Anyone Else Think This Is The Make Or Break Game?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I'm thinking it is. If we can't beat Army - a school with an offense so skewed to the run - I think the players will be mentally done.

Many people are talking about injuries. It doesn't matter. We have had five seasons in a row of losing. Injuries? Well, if your team is deep enough, you can still get by. I just don't think the recruiting has been such that we have that kind of depth.

If Army beats us, it means we can't defend the run. And, as much as I loved Deloach's defense in the early oughts, it will be hard to defend any coach on the staff, from the top on down, if this thing goes badly tomorrow.

At the beginning of the week, I still had some confidence that this thing could take off. After seeing very strong performances by upcoming opponents, even in losses, I'm now not sure we can so much as break even in the Sun Belt - even if we were at full strength.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm teetering again towards reality. Reality is as I said it was last year: Our football program doesn't exist in a vacuum. Everyone else has been practicing and getting better as well. All things being the same, we still are what we are, and Troy/MTSU/FAU, etc. still are what they are. And, that's not good for us.

I'm glad the game is early, so we'll have a clear picture by the afternoon of whether this team has any fight left in it for the long haul. If not, four years of this regime and six years of losing is enough. RV should then do the right thing at that point and start calling real pros at the college football game.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I'm thinking it is. If we can't beat Army - a school with an offense so skewed to the run - I think the players will be mentally done.

Many people are talking about injuries. It doesn't matter. We have had five seasons in a row of losing. Injuries? Well, if your team is deep enough, you can still get by. I just don't think the recruiting has been such that we have that kind of depth.

If Army beats us, it means we can't defend the run. And, as much as I loved Deloach's defense in the early oughts, it will be hard to defend any coach on the staff, from the top on down, if this thing goes badly tomorrow.

At the beginning of the week, I still had some confidence that this thing could take off. After seeing very strong performances by upcoming opponents, even in losses, I'm now not sure we can so much as break even in the Sun Belt - even if we were at full strength.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm teetering again towards reality. Reality is as I said it was last year: Our football program doesn't exist in a vacuum. Everyone else has been practicing and getting better as well. All things being the same, we still are what we are, and Troy/MTSU/FAU, etc. still are what they are. And, that's not good for us.

I'm glad the game is early, so we'll have a clear picture by the afternoon of whether this team has any fight left in it for the long haul. If not, four years of this regime and six years of losing is enough. RV should then do the right thing at that point and start calling real pros at the college football game.

I expect a UNT win this weekend. I think the make-or-break game is next weekend at FAU. If we can get back to 2-2, then we may be able to salvage the year. If we're 0-4, then yes, the team's confidence is probably shot and we'll only see 2-3 wins in SBC play followed by a blowout against KSt.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Agree. And, the dream of beating Kansas State will be even more dim if we can't stop the run, given that they may have the best tailback in the Big 12. So much rides on these next two games.

[Green P1]

The make or break games were last year. This thing is broke.

[eppy4life]

I agreed with Rice being a must win. So...

[pollock]

If we'd beaten Rice, it wouldn't be.

Just think of how different our entire program outlook would be if, for example, Rice would have missed one of those 50-yard field goals.

[BeatNavy]

If Army beats us, it means we can't defend the run.

Not being able to defend against the triple option does not necessarily mean that you can't defend against the run. Just ask the man who coaches your safeties -- he knows a little about the triple option.

( In the opposite direction, being able to defend against the run does not necessarily mean that you can defend against the triple option. )

Edited September 17, 2010 by BeatNavy

[All About UNT]

Not being able to defend against the triple option does not necessarily mean that you can't defend against the run. Just ask the man who coaches your safeties -- he knows a little about the triple option.

( In the opposite direction, being able to defend against the run does not necessarily mean that you can defend against the triple option. )

Good to have you onboard for the week. Always appreciate insight from a 3rd party perspective.

[Will to Win]

LOL make or break

I want a win, losing sucks

[BeatNavy]

Good to have you onboard for the week. Always appreciate insight from a 3rd party perspective.

Thanks. It's quite a bit more fun being on opponents' boards than rehashing complaints on the Army boards.

[Green Lantern]

I just hope we come out firing on all cylinders. No spotting 7-10 points right off the bat like the past two weeks. Can't afford that on the road.

