This To Me Is More Heartbreaking Than Embarassing

[PlummMeanGreen]

I mean I am watching right before my eyes a team's morale slowly and painfully being disected. So many people don't think we deserve our new stadium, and honestly it's going to get so much worse now.

I don't know if we are not being conditioned right or what.

Broken bones are not a sign of poor conditioning last I checked on that subject. It's a sign of some terrifically bad luck for a football player no matter what school he represents.

BUT...........you say so many people don't think we deserve a new stadium at UNT? I'm looking for a line filled with such people who don't think we need a new stadium at UNT but I don't see that line or one even beginning to form.

More than ever UNT needs a new stadium. We have to have something to sell a future new HFC (if that time happens now sooner than later that we need one) and a new stadium like UNT is building will be one helluva' selling point.

Ask Baylor who had their dressing room electricity go out at half time several years if we need a new stadium.

Ask UNT fans who have to sit almost 45 yards from the field of play if we need a new stadium.

Ask the UNT students who voted to help fund a new stadium if we need a new stadium.

Ask the Indians whose apparent sacred gravesite Fouts Field was built on if we need a new stadium.

Ask any UNT letterman still alive and starting with Mean Joe Greene if we need a new stadium.

Ask those of us whose eyesights have progressively gotten worse thru the decades (poor sight lines & 45 yards away from the field of action?) if we need a new stadium.

Ask every Mean Green opponent's AD, HFC, their radio broadcasting team (no elevetor at FF) and all their respective football teams of the last several decades if UNT needs a new stadium.

So...........who the hell is in line saying we don't need a new stadium?

2011 for UNT means the New Stadium At The Mean Green Village which BTW we can't undo whats been built for those who say we don't deserve a new stadium and most likely because of our football team that needs a MASH unit on the sidelines.............a new HFC to help us debut that new stadium. (Dodge will never be the one to bring up the injuries in a "woe is me" attitude--guarantee it)!

Bless his heart but.......10 season ending injuries to starters after 3 games .....totally unheard of in my 5 plus decades of following football at every level) but injuries are part of football for every team.....

..........TDodge has been told of the criteria of 7 wins to stay in his position--barring a miracle it just won't be possible for him to stay, but isn't that we've all been saying since the Rice game? No 7--No Job? 0 & 6 (and I'd guess no sooner) will probably mean a private meeting between Rick V and Todd Dodge.

IMHO.....the DD versus TD comparisons are not what UNT wants to hold up as its barometer, either, but rather its most likely time for AD Rick V to start his private (discreet) search for (as GrayEagle posted last week) a name football coach who will not be an offensive or defensive coordinator, ie, an unknown commodity and a starter head football coaches kit, but rather a proven performer at the highest level of NCAA FBS. He may not even be in football at the moment, too, and no, that is not a reference or endorsement for Mike Leach, either.

Barry Switzer inquired (oh yes, he did) about the UNT job right after Dennis Parker was fired at UNT and he probably did that because he was tired sitting on his Norman, OK, sofa and he knew what UNT did for Fry's career as well. But.....it wasn't that long after he made that inquiry about the UNT job that Jerry Jones hired him to take JJ's place as I recall the chronology of that.

Today was one of the saddest days I can think of for the Mean Green. The young men who have elgibility left will I think experience better days in the future, but for the moment, I guess it will be all about building character in the face of extreme adversity. Lets hope we can get a slew of medical redshirts out of most of these injuries. UNT does have a case to present with such massive numbers of season ending injuries I would think.

GMG !

Edited September 18, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[Will to Win]

So RV took all the money from other sports like.... building a softball stadium for women's softball, building a tennis complex for the tennis team. I would say that we have several successful sports besides basketball - golf, tennis is improving, softball is improving, etc. At every football home game, there are promotions for other teams. They offer free tickets to soccer games following a home game if you bring in your football ticket. I listen to KNTU often on my way home from work, and there's always coverage for whatever sports teams are playing.

