Quick Media Day Notes

[Brett Vito]

DRC

[MeanGreen61]

The most interesting quote came from Todd Dodge, who openly admitted that he has been given an ultimatum by athletic director Rick Villarreal (one we all know to be that UNT has to win seven games this season for the staff to return). Dodge said that UNT has the team it needs to reach that milestone.

[Huff]

Well, let's see if I understand this right......if you have the players that are good enough to win seven games and you don't win seven games, that only leaves one area that underperformed, doesn't it ?

[GreenBat]

Well, let's see if I understand this right......if you have the players that are good enough to win seven games and you don't win seven games, that only leaves one area that underperformed, doesn't it ?

If you mean Coaching! you've got the correct answer.

[UNT90]

Will everyone on here please now realize that it is 7 or the door? It should have been clear before. If you can't see it now, go buy yourself a German Sheppard and a cane.

Good to know that Coach Dodge knows exactly what the expectations for the team are this year. Can't help but respect a boss who lets you know exactly what he wants a year before he wants it.

[gangrene]

I still fail to see how making this ultimatum public knowledge benefits anyone involved with North Texas football. Knowing that the 2010 team must win two more games than Dodge has won in his entire career as an FBS head coach does more harm for recruiting than it helps.

We all want to win and we all expect to win, but let me remind everyone that we've won 7+ games only three times since we returned to D-1/FBS football in 1995. I'd love to go undefeated this season, but I realize that's not a realistic goal. Given our 2010 schedule, is seven wins a realistic expectation for this season? Maybe. Given our 5-31 record and large margin of loss over the last three years...maybe not. Should seven wins be the only acceptable measurement of success for 2010? I don't know, but I think that's something that should have been kept between Coach Dodge and RV and left for the fans, recruits and opposing coaches to merely speculate upon. Instead, it's become virtually indisputable public knowledge that is severely hampering recruiting efforts and will put any new coaching staff, if that's what the future holds, at an even bigger disadvantage.

No matter how you feel about Dodge, if you're a Mean Green fan, you better hope and pray we get off to strong start in the 2010 season. Otherwise, I fear we'll be waiting another 3-4 years to see positive results from the next rebuilding campaign.

[Harry]

That's a real good point because if they make a change they will have to give 3-4 years to bring in their players.

[UNT90]

I still fail to see how making this ultimatum public knowledge benefits anyone involved with North Texas football. Knowing that the 2010 team must win two more games than Dodge has won in his entire career as an FBS head coach does more harm for recruiting than it helps.

We all want to win and we all expect to win, but let me remind everyone that we've won 7+ games only three times since we returned to D-1/FBS football in 1995. I'd love to go undefeated this season, but I realize that's not a realistic goal. Given our 2010 schedule, is seven wins a realistic expectation for this season? Maybe. Given our 5-31 record and large margin of loss over the last three years...maybe not. Should seven wins be the only acceptable measurement of success for 2010? I don't know, but I think that's something that should have been kept between Coach Dodge and RV and left for the fans, recruits and opposing coaches to merely speculate upon. Instead, it's become virtually indisputable public knowledge that is severely hampering recruiting efforts and will put any new coaching staff, if that's what the future holds, at an even bigger disadvantage.

No matter how you feel about Dodge, if you're a Mean Green fan, you better hope and pray we get off to strong start in the 2010 season. Otherwise, I fear we'll be waiting another 3-4 years to see positive results from the next rebuilding campaign.

Wow. Has the culture here become so beaten down that we are afraid to demand a winning season out of a coach in his 4th year? Do you really believe it will take the next coach (if that even happens) 4 years to establish a winning record?

Well, I for one am glad that standard are being set and they are public. Everyone now knows that we expect something from our athletic programs and that we will not settle for status quo. Is that such a bad thing? Why do you think it will take 4 additional years for a new coach to "rebuild" this program? My God, how many coaches have been successful in year 2 at their new job. Just look down the road and you will find one, and with a similiar set of circumstances.

