The Denton Community Still Not Supporting

[UNTLifer]

I just read that the Fry Street Fair is moving to Deep Ellum in Dallas!? Now I have never attended this festival because it isn't really my type of scene, but didn't this bring alot to the Denton economy? I know they have had some problems over the years, but is this another case of Denton running off something that could benefit the town? Just wondering

[Cerebus]

but is this another case of Denton running off something that could benefit the town?  

Yes.

<_>

[UNTFan23]

For the most part, the music scene has left Denton. It did so several years ago. The moving of the "Fry Street Fair" looks like the final nail in the coffin.

Maybe this will be a slap in the face for Denton when it comes to supporting different programs, but I doubt it for some reason. <_<

[EagleChick03]

Wow. That is awful. Delta Lodge fought for the fair to stay on Fry Street but the city decided the fair had out grown the location and crowd control was too much to handle. I thought it would stay somewhere in Denton though.

I'm sorry but what is FRY STREET FAIR if it is not on FRY STREET?!?!? Or not even in Denton?! This is the end of an era. Denton was able to kill off a 23-year old tradition, losing part of what made UNT unique........

[EagleChick03]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooooo...........Fry street fair really has moved to deep ellum...that is horrible........Fry Street Fair webpg

[PlummMeanGreen]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooooo...........Fry street fair really has moved to deep ellum...that is horrible........Fry Street Fair webpg

Fry Street could mean to UNT what 6'th Street is to UT if there were a handful of people up there being creative about what to do with that area rather than feuding with each other and the city of Denton (and visa-versa).

More money just leaving Denton...Not the first or the last time (unfortunately). This has got to change eventually. Time and new faces will make it change and I believe that with all my heart. Some up there (it seems) would rather be right than rich. If you go with what they call right, that is.

Anyone now have a small clue as to why we need to have GREATER LEWISVILLE NIGHT AT FOUTS FIELD for the Baylor/UNT game now? Some thing (or a few somebodies) in Denton just keeps the town from being progressive and relevant to what is happening now in towns that are known as "college towns." Many of our best and greatest Mean Green fans are from Denton and get as frustrated with all this as much as we non-Dentonites do.

I don't know where the communications broke down between the Delta Lodge folks and City of Denton, but its a loss of revenue for the city at the top of the golden triangle. What a shame!

PS Could Fry Street Fair have been moved over to Fouts Field's humongous east parking lot area, also near the PEB while using UNT's 3 football practice fields (since Spring Football is over with next week)? Aren't we going to be at new football practice fields next Spring anyhow?

[EagleChick03]

Here is the story from the DRC...I agree with the quotes in this article. No one will drive to Dallas for FRY STREET fair. They make it sound like after this year, this is hope it could come back to Denton....we need to find out how......

Goodbye, Fry; on to Deep Ellum

Some former attendees concerned with safety issues of a fair in Dallas

03/10/2003

By Megan Middleton / Staff Writer

The Delta Lodge announced Sunday that this year’s Fry Street Fair would move to Dallas’ Deep Ellum.

The Delta Lodge, the organization that hosts the event, announced the new location on its Web site, frystreetfair.com, and members confirmed the information.

"We are not turning our backs on Denton," said Bryce Richardson, music chairman for the Fry Street Fair. "We think we can raise a good amount of money having it there so we can come back to Denton. That’s our goal."

Mr. Richardson said there will be 36 bands, four stages and three disc jockeys at the 24th annual fair, scheduled to be held from 3 p.m. to 2 a.m. April 19.

He said he would not release specific information on the exact location in Deep Ellum, ticket prices or which bands would perform. He said in the next couple of weeks that information would be released.

The decision came after a long search by the organization, which was told by the Denton City Council in November that it could not hold the fair on Fry Street after this year. The police department recommended to the council that the fair not go on because of problems of overcrowding on Fry Street.

"We searched high and low for places in Denton for about three months, and we just couldn’t find one that would work out," Mr. Richardson said.

He said officials from Deep Ellum contacted the Delta Lodge about bringing the fair there, and they offered the best, most inexpensive deal.

"It was the best opportunity to keep the event going and alive," he said.

