Admin-A-Fying Is Hard

[NCMeanGreen]

IF we lose to Army, should TD be fired during the season, or should RV hold up his end of the bargain and see if we can actually get to 7 wins?

[GoMeanGreen1999]

He should do whats best for the University. If it out there in the public media that he has to win 7 this year, then he should wait till it is not possible for him to win 7. But at 5-34 (loss to Army) I think most would understand if he decided to fire him after an Army loss.

[KRAM1]

Simply put...NO! I understand that most believe there is a 7 win or "good-bye" agreement with RV and Coach Dodge this season, but I would like to see Coach Dodge be given every opportunity to hit the 7 win mark, and when and if it comes to the point where 7 wins are no longer possible, well, he can make that decision, but I'd want to see him finish the season and I sure hope he would. I do not want to see any mid-season coaching changes.

[EagleMBA]

Simply put...NO! I understand that most believe there is a 7 win or "good-bye" agreement with RV and Coach Dodge this season, but I would like to see Coach Dodge be given every opportunity to hit the 7 win mark, and when and if it comes to the point where 7 wins are no longer possible, well, he can make that decision, but I'd want to see him finish the season and I sure hope he would. I do not want to see any mid-season coaching changes.

Not only NO, but HELL NO! I agree with the above 100%.

Now can we re-focus on the season ahead and an important game we have to play on Saturday?

[PlummMeanGreen]

In most businesses, firing an employee is the last resort.

Where did all the positives of our playing (most likely) the ACC's best defense with over 400 plus yards go? And our Mean Green "D" which showed signs that they could get even better after last Saturday, too?

IF...we are not too injured with our starters and if UNT can duplicate the offense as it was at Clemson and an ever-improving "D" as was shown versus Rice..........

............then why can't anyone see that we could win the flippin' Sun Belt Conference? Folks, we are "still" not in a conference that will be a BCS Bowl Buster just yet. Give this thing some time to develop this season and (guess what) if it doesn't.......we will have to hire a new HFC at UNT.

We also need to understand that TDodge was a member in very good standing with the Texas High School Football Association--do we of UNT want to make blubbering fools of ourselves by treating one of "their" own like a poor wayfarin' stranger? Not a good idea--(again)--not a good idea.

GMG!

PS: Anyone care to respond to my new signature below? If not, I will take it that you approve!

GMG!!

Edited September 16, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[untgirl04]

Simply put...NO! I understand that most believe there is a 7 win or "good-bye" agreement with RV and Coach Dodge this season, but I would like to see Coach Dodge be given every opportunity to hit the 7 win mark, and when and if it comes to the point where 7 wins are no longer possible, well, he can make that decision, but I'd want to see him finish the season and I sure hope he would. I do not want to see any mid-season coaching changes.

I agree completely that Dodge should be given every opportunity to win his 7 games. That's the deal he was promised, and even if the losses are frustrating, I believe Dodge should have the opportunity to try. However, I think it may be in the University's and football program's best interest to let Dodge go in the middle of the season if 6 wins becomes unattainable. (I say 6 wins because I could see RV giving Dodge another year with 6 wins, even if the deal is for 7 - especially with the injuries and some close losses.)

I am advocating a mid-season coaching change if necessary partially based on the debacle we had with Dickey. I'm in no way suggesting Dodge would march the team out in black uniforms - I believe he's a classy guy with integrity. However, I think it would be very difficult for the players and coaches if Dodge were to become a lame duck. You'd have a lot of challenges with conflicting loyalties, and I think it would really hurt our recruiting. If Dodge is let go during the season, it allows the University to start the new coaching search sooner and get someone in as quickly as possible. Since Dodge had to deal with a considerably shortened recruiting season during his first year (I know, it was partially of his own doing), I think he might even agree. All this being said... I really hope Dodge is able to pull it out and bring us some wins to finish out Fouts.

[KRAM1]

I agree completely that Dodge should be given every opportunity to win his 7 games. That's the deal he was promised, and even if the losses are frustrating, I believe Dodge should have the opportunity to try. However, I think it may be in the University's and football program's best interest to let Dodge go in the middle of the season if 6 wins becomes unattainable. (I say 6 wins because I could see RV giving Dodge another year with 6 wins, even if the deal is for 7 - especially with the injuries and some close losses.)