I expect to win at least 7 games a year. I don't care how bad we have been "since returning to FBS," I care about how good we will be this year forward. I don't mean anything personal by this, but it is infuriating to see these "we have always sucked, so it's ok if we only suck only a little less" posts from people that have been around here a long time. Is that really the standards you want set for this program? Have you really been that badly beaten by your husband/college football program that your college football self-esteem is that low?

Hey, Coach Dodge is a great guy and does everything right for UNT, except win (so far). Like it or not, that is the name of the game in college football. If you don't want to play by those rules, take your a&% back to D1AA. I would bet Coach Dodge would be the first to tell you the same thing.

Maybe we all should suck it up, grab the young ones, and take ourselves to the Shelter for Battered College Football Program's Fans, where we can begin to build the expectations and confidence that will lead to a better college football future.

Jackwagons!!!

Edited August 11, 2010 by UNT90

[gangrene]

Wow. Has the culture here become so beaten down that we are afraid to demand a winning season out of a coach in his 4th year? Do you really believe it will take the next coach (if that even happens) 4 years to establish a winning record?

Well, I for one am glad that standard are being set and they are public. Everyone now knows that we expect something from our athletic programs and that we will not settle for status quo. Is that such a bad thing? Why do you think it will take 4 additional years for a new coach to "rebuild" this program? My God, how many coaches have been successful in year 2 at their new job. Just look down the road and you will find one, and with a similiar set of circumstances.

I expect to win at least 7 games a year. I don't care how bad we have been "since returning to FBS," I care about how good we will be this year forward. I don't mean anything personal by this, but it is infuriating to see these "we have always sucked, so it's ok if we only suck only a little less" posts from people that have been around here a long time. Is that really the standards you want set for this program? Have you really been that badly beaten by your husband/college football program that your college football self-esteem is that low?

Hey, Coach Dodge is a great guy and does everything right for UNT, except win (so far). Like it or not, that is the name of the game in college football. If you don't want to play by those rules, take your a&% back to D1AA. I would bet Coach Dodge would be the first to tell you the same thing.

Maybe we all should suck it up, grab the young ones, and take ourselves to the Shelter for Battered College Football Program's Fans, where we can begin to build the expectations and confidence that will lead to a better college football future.

Jackwagons!!!

I think you totally missed my point. If seven wins is the ultimatum, fine...but why make it public? Why is a high school, or even a JUCO, kid going to commit to a coach with such a grim-looking future? He's not, and they haven't. Why delay the inevitable and set the program back another year of recruiting? Read between the lines here because I'm not going to spell it out any more clearly for you.

Oh, and good luck in trying to duplicate the feat that was accomplished at "the school down the road" at UNT. Last time I checked, we didn't have $2 million to pay a Head Coach. How many coaches have had winning records in their second year at a program that averaged 2 wins (and countless blowout losses) over the previous 5-year span? Without doing any research, I'd say less than 5. And, since you're into comparisons, when was the last time any university publicly announced their HC had to win X number of games or he was fired? Given our circumstances, that's recruiting suicide.

As I said in the previous post we all want to win. Then again, maybe I'll win the lottery tomorrow (and without even buying a ticket).

[UNT90]

I think you totally missed my point. If seven wins is the ultimatum, fine...but why make it public? Why is a high school, or even a JUCO, kid going to commit to a coach with such a grim-looking future? He's not, and they haven't. Why delay the inevitable and set the program back another year of recruiting? Read between the lines here because I'm not going to spell it out any more clearly for you.

Oh, and good luck in trying to duplicate the feat that was accomplished at "the school down the road" at UNT. Last time I checked, we didn't have $2 million to pay a Head Coach. How many coaches have had winning records in their second year at a program that averaged 2 wins (and countless blowout losses) over the previous 5-year span? Without doing any research, I'd say less than 5. And, since you're into comparisons, when was the last time any university publicly announced their HC had to win X number of games or he was fired? Given our circumstances, that's recruiting suicide.

