With The 6Th Loss.....make The Change

[yyz28]

So Canales or Deloach deserve a shot at the reins despite their performance due to the circumstances, but Dodge has to face the executioner now, despite them?

No thanks.

Circumstances were: 7 Offensive Starters out in first 3 Games. Now lets get specific:

QB #1 & 2 Out for Season

Center #1 & 2 Out for Season

Multiple Receivers out for year.

Head Coach Rumors all week about him getting fired. Hard for a team to stay focused when they know it is coming. Playing on the road.

Not Excuses, those are just facts.

Edited September 19, 2010 by yyz28

[KingDL1]

This, I don't agree with. I really, REALLY think that if/when a change gets made, it should be immediate and we should name an interim coach to finish out the year.

Any reason? Will it show RV means business? Will it give the fan base hope?

I mean will Oct 11^th be better then Nov 29^th?

I don't care and if there is any reason at all I am on board I just can't think one of that is significant.

[jtcozy]

TD is and has been over his head from day one. He is not ready for college. He needs to spend some time as a position coach, then coordinator and then a HC. No one I can think of has made that kind of jump even in a lower conference like the Sun Belt.

[SUMG]

Any reason? Will it show RV means business? Will it give the fan base hope?

I mean will Oct 11^th be better then Nov 29^th?

I don't care and if there is any reason at all I am on board I just can't think one of that is significant.

Time is of the essence, Tony....mainly for two reasons:

1) Recruiting

2) Beating other schools for potential coaching candidates.

So yeah....October 11....over November 29....by a HUGE MARGIN.

[KingDL1]

Time is of the essence, Tony....mainly for two reasons:

1) Recruiting

2) Beating other schools for potential coaching candidates.

So yeah....October 11....over November 29....by a HUGE MARGIN.

But there is no way we will have a new coach in place until after Nov 29th is there?

[untbowler]

Circumstances were: 7 Offensive Starters out in first 3 Games. Now lets get specific:

QB #1 & 2 Out for Season -- insert #1 from 2009 = upgrade??

Center #1 & 2 Out for Season

Multiple Receivers out for year.

Head Coach Rumors all week about him getting fired. Hard for a team to stay focused when they know it is coming. Playing on the road.

Not Excuses, those are just facts.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

But there is no way we will have a new coach in place until after Nov 29th is there?

Why not? Can't you hire a guy in "agreement?"

[KingDL1]

Why not? Can't you hire a guy in "agreement?"

I figure most of the great coaches we would look at have a gig of their own this year, and won't leave until after the last game unless it is some BCS coach that gets canned for not making the top 10. But for the most part these coaches make their changes voluntary or by request around Thanksgiving it seems to me.

[greenminer]

Why not? Can't you hire a guy in "agreement?"

in the NCAA, we call these "verbals"

[TheTastyGreek]

Any reason? Will it show RV means business? Will it give the fan base hope?

I mean will Oct 11^th be better then Nov 29^th?

I don't care and if there is any reason at all I am on board I just can't think one of that is significant.

Nothing good can come of leaving him on as an interim guy. Absolutely nothing positive. But it could work out to be a negative decision.

The most obvious one (to me) is Dodge's propensity to burn potential redshirts. Brelan Chancellor got his shirt burned today so he could execute a 2 yard punt return. Anyone who thinks Dodge saw Arkansas State last year as his last game and last shot at a win was particularly upset about the Derek Thompson decision because Dodge would never have to deal with the potential consequences. I don't want to open up that can of worms again... But if it had turned out to be Dodge's last game, the fallout would have been more real and justified than anything we heard about black jerseys.

I'm sure a lot of other people can point out other examples of guys who played a handful of snaps on special teams or got throw in the fire for no apparent reason late in the year as true freshmen. NT03 mentioned John Weber's action last year when I saw him at the Pourhouse today.

Anyway... When he's got nothing to lose for his own future, I don't want him determining the future eligibility of our players.

