A Break From Planning Dodge's Demise

[emmitt01]

Anyone wanna tell me the WAC isnt dead in the water and knows it?

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2010/09/13/bmurphy/report_wac_files_lawsuit_against_mountain_west_fresno_state_and_

[PlummMeanGreen]

Anyone wanna tell me the WAC isnt dead in the water and knows it?

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2010/09/13/bmurphy/report_wac_files_lawsuit_against_mountain_west_fresno_state_and_

I would have loved a WAC with an eastern coalition of select schools had Boise State stayed but...

.....the WAC funeral is one I'd really like to DJ. I've got some great classic funeral dirge selections I've just downloaded from I-Tunes. Wonder if the Singing Priests doing their Greatest Gregorian Chant Hits would fit the occasion, too? I suppose Karl Benson would be the most emotional at this gig for sure.

RIP,WAC...(we hardly knew ya')

GMG!

Edited September 15, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[CMJ]

I think the Lacrimosa movement from Mozart's Requiem Mass would be fitting Plumm.

[VideoEagle]

I think the Lacrimosa movement from Mozart's Requiem Mass would be fitting Plumm.

Yes! That would be perfect!

[Stix]

Mozart: "Confutatis maledictis" - when the wicked are confounded. "Flammis Acribus Adictis." How would you translate that?

Salieri: Consigned to flames of woe.

Mozart: Do you believe in it?

Salieri: What?

Mozart: A fire which never dies, burning you forever?

Salieri: Oh yes.

[chrisfisher]

Personally, if what the WAC says is true, and the teams agreed not to leave for 5 years and then left... I would force them to honor the agreement as other schools in WAC had too.

[stebo]

But that was not the agreement. The agreement was that the schools would stay together for 5 years IF (and the key word is IF) ... IF the Wac added BYU by Sept 1 as a member for all sports sans football. If BYU had joined, they would owe the money. BYU did not join, so they are off the hook. What the WAC is trying to do with this lawsuit is hold onto the teams until 2012. This has nothing to do with the other MOU. And that is key. Why does the Wac want them to stick around until 2012? Well, they don't. But they want compensation for them leaving. And that is what this lawsuit it about. A settlement. They can then take that money and spread it around to try and hold onto the remaining members. But if one more leaves, they are no longer a conference in the eyes of the NCAA. That means no auto bid to ANY championship event. No bid to the Big Dance. Nothing, nada, zilch. And then it becomes impossible to lure some crappy start up like UTSA to take their place because even a desperate school would rather be safe than sorry. The Wac is dead. They will not recover from this. Montana is their only hope and they aren't saying a word. This is nearly an identical situation to the Big West when NT joined. All the quality had left and they were scrambling around picking up IA wannabes to stay alive. Ugly picture. Makes the Belt look like a secure conference. Thank God we didn't join that sinking ship (and I was one of the ones wanting to join!)

[CMJ]

Mozart: "Confutatis maledictis" - when the wicked are confounded. "Flammis Acribus Adictis." How would you translate that?

Salieri: Consigned to flames of woe.

Mozart: Do you believe in it?

Salieri: What?

Mozart: A fire which never dies, burning you forever?

Salieri: Oh yes.

Different movement, but frickin' awesome scene. One of my favorite films.

[Stix]

Different movement, but frickin' awesome scene. One of my favorite films.

Yes, I should have made that clear. But it does sum up the future of the remaining WAC schools, especially Idaho.

[NT80]

Anyone wanna tell me the WAC isnt dead in the water and knows it?

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2010/09/13/bmurphy/report_wac_files_lawsuit_against_mountain_west_fresno_state_and_

Benson is out of work if the WAC folds. The leftover schools would be forced into Indy status unless the SBC were to take a couple. Is WW on the phone to NMSU and La Tech? Benson will find some FCS replacements (Montana, UTSA, Tx St.-SM) and they will limp on.

[GrayEagle]

Not sure where you were going with this. Yes, we realize that the WAC is in a death mode.

If you are trying to criticize those of us that supported entry into the WAC remember most, if not all, suggested that before Boise left. We also advocated a 12 team league.