As I said in the previous post we all want to win. Then again, maybe I'll win the lottery tomorrow (and without even buying a ticket).

Well, without doing any research, Turner Gill at Buffalo comes to mind, but I'm sure those circumstances were also so much different than UNT's that we should never hope to duplicate them. From wiki: "Gill agreed to a five-year contract to become the 23rd head football coach at the University at Buffalo on December 16, 2005. The Buffalo Bulls had gone 8-49 under previous coach Jim Hofher, and was considered "one of the three or four worst FBS programs in the nation when [Gill] took over."^[4] Under Gill, the Bulls improved each of the first three seasons, winning the Mid-American Conference championship in 2008."

But we should never expect that here, right?

I think you overrate the impact of setting a standard on recruiting. What has made recruiting hard is 5-31, not the fact that the AD has mandated a winning season. Do you really think recruits and their parents think that Coach Dodge is not on the hot seat? I think you vastly overrate the recruiting impact.

I'm looking forward to a time in the near future when a coach of this program is on the hot seat when he ONLY wins 7 games. And yes, that can happen.

[GreenMachine]

I think you totally missed my point. If seven wins is the ultimatum, fine...but why make it public? Why is a high school, or even a JUCO, kid going to commit to a coach with such a grim-looking future? He's not, and they haven't. Why delay the inevitable and set the program back another year of recruiting? Read between the lines here because I'm not going to spell it out any more clearly for you.

Oh, and good luck in trying to duplicate the feat that was accomplished at "the school down the road" at UNT. Last time I checked, we didn't have $2 million to pay a Head Coach. How many coaches have had winning records in their second year at a program that averaged 2 wins (and countless blowout losses) over the previous 5-year span? Without doing any research, I'd say less than 5. And, since you're into comparisons, when was the last time any university publicly announced their HC had to win X number of games or he was fired? Given our circumstances, that's recruiting suicide.

As I said in the previous post we all want to win. Then again, maybe I'll win the lottery tomorrow (and without even buying a ticket).

I think most programs with a winning attitude have a 7 win ultimatum in place, stated or not. Every fan of NT should expect nothing less every single year, regardless of past performance, regardless of SMU, regardless of etc.....

[emmitt01]

I think it is exactly BECAUSE of our "unique circumstances" that we have this ultimatum in place. You talk about our 5-31 record the last few years (who coached us to that record by the way?). This isn't just a blip or a down period in our storied history. In the eyes of most, students and recent alumni included, this is "business as usual" at North Texas. We are not UT, OU, or even SMU as you so deftly pointed out. A statement of demanded excellence (or just a game over .500 honestly) is not what most expect from NT. Like the pretty new stadium this is a "we're putting our big boy pants on" kind of statement. You wanna really send a message to potential recruits and fans? Bring back a coach who is 5-31 through three years...then make no public indication that that won't cut it. We want Denton, Dallas and eventually the country to take us seriously? Let's act like WE take ourselves seriously, for a change.

I think you totally missed my point. If seven wins is the ultimatum, fine...but why make it public? Why is a high school, or even a JUCO, kid going to commit to a coach with such a grim-looking future? He's not, and they haven't. Why delay the inevitable and set the program back another year of recruiting? Read between the lines here because I'm not going to spell it out any more clearly for you.

Oh, and good luck in trying to duplicate the feat that was accomplished at "the school down the road" at UNT. Last time I checked, we didn't have $2 million to pay a Head Coach. How many coaches have had winning records in their second year at a program that averaged 2 wins (and countless blowout losses) over the previous 5-year span? Without doing any research, I'd say less than 5. And, since you're into comparisons, when was the last time any university publicly announced their HC had to win X number of games or he was fired? Given our circumstances, that's recruiting suicide.

As I said in the previous post we all want to win. Then again, maybe I'll win the lottery tomorrow (and without even buying a ticket).