One advantage to the new location will be the exposure some Denton bands will receive from playing in Dallas, Mr. Richardson said.

"Deep Ellum is a real popular area for music," he said. "We know people come there to see bands we have booked for the fair in the past, and it gives an opportunity for Denton bands to get exposure in the Metroplex area."

Justin White, an employee at Café Brazil in Deep Ellum, said the fair’s move will mean more money for Deep Ellum businesses. Mr. White, who has attended the fair in Denton, said it would bring more Denton people to the area as well.

"For Deep Ellum in general it will probably be good because it exposes the people in Denton to the Dallas scene," he said. "It opens it up for a whole new audience."

The Delta Lodge’s hope is that Denton will continue to support the fair, no matter where it is, Mr. Richardson said.

"We’re very excited. I think it’s going to be a great, great fair and a great opportunity for us. It’s definitely a change we are adjusting to, but an exciting change," he said. "We hope we can get the support of the Denton community."

The news of the fair’s new location came as a disappointment to many of those who look forward to attending it each year.

"It’s a Denton tradition," said Eve Todd, a Denton resident who has been to the fair six times. "We’re a college town. We deserve something. If anything, we’ll have our own parties down here."

Several students said they are not willing to drive to Dallas to attend the fair, especially when in past years, many just walked to it from their homes.

"If they are moving it down to Deep Ellum, I don’t think I’m going to go," Casey O’Connor, who lives near Fry Street, said. "I think it’s a bad idea."

In past years, he and his roommates have climbed on top of their roof to watch the festivities and enjoy the music, Mr. O’Connor said.

"The music was usually pretty good," he said. "They bring in some good acts. It’s that and the people. It was always fun. The whole town, pretty much, is there."

Mr. O’Connor’s girlfriend, Lili Greenwood, said she wouldn’t drive to Deep Ellum either.

"I don’t know many people from Denton that would go," Ms. Greenwood said. "It’s not safe."

She said one of the traditions associated with Fry Street Fair is drinking alcohol, and a long drive and alcohol just don’t mix.

"It’s dangerous to drive all the way up [interstate] 35 if you’re drunk," she said. "People from Dallas will probably go, but it won’t be the same, because it’s not the Denton Fry Street. It won’t be the same in Deep Ellum because it will be Dallas people. It just won’t be the same."

Mr. Richardson said the Delta Lodge is concerned about people’s safety and is working on ways to ensure that fairgoers can be safe and have fun. Although, he said he could not comment on the details of those plans right now.

Kight Haberer, a Delta Lodge member, said he hopes that after a year of the fair’s absence, maybe more people would help the organization bring the fair back to Denton.

"The whole city has fun that day and now ... no more," Mr. Haberer said. "Maybe it’ll come back."

He said he would be in Deep Ellum "cheering on the bands and encouraging fun."

"I hope it’s as much fun," he said.

Pat Colonna, who has lived in Denton near where the fair takes place for about 30 years, said Fry Street and the fair has always symbolized the "colorful" part of the city. She said she hopes Denton does not lose that along with the Fry Street Fair.

"We’ve always had a unique way of life here, and now we’ve lost a part of it," Ms. Colonna said. "We’ve always had a lot of diversity and tolerance, and I hope we still keep that."

Mr. Richardson said for information about fair tickets, specific location and directions, those interested should check the Fry Street Fair’s Web site during the next couple of weeks.

MEGAN MIDDLETON can be reached at 940-566-6880.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Here is the story from the DRC...I agree with the quotes in this article. No one will drive to Dallas for FRY STREET fair. They make it sound like after this year, this is hope it could come back to Denton....we need to find out how......

Why are they even calling it Fry Street Fair if its not even going to be held in the same city/county that Fry Street is located is my main question?

Sometimes, I think there are elements in certain drinking fountains up there that massively destroy brain cells that a certain element in Denton are privvy too.

<>*<> You know, though, on my sainted mothers final resting place and in my heart of hearts, I want great things to happen to one of the finest places to live in Texas (or the USA for that matter); and that is, DENTON, TEXAS, USA! I just don't think some of the people up there (general citizenry and students) are allowing some of the great things that could be happening up there to, uh, happen.