When we broke camp this year, we had Nathan Tune, Victor Gill, Esteban Santiago, and Craig Robertson starting as 5th year seniors. Whatever anyone may think about their performance so far, they were starters because the coach who inherited them chose to play them. And he had the choice to play them as 5th year seniors because the coach who recruited them allowed them to redshirt as freshmen.

I want to make sure that the next coach, if there is a next coach, gets the same opportunity to use as much of the talent on this roster as possible.

It's already too late for Aaron Bellazin, Brandin Byrd, Brelan Chancellor, Drew Miller, Zach Orr, Richard Abbe, Ryan Boutwell, Zach Olen, Jose Serrano, Derek Teegarden, and Will Wright.

But it's not too late for Ricky Broxton, John Dodson, Blake Dunham, Shelton Gandy, Jared Harrison, Graylan Hawkins, Joshua Hunt, Antonio Johnson, John Noble, Wesley Racht, Konockus Sashington, Nick Summerfield, James Tandy, and Mason Y'Barbo.

As soon as loss 6 hits, you appoint an interim and inform him that anyone who is still redshirt eligible (and the list is dwindling, just 3 games into the season) is untouchable. Because I don't trust Dodge to care about the long term future of this team if he's already been fired.

[jimbob]

Dodge was told he had to win 7....so with the 6th loss....RV should then make the move. Reassign TD or whatever.

Do that....so that the search for the new coach can begin IMMEDIATELY.

I suspect our 6th loss will be 3 weeks from today. As sadly, I don't see this team winning another game. Maybe they will....but with injuries, and the overall lackluster play....I don't see it.

Anyway, if we lose the next three....the search could begin on Monday October 11.

And we might have a new coach in place by the end of the season.

The new coach could then possibly salvage some of this recruiting season....one in which we need to sign lots of good players.

And one more thing: Please UNT...spend the dough and bring in a proven guy. At this point, we don't need any more f'ing experiments.

So no hotshot OC from some place...or whatever. There are lots of name coaches available.....hire one.

I'm good with this sentiment, but would go a step further. Fire Dodge now, give the interim job to Canales and tell him we're still recruiting a head coach and he will be considered. We need to make a change sooner rather than later. The players like Canales and implementing this plan would make a big difference in morale going forward.

[KingDL1]

Nothing good can come of leaving him on as an interim guy. Absolutely nothing positive. But it could work out to be a negative decision.

The most obvious one (to me) is Dodge's propensity to burn potential redshirts. Brelan Chancellor got his shirt burned today so he could execute a 2 yard punt return. Anyone who thinks Dodge saw Arkansas State last year as his last game and last shot at a win was particularly upset about the Derek Thompson decision because Dodge would never have to deal with the potential consequences. I don't want to open up that can of worms again... But if it had turned out to be Dodge's last game, the fallout would have been more real and justified than anything we heard about black jerseys.

I'm sure a lot of other people can point out other examples of guys who played a handful of snaps on special teams or got throw in the fire for no apparent reason late in the year as true freshmen. NT03 mentioned John Weber's action last year when I saw him at the Pourhouse today.

Anyway... When he's got nothing to lose for his own future, I don't want him determining the future eligibility of our players.

When we broke camp this year, we had Nathan Tune, Victor Gill, Esteban Santiago, and Craig Robertson starting as 5th year seniors. Whatever anyone may think about their performance so far, they were starters because the coach who inherited them chose to play them. And he had the choice to play them as 5th year seniors because the coach who recruited them allowed them to redshirt as freshmen.

I want to make sure that the next coach, if there is a next coach, gets the same opportunity to use as much of the talent on this roster as possible.

It's already too late for Aaron Bellazin, Brandin Byrd, Brelan Chancellor, Drew Miller, Zach Orr, Richard Abbe, Ryan Boutwell, Zach Olen, Jose Serrano, Derek Teegarden, and Will Wright.