I am advocating a mid-season coaching change if necessary partially based on the debacle we had with Dickey. I'm in no way suggesting Dodge would march the team out in black uniforms - I believe he's a classy guy with integrity. However, I think it would be very difficult for the players and coaches if Dodge were to become a lame duck. You'd have a lot of challenges with conflicting loyalties, and I think it would really hurt our recruiting. If Dodge is let go during the season, it allows the University to start the new coaching search sooner and get someone in as quickly as possible. Since Dodge had to deal with a considerably shortened recruiting season during his first year (I know, it was partially of his own doing), I think he might even agree. All this being said... I really hope Dodge is able to pull it out and bring us some wins to finish out Fouts.

So, hubby's out of town and you have time to post...nice! Welcome back aboard.

[untgirl04]

So, hubby's out of town and you have time to post...nice! Welcome back aboard.

Hey, I posted on Tasty's grammar thread and the hubby was in town. It just happens to be a slow minute in the office. But don't worry, that will change, and I'll go back to my lurking.

[yyz28]

I agree completely that Dodge should be given every opportunity to win his 7 games. That's the deal he was promised, and even if the losses are frustrating, I believe Dodge should have the opportunity to try.

Does anyone actually have first hand knowledge that this is the actual DEAL, or is this just a commonly held belief around here because it has been repeated 4 billion times?

...not a shot at you untgirl, I'm just trying to get confirmation that I haven't seen yet that this deal ACTUALLY exists.

...regarding firing Dodge? ...No, you don't do that mid-season unless you intend to hand the reigns to one of the coordinators for more than the remainder of the season. You ride this horse, and then buy a new one during the off-season if need be.

[MEANGREENMAN!]

Firing football coaches midseason rarely does any good.

[ColoradoEagle]

You ride this horse, and then buy a new one during the off-season if need be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaIT2fBH8pc

[Green Mean]

I wouldn't fire him during the season because this thing needs a clean house as it is. Instead of firing Dodge, RV will if he already isn't be on the offensive of hiring the new HC which I think will be a pretty big name in the region. I think RV really wants to open the new stadium with a bang as far as on the field goes. 7 wins this season meant things were clearly on the rise but if that doesn't happen then opening the stadium with a big name/well known coach will be just as big if not bigger.

[yyz28]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaIT2fBH8pc

Nice. LOL!

[untgirl04]

Does anyone actually have first hand knowledge that this is the actual DEAL, or is this just a commonly held belief around here because it has been repeated 4 billion times?

...not a shot at you untgirl, I'm just trying to get confirmation that I haven't seen yet that this deal ACTUALLY exists.

...regarding firing Dodge? ...No, you don't do that mid-season unless you intend to hand the reigns to one of the coordinators for more than the remainder of the season. You ride this horse, and then buy a new one during the off-season if need be.

Well, there was a direct quote from Dodge in one of the FWST(?) articles at the beginning of the season where he explicitly states that he has to win 7 games. I'm not sure if it's an actual contract or a gentleman's agreement, but given the high nature of publicity (and not just on the Board) and that RV nor Dodge have publicly denied it, I'd say it's pretty likely that there's an understanding.

I understand what you're saying about a mid-season firing, but I still think it's the best course of action in this case. If I remember correctly, State of Texas requires a position be posted for a specified amount of time before it can be filled. I say, put in Canales or Deloach as the interim coach, and continue the search. The two coordinators, given their level of experience, I believe at least deserve an equal shot at the HC position if either of them are interested. If one of them turns out to be a pretty successful coach, then just make him full-time. If not, you've given them a bit of experience to put onto the resume, and you've gotten that much further ahead in your search.

[rcade]

IF we lose to Army, should TD be fired during the season, or should RV hold up his end of the bargain and see if we can actually get to 7 wins?

Even if we lose to Army, a 9-win season is possible.

My guess is that a 6 win season or a 5-3 record in conference would probably be enough to save Dodge's job.

I'm down on Dodge, but I wouldn't consider firing him until seeing how we play the first two Sun Belt games against FAU and La-Lafayette.

[Green Mean]

Well, there was a direct quote from Dodge in one of the FWST(?) articles at the beginning of the season where he explicitly states that he has to win 7 games. I'm not sure if it's an actual contract or a gentleman's agreement, but given the high nature of publicity (and not just on the Board) and that RV nor Dodge have publicly denied it, I'd say it's pretty likely that there's an understanding.

I understand what you're saying about a mid-season firing, but I still think it's the best course of action in this case. If I remember correctly, State of Texas requires a position be posted for a specified amount of time before it can be filled. I say, put in Canales or Deloach as the interim coach, and continue the search. The two coordinators, given their level of experience, I believe at least deserve an equal shot at the HC position if either of them are interested. If one of them turns out to be a pretty successful coach, then just make him full-time. If not, you've given them a bit of experience to put onto the resume, and you've gotten that much further ahead in your search.

