Karim York

[Army of Dad]

...Seriously, how does playing UNT help SMU in any way? Quit w/the kneejerk garbage responses and give me one reason SMU should play UNT

I agree, attendance would be fantastic. I love it, if only b/c I'm dying to see both teams in big time environments. That said, why does SMU care about a few extra bucks, if it puts their ass on the line? They don't, and have the money not to care. Give me something better than a few extra bucks on the spreadsheet

Well you went from wanting one reason to answering your own question then claiming that isn't a good enough reason. With double talk like that you sound more like a politician than an industry 'insider'! Though if this is your logic then everything you say could change in (checks your post times) about eight minutes.

[Censored by Laurie]

You guys are the homers here, not me.

Of course we are, champ...it's a North Texas fan board. Did you not notice all the green?

And hell yes, we're defensive...especially here in the basketball forum as we look on at the successful program JJ IS BUILDING (notice tense) despite years of mis-managing administration and without the luxury of an old-money alumni provided endowment.

I told you very clearly how to post...and that if you adhered to my recommendations your insight would be more than welcomed. But ya didn't. Instead you went with the same, tired rhetoric I've heard for the past 10 years from the same cocky-for-absolutely-no-reason SMU fan...some false, misguided sense of superiority on all planes simply b/c your school costs more and has more money at the ready. Yawn. Get something new.

And when you get it...use it some place else. Just not here.

[GrandGreen]

You guys are the homers here, not me. That's SMU's AD stance on scheduling UNT, and it's not really up for debate. SMU has nothing to gain by playing, and possibly losing to a local, its that simple. It doesn't matter how many tourneys UNT has been to recently, b/c SMU is the more profile program & job nationally, always will be. They have too much money, and are considered a sleeping giant in industry circles. Better conference affiliation etc. I know, I talk to coaches & reps every single day. You folks know just as well as I do, that they are going to go big next hire and will have a slew of high end coaching options. Can you say that when JJ hauls?

When UNT is in the position to deny SMU a game, I hope they do so. I'm all about playing all comers, but get over yourselves. You wouldn't definitely beat SMU, nor would Vegas even favor you if it was at Moody. UNT would be a very average CUSA team, just like SMU. I'm all about logical discourse, but the fact you guys think you're vastly better than SMU, mostly b/c you've achieved some success in a lesser league, stinks of polyanna.

Seriously, how does playing UNT help SMU in any way? Quit w/the kneejerk garbage responses and give me one reason SMU should play UNT

I wonder why SMU should play anyone? I always like the guys with all the inside dope, SMU is a sleeping giant, better conference affiliation! Where do you envision SMU; because I can't see SMU moving up anywhere, is the ACC calling? CUSA is a step above the Belt, but that step is a lot smaller than you seem to think.

I do really like your confidence that SMU will always be a higher profile program than NT. Do you also feel that UT, Tex. Tech, Baylor, TCU and about a hundred other athletic programs will always be of a higher profile than SMU?

I will end with a knee-jerk answer to why NT should play SMU. It is a game that I would like to see and I would think there are a lot of others would also. I'm not sure why a competitive game against a local opponent has be justified beyond that.

[HoopManX]

Never understood why the four metroplex teams don't play every year. The ole "nothing to gain" argument has always been stupid but now it is down right ridiculous. What has SMU got to gain from playing Florida Gulf Coast, Texas State or Occidental? At a time when it is very difficult to get a descent home schedule because none of the big time programs want to play away, it makes great sense to establish local rivalries and play home and away series that local fans can all go to.