I fear the hangover from another soul crushing loss like Rice was last week. Please don't let that be our Ohio game from last year.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Green Lantern

[akriesman]

Right now I am concerned. But, I refuse to start discussing things like other coaching options unless we start 0-4. Dickey turned it around at the last possible moment, this team can do it also. However, we need to STOP losing any more players.

[KRAM1]

For me, it is the next two games...as has been previously said, if UNT can win the next two (and I fully expect them to do just that) and be 2-2, then I think the season could very well end up with a bowl for the Mean green. But, go 0-4 to start the season and it could just have a negative effect on the mental state of the team large enough to make 6-7 wins truly too big a hill to climb. I would definitely never say never even after a 0-4 start, but "reality" says that it would be a real tough go.

So, it starts Saturday at Army. Win at Army and the Mean green is back in action and headed forward.

GO MEAN GREEN!

TANK ARMY!

[medpilot21]

Questions.. too many questions. I think we are finally at the cross-roads with this team, just like one during the 2001 season. Many of us didnt give DD or that 2001 team a shot at winning against MTSU. Dustin Dean told me they started winning because they felt they had to save Darrell Dickey's job... even though DD told them not to think about that. I wonder what it takes for a team to play like that BEFORE the axe gets sharpened? I had hoped the Rice game would be a "MUTS-like" turn-around. These players gave everything they had in the Rice game, and I was proud of the fight they put up, but did they believe they could win? I honestly now think the difference in this team and DD's old teams must be coaching. I know we still have issues with kicking, dropped balls and etc..., but there has to be something else missing? Do we have as much or more talent on the field today than we did back then? DD wasnt a fan of closed practices and secret plays. He convinced his players to step up and show everyone they could win, no matter who's watching or the distractions. The fans and Alums stood right next to those players on the practice fields for all of those years. The coaches understood everyone played a part in that team's success, and we all felt like we were a part. Jamario Thomas once ran a sweep right into the alums on the sideline during practice, then looked up at us and said "That'll be a touchdown in Colorado!" We laughed, but we also believed him. We believed because he believed. Darrell Dickey certainly had his flaws. We all know what happened at the end, and how he exited this program. My point is that it was the head coach who motivated players like Chris Hurd(walk-on), Brandon Kenndy(too short), Darrell Daniels(under-sized), Kevin Galbreath(no break-away speed), Scott Hall(other recruiters considerred him a safety), Patrick Cobbs (too small) and others to play with heart and grit every down. None of those guys were five-star athletes, but ALL of those guys were very successful under Dickey. That is a head coach who knew something. THAT something is what is missing from this team. Is that something tha can be taught?, or do we fall under the "we are who we are" banner? I guess we'll know more tomorrow afternoon, one way or another.

Still too many questions...

GMG!!!

[PlummMeanGreen]

I'm thinking it is. If we can't beat Army - a school with an offense so skewed to the run - I think the players will be mentally done.

Many people are talking about injuries. It doesn't matter. We have had five seasons in a row of losing. Injuries? Well, if your team is deep enough, you can still get by. I just don't think the recruiting has been such that we have that kind of depth.

If Army beats us, it means we can't defend the run. And, as much as I loved Deloach's defense in the early oughts, it will be hard to defend any coach on the staff, from the top on down, if this thing goes badly tomorrow.

At the beginning of the week, I still had some confidence that this thing could take off. After seeing very strong performances by upcoming opponents, even in losses, I'm now not sure we can so much as break even in the Sun Belt - even if we were at full strength.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm teetering again towards reality. Reality is as I said it was last year: Our football program doesn't exist in a vacuum. Everyone else has been practicing and getting better as well. All things being the same, we still are what we are, and Troy/MTSU/FAU, etc. still are what they are. And, that's not good for us.

I'm glad the game is early, so we'll have a clear picture by the afternoon of whether this team has any fight left in it for the long haul. If not, four years of this regime and six years of losing is enough. RV should then do the right thing at that point and start calling real pros at the college football game.

I think you would be right, TFLF. If a coach loses his team emotionally, it may not matter how good they could get down the road because the mental thing is almost as tough to over-come as the physical (of which we are not doing so good at this moment with all the season-ending injuries).

So.......the Army win becomes important for (almost) that reason alone as far as the mental part goes.

Still don't think there would be a firing like RV wanted to do (or did) post-ULM game, circa 2001. I think Dodge gets to finish the season just to see what the team does in the SBC but secretly and discreetly, you know Rick V begins his coaching search and even moreso if we were to lose to Coach Schnelly's FAU (who we never beat in either DD's or Dodge's tenures).

