It's Win Or Else For Unt's Todd Dodge

[PlummMeanGreen]

Don't forget Coach Fry was also AD back during his time here. We were powers in men's basketball, men's soccer plus had some very good track athletes. Fry and RV have had the most positive impact on the program as a whole since I've been watching (1972).

GMG!

PS: And just how long do you need to be at North Texas for crisakes' to meet the criteria for success of our most scrutinizing critics panel? Fry did more in 6 years than most at UNT did in 4, 5, 8, 9, 10 or 20 years. We probably had too many in Denton who early on lost their effectiveness and welcome out as well, quite frankly. One reason for this 3 decades-plus Mean Green Roller Coaster Ride. (Hey, it doesn't take Dr. Phil to figure some of this stuff out, folks).

A sure fire way of knowing if you had something good is not what people on a fan forum like GMG.com feel about it, but rather when a Big 10 school hires your coach away from you. I am trying to think how many coaches I've seen in Denton move up besides our 2 year coach Jerry Moore who was not that popular with his style back in his younger days and hardly had a going away party when he left Denton.

Sometimes, I just don't know about some of our posters and what part of their torsos their brains are located. So sue me--I'm too old to care.

Stadium Name? We need no name from UNT but we do need a corporate name on our stadium and a corporation who has given UNT $15-20 million to get that priviledge.....IMHO. I'm still trying to figure out how we are building this new stadium during the worst USA economy since the Great Depression. This is a modern miracle in my mind's eye and whoever is making this happen deserves a statue or 2 or 3. (Did our previous lady president lose her job because of this stadium--I just wonder).

Edited September 3, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT90]

damn all of you guys are really hard on TD. give him a chance man. this is the best team hes had and the best coaches hes had. he will win 5-6 games and keep his job. this is year 4 and you know what they say about college coaches like charlie weiss, wait till the 4th year to judge them. well now is the time we will see if TD is really what we all hoped

1) The coaches are his fault. Period. He was the one who arrogantly brought his entire high school staff with him. He gets no break for that colossal blunder.

2) It's 7 wins or the door!!!! How many times does RV and TD have to say this themselves before people on this board actually believe it???

Edited September 3, 2010 by UNT90

[Green Mean]

Don't forget Coach Fry was also AD back during his time here. We were powers in men's basketball, men's soccer plus had some very good track athletes. Fry and RV have had the most positive impact on the program as a whole since I've been watching (1972).

I still say its a little short of having your face of your university be named after him. Obviously you have been around the program for a really long time so you may have a better perspective but even with being AD and coach for those years...I still think he needed to be there a lot longer. But as MG93-98 says...if someone wants to donate a crap load of money to name it Hayden Fry stadium then by all means we can do that. If RV is here another 10-20 years and the athletic departments reaches to the point where we need to be then I am totally in favor of naming it after him.

[Green Mean]

1) The coaches are his fault. Period. He was the one who arrogantly brought his entire high school staff with him. He gets no break for that colossal blunder.

2) It's 7 wins or the door!!!! How many times does RV and TD have to say this themselves before people on this board actually believe it???

I agree with point number 1. I semi agree with point number 2. I think RV has to have a hard line stance on the 7 wins because it is probably the reason why Dodge may have worked longer, extra harder this off season etc. But realistically if we win say 4-5 games and show significant progress...I think RV brings him back for year 5. I think we forget he's won 5 games in 3 seasons and if he wins 5 in just 1 season then that is huge progress.

[TIgreen01]

I agree with point number 1. I semi agree with point number 2. I think RV has to have a hard line stance on the 7 wins because it is probably the reason why Dodge may have worked longer, extra harder this off season etc. But realistically if we win say 4-5 games and show significant progress...I think RV brings him back for year 5. I think we forget he's won 5 games in 3 seasons and if he wins 5 in just 1 season then that is huge progress.

Wrong

[ColoradoEagle]

Honestly, he either needs to win a lot this year or be gone. If the Texas Top 200 is any indication, then we're doing absolutely awful at recruiting. Whether that's due to a coach whose job is unsure or not, I have no idea. You can't tell me that there aren't kids out there that want to be among the first athletes at a brand new facility like that.