Edited August 11, 2010 by emmitt01

[KRAM1]

And, while we are at it "putting our big boy pants on", why don't we put our support dollars where our mouths are? If we demand from our coaches and our players, should we not also expect support levels to increase by the same standard? It is one thing to "say" UNT needs to do this or that and be a "champagne" program, to pay big tinme coaching salaries, to recruit the best, to play the best, but it is hard to do on a "beer" budget. If ever there was a time to financially support this program, it is NOW! The administration is demanding wins, it is building a new stadium and it is moving the entire program ahead. That takes dollars and plenty of them. Season ticket sales are not at nearly the levels they should be for this program to move forward, memberships in the Mean green Club are so low as to be laughable for a university the size of UNT, Alumni memberships are still way too low. Little things add up and make a difference. You can make a difference for very little in the way of donations...yes, a little can help a great deal at this time in UNT's history. The time is really "now or never" for this program and its supporters. It's a great time to be a member of the Mean Green Nation as so much positive is happening. Let's all try to get beyond past snubs (real and perceived) or past "I'll do this when's" and decide to step up and be part of the solution. Buying season tickets...at any price...even one...can help, making a donation to the Mean green Club and/or the stadium at even $25 if you are currently a non-donor can make a big difference, joing the Alumni Association at the annual level can make a big difference...it doesn't take much to make a difference at this very critical time in UNT's history.

I ask each and every member of the Mean Green Nation to stop and really think about where UNT is and what it wants to accomplish. Do what you can and only what you can...however much that is...but do something. Let's help move this program from a "beer budget" to a "champagne budget" and show the nation that the Mean Green Nation means business, and that it has the support from alumni, students and fans to make it happen. It is way past time that we all "got over" our own personal grievenances and stop placing "conditions" on our support. RV and his team have shown that they mean business, do we or do we just want to continue down that same old tired lame road of excuses?

GO MEAN GREEN!

[emmitt01]

And this too. Excuses need to stop, from ALL of us.

And, while we are at it "putting our big boy pants on", why don't we put our support dollars where our mouths are? If we demand from our coaches and our players, should we not also expect support levels to increase by the same standard? It is one thing to "say" UNT needs to do this or that and be a "champagne" program, to pay big tinme coaching salaries, to recruit the best, to play the best, but it is hard to do on a "beer" budget. If ever there was a time to financially support this program, it is NOW! The administration is demanding wins, it is building a new stadium and it is moving the entire program ahead. That takes dollars and plenty of them. Season ticket sales are not at nearly the levels they should be for this program to move forward, memberships in the Mean green Club are so low as to be laughable for a university the size of UNT, Alumni memberships are still way too low. Little things add up and make a difference. You can make a difference for very little in the way of donations...yes, a little can help a great deal at this time in UNT's history. The time is really "now or never" for this program and its supporters. It's a great time to be a member of the Mean Green Nation as so much positive is happening. Let's all try to get beyond past snubs (real and perceived) or past "I'll do this when's" and decide to step up and be part of the solution. Buying season tickets...at any price...even one...can help, making a donation to the Mean green Club and/or the stadium at even $25 if you are currently a non-donor can make a big difference, joing the Alumni Association at the annual level can make a big difference...it doesn't take much to make a difference at this very critical time in UNT's history.

I ask each and every member of the Mean Green Nation to stop and really think about where UNT is and what it wants to accomplish. Do what you can and only what you can...however much that is...but do something. Let's help move this program from a "beer budget" to a "champagne budget" and show the nation that the Mean Green Nation means business, and that it has the support from alumni, students and fans to make it happen. It is way past time that we all "got over" our own personal grievenances and stop placing "conditions" on our support. RV and his team have shown that they mean business, do we or do we just want to continue down that same old tired lame road of excuses?

GO MEAN GREEN!

[SilverEagle]

And this too. Excuses need to stop, from ALL of us.

Although we do need to get more money for the program, throwing money at the sitation is not the answer. We need a coach who can work under adverse circumstances. Hayden Fry was very much like that, and so was Corkey Nelson. This guy would also fit into that mould. This guy has pretty much won every time he has been in charge. He seems to always show up with his "I didn't come here to lose" t-shirt on.