We're actually competing fairly well in the fan department, despite our lackluster football performance on the field. We had a great showing for the Rice game, and we manage to draw decently for each season - and much of that is because of the tailgating atmosphere that RV and his staff have created. I've been going to games since 2002 - have missed only one home game in that span - and can tell you that the gameday experience is VASTLY improved.

I don't understand how you think that because RV wanted to fire Dickey after 0-5 that means RV doesn't know how to hire a coach. Everyone wanted RV to fire Dickey after that start, except an influential donor and one of the BOR. And that's why Dickey stayed. Sometimes, an athletic director's options are limited by what he is allowed to do through the administration and other pressures. RV took a risk in hiring Dodge - we knew it, and he knew it. It was a gamble he was hoping would pay off, and since the guy had an endorsement from Bill Parcels, it's not hard to see why you might think you've got something. The sad fact is, until recently, North Texas simply did not have the money to lure most of the proven success coaches. I think Dodge only makes $300K per year, or something like that. Most of your bigtime program coaches make $1 million or more.

I wasn't a student on campus for this second attempt at getting the athletic fee passed. But I was on campus for the first. I can tell you that RV personally went to every residence hall that would have him, promoting the fee, answering questions, and encouraging students to vote. He worked very hard, and unfortunately due to some misinformation spread by the opposition, the fee didn't pass. I'm disappointed in my fellow students that we weren't able to push it through. But RV learned an important lesson through that attempt, which was that in order for the fee to pass, it had to be completely endorsed by the students. I can't vouch for RV's involvement personally in the second attempt, but based on the lessons learned from the previous athletic fee bill, my guess is that he wasn't simply sitting on his laurels just hoping the athletic fee would pass. There are those on this board who were instrumental in getting it passed - perhaps they can speak more accurately about RV's involvement.

But the bottom line is this: RV's dream when he took over the AD job in 2001 was to build a new stadium. That man has worked tirelessly despite the many naysayers and obstacles in his path. He's not perfect, but he's been a great AD for all of athletics, and a great ambassador for this school.

That may be so, but in the end he will always be linked to one questionable decision and that will define him (at least with UNT football fans). Fair or unfair as that may be.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Will to Win

[Welch]

Just out of curiosity since you brought it up in your first post, what sport did you play at North Texas, and for how long?

Track for 4 yrs.

[NT03]

I don't know about the other sports , but I know RV has done everything he can for the tennis program and that the coaches and players are very happy with him being the AD of this school.

[Green Mean]

Track for 4 yrs.

With all due respect but the other sports don't make money. If olympic athletes from foreign countries went to school here and trained here then you can say that it may generate something but other than that the other sports don't produce any revenue. The only revenue generators (if totally successful) are Football, Basketball, Baseball, and Ice Hockey(if you are in the north). Even then only a handful of schools actually make a profit from athletics and we know its not from sports like track. Other than that nothing will produce revenue.

[THOR]

That may be so, but in the end he will always be linked to one questionable decision and that will define him (at least with UNT football fans). Fair or unfair as that may be.

i don't think that one decision will define rv, it will be all the success he has had and that big effing construction project across the street.

[Welch]

With all due respect but the other sports don't make money. If olympic athletes from foreign countries went to school here and trained here then you can say that it may generate something but other than that the other sports don't produce any revenue. The only revenue generators (if totally successful) are Football, Basketball, Baseball, and Ice Hockey(if you are in the north). Even then only a handful of schools actually make a profit from athletics and we know its not from sports like track. Other than that nothing will produce revenue.

I addressed this in my first post.

When did this discussion ever become one on revenue?

Sorry to prove your point wrong, but there are plenty of schools without football teams that are doing great. UNT is not making money with football so why do you even bring this up? College athletics isn't always about making money.

[Pen Yan Fan]

Bless his heart but.......10 season ending injuries to starters after 3 games .....totally unheard of in my 5 plus decades of following football at every level) but injuries are part of football for every team.....