The basic truth is that SMU, TCU and North Texas all need attendance boosts and all could do much better in recruiting local talent. I fail to see how TCU and SMU avoiding NT accomplishes anything for their programs. Wouldn't it be great, if the four local schools actually formed a type of allegiance to build up rivalries and promote local college basketball. Maybe if they did they could get some casual fans to actually take interest and attend a local game instead watching UT or the Mavericks on TV. Also with more local interest, it might be possible to kept a few more of the great basketball players this area spawned here.

grand, I agree w/your take, but its not happening anywhere anymore. in the past, there was a Big 4 tourney in Carolina, but it went away. None of the teams in DC, on a similar level, will touch each other. Same w/Philly etc. Playing locals in death matches is a lost art, not just SMU. You don't see Maryland & Gtown playing each other, or even Gtown & George Washington.

SMU gains victories by playing scrubs. Victories are more important to that programs perception, than putting their butt on the line vs. a local. SMU pays lip service to local recruiting, but they've never recruited the Metroplex, short of the Sasser class in the 90s. Increasing exposure locally means actually knocking off A&M or UT, not playing UNT. They basically want to schedule down, so their OOC schedule features a bunch of Ws. Then, when conference rolls around, they can capitalize on record to fill seats. They are hopeful no one will remember who those victories were against lol. Sad but true. FWIW, I don't agree w/how they schedule, but freaking CUSA sent out a memo to every program to schedule down. Its not just SMU. Scheduling up makes average leagues a one bid league

[HoopManX]

I wonder why SMU should play anyone? I always like the guys with all the inside dope, SMU is a sleeping giant, better conference affiliation! Where do you envision SMU; because I can't see SMU moving up anywhere, is the ACC calling? CUSA is a step above the Belt, but that step is a lot smaller than you seem to think.

I do really like your confidence that SMU will always be a higher profile program than NT. Do you also feel that UT, Tex. Tech, Baylor, TCU and about a hundred other athletic programs will always be of a higher profile than SMU?

I will end with a knee-jerk answer to why NT should play SMU. It is a game that I would like to see and I would think there are a lot of others would also. I'm not sure why a competitive game against a local opponent has be justified beyond that.

SMU has been in leagues w/those programs in the past. They may be again. That's a far different situation than UNT, who offers no market, no money, average facilities etc.

I agree, I'd like to see everyone play as well. Unlike some of you, I just understand why they aren't playing

[HoopManX]

Well you went from wanting one reason to answering your own question then claiming that isn't a good enough reason. With double talk like that you sound more like a politician than an industry 'insider'! Though if this is your logic then everything you say could change in (checks your post times) about eight minutes.

Id love to see the game, but attendance for one game doesn't mean much to SMU. That's the reality. If a little extra revenue is all you can offer, it's not happening

[Travis]

, average facilities etc.

You must think moody colliseum is a real shit hole then.

[UNTLifer]

You guys are the homers here, not me. That's SMU's AD stance on scheduling UNT, and it's not really up for debate. SMU has nothing to gain by playing, and possibly losing to a local, its that simple. It doesn't matter how many tourneys UNT has been to recently, b/c SMU is the more profile program & job nationally, always will be. They have too much money, and are considered a sleeping giant in industry circles. Better conference affiliation etc. I know, I talk to coaches & reps every single day. You folks know just as well as I do, that they are going to go big next hire and will have a slew of high end coaching options. Can you say that when JJ hauls?

When UNT is in the position to deny SMU a game, I hope they do so. I'm all about playing all comers, but get over yourselves. You wouldn't definitely beat SMU, nor would Vegas even favor you if it was at Moody. UNT would be a very average CUSA team, just like SMU. I'm all about logical discourse, but the fact you guys think you're vastly better than SMU, mostly b/c you've achieved some success in a lesser league, stinks of polyanna.

Seriously, how does playing UNT help SMU in any way? Quit w/the kneejerk garbage responses and give me one reason SMU should play UNT

UNT is in the position to deny SMU a game. We are the better program right now. If money makes a team a sleeping giant then why isn't Harvard a high profile job? What about Rice? They aren't because neither has had much success in their history outside of SMU during the years they were buying football players and I'm sure basketball players as well.

SMU won't play us because they don't want to get hammered and have to live with that hanging over their heads. Outside of Memphis, CUSA is on pretty even ground with most of the Sun Belt schools.

