for this year.

14. Thompson....back up.....INJURED for this season.

15. RDodge......injury prone and bad collar bone in throwing apendage...our new QB.

16. 10 STARTERS out for year....next highest....Utah State with five.

I have never ever seen an NT coach so snakebit in over forty years. Personally I believe that Coach Dodge has the players and coaches to win.....the players and especially the QB's must stay healthy.

I would give Coach Dodge his FIFTH YEAR considering the circumstances and if he did well next year EXTEND his contract.

UNT90 · September 22, 2010

2. Coach Dodge began with a bunch of really really really bad players except for, maybe, a handful. In the decades that I have been watching NT football ..... the days when you went home and pulled splinters out of your backside because the wooden seat were somewhat delapidated, the reminants of Coach Dickey's team had to be one of the worst if not the worst overall bunch.

So much misinformation in this post, but lets just stick with the above.

The defense in 07 returned 9 starters from a defense that was ranked in the high 80s the year before. Dodge promptly turned that into the worst defense in FBS football.

No mention about the dismal special teams play for 4 STRAIGHT YEARS.

So tired of people who accept losing.

UNT Mean Green · September 22, 2010

june jones did not and cut current players

we had better step up and get a bona fide coach like SMU did to turn this thing around quickly. I don't think it's far away from turning the corner, but I really don't think Dodge knows how to get his players to win and in turn the players do not know how to win. If we can get someone in the head coaches seat to accomplish that and the wins start coming then all will be better, but we don't have that type of leadership.

perryfrog · September 22, 2010

Dodge didn't deserve this year.
5-34 and 3 of those wins were fcs transitionee Western Kentucky.

You guys are the most patient fans I have ever seen. Except for the

Horned Frog fans in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. :unsure:

GO FROGS!!!!

GO MEAN GREEN!!!!

PlummMeanGreen · September 22, 2010

You guys are the most patient fans I have ever seen. Except for the
Horned Frog fans in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

GO FROGS!!!!
GO MEAN GREEN!!!!

Hello, perryfrog!

I was in Fort Worth the day the SWC disintegrated and I knew how many of your elect thought it was the end of the world as you all had known it, but yall have proved everyone wrong and have become a role model for many of us in many ways.

We will finally be able to get out of the starting blocks toward bigger and better things starting next Fall and I mean things we were "NEVER" going to be able to do as long as we were tenants of Fouts Field.

Congrats on your season!

Question: If we have to hire a new HFC, what would be your sincere sentiments toward UNT talking to Coach Fran? Just curious and I probably would know your answer already.

FirefightnRick · September 22, 2010

The point I was trying to make is that we're in this so deep now, that giving it one more year may be worth the gamble (at least until I see real hope of bringing in someone better).

Then of course, for those who have NOTHING invested don't face much of a gamble in the first place, now do they?

Rick

Edited September 22, 2010 by FirefightnRick

Green Mean · September 22, 2010

Here is a different way of looking at it. IF, and this is purely hypothetical, IF Dodge and company were able to turn the ship around after all of these injuries, and win 6, does he come back? I think it would be a pretty big acompishment to overcome all of these injuries, and Im sure there will be more. Does TD get another year?

IF that happened then I still think you have to evaluate if TD is the right guy going forward. If you ask me I would say I still get somebody new because you have to look at the whole body of work and think realistic. I think it's hard to make a decision based on a 9 game stretch versus the 39 games prior of being a laughing stock. Of course I don't even think this hypthothetical is a possibility but it is a huge IF.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 22, 2010

If TDodge doesn't get "seven"--he goes back to Texas HS heaven.

Look...he ain't going back to high school. The guy has something in the bag. But, there have been many coaches who were great position coaches or coordinators who couldn't run the whole show.

Running the whole show at this level is a completely different ball of wax. Dodge just can't do it. It sucks for us that our school had to be the proving ground, but I can't think of a regional school that wouldn't hire him.

In fact, I'll go ahead and predict that if Dodge is fired, he'll have a job as someone's QB coach, WR coach, or offensive coordinator/co-coordinator/pass game coordinator at a BCS school.

There's no shame in not being able to do the whole thing. As shown in several threads after the Army loss, there a dozens of former head coaches now assisting at FBS schools or in the NFL.

Listen, being the boss is hard. At this level, it's completely different. Like, different planet different.

Think about it: the guy walked away from a high school where the parents policed their kids and they were respectful. College football is different. There are so many different backgrounds and experiences in a locker room. You've got to earn the trust of those guys. They don't go for top down-type of authority.