You might want to fire up a calculator....this team hasn't lost 10 starters to injuries.

[untgirl04]

I addressed this in my first post.

When did this discussion ever become one on revenue?

Sorry to prove your point wrong, but there are plenty of schools without football teams that are doing great. UNT is not making money with football so why do you even bring this up? College athletics isn't always about making money.

Ok, I'll bite. What do you consider a successful athletic program? I'll even spot you the definition. Since there are 'plenty of schools without football that are doing great,' please name me an athletic program in the state of Texas that is successful without football.

I will remind you, however, that without revenue, athletic programs cannot exist. That's why the argument always turns to revenue. The catch-22 at North Texas seems to be that we struggle to get revenue if we don't win.

[Green Mean]

I addressed this in my first post.

When did this discussion ever become one on revenue?

Sorry to prove your point wrong, but there are plenty of schools without football teams that are doing great. UNT is not making money with football so why do you even bring this up? College athletics isn't always about making money.

Well football isn't going away because we are getting a brand spanking new stadium one year from now so get over your whole get rid of football rant. Even with a god awful football team even our athletics are making it. We aren't Texas and probably never will be but if you think things aren't looking up then it only seems you are stubborn to look beyond Dodge era. I hate this Dodge era just as much as anybody but I think the next coach will be legitimate and credible and will produce far better results than Dodge.

[JesseMartin]

Ouch...as many may remember I was all for giving Dodge a chance to build...but unless he "pulls a Dickey" (hahah) and loses 5 followed by a bunch of straight wins in the second half of the season I'd have to agree that it's about time to close up shop and let him go to a D-2 school or something. I still say we've had some of the most exciting games EVER under Dodge, even though we lost, but some wins to go with the entertainment are more than warranted by this point. I still believe in a lot of his decisions, like the unmandated drug testing and such, but in sports, leading by a great example needs to be accompanied by a decent record. With all that's happened, if he'd had at least 4-5 wins per season I'd still be willing to give him extra "passes"...but since even that didn't happen, I can't really articulate reasons to keep him on as a head coach, no matter how much I appreciate the means he used to try to make the program better.

I love the attitude he brought, but I was obviously wrong about the way this would work itself out over the course of a few years. A guy like this seemed like he deserved the rare jump to D-1 coaching, but he obviously needs more time working through the college ball system before taking on another season as a D-1 head coach.

Sorry, Dodge, love most of what you've done, but the letter "W" needed to show up at least a few more times by now for me to keep siding with you staying with us.

[wardly]

I know it sounds harsh but R.V. must also be replaced for us to have chance for next season.

bull shit! when td was hired, you couldn't find a fan or sports reporter that didn't think it was a great hire. didn't turn out that way, but the only people who havn't made hiring errors are those who have never hired anyone. rv is same man who hired our mens basketball coach, a successful program that is still poorly suported by nt fans. before rv, the only new sports faciality we had built since my freshman year of 1961 was the old adm.now ticket office building when hayden fry was athletic dir.[ the super pit is considered a multi purpose building.]i don't see rv got as much built with no construction budget and alumni who are mainly all mouth and no money.

[Will to Win]

I love the attitude he brought, but I was obviously wrong about the way this would work itself out over the course of a few years. A guy like this seemed like he deserved the rare jump to D-1 coaching, but he obviously needs more time working through the college ball system before taking on another season as a D-1 head coach.

Sorry, Dodge, love most of what you've done, but the letter "W" needed to show up at least a few more times by now for me to keep siding with you staying with us.

I felt the same way however, would not of given him 4 years to find out if he can cut it at the college level. In a perfect world, I would of pulled the plug at the end of year two.

All the harm that has come to the UNT brand is irreversible. People associate UNT with losing. Was it worth it?

Edited September 18, 2010 by Will to Win

[Welch]

Well football isn't going away because we are getting a brand spanking new stadium one year from now so get over your whole get rid of football rant. Even with a god awful football team even our athletics are making it. We aren't Texas and probably never will be but if you think things aren't looking up then it only seems you are stubborn to look beyond Dodge era. I hate this Dodge era just as much as anybody but I think the next coach will be legitimate and credible and will produce far better results than Dodge.