But it's not too late for Ricky Broxton, John Dodson, Blake Dunham, Shelton Gandy, Jared Harrison, Graylan Hawkins, Joshua Hunt, Antonio Johnson, John Noble, Wesley Racht, Konockus Sashington, Nick Summerfield, James Tandy, and Mason Y'Barbo.

As soon as loss 6 hits, you appoint an interim and inform him that anyone who is still redshirt eligible (and the list is dwindling, just 3 games into the season) is untouchable. Because I don't trust Dodge to care about the long term future of this team if he's already been fired.

Sounds good enough for me I am on board.

[rcade]

Head Coach Rumors all week about him getting fired. Hard for a team to stay focused when they know it is coming. Playing on the road.

Not Excuses, those are just facts.

Using "head coach rumors" and playing on the road to justify poor play *are* excuses. Really weak ones, too.

[SilverEagle]

I didn't read this whole thred, but if someone wants RV to "make the change" remember who's idea it was to hire Dodge in the first place.

[FirefightnRick]

And finally...have you guys ever heard of "being a man of your word?"

But that's so OLD SCHOOL!!!!!

Rick

[MeanGreenTexan]

Nothing good can come of leaving him on as an interim guy. Absolutely nothing positive. But it could work out to be a negative decision.

The most obvious one (to me) is Dodge's propensity to burn potential redshirts. Brelan Chancellor got his shirt burned today so he could execute a 2 yard punt return. Anyone who thinks Dodge saw Arkansas State last year as his last game and last shot at a win was particularly upset about the Derek Thompson decision because Dodge would never have to deal with the potential consequences. I don't want to open up that can of worms again... But if it had turned out to be Dodge's last game, the fallout would have been more real and justified than anything we heard about black jerseys.

I'm sure a lot of other people can point out other examples of guys who played a handful of snaps on special teams or got throw in the fire for no apparent reason late in the year as true freshmen. NT03 mentioned John Weber's action last year when I saw him at the Pourhouse today.

Anyway... When he's got nothing to lose for his own future, I don't want him determining the future eligibility of our players.

When we broke camp this year, we had Nathan Tune, Victor Gill, Esteban Santiago, and Craig Robertson starting as 5th year seniors. Whatever anyone may think about their performance so far, they were starters because the coach who inherited them chose to play them. And he had the choice to play them as 5th year seniors because the coach who recruited them allowed them to redshirt as freshmen.

I want to make sure that the next coach, if there is a next coach, gets the same opportunity to use as much of the talent on this roster as possible.

It's already too late for Aaron Bellazin, Brandin Byrd, Brelan Chancellor, Drew Miller, Zach Orr, Richard Abbe, Ryan Boutwell, Zach Olen, Jose Serrano, Derek Teegarden, and Will Wright.

But it's not too late for Ricky Broxton, John Dodson, Blake Dunham, Shelton Gandy, Jared Harrison, Graylan Hawkins, Joshua Hunt, Antonio Johnson, John Noble, Wesley Racht, Konockus Sashington, Nick Summerfield, James Tandy, and Mason Y'Barbo.

As soon as loss 6 hits, you appoint an interim and inform him that anyone who is still redshirt eligible (and the list is dwindling, just 3 games into the season) is untouchable. Because I don't trust Dodge to care about the long term future of this team if he's already been fired.

I think alot of these guys are playing not because Dodge enjoys burning redshirts, but because they are contributing/producing, or playing them was out of necessity:

Orr - I love what I'm seeing out of this guy.

Olen & Serano(who I thought already used a redshirt last year) - You have to try anything with this kicking game!

Byrd - touted as having a fantastic camp and can contribute to the team this year.

Wright - I'm not so sure we would have seen this guy if Ford didnt' go down.

I think I agree with your argument that if Dodge were to be fired, he should step down immediately (lest black jerseys and the like show up), but I don't think Dodge would do/has done that kind of stuff as a great big middle-finger to the program/fans. Nothing in his history has demonstrated that.