I still believe that a conference composed of Boise State, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii, San Jose State, Idaho, Utah State, New Mexico State, Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State and North Texas would be considerably better than whatever the Sun Belt can become.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Not sure where you were going with this. Yes, we realize that the WAC is in a death mode.

If you are trying to criticize those of us that supported entry into the WAC remember most, if not all, suggested that before Boise left. We also advocated a 12 team league.

I still believe that a conference composed of Boise State, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii, San Jose State, Idaho, Utah State, New Mexico State, Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State and North Texas would be considerably better than whatever the Sun Belt can become.

Jack, I've know you for well over 30 years now and your aforementioned league (had Boise stayed) would have been UNT's nirvana and yet another thing we agree on. And yes, many of us were pushing the idea of checking all that out with the WAC with an eastern coalition but we all immidiately ceased our prior interest in all that about the same day Boise announced it would be leaving the WAC.

The La Tech situation will be most interesting to watch. Outside of Dwayne of Minden, they have some very stubborn people over there--almost too stubborn to function for the long term good of their athletic program.

Yes, the SBC was a "throw together" league at one time, but now many of us have (or will have) new stadiums and one of these years we are going to advance one of our teams (hopefully us) to do what Boise State did. I don't know why so many of our elect don't think we can't do what our ex Big West sister school has done; that is, their BCS Bowl Busting successes! I pull for the BSU Broncos every game they play.

No matter who our coach is, UNT must start winning the SBC but we need to do so as a Top 25 school--nothing else is acceptable because we saw what 4 NO Bowls and a dollar bill got us, now didn't we? And no, I am not detracting the positive worth of those bowl games at the time of our athletic history that they happened, either.

GMG!

PS: To the other above posters, I am duly impressed with all your musicology. Of course, we all did attend the University of North Texas, right?

One of my UNT College of Music classes with icon Fessor' Floyd Graham was a most informative trip through the very beginnings of the music program at North Texas; after all, Fessor' had been on the UNT staff since 1928!

I only wish I could have had a class with Maurice McAdow, our former Marching Band/Green Brigade director. I miss his original fanfare to our school song to be honest about it. I think ex Green Brigade director, ie, the late Robert A. Winslow took out that fanfare his first year at UNT--which was Fry's 2'nd year at UNT best I recollect.

You Young Gun UNT Alums listen to us older f@rts every once in a while, we do have some UNT history & vignettes to impart on this forum from time to time. AND.....if you get real lucky, we will post some of those old "Norm Dad Jokes", too.

GMG!

Edited September 15, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[emmitt01]

Not sure where you were going with this. Yes, we realize that the WAC is in a death mode.

If you are trying to criticize those of us that supported entry into the WAC remember most, if not all, suggested that before Boise left. We also advocated a 12 team league.

I still believe that a conference composed of Boise State, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii, San Jose State, Idaho, Utah State, New Mexico State, Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State and North Texas would be considerably better than whatever the Sun Belt can become.

No, not criticizing anyone. Just showing that Benson has now reached "lashing out" mode, the step just before acceptance.

[rcade]

I still believe that a conference composed of Boise State, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii, San Jose State, Idaho, Utah State, New Mexico State, Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State and North Texas would be considerably better than whatever the Sun Belt can become.

Aside from Boise State, none of the western schools in your scenario would help us. They'd be long travel and late TV times. So it's really New Mexico State, two Louisiana schools and Arkansas State that would be our eastern-division rivals.

I don't see how they're better than the Sun Belt. The southeast is a better region for us than the west. It's also a better football region.

I just wish we had some in-state conference rivals. Even UTSA and Texas State.

[Cerebus]

Aside from Boise State, none of the western schools in your scenario would help us. They'd be long travel and late TV times. So it's really New Mexico State, two Louisiana schools and Arkansas State that would be our eastern-division rivals.

I don't see how they're better than the Sun Belt. The southeast is a better region for us than the west. It's also a better football region.

I just wish we had some in-state conference rivals. Even UTSA and Texas State.