[Texas Stranger]

"We searched high and low for places in Denton for about three months, and we just couldn’t find one that would work out," Mr. Richardson said.

What about that huge grassy field just south of the Radisson ? Plenty of room.....you could even invite the surrounding neighborhood...

[Keith Fever]

Maybe I can clarify a few points for the board.

The Police and Fire Departments have valid concerns about public safety at the Fair. They are responsible to Denton residents to look out for these concerns. If there were a death or serious injury at the Fair, the City would be liable and they would pay damages with taxpayer money. Delta Lodge would be liable as well, but they could avoid paying damages by declaring bankruptcy.

The City was willing to work with the Fair on those safety concerns to have it on Fry Street this year, but the Delta Lodge didn't want to do that. And the city offered to look at alternate locations IN DENTON for the future. The Delta Lodge decided not to do that either (yet). In the time since this was offered and this recent announcement, The Delta Lodge has made no contact with the City.

A big concern seems to be the city is throwing away money. Actually, the City loses money every year because of the Festival. Some Fry Street businesses lose money as well and they don't support the Festival or even like having it at all. They lose money due to additional employees, private security, additional dumpster pickups, and repairs to property. Of course some make money, but it isn't really that much after added expenses.

The City made a total of $5,717 last year due to the Festival. This includes all motel/ hotel tax (not just those here for the Fair) and sales tax from the Fry Street businesses. The City determined that in order to maintain the same level of Public Safety during and after the event (calls to Police increase dramatically the night of the Fair after it is over) would cost over $30,000 of taxpayer money.

With all of that said, I think it is wrong that the Fair will be in Deep Ellum, but I think the Delta Lodge is more to blame than the City. The City tried to work with the Delta Lodge but they did not want to work with the city because they didn't like what we had to say.

[meanrob]

I just love it when people who don't even live near Denton obviously know what is best for Denton.

It makes we wonder if there isn't something in the water that makes people type before thinking?

[UNTLifer]

I just love it when people who don't even live near Denton obviously know what is best for Denton.

It makes we wonder if there isn't something in the water that makes people type before thinking?

Who would you be referring to?

[meanrob]

90% of the people on these boards.

[Keith Fever]

Some thing (or a few somebodies) in Denton just keeps the town from being progressive and relevant to what is happening now in towns that are known as "college towns."  

I don't know where the communications broke down between the Delta Lodge folks and City of Denton, but its a loss of revenue for the city at the top of the golden triangle.  What a shame!  

PS  Could Fry Street Fair have been moved over to Fouts Field's humongous east parking lot area, also near the PEB while using UNT's 3 football practice fields

Could you please elaborate on what the city is doing to keep Denton from being progressive and relevant to other college towns? This is not meant to be accusatory, I would just prefer to have some specific examples rather than just a general accusation.

The communications on the Fair broke down with the Delta Lodge. See my above post.

I don't think moving an event such as this onto school property could ever happen. It took a long time for the UNT Legal Department to approve drinking during tailgating much less an event like the Fair.

[EagleChick03]

Here's a column by Brian Stimson that ran in the daily today. I think it has some great points.

Fry street fair, without the Fry

"The Fair has changed since the end of the last century; some might say for the better, some might say for the worse."

March 11, 2003

COLUMN

Senior Brian Stimson details that removing the Fry Street Fair from Denton hurts students, alumni, business and Denton culture.

My early memories of Fry Street Fair are hazy, but they do exist in the deep recesses of my mind.

I was a hot-blooded 16-year-old with a fresh license to drive and a desire to escape the dire realities of life in the suburbs.

I wanted to discover the extreme hype surrounding the greatest celebration of youthful exuberance in North Texas.

The fair has changed since the end of the last century; some might say for the better, some might say for the worse.

In light of the recent news to move to a club location in Deep Ellum, there are few (intelligent) people who can look me in the eye and say, "Why yes Mr. Stimson, having a Fry Street Fair 30 miles away from its home IS a good idea."

Denton Police Chief Charles Wiley and Fire Chief Ross Chadwick did this city a great disservice that fateful day when they made their first complaint.

Wiley took a piece of culture from this city; he squeezed the blood out of the heart of counter-culturalism.