GMG!

Edited September 17, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[island eagle]

Questions.. too many questions. I think we are finally at the cross-roads with this team, just like one during the 2001 season. Many of us didnt give DD or that 2001 team a shot at winning against MTSU. Dustin Dean told me they started winning because they felt they had to save Darrell Dickey's job... even though DD told them not to think about that. I wonder what it takes for a team to play like that BEFORE the axe gets sharpened? I had hoped the Rice game would be a "MUTS-like" turn-around. These players gave everything they had in the Rice game, and I was proud of the fight they put up, but did they believe they could win? I honestly now think the difference in this team and DD's old teams must be coaching. I know we still have issues with kicking, dropped balls and etc..., but there has to be something else missing? Do we have as much or more talent on the field today than we did back then? DD wasnt a fan of closed practices and secret plays. He convinced his players to step up and show everyone they could win, no matter who's watching or the distractions. The fans and Alums stood right next to those players on the practice fields for all of those years. The coaches understood everyone played a part in that team's success, and we all felt like we were a part. Jamario Thomas once ran a sweep right into the alums on the sideline during practice, then looked up at us and said "That'll be a touchdown in Colorado!" We laughed, but we also believed him. We believed because he believed. Darrell Dickey certainly had his flaws. We all know what happened at the end, and how he exited this program. My point is that it was the head coach who motivated players like Chris Hurd(walk-on), Brandon Kenndy(too short), Darrell Daniels(under-sized), Kevin Galbreath(no break-away speed), Scott Hall(other recruiters considerred him a safety), Patrick Cobbs (too small) and others to play with heart and grit every down. None of those guys were five-star athletes, but ALL of those guys were very successful under Dickey. That is a head coach who knew something. THAT something is what is missing from this team. Is that something tha can be taught?, or do we fall under the "we are who we are" banner? I guess we'll know more tomorrow afternoon, one way or another.

Still too many questions...

GMG!!!

That something is that Darrell Dickey, whatever his faults, taught his teams toughness (both mental and physical) AND he actually had someone who could develop special teams. There is nothing that this team lacks other than those two things. Unfortunately, I do not see much progress in either of those realms, though I think Canales and DeLoach have been moving in the right direction.

[EagleMBA]

I pretty much concur that this is a crossroads game. A win will sharpen the focus and build some confidence and momentum; a loss and guys will start to see it slipping away and go autopilot. No knock on anyone, it is human nature.

I'm ready for the ball to bounce our way for the first time in a LONG time. Part of that is the old cliche "you make your own breaks". If the real Mean Green shows up after last week's kick in the nuts, we will make our own breaks.

[TheTastyGreek]

Questions.. too many questions. I think we are finally at the cross-roads with this team, just like one during the 2001 season. Many of us didnt give DD or that 2001 team a shot at winning against MTSU. Dustin Dean told me they started winning because they felt they had to save Darrell Dickey's job... even though DD told them not to think about that. I wonder what it takes for a team to play like that BEFORE the axe gets sharpened? I had hoped the Rice game would be a "MUTS-like" turn-around. These players gave everything they had in the Rice game, and I was proud of the fight they put up, but did they believe they could win? I honestly now think the difference in this team and DD's old teams must be coaching. I know we still have issues with kicking, dropped balls and etc..., but there has to be something else missing? Do we have as much or more talent on the field today than we did back then? DD wasnt a fan of closed practices and secret plays. He convinced his players to step up and show everyone they could win, no matter who's watching or the distractions. The fans and Alums stood right next to those players on the practice fields for all of those years. The coaches understood everyone played a part in that team's success, and we all felt like we were a part. Jamario Thomas once ran a sweep right into the alums on the sideline during practice, then looked up at us and said "That'll be a touchdown in Colorado!" We laughed, but we also believed him. We believed because he believed. Darrell Dickey certainly had his flaws. We all know what happened at the end, and how he exited this program. My point is that it was the head coach who motivated players like Chris Hurd(walk-on), Brandon Kenndy(too short), Darrell Daniels(under-sized), Kevin Galbreath(no break-away speed), Scott Hall(other recruiters considerred him a safety), Patrick Cobbs (too small) and others to play with heart and grit every down. None of those guys were five-star athletes, but ALL of those guys were very successful under Dickey. That is a head coach who knew something. THAT something is what is missing from this team. Is that something tha can be taught?, or do we fall under the "we are who we are" banner? I guess we'll know more tomorrow afternoon, one way or another.