• We are already in a conference with ASU and UL.
• While I would like to play NMSU again, they are actually about as far away as Troy and almost exactly as far away as MTSU.
• La Tech is going to have to go somewhere when the WAC implodes, let wait and pick them up then.
• If NMSU wanted in at that time, let them in also, they would probably search west, that is where they regionally fit.
• If I can avoid bi yearly trips to Boise, Reno, Fresno, San Jose, Logan and the Kibbie Dome, I will do so. I can't afford those trips to Hawaii, maybe people with rich wives like John Denver can, but I can't.
• Bullet points are awesome.

[MeanGreenTeeth]

But that was not the agreement. The agreement was that the schools would stay together for 5 years IF (and the key word is IF) ... IF the Wac added BYU by Sept 1 as a member for all sports sans football. If BYU had joined, they would owe the money. BYU did not join, so they are off the hook.

That's actually not true. The agreement stated that the agreement would be terminated if BYU didn't join Sept 1. The contract was not voided and was in effect prior to Sept 1. This makes perfect sense if you think about it. You can't sign a contract contingent on an event occurring and then by your actions sabotage that very event. The only thing that is not clear to me is if only the first school who announced leaving would be liable or if both would be liable (technically the agreement terminated, I think, when an existing member other than Boise State or LA Tech left).

But yes, I do agree the WAC is most likely dead.

Edited September 15, 2010 by MeanGreenTeeth

[stebo]

I don't believe that you are correct. Here is the exact wording - and all of this is contingent upon BYU joining the WAC for all sports except football by Sept 1. BYU did not join the WAC, they joined the WCC. BYU did enter into a scheduling agreement with the WAC for football games (much like the MOU that the Belt has with the MAC). But the terms of this resolution are very clear - it is void if BYU did not join the WAC. Just because two schools chose to accept invites to another conference, doesn't change the resolution at all. If BYU had accepted the offer to join the WAC for all sports except football before Sept 1st, those schools would be on the hook. Actually - Fresno would be on the hook for the $5 million. They accepted first, which voided the agreement for Nevada to accept without penalty - but neither penalty applies because the Cougars joined the WCC. This lawsuit is specifically about the 2012 season - and they will settle. Just watch. In case you would like to read the exact resolution and have any questions, I have pasted it below (Public Record).

Western Athletic Conference (WAC) Corporate Resolution

Whereas, the Western Athletic Conference (WAC) is a corporate entity formed for the purposes of establishing and organizing athletic competitions among its members which include the following universities: Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Idaho, Louisiana Tech, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Jose State, and Utah State; and, Whereas, Boise State has given notice of its withdrawal from the conference in accordance with Article II, Section 7 of the bylaws and consequently has forfeited its right to be present at meetings of the Board of Directors when matters relating to prospective new member institutions, or to institutions that have accepted invitations to join the conference, are being discussed pursuant to Article III, Section 5; and,Whereas, the members of the WAC wish to enter into an agreement with Brigham Young University (BYU); and,

Whereas, BYU and the WAC have been pursuing negotiations for the specific terms and conditions under which BYU will enter into a contract with the WAC; and,Whereas, in order for BYU to proceed with termination of its current affiliation with the Mountain West Conference it needs certain minimum assurances from the WAC; and, Whereas, the WAC wishes to take steps to make such minimum assurances to BYU so that a contract with BYU may be completed:

It is therefore resolved as follows:

1. The current bylaws and rules and regulations of the WAC shall remain in full force and effect. To the extent this resolution is in conflict with the current bylaws and/or rules and regulations, this resolution will prevail.

2. The members of the WAC who have attended this telephonic conference conducted at 11 a.m. mountain standard time August 13, 2010 hereby waive notice of the meeting and acknowledge that the actions taken at this meeting are fully binding and effective on all members of the WAC.

3. The terms of this resolution shall become effective immediately. It is understood that the agreement regarding athletic seasons contemplated with BYU will extend through the time frame July 1, 2011 through June 30, 2016 or as extended, or if terminated in accordance with paragraphs 4 and 5 herein.

4. The WAC and its members and BYU, agree that all current members of the WAC (except Louisiana Tech and Boise State, which has already given notice of its withdrawal) will not join any other conference or athletic conference from the date of adoption of this resolution through June 30, 2016, contingent upon BYU agreeing that it will not join any other conference or athletic conference from the date of entering a contract with the WAC through June 30, 2016.

