Dodge On Top 10 Coaching Hotseat

Harry · September 17, 2010

What's interesting about this list is that Tim Brewster listed on hot seat #2 was a guy that had been mentioned as a possibility for our job before Dodge was hired. Also, has Butch Davis #4 ever really done anything? This guy has been living large off his stint as a Cowboys assistant back in the day.

Green Mean · September 17, 2010

What's interesting about this list is that Tim Brewster listed on hot seat #2 was a guy that had been mentioned as a possibility for our job before Dodge was hired. Also, has Butch Davis #4 ever really done anything? This guy has been living large off his stint as a Cowboys assistant back in the day.

Butch is a great college recruiter. Let's just say that Miami's dominance in the early part of the decade was because of Butch Davis. Look at the resurgence UNC has had the last couple of years...his recruiting is one of the best. I wish UNT had him.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Green Mean

MeanGreenTexan · September 17, 2010

What's interesting about this list is that Tim Brewster listed on hot seat #2 was a guy that had been mentioned as a possibility for our job before Dodge was hired. Also, has Butch Davis #4 ever really done anything? This guy has been living large off his stint as a Cowboys assistant back in the day.

*Beat me to it GreenMean...

Butch Davis assembled all of that talent at Miami(FL) that Coker won with. He also coached in the NFL (although his stint there was not as good). He's a heckuva coach.

Edited September 17, 2010 by MeanGreenTexan

NT91 · September 18, 2010

Butch Davis to NT

the real grad88 · September 18, 2010

Then, there's also the fact that despite the miraculous turnaround... We still fired Dickey at the first semi-viable opportunity. It wasn't exactly roses and sunshine, and the streak wasn't enough to make people (administratively or in the fan base) forget the overall track record.

And Plumm (among others) was adamant that that turnaround wasn't enough to merit the man keeping his job, that RV should have followed through on his termination instincts and forced Dickey out BEFORE that miracle run. That it would have been better for the long term health and ultimate success of our program. That even though a miracle DID happen that saved his job, Dickey was still a godawful coach who nobody wanted and only managed to "succeed" against our terrible conference mates and a very rare OOC game, usually low-grade competition.

If I had it in my signature, this is where I'd defer and point out that if a Dodge miracle DOES happen, it will now have to come almost entirely against our conference mates and possibly/hopefully an OOC game against low-grade competition.

I, too, still hope to see Dodge turn the ship around and pull off what he needs to accomplish to keep his job (and, by extension, get us back on track as a football program). But even more than that, I'd love to see a little intellectual honesty here, and perhaps an admission that we're playing by a completely different set of rules then what was vocally (remember the rants about "fishin' with Bobby Ray"?) set forth just 4 short years ago. Especially in light of the relative track records and circumstances leading up to the Moments Of Truth for each coach, as so astutely put forth by CaribbeanGreen.

One more time: I want this season to finish with 7 or more wins, and I want for all of this to be a pointless waste of virtual breath.

But if it wasn't good enough to make people forgive and forget the start (not the end, which had enough ugliness in the Flanagan situations alone to justify Dickey's termination) of the last guy's tenure... Why would it be good enough now?

I don't ask for myself. Because if and when Dodge does start winning, I will very quickly and happily put all the godawful shame of the past 3 and a quarter seasons in the past and embrace the wins and the coach leading us to them.

But I still remember what people said 4 years ago when they looked back on Dickey's inauspicious start. What does it say when the same people are now using that as the benchmark for potential success?

What? Are you serious? You would rather Dickey had been fired BEFORE the turn-around? You would rather have not had the conference championships and bowl appearances? That makes no sense. Dickey was not a horrible coach. He was a good coach who recruited some good players and coached them to greatness. I will never regret those years. Sure, things soured on him and he got down on everybody and needed to go...but to say that he didn't accomplish anything is...I don't know what to call it.

CaribbeanGreen · September 18, 2010

What? Are you serious? You would rather Dickey had been fired BEFORE the turn-around? You would rather have not had the conference championships and bowl appearances? That makes no sense. Dickey was not a horrible coach. He was a good coach who recruited some good players and coached them to greatness. I will never regret those years. Sure, things soured on him and he got down on everybody and needed to go...but to say that he didn't accomplish anything is...I don't know what to call it.

You're misunderstanding TTG's post... I believe he's referring to how some other posters viewed the situation. Regardless, I'm quite certain he feels very much the opposite (as do more and more posters as the years go by..)