Still too many questions...

GMG!!!

Very good post.

[Army of Dad]

Very good post.

Hey Greek, I thought you were a grammar nazi and therefore would have disliked the run on sentence/paragraph thing.

[H-towngreen]

If we'd beaten Rice, it wouldn't be.

Just think of how different our entire program outlook would be if, for example, Rice would have missed one of those 50-yard field goals.

Different game when you have a kicker who can knock it in from 50+

[TheTastyGreek]

Hey Greek, I thought you were a grammar nazi and therefore would have disliked the run on sentence/paragraph thing.

I'm just a sucker for someone who can honestly look at both tenures and acknowledge the good and the bad in both, in a calm and conciliatory way.

Call me a softie, I guess...

[KingDL1]

I thought and think that Rice was a "Must Win" to set the tone for the season. This game against Army is all but a statical do or die game, we need to win it period. What really upset me with the Rice game is we should have won and won with points to spare. But instead we beat ourselves time and time again in that game with mistakes that I figured would be fixed by now. We are lucky the Defense showed up to keep the game respectful. Special teams just can't be this bad, but they still are. Riley calls and receiver drops blew my mind and our secondary on the D is much shakier then I hoped.

Maybe we will see and I hope we do see Derek Thompson bring a spark that sets off a wild fire of winning. But my hopes are starting to fade, come on wild fire.

[HoustonEagle]

I think this is a make or break game for Dodge's North Texas coaching career. If we lose this one we will not get to 6 wins much less 7. With that said, I personally don't think the program has ever been stronger than it is right now. There were years that I did not think D-1 football would survive at the school. I don't think that anymore. Now we have as many fans coming to games as there was during our bowl years and they are met with a terrific game day atmosphere. Our Athletic Center and practice fields are impressive and a new football stadium is on the way. Due to the athletic fee passing we will soon have more dollars in the pipeline that will bring in better coaching and equipment. This program is showing through it's losing years just how big time it will be. The only thing missing now is the wins and they will come because all that I mentioned above. The only question is will Dodge be the guy at the helm or will it be someone else. The only reason I hope Dodge is our guy is because I am ready to win this season. Waiting for the inevitable can be very painful at times.

[UNT90]

I'm thinking it is. If we can't beat Army - a school with an offense so skewed to the run - I think the players will be mentally done.

Many people are talking about injuries. It doesn't matter. We have had five seasons in a row of losing. Injuries? Well, if your team is deep enough, you can still get by. I just don't think the recruiting has been such that we have that kind of depth.

If Army beats us, it means we can't defend the run. And, as much as I loved Deloach's defense in the early oughts, it will be hard to defend any coach on the staff, from the top on down, if this thing goes badly tomorrow.

At the beginning of the week, I still had some confidence that this thing could take off. After seeing very strong performances by upcoming opponents, even in losses, I'm now not sure we can so much as break even in the Sun Belt - even if we were at full strength.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm teetering again towards reality. Reality is as I said it was last year: Our football program doesn't exist in a vacuum. Everyone else has been practicing and getting better as well. All things being the same, we still are what we are, and Troy/MTSU/FAU, etc. still are what they are. And, that's not good for us.

I'm glad the game is early, so we'll have a clear picture by the afternoon of whether this team has any fight left in it for the long haul. If not, four years of this regime and six years of losing is enough. RV should then do the right thing at that point and start calling real pros at the college football game.

You go from "this team will win 8 or 9 games" to "fire the coach" after game 3? The bipolarness in your posts have never been more apparent.

Dodge has to win 7 to keep his job. When it is impossible for him not to win 7, then RV may or may not look to make an immediate replacement.

It is pointless until we are 6 games into the season, and quite frankly unfair to Dodge, to make a move before that.

But, if I were RV, I'd already be going through the rolladex.

[NT71]

My $0.02 worth is that our team will come out firing on all cylinders. The special teams will have eliminated the mistakes. Thompson and Stratford (sp?) will connect several times and because of that Dunbar will begin to run wild over Army. This will be the first win of the season and coach Caneles will not run the wildcat with Riley but instead use him at flanker. Riley will score his first TD of the season.

The defense will keep Army in check because the offense will be on the field for about 45 minutes of the 60 minute game.

I look forward to watching the first victory of the season!!!!

GMG