I disagree completely. None of them should be considered as replacements. The both have done nothing to warrant HC consideration. This is a critical transition in terms of our athletic department and every move will be critical to future movement in realignment, perception, fanbase etc. RV must go after a proven commodity and somebody people know and identify with. This program has been such a dump the last 5 years that it needs something fresh quickly.

[NT71]

In most businesses, firing an employee is the last resort.

Where did all the positives of our playing (most likely) the ACC's best defense with over 400 plus yards go? And our Mean Green "D" which showed signs that they could get even better after last Saturday, too?

IF...we are not too injured with our starters and if UNT can duplicate the offense as it was at Clemson and an ever-improving "D" as was shown versus Rice..........

............then why can't anyone see that we could win the flippin' Sun Belt Conference? Folks, we are "still" not in a conference that will be a BCS Bowl Buster just yet. Give this thing some time to develop this season and (guess what) if it doesn't.......we will have to hire a new HFC at UNT.

We also need to understand that TDodge was a member in very good standing with the Texas High School Football Association--do we of UNT want to make blubbering fools of ourselves by treating one of "their" own like a poor wayfarin' stranger? Not a good idea--(again)--not a good idea.

GMG!

PS: Anyone care to respond to my new signature below? If not, I will take it that you approve!

GMG!!

PMG I totally agree that TD should be given the opportunity to finish the season. Also, RV will continue to do what is best for NT and it is his call.

[rcade]

The two coordinators, given their level of experience, I believe at least deserve an equal shot at the HC position if either of them are interested.

DeLoach hasn't done enough the second time around to be head coach after Dodge. He would only deserve consideration as coach if his defenses were playing as well as they did in the Dickey years. But if they were, Dodge would be winning and we wouldn't need a new coach. Catch 22.

[yyz28]

Well, there was a direct quote from Dodge in one of the FWST(?) articles at the beginning of the season where he explicitly states that he has to win 7 games. I'm not sure if it's an actual contract or a gentleman's agreement, but given the high nature of publicity (and not just on the Board) and that RV nor Dodge have publicly denied it, I'd say it's pretty likely that there's an understanding.

The actual quote was from Dodge and it was "Six wins won't get it done." There is, however, no direct indication that 7 games is a mandate from the AD, or if that is simply the bar that Dodge believe he must clear in order to see this season as a success.

To the point - if we have a 12 game season, that means until we've lost 5 games, the possibility of winning 7 still remains. If there IS a deal in place, you ABSOLUTELY don't fire the man until the deal is unreachable.

While firing the coach mid season might satisfy some fans who are looking to gnaw on raw meat, the disruption to the team and the message that sends to the players, especially the seniors who have played for this man since they were Freshman, who CAME HERE to play for him, is not the message we should be sending. A choice was made last year to give Dodge the full 4 years to make it happen. Even if you know he's not going to return after the 5th game of the season, you let the man finish his season, say good-bye to his players.

We may look back and see Todd Dodge as a poor football coach, but I believe the VAST majority here feel that he has done a lot of good for the program, even if it hasn't translated to the number of wins we all want to see, and the University should treat him with respect even if it is in his release. ...he may return to being the winningest high-school coach in the state. No need to create bad blood. No need to burn a bridge.

[NCMeanGreen]

Even if we lose to Army, a 9-win season is possible.

My guess is that a 6 win season or a 5-3 record in conference would probably be enough to save Dodge's job.

I'm down on Dodge, but I wouldn't consider firing him until seeing how we play the first two Sun Belt games against FAU and La-Lafayette.

Yeah...I believe in Santa Clause...Unicorns....and magical fairy dust too...HA!

[Green Dozer]

If we are 0-3, then how do you not also blame Deloach or Canales? Deloach has had full authority over the defense since he returned. One poster says he witnessed 200+ tackling drills at UNT's practice, and though the tackling technique was wrong, he did not see any of the defensive coaches correct it. And according to a few here on this board, Canales has the last say on most of the offensive game planning. So, how is firing Dodge going to improve this team that dramatically? Please save the argument that you fire him just because he is the head coach. Firing him is not going to get more depth on an injured offensive line or replace an injured corner. I just have not seen that he has hindered these two coaches enough over the changes in the off season and in the first two games for him to take the wrap all by himself. The other coaches have to be held accountable as well.

I like Deloach. I do not think he is working any less harder than he did before, but he also does not have the talent on this defense nor the depth that he did before he left either. With the resume that Deloach has, he would have already been a head coach by this time if he really wanted to, and my understanding is he does not want to be a head coach. As for Canales, there is a reason why he has not been one either. Remember also, several men before Dodge have all tried to right this ship with not much more to show.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Green Dozer

[Mean Green 93-98]

The actual quote was from Dodge and it was "Six wins won't get it done." There is, however, no direct indication that 7 games is a mandate from the AD, or if that is simply the bar that Dodge believe he must clear in order to see this season as a success.