Anyone catch the comments of Bob Stoops or Mack Brown recently. Neither are thrilled with some of their schools' recently performances (yes, I know we'd trade for them...but, their level is different). Both have hammered home the fact that they've got kids on their roster who aren't working hard enough and aren't listening...and it shows up on the field. For what is expected of those squads, they've struggled against teams they'd normally blow out early.

Keeping the trust and attention of a college locker room is very difficult. Dodge just couldn't do it. It's not that the players don't like him. It's just that, after being sent into battle so many times with a losing plan, carrying it out becomes burdensome.

At some point, guys just think to themselves, 'Screw it. I ain't putting it all on the line anymore. There'll be someone new next year anyway.'

VideoEagle · September 22, 2010

Look...he ain't going back to high school. The guy has something in the bag. But, there have been many coaches who were great position coaches or coordinators who couldn't run the whole show.

Running the whole show at this level is a completely different ball of wax. Dodge just can't do it. It sucks for us that our school had to be the proving ground, but I can't think of a regional school that wouldn't hire him.

In fact, I'll go ahead and predict that if Dodge is fired, he'll have a job as someone's QB coach, WR coach, or offensive coordinator/co-coordinator/pass game coordinator at a BCS school.

There's no shame in not being able to do the whole thing. As shown in several threads after the Army loss, there a dozens of former head coaches now assisting at FBS schools or in the NFL.

Listen, being the boss is hard. At this level, it's completely different. Like, different planet different.

Think about it: the guy walked away from a high school where the parents policed their kids and they were respectful. College football is different. There are so many different backgrounds and experiences in a locker room. You've got to earn the trust of those guys. They don't go for top down-type of authority.

Anyone catch the comments of Bob Stoops or Mack Brown recently. Neither are thrilled with some of their schools' recently performances (yes, I know we'd trade for them...but, their level is different). Both have hammered home the fact that they've got kids on their roster who aren't working hard enough and aren't listening...and it shows up on the field. For what is expected of those squads, they've struggled against teams they'd normally blow out early.

Keeping the trust and attention of a college locker room is very difficult. Dodge just couldn't do it. It's not that the players don't like him. It's just that, after being sent into battle so many times with a losing plan, carrying it out becomes burdensome.

At some point, guys just think to themselves, 'Screw it. I ain't putting it all on the line anymore. There'll be someone new next year anyway.'

Very well put.

I personally would give Dodge through the seventh game if he is winless and till the end of the season if he gets a win before game six. If he wins two before game seven he should get till the end of the season. If he manages to win seven - don't see it happening but long shots do come in - he stays. He wins five or less he's gone. With six it would be a tough decision, but probably not going to keep him. I would be shocked if RV had not at least put some feelers are to gauge interest.

perryfrog · September 22, 2010

Hello, perryfrog!

I was in Fort Worth the day the SWC disintegrated and I knew how many of your elect thought it was the end of the world as you all had known it, but yall have proved everyone wrong and have become a role model for many of us in many ways.

We will finally be able to get out of the starting blocks toward bigger and better things starting next Fall and I mean things we were "NEVER" going to be able to do as long as we were tenants of Fouts Field.

Congrats on your season!

Question: If we have to hire a new HFC, what would be your sincere sentiments toward UNT talking to Coach Fran? Just curious and I probably would know your answer already.

Hi Plumm;

I hate to say this, but I think Coach Fran is a good offense minded coach. If

he would hire a really good defensive co-ordinator, he would do a good job.

You just can't believe a thing he says. He's a real con man.

Did you see the article in the Star-Telegram about his son? I think I would

give the son a chance before I hired Fran. I sincerely hope ya'll get your

problems taken care of, as you are my second favorite team. Hang in there.

GO FROGS!!!!

GO MEAN GREEN!!!!

Green Mean · September 22, 2010

You just can't believe a thing he says. He's a real con man.
GO FROGS!!!!
GO MEAN GREEN!!!!

There may be a few exceptions like the guy in Fort Worth but that is just the reality of just about every head coach out there not coaching the super uber powerhouse programs.

PlummMeanGreen · September 23, 2010

Hi Plumm;

I hate to say this, but I think Coach Fran is a good offense minded coach. If
he would hire a really good defensive co-ordinator, he would do a good job.
You just can't believe a thing he says. He's a real con man.
Did you see the article in the Star-Telegram about his son? I think I would
give the son a chance before I hired Fran. I sincerely hope ya'll get your
problems taken care of, as you are my second favorite team. Hang in there.

GO FROGS!!!!
GO MEAN GREEN!!!!

OK, perryfrog, we will take you at "your" word! :lol:

I don't know why Coach Fran 1 took the directions he took--who knows (except maybe--The Shadow)? :ph34r:

Yes, I have that article here with me at Weatherford Starbucks as I post.