At this point, he's DD's good twin. He still underperforms as badly or worse (outside of 02-04), but instead of trashing the school, he speaks like you'd expect from a coach, which gets him a pass from some. I just see no improvement in recruiting or on the field. It'd be nice for him to succeed, but I really don't see it happening.

Edited September 3, 2010 by ColoradoEagle

[Green Mean]

Wrong

Wow

[KingDL1]

I still say its a little short of having your face of your university be named after him. Obviously you have been around the program for a really long time so you may have a better perspective but even with being AD and coach for those years...I still think he needed to be there a lot longer. But as MG93-98 says...if someone wants to donate a crap load of money to name it Hayden Fry stadium then by all means we can do that. If RV is here another 10-20 years and the athletic departments reaches to the point where we need to be then I am totally in favor of naming it after him.

I hope the hard line with TD was not put in place to motivate Dodge, but just a commitment by RV to the University and to the fans to move toward excellence. So either fix it Dodge or we will find someone else and guys that is fair, winning is why most any head coaches are hired.

I do think TD is self motivated, though maybe more stubborn then he needed.

[TIgreen01]

Wow

Sorry. I would have fired him after the 2008 season. Not just for the record, but the complete circus that was his first 2 years (drugs, racism, embarrassing losses, etc). Premature? Probably. If he pulls out 7+ wins this year, awesome. He's a likable guy with a good family and he genuinely seems to want to be at North Texas. He absolutely helped sell tickets these last 3 years just on his name alone. I think this year would have seen a sizable drop-off in ticket sales had it not also been the last year for Fouts. 3 years of terrible will do that. 1 year of mediocrity (if we do win 4-5 games this year) is not enough to cut it. We need to sell out the new stadium....

[Green Lantern]

I agree with point number 1. I semi agree with point number 2. I think RV has to have a hard line stance on the 7 wins because it is probably the reason why Dodge may have worked longer, extra harder this off season etc. But realistically if we win say 4-5 games and show significant progress...I think RV brings him back for year 5. I think we forget he's won 5 games in 3 seasons and if he wins 5 in just 1 season then that is huge progress.

It will be a hard line stance. With close to $100 million invested in the Athletic's facilites, centerpiece/showcase being the new stadium, it's either Dodge and Co. coming off a winning season to open the stadium, or it's new regime. They would have to sell new, new, new...promise for a brighter future in that scenario. They need an energized excited fanbase when that new place opens, with optimism for the future. Four losing seasons (even a 5-7 record) wouldn't get it done.

[UNT90]

The acceptance of losing at UNT by some posters is, to me, pretty unbelievable. Would you really take a coach back for year 5 when he produced 9 or 10 wins the 1st four? Good God!

Maybe there is a culture of acceptance of poor performance that comes with being a UNT football fan. That's the only way it makes sense, unless these accepting folks are friends with Dodge.

[H-towngreen]

Sorry. I would have fired him after the 2008 season. Not just for the record, but the complete circus that was his first 2 years (drugs, racism, embarrassing losses, etc).

So you would count the bogus racism charges against him? And then you want to get rid of him bc he tries to clean up the drug use on the team? Makes sense.

[Primo]

Sorry. I would have fired him after the 2008 season. Not just for the record, but the complete circus that was his first 2 years (drugs, racism, embarrassing losses, etc). Premature? Probably. If he pulls out 7+ wins this year, awesome. He's a likable guy with a good family and he genuinely seems to want to be at North Texas. He absolutely helped sell tickets these last 3 years just on his name alone. I think this year would have seen a sizable drop-off in ticket sales had it not also been the last year for Fouts. 3 years of terrible will do that. 1 year of mediocrity (if we do win 4-5 games this year) is not enough to cut it. We need to sell out the new stadium....

I'm not sure I agree with firing someone after some bogus racism charges from a couple of cry-babies. Or his handling a couple of whiny druggies. I hope Dodge wins enough to keep his job. After all, many knew it was a risky hire to bring him in... he knew it was going to be a tough transition and situation.

I would say he's got huevos that would choke a teabagger to stick it out and look this bad in front of lots of folks.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some of the criticism he gets, just saying it was tough in many ways.

[TIgreen01]

So you would count the bogus racism charges against him? And then you want to get rid of him bc he tries to clean up the drug use on the team? Makes sense.

From where I sit (on the outside), when you add everything that was going on those first 2 years together...yes. I'm talking everything....our hiring of a staff of almost all HS coaches; embarrassing loss after embarrassing loss; LOTS of disgruntled players; racism claims--warranted or not, you have to be doing a pretty lousy job communicating with your players when things get as out of control as they did; the locker room split that was all over the papers; then the drug problems; the Rice/OU/MTSU/Troy games; half of Dodge's first recruiting class quitting the team---including the star QB. I mean this goes on and on and on and from the outside it all looks like a coaching staff that never had the team to begin with and was not ever able to gain their trust. Mind you, I didn't even get to the disaster that has been our special teams and tackling problems.

I think the most damning thing (and probably the root cause in all the trouble mentioned above) in the Dodge era reared it's head in game #1 and has yet to be fixed----taking a defense that finished 65th (or somewhere near middle of the pack in the nation) and was returning all but 1 starter (so improvement expected) and promptly turning it into the worst defense in school history and almost the worst in college football history. After seeing all that in season 1, then watching the complete meltdown that was season #2....yes, I think most people would have thought a firing would not have been completely out of the question---even in a profession where 3-4 years is considered the absolute minimum.

I, personally, think that 7 wins is the absolute minimum. I want to see us be competitive and pull out wins against FAU, Troy and MTSU---maybe not all of them in one season...but these are the teams with the best coaching staffs in the Sun Belt....and they have absolutely owned us in the Dodge era. I want to see that our coaching staff can compete with the best in the conference. So far, in 3 years, the Dodge staff has only beaten WKU (3 times), ULM and Ball State. Think about that for a minute when you want to take the high road and keep this staff around if they just show improvement this year. If improvement means 4-5 wins this season and only includes wins versus ULM, WKU, Army, FIU, and ASU but none of the better teams on our schedule is that really showing progress??

Edited September 3, 2010 by TIgreen01

[UNT90]

From where I sit (on the outside), when you add everything that was going on those first 2 years together...yes. I'm talking everything....our hiring of a staff of almost all HS coaches; embarrassing loss after embarrassing loss; LOTS of disgruntled players; racism claims--warranted or not, you have to be doing a pretty lousy job communicating with your players when things get as out of control as they did; the locker room split that was all over the papers; then the drug problems; the Rice/OU/MTSU/Troy games; half of Dodge's first recruiting class quitting the team---including the star QB. I mean this goes on and on and on and from the outside it all looks like a coaching staff that never had the team to begin with and was not ever able to gain their trust. Mind you, I didn't even get to the disaster that has been our special teams and tackling problems.

I think the most damning thing (and probably the root cause in all the trouble mentioned above) in the Dodge era reared it's head in game #1 and has yet to be fixed----taking a defense that finished 65th (or somewhere near middle of the pack in the nation) and was returning all but 1 starter (so improvement expected) and promptly turning it into the worst defense in school history and almost the worst in college football history. After seeing all that in season 1, then watching the complete meltdown that was season #2....yes, I think most people would have thought a firing would not have been completely out of the question---even in a profession where 3-4 years is considered the absolute minimum.

I, personally, think that 7 wins is the absolute minimum. I want to see us be competitive and pull out wins against FAU, Troy and MTSU---maybe not all of them in one season...but these are the teams with the best coaching staffs in the Sun Belt....and they have absolutely owned us in the Dodge era. I want to see that our coaching staff can compete with the best in the conference. So far, in 3 years, the Dodge staff has only beaten WKU (3 times), ULM and Ball State. Think about that for a minute when you want to take the high road and keep this staff around if they just show improvement this year. If improvement means 4-5 wins this season and only includes wins versus ULM, WKU, Army, FIU, and ASU but none of the better teams on our schedule is that really showing progress??

+ 12,645,456,773,324

[Green Mean]

Sorry. I would have fired him after the 2008 season. Not just for the record, but the complete circus that was his first 2 years (drugs, racism, embarrassing losses, etc). Premature? Probably. If he pulls out 7+ wins this year, awesome. He's a likable guy with a good family and he genuinely seems to want to be at North Texas. He absolutely helped sell tickets these last 3 years just on his name alone. I think this year would have seen a sizable drop-off in ticket sales had it not also been the last year for Fouts. 3 years of terrible will do that. 1 year of mediocrity (if we do win 4-5 games this year) is not enough to cut it. We need to sell out the new stadium....

Based on the record of the first couple of years on the field, I don't really disagree with you. As far as all those racism, drug testing issues etc...It's hard to say what really went on but I agree that it was attention brought to the program that wasn't necessary especially with how god awful the team was on the field. I have been a staunch adversary of Dodge for a really long time now but I still pull for the guy because he seems like a good dude and very likable While 7 wins is being said...I just think RV will bring him back if we reach say 5 wins or so but we are very very competitive in most of our games. Maybe I am wrong but I don't see RV firing him if we see significant progress this year.

[Green Mean]

It will be a hard line stance. With close to $100 million invested in the Athletic's facilites, centerpiece/showcase being the new stadium, it's either Dodge and Co. coming off a winning season to open the stadium, or it's new regime. They would have to sell new, new, new...promise for a brighter future in that scenario. They need an energized excited fanbase when that new place opens, with optimism for the future. Four losing seasons (even a 5-7 record) wouldn't get it done.

The acceptance of losing at UNT by some posters is, to me, pretty unbelievable. Would you really take a coach back for year 5 when he produced 9 or 10 wins the 1st four? Good God!

Maybe there is a culture of acceptance of poor performance that comes with being a UNT football fan. That's the only way it makes sense, unless these accepting folks are friends with Dodge.

GL, While you have a valid point...I think if RV really thought about the millions being spent on the new stadium opening next year then why wouldn't he have fired Dodge this off season? It seems like a perfect scenario...bring in a new coach...go through the bumps and bruises this season and open the new stadium in style.

90, I agree, the culture here of settling doesn't make sense and there is need for complete new blood and I think it's getting there slowly slowly. Frankly, I think the new culture is going to be from the alumns from the past say 10 years or so. They seem to be a little more forward thinking and energetic than what we have had at NT fo decades.

[UNT90]

I just think RV will bring him back if we reach say 5 wins or so but we are very very competitive in most of our games. Maybe I am wrong but I don't see RV firing him if we see significant progress this year.

Even though both RV and Coach Dodge have gone on record on multiple occasions saying that it is 7 wins or the door? Don't you see the problems that would cause with alums (at least this one) if what is now basically a promise wasn't kept?

So I assume you would give Coach Dodge a new contract for a 5 win year? You do realize that his contract will expire after 2011 and trying to recruit players when they don't know if you will be there for their redshirt freshman season is a bit of a problem, right?

RV has this dead on. Show you can win, or it's thanks for your service, There will be no movement on the 7 win mandate.

[Green Mean]

I hope the hard line with TD was not put in place to motivate Dodge, but just a commitment by RV to the University and to the fans to move toward excellence. So either fix it Dodge or we will find someone else and guys that is fair, winning is why most any head coaches are hired.

I do think TD is self motivated, though maybe more stubborn then he needed.

King, I agree that I think TD prob puts his heart and soul into trying to win but in any every day life no matter what job, status etc people have....if they know their backs are against the wall then generally, people will tend to perform better because there's more of that sense of urgency. So I think TD is still working his tail off but I think he is putting that extra thought into it knowing that his back is against the wall and if he doesn't reach 7 wins then he'll get the boot which he wouldn't want of course.

[ColoradoEagle]

GL, While you have a valid point...I think if RV really thought about the millions being spent on the new stadium opening next year then why wouldn't he have fired Dodge this off season? It seems like a perfect scenario...bring in a new coach...go through the bumps and bruises this season and open the new stadium in style.

Dodge is here for this season only because the student athletics fee hasn't kicked in yet. From RV's point of view, he has nothing to lose. If Dodge wins 7+ games, great, we have our coach. If he fails again, then we have enough money to hire an FBS level coach, possibly away from another FBS school.

Edited September 3, 2010 by ColoradoEagle

[Green Lantern]

GL, While you have a valid point...I think if RV really thought about the millions being spent on the new stadium opening next year then why wouldn't he have fired Dodge this off season? It seems like a perfect scenario...bring in a new coach...go through the bumps and bruises this season and open the new stadium in style.