5. Any WAC member (except Louisiana Tech or Boise State) or BYU shall pay a penalty of $5 million in the event it violates the terms of paragraph 4 herein unless the conference that is joined has current (as of the time joined) automatic access for its league champion into the bowl championship series (BCS). Said payment will be made within 60 days from demand from the WAC.

6. In the event that any current WAC member, (except Louisiana Tech or Boise State), or BYU leaves the WAC in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 5 herein, the terms of this resolution are terminated.

7. To the extent that adoption of this resolution constitutes an amendment of the bylaws, this board approves such amendment(s) and the required vote of 3/4 has been met in order to make this resolution and any such amendments enforceable.

8. Karl Benson, the Commissioner and President of the WAC, is hereby authorized to proceed with continued negotiations regarding the specific terms of the contract with BYU for consideration by this Board.

9. In the event that no written agreement is executed by BYU on or before September 1, 2010, which agreement will include the obligations contained in paragraphs 3-6 of this Resolution and any additional provisions agreed to by this Board, then this Resolution is terminated.

10. A roll call has been conducted and__________ out of eight authorized voters have approved this resolution and therefore:

This resolution is adopted this 13th day of August 2010.

Edited September 16, 2010 by stebo

[rcade]

Now that the WAC has sued two programs that are leaving, what message does that send to teams that might consider joining the conference? The WAC is now the jilted girl who stalks her ex-boyfriends. Who would go out with her?

[PlummMeanGreen]

I am a fan of the enlarged letter--thanks, stebo!

GMG!

[UNT90]

Now that the WAC has sued two programs that are leaving, what message does that send to teams that might consider joining the conference? The WAC is now the jilted girl who stalks her ex-boyfriends. Who would go out with her?

Depends on how good looking she is. The WAC is in Ruth Buzzy territory right now. If they are serious about Texas St. and UTSA, this can mean only good things for the belt. The WAC will become the FBS admittance conference and the Sun Belt moves up the chain by matter of default.

[NT1978]

Depends on how good looking she is. The WAC is in Ruth Buzzy territory right now. If they are serious about Texas St. and UTSA, this can mean only good things for the belt. The WAC will become the FBS admittance conference and the Sun Belt moves up the chain by matter of default.

Ruth Buzzi is married to an alum of UNT.

[Stix]

Ruth Buzzi is married to an alum of UNT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Buzzi

I knew this (I have the video - Richard Moll of "Night Court" fame is also in it):

Buzzi played the wife of her close friend Kinky Friedman in the satirical music video "Get your Biscuits in the Oven and your Buns in the Bed."

But I didn't know this:

Buzzi now lives primarily in Southlake, Texas and enjoys spending time with her husband (a retired businessman) at their 220-acre ranch just west of Fort Worth, Texas where they raise Black Angus cattle and quarter horses; she has a horse named Gladys, a cat named Ratso Rizzo, and her hobby is painting.

Oh no, another Southlake connection!

[MeanGreenTeeth]

To be honest, I think the agreement is very poorly drafted. I'm not a lawyer and if you are Stebo I'll defer to your judgement. To me though the outcome is very silly. Your reading is that if BYU joined the conference they'd owe the money. Since they didn't they don't. However, the whole reason that BYU didn't join is because those 2 schools left (which defeated the purpose of the contract). My reading is that the contract was in effect prior to BYU joining and only "terminated" (did not "void") the contract when they did not join (or when the schools left which is what actually happened). I think section 9 clarifies the ambiguity of section 4.

It's probably moot though as there probably won't be a WAC soon.

Edited September 16, 2010 by MeanGreenTeeth

[rcade]

Depends on how good looking she is.

I knew someone would say that. We are kindred spirits. I always had a weakness for "somewhat crazy."

[Green Mean]

Now that the WAC has sued two programs that are leaving, what message does that send to teams that might consider joining the conference? The WAC is now the jilted girl who stalks her ex-boyfriends. Who would go out with her?

For UTSA and TSU, the WAC is a step up and has a pie that tastes good because it gets to their goal of being FBS. I am guessing if they join the WAC, the SBC will steal those two to join the SBC. The WAC is simply their foot in the door.