[TheTastyGreek]

I think alot of these guys are playing not because Dodge enjoys burning redshirts, but because they are contributing/producing, or playing them was out of necessity:

Orr - I love what I'm seeing out of this guy.

Olen & Serano(who I thought already used a redshirt last year) - You have to try anything with this kicking game!

Byrd - touted as having a fantastic camp and can contribute to the team this year.

Wright - I'm not so sure we would have seen this guy if Ford didnt' go down.

I think I agree with your argument that if Dodge were to be fired, he should step down immediately (lest black jerseys and the like show up), but I don't think Dodge would do/has done that kind of stuff as a great big middle-finger to the program/fans. Nothing in his history has demonstrated that.

I'd agree if we hadn't already seen 3 years of guys playing limited, absurd minutes and then getting little or no use thereafter.

Several of those burned shirts played against Clemson and haven't seen the field since, injuries be damned.

Doesn't make any sense to me. In 4 or 5 plays, did we SUDDENLY realize that someone wasn't ready and they oughtn't play again this year? And, if so, why didn't we realize that after spring and fall camp?

Abbe played against Clemson, hasn't seen any activity since. Boutwell played against Rice, but not against Clemson or Army. Teegarden, a 177 pound true freshman QB recruit, played against Clemson and hasn't played again since.

Drew Miller, a true freshman and one of SIX tight ends on the roster, played against Army and Army only. Redshirt freshman Austin Fitzpatrick didn't see the field yesterday. Neither did Junior TE Jamie Olawale. NO tight ends caught ANY passes. None have caught any passes ALL YEAR. We've only even thrown to a tight end TWICE in THREE GAMES. They only go in there to block! Did we absolutely HAVE to burn that potential redshirt? Would it have killed us to let one of those other, older, bigger, more experienced tight ends go in and block instead?

Byrd may be able to contribute this year... But is his contribution going to overshadow Lance Dunbar? And James Hamilton? And if he's so explosive we ABSOLUTELY MUST USE HIM RIGHT NOW NOW NOW, why does he have only two carries? And none in the past two games, when our offense has struggled and looked out of sorts? We can't find enough carries for our most explosive, dangerous weapon (or his explosive, dangerous backup), but we've absolutely got to have Byrd use up a year of eligibility on special teams? And not as a returner, where he might actually be able to use his speed and elusiveness to improve our field position or score points?

I don't think Dodge would burn redshirts as a "middle finger" to the fans. I think he'd do it because he's proven to be completely inept at utilizing the potential 5th year to develop a bigger, better, more trained talent pool. We keep throwing guys out there, year after year, to do basically NOTHING and forego a possible year of actual contributions somewhere down the line.

If the last coach followed the same philosophy Dodge does regarding giving underutilized players a year to learn and grow and develop, we would have started this season without our starting QB, half our offensive line, and our best defensive player.

Anyone who is enjoying Craig Robertson's work on defense this year should stop to consider that under the current philosophy, Robertson would have graduated last year. Because he would have played a handful of snaps on special teams in the 3rd and 6th game of his true freshman year, and not seen the field at all otherwise.

If he's fired, he needs to be gone and we need to do as much damage control as we can on saving the future eligibility of as many of our athletes as possible. Once the year is written off as lost, we play with the roster we have and try to secure the best possible future we can for the years to come.

[THOR]

i'm of the belief that the kids are here here to play and get a degree in four years. five years isn't promised or guaranteed. sure, it might be nice to have a kid bulk up so that they can contribute more later in their college career, but who is to say that the kids WANT to spend five years playing football??? i don't know how many fb players are redshirted their freshman year and stick around for five years. it might be a ton or it might be about half. there is no 100% guaranteed way to go about the redshirting stuff. let the coach decide, that's why he was hired.

the redshirting thing is a touchy subject with many, but i have no issues with whatever the coach does. the kids are here to get a degree/play football in four years. let them do that and start their adult life.

[GrayEagle]

Nothing good can come of leaving him on as an interim guy. Absolutely nothing positive. But it could work out to be a negative decision.