PlummMeanGreen · September 18, 2010

Todd Dodge is 5-33 through 3 and a quarter seasons.

Do you realize what he's going to have to do in order to get above .500 by the middle of HIS theoretical 9th season? And I mean, just barely, one game over, skin of his teeth, bare minimum over .500.

To get there by the end of his 7th year (matching the end of the bowl run), it's even worse. He has to go 9-1 to close out this year and then go 10-2 every year for three years straight. Just to get above .500 on his career.

If that's the standard, be real about it. Everything else you wrote is somewhere between mostly and completely irrelevant to the issue CG and I were raising. Don't talk about everyone else's low standards and miserable expectations when YOU are the one who's dropping YOUR standards in this case.

Another short question: If you want Dodge out if he doesn't "cut the mustard", why do you want HIM to get his "full SBC schedule" when you didn't want that 4 years ago? And when, even with the benefit of hindsight, you changed your mind and said you didn't want it 9 years ago?
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Uh, huh? The continued support of DD's 9 year cumlative record continues to amaze more than just myself on this forum. Honestly, do you know of any other FBS school where that kind of overall performance would have been allowed to continue past 9 years? I guess the SBC with its mediocrity and its school's fans acceptance of Bottom 25 bowl teams makes so many of us on GMG.com not really like the SBC association. In case you haven't been reading, we are still considered the low of lows among all FBS leagues (except the WAC will take that monkey off our backs due to losing quality BCS Bowl Buster members & who their replacements will be).

Dickey got his full SBC schedule in 2001 with an 0 & 5 start with 4 prior years of losing and got fired/rehired at Monroe, LA, after a loss. I think we should merely give Dodge the same opportunity, but if he loses enough in SBC play this Fall to mathmatically make it impossible to meet his win criteria then its obvious that Rick V will probably need to tell TDodge his contract will not be renewed.

My barometer for success at UNT is still Hayden Fry--always has been and always will be. So just sue me for wanting to see our school be at a level where it could beat schools like Tennessee over schools like Middle Tennesse. And give me 6 years of Fry's kind of proactivity and goal-setting for UNT rather than 12 years of what we've gotten from the others who followed him.

The Tide Is High: The new stadium will probably create such a high tide that our entire ship of fans will rise right along with it (as will higher expectations for Mean Green football, too). One who has read this board a few years may wonder if some on this forum will even complain about there being a high tide because its different than anything experienced before?

GMG!

Edited September 18, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

CaribbeanGreen · September 18, 2010

.................................................

Uh, huh? The continued support of DD's 9 year cumlative record continues to amaze more than just myself on this forum. Honestly, do you know of any other FBS school where that kind of overall performance would have been allowed to continue past 9 years? I guess the SBC with its mediocrity and its school's fans acceptance of Bottom 25 bowl teams makes so many of us on GMG.com not really like the SBC association. In case you haven't been reading, we are still considered the low of lows among all FBS leagues (except the WAC will take that monkey off our backs due to losing quality BCS Bowl Buster members & who their replacements will be).

My barometer for success at UNT is still Hayden Fry--always has been and always will be. So just sue me for wanting to see our school be at a level where it could beat schools like Tennessee over schools like Middle Tennesse. And give me 6 years of Fry's kind of proactivity and goal-setting for UNT rather than 12 years of what we've gotten from the others who followed him.

While I have nothing but respect for Coach Fry, beating an exceptionally mediocre 5 loss Tennessee team (that wouldn't win more than 7 games for the next SIX SEASONS) is by no means the high water mark and standard for the history of NT football. Great moment? Sure... but not the "standard" we should aspire to. I'd argue that if you're not seduced by the logo on the helmets, it's not Top 5. The fact remains that double standards on display here simply don't hold up to any form of scrutiny... and that's okay. We're allowed to like some coaches and not others for personal reasons.

And Fry "always will be" your standard of ultimate success at NT? I hope not. I would think he would hope not as well.

Cerebus · September 18, 2010

What? Are you serious? You would rather Dickey had been fired BEFORE the turn-around? You would rather have not had the conference championships and bowl appearances? That makes no sense. Dickey was not a horrible coach. He was a good coach who recruited some good players and coached them to greatness. I will never regret those years. Sure, things soured on him and he got down on everybody and needed to go...but to say that he didn't accomplish anything is...I don't know what to call it.

Historical revisionism?

If there is one thing that makes my blood boil it's people who continually downplay the greatness of those years.