While the Delta Lodge hopes to see all of Denton show up in the heart of Deep Ellum and celebrate like it were early 2002, they have overlooked one of the most essential themes of what Fry Street Fair represented: Denton business, culture and its people.

With the Fair in Deep Ellum, Denton businesses can no longer benefit from the increased business the fair brings;

students, residents and alumni can no longer come back to the place we all call home to revel in familiar places.

It is no longer possible to drink as much beer as your belly can hold and simply walk home to safety.

Now Wiley is leaning back in an air-conditioned office, smiling and laughing.

He has finally rooted out a thorn that has been stuck in his side since taking the job in March 2002.

With a little bit of work, Wiley just made his job easier. Fry Street Fair is not his problem anymore, it's now the problem of the Dallas Police Department.

It can now be noted that in the spring of the year of 2003 Denton was stripped of its biggest and baddest festival ever.

Let's hope the boys and girls of the Delta Lodge have enough gumption to move the Fair back to where it belongs.

I cry today (not really, I'm just pissed) for all those young individuals who aren't going to take the time to drive all the way to Dallas to celebrate an indoor fair that was meant to be outdoors and in the streets of Denton.

Bryan Stimson is a Keller senior. He can be reached at bstimson@aol.com.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Sounded like the 2 just agreed to disagree...

But on Denton's lack of aggressiveness to help create a more solid tax base for its own citizenry and just not being aggressive in other areas, here are just a few examples:

What Denton County city about 1/10'th the size of our alma mater's city got the WalMart Distribution Center over Denton? Boy, I am sure that Sanger Chamber of Commerce is a real dynamo of an operation but good gosh, Denton, you let Sanger beat you on that one!?!?!?!?

I understand that Fry Street Fair has drawn anywhere from 25K to 40K in year's past. Tell me any other city who would even admit that they lose money with that many people in their town for a full day? (I'd be too embarrassed to admit to such). Hell, even KTCK 1310 "The Ticket's" Corby got excited about coming up to Denton for Fry Street Fair.

The Denia neighborhood? They want to know why all this new construction over at the former Eagle Point golf course is necessary? duh$?$?$?

Others who have been around Denton a few decades know exactly what I am talking about here. Maybe a few of them will cite some examples here. But I am not going to get into a pis$$ing contest over this because there are many on this board other than myself who know that Denton has not been the most aggressive Metroplex city in getting new industry. Just get a copy of the Dallas Business Journal weekly tabloid and just read for yourself what is going on but is not going on in Denton. It will make your head spin at all the activity but hardly any of it when it comes to our alma mater's home city.

Frisco is getting a $300 million sports complex? You think someone from the City of Frisco may have told Mr. Tom Hicks that they were open for discussion?

Oh well...

[UNTLifer]

I will add this one point regarding the move of Fry Street Fair and then move on. I did mention earlier that Denton should work to keep the Fair in Denton, although the Fair is not my "cup of tea."

I would place alot of the blame on the Delta Lodge. Look at their history on the UNT campus. First they were the Sigma Alpha Mu chapter until their national organization yanked their charter for hazing and other ridiculous stunts. In fact, I think the main reason they were discontinued was because they were an embarrassment to their national organization.

Next they became the Delta Lodge and procede to run their house on the corner of Fry and Hickory in to the ground. I seem to recall a motorcycle hanging from a tree for years! I don't think their behavior won many fans with the Denton community. I know that when I brought friends into town, they would ask what that place was. This "counter-culture", as the gentleman that wrote the editorial in the Daily calls it, was nothing more than a bunch of people wanting to stand out and be different from the rest. Maybe if they would have tried to work a little harder with Denton on managing the Fair, then Denton would have been more receptive to keeping it.

I know this is a change of heart from my original post, but the more I thought about it, the more my feelings reflect what I just posted.

[IronMan4]

Seems like I read about some Delta Lodge hazing problems recently in the Daily, perhaps in the fall. But the University was unable to discipline them because they are not a recognized organization.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I just love it when people who don't even live near Denton obviously know what is best for Denton.

It makes we wonder if there isn't something in the water that makes people type before thinking?