SMU is going to have "a slew of high end coaching options?" I think Coach Doh was considered high end at the time of his hiring. Look at the facts:

RPI: North Texas wins.

Facilities: North Texas by a mile.

Recent History: North Texas by a mile.

Current Coaching: North Texas by a mile.

Future Growth Potential: North Texas by a mile.

[ColoradoEagle]

You must think moody colliseum is a real shit hole then.

That was my first thought. Had my HS graduation there, and that place was an absolute dump. Even TCU's bubble is better.

[ColoradoEagle]

SMU has been in leagues w/those programs in the past. They may be again. That's a far different situation than UNT, who offers no market...

It's like you're from an alternate universe where SMU is relevant.

Edited September 9, 2010 by ColoradoEagle

[GrandGreen]

SMU has been in leagues w/those programs in the past. They may be again. That's a far different situation than UNT, who offers no market, no money, average facilities etc.

I agree, I'd like to see everyone play as well. Unlike some of you, I just understand why they aren't playing

Well lets see NT has been in a league with Louisville, Memphis, and Cincinnati.; so I guess we should also live in that past.

I am really puzzled by your contention that UNT offers no money, no market and average facilities. The fact is that UNT is in the exact same market as SMU without the I think unfair rich privilege stigma of SMU. In addition, with the completion of the new stadium: NT will compare very well with SMU's facilities; there is no doubt the SPit is better than Moody. As far as money, I assume SMU will always have rich benefactors willing to try to buy success either legally or not. However, there may not be the operating budget difference that you think. Adjust for the difference in tuition build into the always questionable athletic budget numbers and factor in the huge difference in enrollments and the effect of newly enacted student athletic fees at NT and that advantage may not be as great as you may think and could very well close over time.

[cwb]

I think SMUt and La Tech should start their own two team conference since they are both so great if you ask them.

And facilities? Moody? Really?

[Travis]

I think SMUt and La Tech should start their own two team conference since they are both so great if you ask them.

And facilities? Moody? Really?

When he said we have average facilities (implying that SMU's were better) then I obviously knew he was either way to biased or doesn't know what he is talking about. It may be a bit of both, because Moody really sucks. I like Sam Houston State's basketball arena over SMU's.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Travis

[Travis]

I am really puzzled by your contention that UNT offers no money, no market and average facilities. The fact is that UNT is in the exact same market as SMU without the I think unfair rich privilege stigma of SMU. In addition, with the completion of the new stadium: NT will compare very well with SMU's facilities; there is no doubt the SPit is better than Moody. As far as money, I assume SMU will always have rich benefactors willing to try to buy success either legally or not. However, there may not be the operating budget difference that you think. Adjust for the difference in tuition build into the always questionable athletic budget numbers and factor in the huge difference in enrollments and the effect of newly enacted student athletic fees at NT and that advantage may not be as great as you may think and could very well close over time.

Since we are in the context of basketball, bringing up football facilities is a logical fallacy that doesn't have anything to do with basketball talk. Which makes me assume he is referring to the two colliseums. If that were the case then it is hard to give credibility to what he says since he refuses to look at things objectively.

[Green Mean]

You guys are the homers here, not me. That's SMU's AD stance on scheduling UNT, and it's not really up for debate. SMU has nothing to gain by playing, and possibly losing to a local, its that simple. It doesn't matter how many tourneys UNT has been to recently, b/c SMU is the more profile program & job nationally, always will be. They have too much money, and are considered a sleeping giant in industry circles. Better conference affiliation etc. I know, I talk to coaches & reps every single day. You folks know just as well as I do, that they are going to go big next hire and will have a slew of high end coaching options. Can you say that when JJ hauls?

When UNT is in the position to deny SMU a game, I hope they do so. I'm all about playing all comers, but get over yourselves. You wouldn't definitely beat SMU, nor would Vegas even favor you if it was at Moody. UNT would be a very average CUSA team, just like SMU. I'm all about logical discourse, but the fact you guys think you're vastly better than SMU, mostly b/c you've achieved some success in a lesser league, stinks of polyanna.