The most obvious one (to me) is Dodge's propensity to burn potential redshirts. Brelan Chancellor got his shirt burned today so he could execute a 2 yard punt return. Anyone who thinks Dodge saw Arkansas State last year as his last game and last shot at a win was particularly upset about the Derek Thompson decision because Dodge would never have to deal with the potential consequences. I don't want to open up that can of worms again... But if it had turned out to be Dodge's last game, the fallout would have been more real and justified than anything we heard about black jerseys.

I'm sure a lot of other people can point out other examples of guys who played a handful of snaps on special teams or got throw in the fire for no apparent reason late in the year as true freshmen. NT03 mentioned John Weber's action last year when I saw him at the Pourhouse today.

Anyway... When he's got nothing to lose for his own future, I don't want him determining the future eligibility of our players.

When we broke camp this year, we had Nathan Tune, Victor Gill, Esteban Santiago, and Craig Robertson starting as 5th year seniors. Whatever anyone may think about their performance so far, they were starters because the coach who inherited them chose to play them. And he had the choice to play them as 5th year seniors because the coach who recruited them allowed them to redshirt as freshmen.

I want to make sure that the next coach, if there is a next coach, gets the same opportunity to use as much of the talent on this roster as possible.

It's already too late for Aaron Bellazin, Brandin Byrd, Brelan Chancellor, Drew Miller, Zach Orr, Richard Abbe, Ryan Boutwell, Zach Olen, Jose Serrano, Derek Teegarden, and Will Wright.

But it's not too late for Ricky Broxton, John Dodson, Blake Dunham, Shelton Gandy, Jared Harrison, Graylan Hawkins, Joshua Hunt, Antonio Johnson, John Noble, Wesley Racht, Konockus Sashington, Nick Summerfield, James Tandy, and Mason Y'Barbo.

As soon as loss 6 hits, you appoint an interim and inform him that anyone who is still redshirt eligible (and the list is dwindling, just 3 games into the season) is untouchable. Because I don't trust Dodge to care about the long term future of this team if he's already been fired.

In concept, I don't have a problem with your premise but most of your list are walk-ons among those who have not played. Noble red-shirted last year so he would be good to go ahead and play. At the rate we are losing quarterbacks Dodson may have to play out of necessity. Ditto at center with Y'Barbo. Sashington is out for the year anyway. Mainly you would be protecting Dunham, Hawkins and Johnson. I'm good with those, especially Johnson, who I see as a potential four-year starter.

[DeepGreen]

If TD was told he had to win 7....and you fire him before he gets that chance to win 7:

I think that could really hurt us amongst Texas high school coaches. TD is one of their own. If it wasn't for that....I'd say go ahead and make the move. That's my main reason for doing it after loss #6.

Agree. And don't forget RV let Dickey go when DD had health issues. I still read articles on this. People remember. Six losses is the number.

[TheTastyGreek]

In concept, I don't have a problem with your premise but most of your list are walk-ons among those who have not played. Noble red-shirted last year so he would be good to go ahead and play. At the rate we are losing quarterbacks Dodson may have to play out of necessity. Ditto at center with Y'Barbo. Sashington is out for the year anyway. Mainly you would be protecting Dunham, Hawkins and Johnson. I'm good with those, especially Johnson, who I see as a potential four-year starter.

Noble doesn't list as a redshirt, either in his listing or his bio... I think he may have been a greyshirt like Boutwell was. A greyshirt from last year wouldn't have their eligibility clock start until this season. Could still redshirt.

As frustrating as it is that the walk-ons are the only ones left with redshirt potential... That is what we did with Casey Fitzgerald. I don't know if anyone is going to be anywhere near the player he turned out to be. Odds are, nobody will be. But we'd never have known if he hadn't redshirted in 2004.

At this point, if it saves anyone at all... At least that serves a purpose. Keeping a coach around after he's been terminated doesn't do anything positive for us.