I don't have the (time/motivation/Internet competence - pick one) to find the quotes, but it is pretty clear that RV gave Dodge a 7-win ultimatum. I could still see him coming back for another 2 years if he gets 6 wins + a Sun Belt championship or win over K-State, but I don't think his return is guaranteed with anything less than 7 wins.

[untgirl04]

The actual quote was from Dodge and it was "Six wins won't get it done." There is, however, no direct indication that 7 games is a mandate from the AD, or if that is simply the bar that Dodge believe he must clear in order to see this season as a success.

To the point - if we have a 12 game season, that means until we've lost 5 games, the possibility of winning 7 still remains. If there IS a deal in place, you ABSOLUTELY don't fire the man until the deal is unreachable.

While firing the coach mid season might satisfy some fans who are looking to gnaw on raw meat, the disruption to the team and the message that sends to the players, especially the seniors who have played for this man since they were Freshman, who CAME HERE to play for him, is not the message we should be sending. A choice was made last year to give Dodge the full 4 years to make it happen. Even if you know he's not going to return after the 5th game of the season, you let the man finish his season, say good-bye to his players.

We may look back and see Todd Dodge as a poor football coach, but I believe the VAST majority here feel that he has done a lot of good for the program, even if it hasn't translated to the number of wins we all want to see, and the University should treat him with respect even if it is in his release. ...he may return to being the winningest high-school coach in the state. No need to create bad blood. No need to burn a bridge.

Regardless of the actual quote in this article or any other, if there is an implied ultimatum for 7 games and RV does not come out and deny it, then he has passively confirmed it. Regardless of if it is or isn't an actual obligation, the perception is there, and likely there in the eyes of the team as well. So you're telling me that if we go (heaven forbid) 0-6, it won't disrupt the team if he's a lame duck. What message does it send to the players (who came to play not just for him, but for the chance to play for a D1 school and for the scholarship)? That the University is serious about competing, and that consistent failure to produce will result in consequences? That in the real world, success is measured by productivity? In the real world, it's employment at will, and that means you can be hired or fired regardless of how good a person you are?

I don't dispute that Todd Dodge has been an asset to the program. He has been nothing but respectful of the university and of the administration. He has carried himself with poise despite the negative press. You couldn't ask for a better coach for football PR. However, this is ultimately about financial sustainability. And in this day and age, to make a lot of money in football, you have to win.

[All About UNT]

The Spread is now 4 to 5 points in Army's favor (depends on the site you look at)....I wonder if the Thompson announcement/solidification pushed it more in our favor? Also....UT is only favored by 4 at this point against Tech and I smell upset in the works!

[untgirl04]

If we are 0-3, then how do you not also blame Deloach or Canales? Deloach has had full authority over the defense since he returned. One poster says he witnessed 200+ tackling drills at UNT's practice, and though the tackling technique was wrong, he did not see any of the defensive coaches correct it. And according to a few here on this board, Canales has the last say on most of the offensive game planning. So, how is firing Dodge going to improve this team that dramatically? Please save the argument that you fire him just because he is the head coach. Firing him is not going to get more depth on an injured offensive line or replace an injured corner. I just have not seen that he has hindered these two coaches enough over the changes in the off season and in the first two games for him to take the wrap all by himself. The other coaches have to be held accountable as well.

I like Deloach. I do not think he is working any less harder than he did before, but he also does not have the talent on this defense nor the depth that he did before he left either. With the resume that Deloach has, he would have already been a head coach by this time if he really wanted to, and my understanding is he does not want to be a head coach. As for Canales, there is a reason why he has not been one either. Remember also, several men before Dodge have all tried to right this ship with not much more to show.

I'm not suggesting that we name either Canales or Deloach immediate head coach. Like you, I've also head that he's not interested in the position. But just because neither Canales nor Deloach has been an HC before, doesn't mean that they have never applied for an HC position. I said that I thought they should be given the opportunity to be interim IF one of them is interested in it. I agree that you have to put blame on Deloach and Canales both for some of the loss.

You don't fire Dodge because it's going to make an immediate improvement in the team. You fire him so that you can publicly start the search for his replacement. I think neither Deloach nor Canales are likely to become the next HC, and I think it's likely both will be gone if or when a new HC is hired. But to maintain some sort of consistency during the season, I think one of the assistants should take over.