Go Frogs!

GMG!

Edited September 23, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

Rudy · September 23, 2010

Look...he ain't going back to high school. The guy has something in the bag. But, there have been many coaches who were great position coaches or coordinators who couldn't run the whole show.

Yeah. Dodge will get a shot as an OC or QB coach elsewhere, and will probably be successful. Unfortunately, we are paying for his learning curve.

NT80 · September 23, 2010

Yeah. Dodge will get a shot as an OC or QB coach elsewhere, and will probably be successful. Unfortunately, we are paying for his learning curve.

If RV replaces him I think he goes back to SLC. Still lives there and their AD and HC are in hot water over the Daxx Garman transfer fiasco. Wouldn't be surprised to see him back there as AD and/or coach.

KingDL1 · September 23, 2010

Yeah. Dodge will get a shot as an OC or QB coach elsewhere, and will probably be successful. Unfortunately, we are paying for his learning curve.

I think Dodge could and very well might become a very good head coach in the FBS, but he is missing some foundations and he needs to go put some dues in at a big program. He is smart and he can coach, he will get it figured out, but that may be another 5-10 years down the road.

greenminer · September 23, 2010

Anyone catch the comments of Bob Stoops or Mack Brown recently. Neither are thrilled with some of their schools' recently performances (yes, I know we'd trade for them...but, their level is different). Both have hammered home the fact that they've got kids on their roster who aren't working hard enough and aren't listening...and it shows up on the field. For what is expected of those squads, they've struggled against teams they'd normally blow out early.

As a quick aside, I can't help but notice that when Mack/Bob play those cards to the media, they are 'hammering' home the expectations, etc that come with the program.

When Dodge plays those cards, he gets blasted for "throwing these kids under the bus" and "not taking responsibility".

But when you have rings on your finger that say National Champs, I guess you can say whatever you want.

shaft · September 23, 2010

Dodge doesn't have any skins on the wall, so when he's says it it's a cop out.

Green Dozer · September 23, 2010

I have both a comment and a question....

First, I was all for letting TD finish the season, before deciding his fate. Personally, I would probably be OK with even 5 wins, if the team could somehow show lot of improvement in the remaining season.

However, because of the injuries, this season could easily spirial out of control quickly. The reality is that winning 7 games at this point would take a minor miracle (even 5 might take a masterful coaching/motivation job).

So, I see 4 options for RV at this point.

[1] Let TD finish the season no matter what, then replace him and start an official coaching search.
[2] Try and find a permanent replacement coach ASAP and hire him as soon as things get out of hand DURING the season (if things really go south).
[3] Release TD during the season and replace him with an interim coach (i.e. Canales or DeLoach).
[4] Give TD a mulligan on this season due to the injuries.

If RV goes with #1 and takes his time finding another coach, wouldn't this hurt what is left of this years recruiting ? Or, is it already too late ?

#2 might be an option, but only if RV already has a coach in mind.

Option #3 does not good at all to me, unless we plan on promoting the interim coach to HC in the offseason. You might as well let TD finish things out.

If RV goes with #4, he stands to receive a ton of backlash from most of the NT supporters (based on what I have seen in this forum anyway).

Here is my question. Maybe OldTimer can answer it. What percentage of college players have already given verbal agreements for the next recruiting class ? I am guessing that it is already too late for us to have any major positive impact on the next recruiting class.

I had such high hopes for this season

Go Mean Green. I really hope that our kids and coaching staff go down fighting this season.

Where has option #2 happened at where the new coach is brought in during the middle of the season , and started coaching or recruiting? Can you imagine the attitude of the assistants who have to stay on and work, knowing they more than likely are not staying. I mean they know that anyway, but still. It would also limit us in the coaching pool we have to choose as you are saying it has to be a coach not currently employed. OU is not going to let, say a Venables come here until their regular season is over, and if they are in the Big 12 Championship, after that. The future coach may be having a great year as a head coach somewhere else right now.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Green Dozer

Green Dozer · September 23, 2010

I don't know what board you were reading, because I don't think there has been a unanimous opinion on any topic here.

I don't know what board you are reading either. I guess my wording is off, excuse me! Maybe I should have used the word "majority" and it does not take to much reading, at least on the board I read, that the majority think UNT needs to make a change at head coach.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Green Dozer

UNT90 · September 23, 2010

I don't know what board you are reading either. I guess my wording is off, excuse me! Maybe I should have used the word "majority" and it does not take to much reading, at least on the board I read, that the majority knowledgable football fans think UNT needs to make a change at head coach.

You are right

Edited September 23, 2010 by UNT90