Seriously, how does playing UNT help SMU in any way? Quit w/the kneejerk garbage responses and give me one reason SMU should play UNT

Once again your head is in your ass. SMU is NOT the high profile job. Last year had UNT dished out 2 million a year to June Jones with the new stadium coming, guess what, he would have come here. You are making it sound like people are dying to come to SMU....that is far from the truth. SMU is known for having money...that's wonderful but nobody considers SMU a sleeping giant. They could be a very formidable athletics school but not a sleeping giant. I mean dude even in your so called hey day was SMU never a giant.

As far as conference affiliation, you may move up to the MWC but I don't think a BCS conference will come calling because they will invite TCU over SMU in a NY minute. Oh and yes to get into the MWC TCU has to sign off on it which is not a given.

Ok so the next hire is going be a big high profile name...well that is great too but basketball is a little bit different. You don't have to have a high profile or major up and comer to turn things around in basketball. There are hundreds of very good coaches in D1 basketball that would be a great hire should JJ leave for a better/high profile job.

Now on to your blowhard comment where there is no way of UNT beating SMU in basketball....are you effing kidding me? Why can't you just admit that NT is the better basketball program right now? I mean jeez put your ego aside for just a minute and just accept that NT is more successful than SMU in basketball. You say that we would be average in CUSA...well that still tops you because you guys are the bottom feeders of the basketball conference.

And once again I am questioning the great education you received from SMU....if someone has to tell you the benefits of local D1 universities playing each other in sports then seriously you're a moron.

[HoopManX]

Once again your head is in your ass. SMU is NOT the high profile job. Last year had UNT dished out 2 million a year to June Jones with the new stadium coming, guess what, he would have come here. You are making it sound like people are dying to come to SMU....that is far from the truth. SMU is known for having money...that's wonderful but nobody considers SMU a sleeping giant. They could be a very formidable athletics school but not a sleeping giant. I mean dude even in your so called hey day was SMU never a giant.

As far as conference affiliation, you may move up to the MWC but I don't think a BCS conference will come calling because they will invite TCU over SMU in a NY minute. Oh and yes to get into the MWC TCU has to sign off on it which is not a given.

Ok so the next hire is going be a big high profile name...well that is great too but basketball is a little bit different. You don't have to have a high profile or major up and comer to turn things around in basketball. There are hundreds of very good coaches in D1 basketball that would be a great hire should JJ leave for a better/high profile job.

Now on to your blowhard comment where there is no way of UNT beating SMU in basketball....are you effing kidding me? Why can't you just admit that NT is the better basketball program right now? I mean jeez put your ego aside for just a minute and just accept that NT is more successful than SMU in basketball. You say that we would be average in CUSA...well that still tops you because you guys are the bottom feeders of the basketball conference.

And once again I am questioning the great education you received from SMU....if someone has to tell you the benefits of local D1 universities playing each other in sports then seriously you're a moron.

Several things, I'm not saying coaches are dying to come to SMU. I'm saying SMU has eff u money, and they'll throw it around, even if it doesn't make fiscal sense..see June jones. At the rate they are willing to pay, they have serious hiring power. Beyond that, I've spent my life in the basketball industry, and know how the SMU job is perceived in coaching circles. I'm also well aware that you don't have to hire big to achieve. I'd prefer a young up'n'comer, but that just isn't the current philosophy of the SMU AD, so you have to assume he's gonna fundraise and push the envelope.

Also, I never said there was no way UNT would beat SMU, nor did I even imply that. It would be a good game. I think you're favored in Denton, SMU in Dallas. Facilities are alot more than where the game is played, or people would say Duke has crappy facilities, Indiana too. As for TCU, it's the local flavor of the last few years. SMU could easily be in that position for the next round of serious expansion down the road.