Staff Directory

Don Carthel

Head Football Coach

To say that Don Carthel has elevated the West Texas A&M football to that of national prominence would be an understatement. What Carthel has accomplished over the past five seasons at WTAMU is simply amazing, having taken a program that had won just seven games over the previous four years combined and guide it to five winning seasons, five consecutive post-season appearances, four successive NCAA Division-II playoff appearances, four LSC South Division titles, three-consecutive Lone Star Conference Championships - and 51 victories.

In 2009, playing a schedule that featured six nationally-ranked opponents and twice playing the nation’s then-top-ranked team, Carthel rallied an injury-riddled squad from a 1-5 start to six consecutive wins - posting a 7-5 mark and the school’s first bowl appearance (a 31-25 Kanza Bowl victory over Nebraska-Omaha) since the 1967 season.

In 2005, during his first season in Canyon, Carthel and the Buffs surprised everyone, as, after having been picked to finish last in the LSC preseason poll, as they registered a 10-1 regular season record and captured the school’s first Lone Star Conference Championship in 19 years. Excitement surrounding Carthel’s program was evident as attendance soared, with a regular-season average of over 14,000 fans per game at Kimbrough Memorial Stadium. In addition to garnering local praise from alumni and area media outlets, Carthel was honored by his peers as the 2005 Lone Star Conference Coach of the Year.

Following that breakout campaign there was still work to be done as Carthel set out in 2006 to let the LSC and the rest of NCAA Division II know that WT’s 2005 success was no fluke. The Buffs left little doubt, as they posted an 11-2 season and became the first squad in school history to claim back-to-back outright conference championships. In addition, WT notched another ‘first’ in the school record book as it claimed the program’s first-ever NCAA Division II playoff victory with a 30-27 overtime win over Abilene Christian. After leading the country in Division II average attendance the previous year, Buff fans again came out in droves, helping WT rank first, nationally, in total attendance.

That only set the stage for what was to come during the 2007 campaign, as the Buffs confidently went about amassing the school's first-ever undefeated regular season, going 11-0, claiming a third-straight Lone Star Conference championship and advancing two rounds into the post-season playoffs.

Another 11-win, record-shattering campaign followed in 2008, as the Buffs again were among the biggest draws in NCAA Division II. That season saw Carthel's squad set no fewer than 15 team, 21individual, 26 LSC and eight NCAA playoff records.

But this isn't the first taste of success for the Friona, Texas, native, as he has enjoyed several successful coaching stops during his career, including time at LSC-rival Eastern New Mexico, the University of Texas-El Paso and the University of Dubuque.

Carthel graduated from ENMU with a bachelor's degree in physical education and a minor in mathematics in 1974, then went on to get his master's in physical education in 1975. He played center for the Greyhounds from 1970-73, helping ENMU to a No. 17 NAIA ranking his senior season. In addition to his efforts on the gridiron, Carthel also threw discus for ENMU's 1974 national champion squad.

In 1975, Carthel began his coaching career at Floydada High School, serving as the defensive coordinator under legendary Hall of Fame coach L.G. Wilson. He helped lead Floydada to the district championship in both 1975 and 1976.

In 1977, Carthel moved up to the collegiate ranks, beginning at NCAA Division-III Dubuque University (Iowa). He was assistant head coach/defensive coordinator for the Spartans from 1977-79 and helped turn around a program that had won just three games in the previous four years combined. Carthel helped lead Dubuque to back-to-back Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (IIAC) championships in 1978 and 1979, as well as the NCAA playoffs. During 1979, DU was undefeated and ranked No. 3 in the country.

Carthel returned to the high school ranks in 1980, serving as defensive coordinator at Fort Worth's Boswell High School.

One season later, at the age of 28, Carthel became the youngest head coach in the country when he took over at Lubbock Christian College (now Lubbock Christian University), a position he held from 1981-82.

Carthel then moved on to become an assistant coach at the University of Texas-El Paso (UTEP) from 1983-84 before returning to his alma mater to serve as head coach from 1985-91.