Can you guys read? I stated already in my first post that I am not for ridding NT of football. I just said its possible for an athletic program to make it without football. READ, DON'T JUST POST NON-SENSE.

There are plenty of school across the nation without football teams that successfully compete in other programs. Look at UTA and UTSA. Both of them have decent athletic programs without football. Therefore, you don't have to have football to have an athletic program. They are both fully funded athletic programs.

But I must finish by saying this again... I AM NOT FOR RIDDING UNT OF FOOTBALL. I just was stating the point that football is not make or break for the other teams.

[Welch]

The point is, someone must take ownership in loosing.

[JesseMartin]

Can you guys read? I stated already in my first post that I am not for ridding NT of football. I just said its possible for an athletic program to make it without football. READ, DON'T JUST POST NON-SENSE.

There are plenty of school across the nation without football teams that successfully compete in other programs. Look at UTA and UTSA. Both of them have decent athletic programs without football. Therefore, you don't have to have football to have an athletic program. They are both fully funded athletic programs.

But I must finish by saying this again... I AM NOT FOR RIDDING UNT OF FOOTBALL. I just was stating the point that football is not make or break for the other teams.

Isn't UTSA starting a football program in the next year or two? I think it was them that I read about a week or two ago. Anyway, a lot of "younger" schools start without football and then build up to getting it. Very few Universities go without football in the long-term. Though not everybody's into it, it's one of the biggest marketing and retention tools overall. I wish art was the same way, hell, that would definitely help me and some of my friends, but it just isn't. Schools that don't have football and actually grow instead of folding almost always end up with a football program. Well, at least in the USA

[Welch]

Isn't UTSA starting a football program in the next year or two? I think it was them that I read about a week or two ago. Anyway, a lot of "younger" schools start without football and then build up to getting it. Very few Universities go without football in the long-term. Though not everybody's into it, it's one of the biggest marketing and retention tools overall. I wish art was the same way, hell, that would definitely help me and some of my friends, but it just isn't. Schools that don't have football and actually grow instead of folding almost always end up with a football program. Well, at least in the USA

But all that is beside the point. THE OTHER TEAMS STILL COMPETE WHEN THE SCHOOL HAS NO FOOTBALL TEAM.

Again, I am for our football team. I am just making the point that it is not holding up the other teams.

[UNT90]

RV was hired in 2001 and was ready to fire our 0-5 coach. But we started winning, and he bit his tongue. 4 conference titles later, and 4 SBC Coach of the Year awards did not mean a thing after a couple 2-win seasons. Except that maybe they prolonged the decision...I don't know.

I also think the 7-win ultimatum says otherwise to this tone you claim RV has set.

Not that I totally agree with his move, but RV giving Dodge this long tells me he wants to give this man every chance to build this program from the bottom up. And it is RV in that line of thought that leads me to believe he will give Dodge the full season to fulfill the deal.

If, say, Dodge is fired mid-season and Canales takes over and goes 0-whatever in 2010. Is this acceptable to you for the purpose of getting a head start for 2011? Would you agree that you are giving up on the seniors, completely dismissing their efforts and goals their final year of eligibility?

Purely hypothetical, but if Canales and DeLoach got together before the administration and donors and spoke in favor of 2011 Dodge, would you keep him around? Or laugh in their faces and clean them all out?

dodge gone. It's up to the new coach to decide who he wants to hire.

THIS TEAM WAS HEALTHY LAST YEAR AND uNDERACHIEVER!!!!!!!!!!

[PlummMeanGreen]

You might want to fire up a calculator....this team hasn't lost 10 starters to injuries.

10 (give or take 5)? Calculator? I still have an abacus and my beads may have malfunctioned.

Actually, I was told 10 today from another fan but (as always) I stand to be corrected.