Probably is something in that water, meanrob, but it sure isn't from the same fountain you are drinking from.

Welcome back from your self imposed exile; and how many of those have there been?

[Keith Fever]

OK, Plumm, here is my attempt to answer some of your musings.

I didn't realize asking you to explain yourself meant I wanted to get into a pissing contest.

Denton was never approached for the Wal Mart Distribution Center. Wal Mart has a history of putting these in very small towns. Do you think price/ amount of land was better in Sanger than in Denton?

20,000 people go to the fair. I'm saying the City as an organization lost money. These are facts. You can not trust my sources for this if you want but this is the truth. Some businesses do make money, but not as much as you would think. And at least 9 of the businesses actually do lose money. This is what they told the city.

Although I do not agree with the Denia group, I understand their stance. If I lived there and did not support athletics or the school, I would probably fight against it as well. It is just survival instinct. Actually, if I lived there for real, I would be pretty happy about being that close to the stadium. By the way, the Mayor lives in the Denia neighborhood. She and her husband are big supporters of athletics and the school.

Jim, I just asked for some clarification. Don't get upset at having to explain yourself. Just explain yourself. The problem is when you say some things that are not true or cannot be backed up, people start to believe what you said is true. I think that is where a lot of this anti-business mentality comes from.

I cannot speak about the City in the past. I have only been here for 10 years or so. I still live in Denton by the way. I can speak about what is going on now.

$100 million construction of a new Denton Community Hospital

$30 million expansion of Denton Regional Medical Center

$30 million construction of a new Sally Beauty Supply Headquarters

multi-million dollar Denton Crossing shopping center

Foley's and Barnes and Noble in the mall

Numerous new hotels and restaurants around town

[meanrob]

Exile?

Never heard you question your buddy GG's returns?

"25K to 40K at the fair?"

This remark proves one crucial point. That you exaggerate to try and make a point that you can't even make. I've been to 9 out of the past ten fairs (see, that is first hand knowledge not pulling numbers out of the air) and I've never heard the crowd estimated at more than 15-20K. And that is only in a couple of those years.

Quite a few Fry St business owners don't like the fair. That's straight from the mouth of people who own businesses on Fry St. It's BYOB so they don't make a lot of money off of the booze and almost everyone comes up for the day and leaves. Delta Lodge makes most of the money and then has lied about giving it to charity.

Those are FACTS. From people who live and do business in Denton.

Denton is Denton. Some good and some bad. Just like other cities. However somehow you have to equate every decision made in Denton with UNT football and that is ridiculous. All you care about is more people in hopes that it will bring more people to the games. Is that how a city should be run? Is that what they do where you live?

If saying that because they are building a sports complex in Frisco means Denton isn't progressive then I guess there are about 100 other cities in the Metroplex that aren't progressive either. Why wasn't it built in Lewisville, The Colony, or Flower Mound? They all have plenty of land and are in growing areas?

You have absolutely no knowledge why the sports complex was built where it was. It just wasn't Denton and that means Denton is bad. That's some logic there.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Exile? You've already forgotten writing off this message board and all of us posters who don't quite agree with everything you say a few weeks ago because not everything posted is in accordance to "the world according to meanrob--Denton's self appointed ambassador?"

I've heard folks from KTCK 1310 The Ticket talk about crowds at Fry Street meeting those high estimates. Corby Davidson is a regular at FSF and he talks about it the time of year it takes place. I was surprised to hear that they were that high myself, but if you say the are not that high, meanrob, I am $ure we can take that to the bank.

I also do remember and was amused on how (so obvious to others than myself BTW); anyway, that you get so pi$$ed at other people's opinions on this board, make your usual hit and run comment and then leave for weeks at a time; sort of a take your ball home and don't come back and play atttitude if things aren't quite posted the way you seem to think they should be?

And to quote another GMG.com poster on your here now--gone tomorrow approach on this board (and I quote): "What is meanrob's goals and objectives of even coming on this board if its always of a confrontational nature and always being pissed at other people's post? Also, trying to belittle all who try to opinionate about a college town that most of us used to live in a few years ourselves?

Come on meanrob, you and I know what this is all about now don't we?