While head coach at ENMU, Carthel helped the Greyhounds make the transition from NAIA to NCAA Division II, as they became one the top programs in the LSC. In 1985, during Carthel's first year at the helm, the Greyhounds faced powerhouse Texas A&I University (now Texas A&M University-Kingsville) in the season finale for a share of the LSC title. Despite narrowly losing that game, 21-17, the Greyhounds surged to the top of the LSC, claiming the conference crown in 1991 and becoming the first team outside of Texas to win the LSC championship in the conference's 59 years of football.

Carthel compiled a 44-28-1 (.610) ledger in his seven years at ENMU, winning seven or more games in five of his seven seasons, including opening the 1987 season with a 9-0 record and tying the school record for victories in a season. In five of Carthel's seven years, the Greyhounds were ranked in the Division II Top 20 Poll. In 2001, Carthel was honored with the induction into the ENMU Hall of Fame.

In January, 1992, Carthel resigned from coaching to return to Friona, where he farmed, raised his family and served on the Friona school board for nine years. However, Carthel could not stay away from coaching and became a volunteer coach for Abilene Christian.

During that time, his son, Colby, was a standout linebacker at Angelo State University, leading the Rams to the LSC South title in 1999. The younger Carthel would join the ACU staff in 2000 as the recruiting coordinator and defensive line coach. In Abilene, father and son enjoyed their first coaching stint on the same sideline, a scenario that would repeat itself in 2006 when Colby joined the WTAMU football staff as the Buffs' defensive coordinator.

The elder Carthel coached at ACU until 2004, when he was named the head coach and general manager of the Amarillo Dusters in their inaugural season in the Intense Football League. Amarillo posted a 15-3 record under Carthel and won the IFL Championship that year. The Dusters joined AFL2 in April of 2005 and had a 2-1 record when Carthel resigned to take the reins at West Texas A&M.

Carthel received honors from the Panhandle Sports Hall of Fame after the Buffs' sensational 2005 season. In addition, Carthel has garnered the Coach of the Year award from the IFL, as well as being named to the Panhandle Sports Hall of Fame in 2004 for leading the Dusters to the IFL crown. That honor accompanies his 1991 Panhandle Sports Hall of Fame Honor for leading the ENMU football program to the LSC Championship.

Born in Dimmitt, Texas,Carthel raised in Friona, where as a child, he and his brothers found rides to Canyon to watch both WT football and basketball games.

Carthel and his wife, the former Cindy Phillips, of Farwell, Texas, have two adult children, Colby and Courtney. Colby continues to accompany his father on the sidelines as WT's defensive coordinator and is married to Sarah (Butler) Carthel, an all-America volleyball player for the WT Lady Buffs and current assistant for WT's volleyball program. Courtney is married to Andrew Burgoon, principalat Canyon ISD's City View Elementary, and they have twin daughters, Kylie and Kyler, and a son, Kelton

[KRAM1]

Although we do need to get more money for the program, throwing money at the sitation is not the answer. We need a coach who can work under adverse circumstances. Hayden Fry was very much like that, and so was Corkey Nelson. This guy would also fit into that mould. This guy has pretty much won every time he has been in charge. He seems to always show up with his "I didn't come here to lose" t-shirt on.

Silver, loved the stuff on Coach Carthel. Many of us recall his great program and accomplishments. Thanks for the memories.

However, I need to mention that supporting UNT and its athletic program at this point in its history is in no way "throwing money at the situation". Supporting student athletes with scholarship money, supporting the alumni association, supporting the new stadium construction and building a "war chest" of funds to upgrade programs, coaching salaries, etc., etc. IS NOT throwing money at the situation. I am a bit surprised that you would, however, caution/oppose "throwing money at the situation" knowing your political bent and how your guys seem to be doing just that in DC these days! OK, that's a joke...no offense meant...just couldn't resist the temptation.

[meanrob]

Count me as one who doesn't like it. I'm all for putting the coach under pressure, especially one who hasn't met expectations but i don't see how a win total accomplishes that.

My biggest worry is that at the midpoint we have three wins and maybe Tune gives us a slightly bettter chance to win but obviously Thompson is the future. I know that is a hypothetical but I'd hate to see short term decisions made based on a line in the sand.

I'd rather just the word from RV get out that we have to be better, significantly better, or heads will roll. Just not sure about the win total thing.

Not to mention RV has just opened up a can of worms. He'll get a lot of questions if we are 6-5 going into that last game.

[KRAM1]

Count me as one who doesn't like it. I'm all for putting the coach under pressure, especially one who hasn't met expectations but i don't see how a win total accomplishes that.

My biggest worry is that at the midpoint we have three wins and maybe Tune gives us a slightly bettter chance to win but obviously Thompson is the future. I know that is a hypothetical but I'd hate to see short term decisions made based on a line in the sand.

I'd rather just the word from RV get out that we have to be better, significantly better, or heads will roll. Just not sure about the win total thing.

Not to mention RV has just opened up a can of worms. He'll get a lot of questions if we are 6-5 going into that last game.

Absolutely...and what about going 6-5 and getting to a bowl game??? Can of worms it is, but it's "our" can of worms. I am looking for a much higher win count this season...GO MEAN GREEN!

[GreenMachine]

Absolutely...and what about going 6-5 and getting to a bowl game??? Can of worms it is, but it's "our" can of worms. I am looking for a much higher win count this season...GO MEAN GREEN!

Like it or not, fair or not, there are coaches every year that get let go for consecutive 6 - 6 or 7 -5 seasons. I want 7 - 5 at the very least or RV needs to follow through on his word. Bringing in a new coach (or Canalas getting promoted) doesn't have to be another 3-4 year down period, especially opening a new stadium.

At work we have top sales people do an outstanding job signing deals and bringing in new business. Their production numbers are great and they get all their sales awards and bonuses. Then when budgeting time comes around, we ask them to increase their already high numbers an almost unobtainable amount. Of course they bitch and moan saying it can't be done but when they know that last years results don't mean squat and they can get let go for not reaching target, they bust butt and meet that incredible number.

My point: Do you think these sales people would have obtained the results they did if they weren't pushed way beyond what they would have done if there wasn't such high expectations? You expect the best, you get the best. Expect mediocrisy, you get mediocre performance, and so on..

[Will to Win]

If you mean Coaching! you've got the correct answer.

It's been coaching from day one. Bringing in an entire high school coaching staff was the BIGGEST mistake. That set us back

the most and have been trying to recover for a couple of years.

[All About UNT]

All this speculation is going around as to what if and what happens if this comes about..... the only thing you need to do is to get to the Rice Home Opener with no less than 5 people in tow...preferably 10. Drink your beers before the game but get your butt in the seat to let the guys know we are there and we want them to succeed. I've got my entourage for Rice...do you?

[KRAM1]

All this speculation is going around as to what if and what happens if this comes about..... the only thing you need to do is to get to the Rice Home Opener with no less than 5 people in tow...preferably 10. Drink your beers before the game but get your butt in the seat to let the guys know we are there and we want them to succeed. I've got my entourage for Rice...do you?

+1 for you. As small as my entourage is...I have it and we'll be there. Can't wait. I want to see a great UNT win and I want to see a super-sized crowd as well.

[gangrene]

Well, without doing any research, Turner Gill at Buffalo comes to mind, but I'm sure those circumstances were also so much different than UNT's that we should never hope to duplicate them. From wiki: "Gill agreed to a five-year contract to become the 23rd head football coach at the University at Buffalo on December 16, 2005. The Buffalo Bulls had gone 8-49 under previous coach Jim Hofher, and was considered "one of the three or four worst FBS programs in the nation when [Gill] took over."^[4] Under Gill, the Bulls improved each of the first three seasons, winning the Mid-American Conference championship in 2008."

But we should never expect that here, right?