GMG!

What a terrible day no matter how you slice it, though. I feel sorry for everyone in the entire UNT community but mostly.......our team. I don't think even they expected 0 & 3 after 3 games because I know most of us did not. Never, ever met Todd Dodge personally, either, but my heart goes out to him and what will probably turn out to be a short career at UNT, but I like the way he has handled himself up there (and will handle himself when the time comes for him to be let go).

GMG!

[Rudy]

All the harm that has come to the UNT brand is irreversible. People associate UNT with losing. Was it worth it?

Irreversible??? Well hell, I guess we all better jump ship and go root for someone else. That or wait a few years until NT changes their brand again.

[THOR]

The point is, someone must take ownership in loosing.

how does someone take ownership of a word that doesn't exist???

i don't want RV going anywhere!

[Will to Win]

What a terrible day no matter how you slice it, though. I feel sorry for everyone in the entire UNT community but mostly.......our team.

Good point, our players deserve better. They have to go through all this crap too.

[Rudy]

Can you guys read? I stated already in my first post that I am not for ridding NT of football. I just said its possible for an athletic program to make it without football. READ, DON'T JUST POST NON-SENSE.

There are plenty of school across the nation without football teams that successfully compete in other programs. Look at UTA and UTSA. Both of them have decent athletic programs without football. Therefore, you don't have to have football to have an athletic program. They are both fully funded athletic programs.

Yeah, UTA is well known.

UTSA is getting a football program in a couple of years.

The point is, someone must take ownership in losing.

Fixed.

[wardly]

I felt the same way however, would not of given him 4 years to find out if he can cut it at the college level. In a perfect world, I would of pulled the plug at the end of year two.

All the harm that has come to the UNT brand is irreversible. People associate UNT with losing. Was it worth it?

in hind site, no, it was not worth it. it was a bad hire, pure and simple. however, for the 1st 2 or 3 years, td did not have the full number of scholarships to give due to an academic mess he inherited. if i had a mullinan, i would 1]have hired him 2] not allowed him to bring his southlake staff with him, which was r.v.' biggest mistake, and 3] would have fired him last year. now, we will end this season with 6 years and maybe a dozen wins going into a new stadium and the shelf bare of any quality player depth. we need, in my opinion, to double our budget to $500,000 and hire a head coach with a proven track record of successful recruiting in texas.

[PlummMeanGreen]

bull shit! when td was hired, you couldn't find a fan or sports reporter that didn't think it was a great hire. didn't turn out that way, but the only people who havn't made hiring errors are those who have never hired anyone. rv is same man who hired our mens basketball coach, a successful program that is still poorly suported by nt fans. before rv, the only new sports faciality we had built since my freshman year of 1961 was the old adm.now ticket office building when hayden fry was athletic dir.[ the super pit is considered a multi purpose building.]i don't see rv got as much built with no construction budget and alumni who are mainly all mouth and no money.

Rick V was exactly what North Texas needed when we hired him. He did not let the "we never ever did it this way at UNT or in Denton" crowd pull him down, either. There were a few minor shaky moments with Rick V early on, but who of any of us have not had the same in our own respective walks of life?

Rick V is also just what we need now IMHO and I'm proud as hell that he somehow got that new football palace off the blueprints and into a present construction mode in a national economy that some have all but compared to the Great Depression. I still have no idea who is funding most of it, but I know they won't put another single concrete pillar up if its not paid for. I think Rick V and his Troops will find a corporate sponsor in due time, too. Hell, UNT may have to name something after the guy before he's done in Denton. His next hire unless TDodge pulls the mother of all miracles will probably be the most important one since he's been in Denton in light of the debut of a new football stadium.

With a new stadium, it might also be the easiest of hires for UNT football since all past HFC hirings with any of our AD's who had to give their prospective HFC's their respective tours knowing how they had to bite their tongues coupled with a faked smile when they saw venerable ol' Fouts Field .

GMG!

Edited September 18, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen