How Sad!

[GrandGreen]

I'm less concerned after all of this about which conference we're in and more about building a winning football program.

Johnny Jones has put together solid basketball teams for years now, getting better and better each consecutive year. What has that gotten us? The #124 recruit in the nation signed with us the other day, turning down offers from Baylor, Kansas State, Houston, Georgia, etc. Today, the #100 recruit in the nation is on campus. Why are they coming here? Because we're building a solid program and are 'oh so close' to working our way deep into the tournament and becoming "DFW's team". The conference we're in is starting to matter less and less.

We can do the same thing in football, and I think we will. Don't get me wrong, being in a conference with TCU, Houston, Rice, Tulsa, SMU, UTEP, etc would be nice. In the end, though, I just want to see us winning in football and approaching that top 25 rank. It'd lead us to the position of being able to pick and choose where we want to go instead of fighting over the scraps.

Not to damper your enthusiasm, but Williams committed. He can't sign till November I believe.

While there is a small link between reality and message board fodder, it is miniscule. There is very little positive mention of NT because NT has been horrible in football the last five years. That is what most of the Internet geniuses focus on. Didn't seen to hurt UTEP, who have one of the most historically bad football records, the last time CUSA expanded.

The fact is NT now has a lot in it's quiver. New facilities, good basketball, media market, huge student body, solid and improving academics, and perhaps most importantly a new student athletic fee that could rather quickly move NT budget significantly over the other Belt members and La Tech. These things are not likely to be missed by decision makers. NT is a far distance away from the top tier of non-AQ teams like TCU, Boise State and a few others, but I think in any merit based comparison; NT is in much better position than most non-AQ teams including the rest of the Belt, La Tech and the newcomer Texas twins.

I believe like you do that NT will turn football around, it is just a question of if it will be done by this staff or the next one because the resources are finally coming on stream. Building the program is what NT should be concentrating on as you indicated. Seeking better conference affiliation is part of that process, but definitely should not be the primary focus. There are just too many uncontrollable variables in conference selections and in today world changes can come quickly.

[ColoradoEagle]

Not to damper your enthusiasm, but Williams committed. He can't sign till November I believe.

Yeah, I misspoke. It's a strong verbal but can't be made official until November.

[wardly]

Don't take board talk to heart. Memory is short term for many of the posters. They see the last five years (or even less) and think that we have always been losers. They don't recall our four straight bowl appearances or remember that we have been a Top 20 team. They often aren't aware of any athletics other than football. They don't know the size and scope of our university.

Here's some of the things that we have going for us that university presidents know but most fans don't:

- We have 36,000 students

- We have the largest number of alumni in the 5th largest market

- We have more than 185,000 living graduates and far more that attended but did not graduate

- We have been a member of the highest NCAA division for 57 years, 45 at the FBS equivalent

- We are a little more than 20 miles from one of the world's busiest airports, allowing cheaper fares and easy availability

- Beginning next year, excellent football and basketball facilities and an athletic village that will soon be on par or better with any non-AQ university

- We offer 246 baccalaurate, masters, and doctors degrees at the Denton campus

- We are on a 10-year plan to become a Tier 1 research university

- There are 17 FBS universities within a 500 mile radius of Denton

The above, along with having a president that has been active in NCAA hierarchy and perhaps the top-rated consultant in college sports, I think that we are well-placed to be a "player" in the upcoming realignment. No guarantees but I like our odds.

the one thing missing on your list is fan support. if we don't support a winning men's basketball, what will we support? unless we grow attendance, we bring nothing to the table.

[eulessismore]

the one thing missing on your list is fan support. if we don't support a winning men's basketball, what will we support? unless we grow attendance, we bring nothing to the table.

Hmmm, I thought I was in the football forum, but August has been a weird month so far.

[UNTFan23]

Hmmm, I thought I was in the football forum, but August has been a weird month so far.

I think it is easier to see right now that Basketball has more going for it than football based on current trends.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

the one thing missing on your list is fan support. if we don't support a winning men's basketball, what will we support? unless we grow attendance, we bring nothing to the table.

--Fan support would NO problem if we were in major confernece with big name schools coming to town.

[eulessismore]

I think it is easier to see right now that Basketball has more going for it than football based on current trends.

That is logical, and is thus the flaw in your argument. However, since football has not made any inroads into the basketball forum that I can tell, I propose this competition between the two sports: Simultaneous late August kickoff events for football and basketball, same location, walk/run, meal, etc., with the winner being determined by the number of "UNT football" jerseys sold compared to "UNT Basketball" jerseys. What would we have to lose, time we would have spent praying for August to end?

Edited August 20, 2010 by eulessismore

[ColoradoEagle]

--Fan support would NO problem if we were in major confernece with big name schools coming to town.

That's the same for everyone. Do you think Colorado State, Wyoming, San Diego State, etc are driving TCU attendance and donations? Once we can start filling our new stadium consistently enough to warrant the expansion to 50k, we'll have our pick of conferences, even BCS conferences. Those waiting on the sidelines because they don't want to see Middle Tennessee vs. North Texas will be in disbelief down the road when they're snatched up for the Nashville market while we're left behind.

Filling our stadium and the pit will put us in a good place, and help us avoid the alternate 1985 where Middle Tennessee is in the Big 12 and Lorraine is married to Biff.

[LoveMG]

--Fan support would NO problem if we were in major confernece with big name schools coming to town.

this.

[GrandGreen]

the one thing missing on your list is fan support. if we don't support a winning men's basketball, what will we support? unless we grow attendance, we bring nothing to the table.

We definitely need better fan support, but have you checked the attendances of our peers. Not many outside the AQ conferences draw big numbers. Relative to the performance of our recent football teams, NT attendance is actually pretty good. I agree that basketball is way under supported but you could say that about most of the Texas teams not in the Big 12. Been to a UTA, SMU or TCU game lately. Not currently winning programs, but support was not great when they were.

I don't know who you are comparing NT to, but saying NT brings nothing to the table as a blanket statement is pure baloney.

Yes, NT must build better support; but support takes more forms than butts in the seats. Statements like yours above, outside of being at best ill informed, certainly don't promote or help the program. I have never believed that message board banner changes much one way or another, but I do think your statement illustrates a major problem that NT has. There are too many of us that are almost apologetic about NT's place in athletics as well as an university. Look at things objectively and you will see a lot of warts but at the same time; don't ignore the many positive things that are happening.

Does NT have a long way to go to be were most of us would like? The answer is obviously yes, but the great news is that NT is at long last making substantial progress.

[Arkstfan]

--Fan support would NO problem if we were in major confernece with big name schools coming to town.

BULL

I went through a Houston media guide a couple years ago. The only difference in Houston attendance now and in the SWC is they don't get the attendance spikes that Texas, Texas A&M, and Arkansas provided. Their fan base is their fan base and it hasn't changed. The only people they lost were the ones who were there wearing burnt orange, maroon, or Hog red. Those weren't people donating or buying season tickets.

[UNT90]

BULL

I went through a Houston media guide a couple years ago. The only difference in Houston attendance now and in the SWC is they don't get the attendance spikes that Texas, Texas A&M, and Arkansas provided. Their fan base is their fan base and it hasn't changed. The only people they lost were the ones who were there wearing burnt orange, maroon, or Hog red. Those weren't people donating or buying season tickets.

Losing is losing, be it in the Sun Belt or the SEC. Until we start winning, we are going nowhere. How the hell does Nevada-Reno get invited to the MWC? They started winning.

As far as a fan base being stale, that all comes from the experience that the individual person had while attending the instuitution. If you have no spirit programs, etc., nothing to tie a potential graduate to the university, as was the case when I attended UNT, then you will not have an interested Alumni base.

Thankfully, I here things have changed significantly in the last 10 years, and that there is much more student involvement. Good. Problem is we may have to wait another 10 years to reap the dividends.

Edited August 20, 2010 by UNT90

[Censored by Laurie]

I wonder what the Big Black Cowboys Computer would have to say about all this.

[PlummMeanGreen]

That's the same for everyone. Do you think Colorado State, Wyoming, San Diego State, etc are driving TCU attendance and donations? Once we can start filling our new stadium consistently enough to warrant the expansion to 50k, we'll have our pick of conferences, even BCS conferences. Those waiting on the sidelines because they don't want to see Middle Tennessee vs. North Texas will be in disbelief down the road when they're snatched up for the Nashville market while we're left behind.

Filling our stadium and the pit will put us in a good place, and help us avoid the alternate 1985 where Middle Tennessee is in the Big 12 and Lorraine is married to Biff.