So, you've named one coach out of how many teams and over how many years? And I don't think he's even a great example. How many winning seasons did Turner Gil have at Buffalo? One. He was 2-7 in year one, 5-6 in year two, 8-6 in year three and back to 5-7 in his last year at Buffalo. But, to answer your question, yes, it's fair for us expect the same thing...just not too realistic. If you think the standard expectation for a new coach (taking over a losing program) is a winning record in the second season, how many coaches should we expect to go through before we can find one that can accomplish that? Even the "great" Mack Brown couldn't turn Tulane or North Carolina into winning programs in less than 4 years. Steve Kragthorpe, a popular name on this board, won his second year at Tulsa, but couldn't repeat that success at Louisville. And the list goes on, for every coach that won in year two, there are four times as many that didn't. Expect all you want, just be prepared to be disappointed and in a state of constant change.

Bring back a coach who is 5-31 through three years...

And that's the real issue now isn't it? The simple fact that a 5-31 coach is back for year four tells everyone all they need to know about North Texas football (even with that added emphasis of a 7-win ultimatum). Which has more value to a HS recruit; a shiny, new stadium or a coach that will actually be around to coach your first college football game? Which is easier to sell a HS recruit; the idea that Dodge will suddenly turn a 2-10 team into a 7-5 team or the idea that the 2010 season will be his last at UNT?

Ah, I just love discussing who our next coach will be before we've even played a single game this season, much less made that coaching vacancy a reality. Maybe someone should start a countdown timer to count down the days until Dodge gets the boot? That would be a nice, positive start to the football season. I'm sure all the recruits, players, coaches and their family and friends (and, yes, many of them do read this board) would love to see that written here.

[GrandGreen]

I think NT tried to save face by giving an ultimatum. Whether they didn't have the money for a buyout or wanted to give Dodge another year, it was obviously to me RV wasn't ready to make a coaching change at the end of last year. If the AD was serious about changing coaches; he never would have made a big deal about reviewing the coach at the end of the football season. He would have had another coach's commitment or at least had a close to sure thing new head coach ready to take over. That is the main reason I was for giving Dodge another year at that point, the last thing the program needed was a prolonged coach search which would have likely ended with a mediocre or worst result.

RV made an enormous gamble on hiring Dodge. I like most thought it was worth the chance until I saw what he assembled for a coaching staff and how badly what should have been a descent defense played. NT did get excellent press for a couple of years until it was obvious that the coaching staff was in way over their heads. It became impossible to defend the hire when the third year team won only two games. The fact was however the team was actually significantly improved despite the record. The compromise was giving a public 7 game ultimatum in lieu of firing. I do think it was a questionable decision, everyone knows that another bad year and Dodge is gone. I doubt it effects recruiting one way or another, but it does create an unnecessary distraction that might prove troublesome. What happens if NT goes 1-7 and is competitive in every game and finishes the season with four crushing wins? The coaching decision would be easy without considering that in effect Dodge should be fired based on a preseason ultimatum. I have no doubt Dodge would be signed up for at least a three year contract extension based on that scenario, but yet the AD has put himself in an unneeded box.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I don't understand debating on whether or not to bring a coach back after this season when we have yet to play a down of football?

Is Coach Dodge the coach of the future? I hope so. Does 6-6, or even 5-7 bring him back next year? Who knows what this year could hold? I don't know... His team's results will dictate that and regardless of how you feel about him, everyone here on this board should be rooting for the MEAN GREEN to win every game. I'm pretty sure that is the case with all of us.

Say we start 5-1 with a sole loss to Clemson, then Dunbar,Santiago,Robertson & Tune/Thompson all go down with freak, season-ending injuries in game 7 and we lose out...but we're competitive. What then? Reprieve? I would hope so! We don't know the circumstances of the upcoming season. Let's just show up and support the green. If Coach Dodge deserves to stay, it will make itself apparent. If he needs to go, it will make itself apparent.

GO COACH DODGE! GO MEAN GREEN!