My personal opinion regarding this situation is that RV made the hire of Dodge. That's his guy. There were other viable options out there during the process, but that's the guy he thought gave us the best chance to build a winning program. Dodge still may. He's got a golden opportunity this year to make good & put the past couple of years behind him. RV's going to try and give him every chance to succede & the opportunity to play the first game in the new stadium since that was a big part of the last coaching search (the promise of a new stadium in the next few years).

All that being said, you've still got to win enough football games before the new stadium opens for the fans to be engaged enough for it to matter. You can't spend that kind of money & move into a new place with a dejected fan base having no hope for anything better. It just doesn't make any sense.

For the record...Let's just win some games this year & not have to worry about any of this mess! TFLF has kinda gotten me drinking the Canales kool-aid.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Green Lantern

[untjim1995]

Dodge is here for this season only because the student athletics fee hasn't kicked in yet. From RV's point of view, he has nothing to lose. If Dodge wins 7+ games, great, we have our coach. If he fails again, then we have enough money to hire an FBS level coach, possibly away from another FBS school.

This is what I think, too. If your RV, you say to yourself or to the BOR that the worst stadium in America is about to go away. The coach who has yet to produce anything has one last season to play there and to show us all that he is worthy of being rewarded with a couple of years as the coach at the new stadium. He gets 6-7 wins this year, which I believe is the true barometer (6 wins and no blowouts, except Clemson or 7 wins period), then RV gives him an extension of a year or two on his contract, with even a small raise. The AD stays in good shape financially as the university doesn't have to buy out a contract and give out a bigger contract to the next coach. Of course, if he doesn't get to these levels, then he gets to find a new job as a HS football coach, where he will be in great demand, and UNT uses its extra student fee money to get a new coach, preferably one that has some name recognition. Having seen what TCU did with Franchione and even UTEP with Mike Price, I think we should be able to get a good coach, such as Steve Kragthorpe, who I want if Dodge does fail. That said, I would prefer Todd Dodge to just make it here and keep building things in the right direction.

[UNT90]

This is what I think, too. If your RV, you say to yourself or to the BOR that the worst stadium in America is about to go away. The coach who has yet to produce anything has one last season to play there and to show us all that he is worthy of being rewarded with a couple of years as the coach at the new stadium. He gets 6-7 wins this year, which I believe is the true barometer (6 wins and no blowouts, except Clemson or 7 wins period), then RV gives him an extension of a year or two on his contract, with even a small raise. The AD stays in good shape financially as the university doesn't have to buy out a contract and give out a bigger contract to the next coach. Of course, if he doesn't get to these levels, then he gets to find a new job as a HS football coach, where he will be in great demand, and UNT uses its extra student fee money to get a new coach, preferably one that has some name recognition. Having seen what TCU did with Franchione and even UTEP with Mike Price, I think we should be able to get a good coach, such as Steve Kragthorpe, who I want if Dodge does fail. That said, I would prefer Todd Dodge to just make it here and keep building things in the right direction.

[All About UNT]

This is what I think, too. If your RV, you say to yourself or to the BOR that the worst stadium in America is about to go away. The coach who has yet to produce anything has one last season to play there and to show us all that he is worthy of being rewarded with a couple of years as the coach at the new stadium. He gets 6-7 wins this year, which I believe is the true barometer (6 wins and no blowouts, except Clemson or 7 wins period), then RV gives him an extension of a year or two on his contract, with even a small raise. The AD stays in good shape financially as the university doesn't have to buy out a contract and give out a bigger contract to the next coach. Of course, if he doesn't get to these levels, then he gets to find a new job as a HS football coach, where he will be in great demand, and UNT uses its extra student fee money to get a new coach, preferably one that has some name recognition. Having seen what TCU did with Franchione and even UTEP with Mike Price, I think we should be able to get a good coach, such as Steve Kragthorpe, who I want if Dodge does fail. That said, I would prefer Todd Dodge to just make it here and keep building things in the right direction.

Kragthorpe's contract is a 1.1 million dollar a year contract (with bonuses) for five years.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I think the most damning thing (and probably the root cause in all the trouble mentioned above) in the Dodge era reared it's head in game #1 and has yet to be fixed----taking a defense that finished 65th (or somewhere near middle of the pack in the nation) and was returning all but 1 starter (so improvement expected) and promptly turning it into the worst defense in school history and almost the worst in college football history.

83rd