Nashville/Murfreesboro TV market is ranked #30 in the USA; The D-FW TV market is ranked #6 and Catha Harasta formerly of the Dallas Morning News once reported after an ABC-TV game in a blurb she thought worth writing that the North Texas vs and old SLC opponent I cannot recall (senior moment)?; anyway, she reported that particular North Texas Mean Green football game had some very, very nice ratings for that time slot.

So I guess the aforementioned thoughts of the above paragraph might even suggest that UT and TAMU don't completely have the DFW TV market sewed up as some on this board have posted? As GrayEagle posted yesterday that it is still UNT who has more alums in this DFW Metroplex than any one single Texas university--a number that is growing by the year.

So for a hardy handful on this forum who don't think a winning UNT football program can't pull its weight in the nation's 6'th ranked TV market I defer to Cathy Harasta's blurb in the Dallas Morning News from a UNT televised football game yester-year. (SUMG showed that blurb to me since I missed reading it in the DMN the day it appeared) By the way those Mean Green TV ratings took place long, long before Denton, Denton County and UNT had their most recent growth spurt so I guess all we need to do in Mean Green Country is........start winnning again? TV ratings with our present day UNT constituency will never be a problem in this the nation's 6'th largest ranked TV market.

Edited August 20, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[Eagle1855]

Filling our stadium and the pit will put us in a good place, and help us avoid the alternate 1985 where Middle Tennessee is in the Big 12 and Lorraine is married to Biff.

This is good stuff.

[greenminer]

BULL

I went through a Houston media guide a couple years ago. The only difference in Houston attendance now and in the SWC is they don't get the attendance spikes that Texas, Texas A&M, and Arkansas provided. Their fan base is their fan base and it hasn't changed. The only people they lost were the ones who were there wearing burnt orange, maroon, or Hog red. Those weren't people donating or buying season tickets.

You are not going to convince me that moving to CUSA did not negatively impact their home attendance.

Looking at everything, just the "Big 3", and also factoring out the Big 3.

Overall, Winning seasons, losing seasons and 8+ win seasons.

I think our reality is somewhere in-between: winning is the driving force behind this, but if you can win consistently against more "marquee" competition, it only helps the cause.

** to clarify, this is looking at all their SWC years, plus CUSA through 2008 season. Pulled from their 2009 media guide.

Edited August 20, 2010 by greenminer

[Black Scholes]

BULL

I went through a Houston media guide a couple years ago. The only difference in Houston attendance now and in the SWC is they don't get the attendance spikes that Texas, Texas A&M, and Arkansas provided. Their fan base is their fan base and it hasn't changed. The only people they lost were the ones who were there wearing burnt orange, maroon, or Hog red. Those weren't people donating or buying season tickets.

HMMMM......

2003 Baylor at UNT attendance ~30,000

2007 SMU @ UNT attendance >25,000 (Approximately same result with UNT @ SMU)

I'm sure others could list more games to add to this........

Conclusion: When UNT schedules even the lower echelon of other conferences that are more regional, attendance spikes significantly because of who we play. Its not just some of the time or here and there. It has happened every time in the last 10 years. Having more regional / attractive opponents absolutely gets the students more excited about coming to games and causes some alumni who wont' show up to watch xyz Sunbelt team to come.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Black Scholes

[PlummMeanGreen]

HMMMM......

2003 Baylor at UNT attendance ~30,000

2007 SMU @ UNT attendance >25,000 (Approximately same result with UNT @ SMU)

I'm sure otheres could list more games to add to this........

Conclusion: When UNT schedules even the lower echelon of other conferences that are more regional, attendance spikes significantly because of who we play. Its not just some of the time or here and there. It has happened every time in the last 10 years. Having more regional / attractive opponents absolutely gets the students more excited about coming to games and causes some alumni who wont' show up to watch xyz Sunbelt team to come.

1990 SMU @ UNT (Fouts Field) approx 22,000 in a (then) 20K seat Fouts Field. (The game was even televised locally and people still came out to venerable, ol' Fouts Field (as Bill Mercer used to describe our soon-to-be demolished ol Lady).

The shame of all this is that our Texas-based sister schools don't presently share the same perspective we do with our green tinted "local rivalries gets em' in the seats" theme is concerned but.....one day I believe most of them will. As we should all know by now....nothing stays the same.