Edited September 9, 2010 by HoopManX

[Green Mean]

Several things, I'm not saying coaches are dying to come to SMU. I'm saying SMU has eff u money, and they'll throw it around, even if it doesn't make fiscal sense..see June jones. At the rate they are willing to pay, they have serious hiring power. Beyond that, I've spent my life in the basketball industry, and know how the SMU job is perceived in coaching circles. I'm also well aware that you don't have to hire big to achieve. I'd prefer a young up'n'comer, but that just isn't the current philosophy of the SMU AD, so you have to assume he's gonna fundraise and push the envelope.

Also, I never said there was no way UNT would beat SMU, nor did I even imply that. It would be a good game. I think you're favored in Denton, SMU in Dallas. Facilities are alot more than where the game is played, or people would say Duke has crappy facilities, Indiana too. As for TCU, it's the local flavor of the last few years. SMU could easily be in that position for the next round of serious expansion down the road.

Sure SMU can money whip the new coach to come there I am not disagreeing you there. I don't see how Orsini believes there is no value into playing UNT...wasn't he the one that agreed with our AD for the 4 or 6 game football series? As far as paying coaches...I admit we don't have a history of paying well but with the new athletics fee coming into place next year and with the freedom to raise it in increments, we will be able to compete and pay fair value for just about any good coach out there. You're right SMU could be a part of the next wave of expansion but so could UH, UCF, LA Tech, UNT etc. SMU is in a better position but UNT isn't that far behind. If you want to consider SMU a sleeping giant then why don't you think UNT wouldn't be one? It's in a top 5 media market, 37,000+ students, over 100k+ alumni in the area and with the upgrades the school is making across the board, UNT will hold its own.

[oldschoollefty]

It's like you're from an alternate universe where SMU is relevant.

SMUt is relevant in D1 intercollegiate athletics like La. Tech is relevant in intercollegiate athletics which is... drum roll please...

NADA!!!!!

[NT03]

So much for that sMu lead , York verbals to Santa Clara

This hurts , I was really hoping to land someone with this kind of size

[HoopManX]

So much for that sMu lead , York verbals to Santa Clara

This hurts , I was really hoping to land someone with this kind of size

Sorta bummed about York, I really like him. Doh seems smitten w/Tre Drye & Cannen Cunningham. Cunningham I get, but I like York more than Drye. Good pull for Keating

[UNTFan23]

[emmitt01]

Sorta bummed about York, I really like him. Doh seems smitten w/Tre Drye & Cannen Cunningham. Cunningham I get, but I like York more than Drye. Good pull for Keating

I'm gonna assume you're not dumb enough to think York signed with Santa Clara because "Doh seems smitten w/ Tre Drye". I mean, you don't honestly think ANYONE would jump at an SMU offer just because it's out there...or do you?

[HoopManX]

I'm gonna assume you're not dumb enough to think York signed with Santa Clara because "Doh seems smitten w/ Tre Drye". I mean, you don't honestly think ANYONE would jump at an SMU offer just because it's out there...or do you?

I don't think anyone jumps at any offer, unless it's not level appropriate. Kids who are low majors jump at mid major offers etc. Marginal high major kids jump at elite high major offers, should they come. Other than that, you have to win kids on the trail. SMU is doing a fair job of that this year, and last to be honest. The reality is that York may be better than a few of the kids Doh has targeted at the same position, but they weren't going to accept any York verbal, even if he wanted to commit, prior to hearing from Cannen Cunningham and Tre Drye, at least. Not saying I agree w/the pecking order, but it is what it is. SMU had him at elite camp, and York was very receptive. Since that time, they've brought 4 face-up 4s on campus, most for OVs, and none were named York. I spoke w/Lutz the other day, and he said York had a very unlucky recruitment. Most schools that were interested filled up at his spot, and he wasn't left w/a ton on the table after that. Personally, I would liked to have seen him end up at SMU or UNT, but whatever. I guess we'll see what happens w/Drye and Cunningham