How Texas Became A Power & How It Relates To Unt

[MeanGreen61]

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/archives/2010/08/how-texas-became-a-power-and-h.html

[Harry]

There are some similarities in terms of the plan but of course Texas has tradition and tremendous resources to bear. It's an interesting comparison, but North Texas has unique aspects to it's alumni and student population which make it a different situation. I believe the stadium was a big step in the right direction. The next will have to be the investment in the football coaching staff and I include Dodge and every single assistant. You can't have a situation where your coaches turnover as much as ours have in the past 10 years. After that, the academic support team which is made available to the players must be the focus. It is all about making North Texas as great a place for the elite athlete as you possibly can. The biggest hurdle remains the BCS and the inequities it harbors. When schools like Kansas State, Iowa State and the like can come and outduel us for players who would prefer to be closer to home something is unfair. I think we should study places like U of Houston and what they have accomplished in recent years. Texas they are not but they are getting quality recruits and transfers to stay closer to home and it is showing up on the field.

[SilverEagle]

Texas just "adjusted" their marketing stratagy and took off into overdrive. They always had the "image" and "attitude". They've also had decades of cranking out Lawyers and Doctors (and other high paying professionals) to give back to the school.

North Texas has only recently begun taking another run at changing it's culture. The first attempt at changing our culture was when Hayden Fry was here. After he left, we slipped back into "the best little teacher's school in Texas" attitude. Get a copy of The Story of North Texas and read about our early Presidents and their attitudes about athletics at North Texas. That attitude lasted all the way through Dr. Matthews...who DISCOURAGED any sort of outside fund raising for athletics.

Once the culture changes about "giving" to athletics, we'll see how much potential the school really has. We've had many successful people graduate from North Texas through the years, but athletics has not been allowed to approach many of these people. They've been reserved for "other projects" through the years.

[Green Mean]

That was a pointless article if you ask me. So basically their secret recipe for success was raising money, built very nice facilities and and hired great coaches for two money making sports. Well that is no secret because everybody tries to do that. Do we forget that we hired a HS football coach? So there is no similarities whatsoever between either program other than having Texas part of our names.

And let's not forget that Texas has never had apathetic fans and they have always been the state university of this state. Not to mention the Longhorn brand is easily identifiable...probably top couple in the country. It must have been a slow day for good ol Bret and this is what he could come up with.

[drex]

Texas athletic administrators are also number one in the nation in 'looking the other way' in terms of their athlete's lives and/ or discretions.

[UNTLifer]

There are some similarities in terms of the plan but of course Texas has tradition and tremendous resources to bear. It's an interesting comparison, but North Texas has unique aspects to it's alumni and student population which make it a different situation. I believe the stadium was a big step in the right direction. The next will have to be the investment in the football coaching staff and I include Dodge and every single assistant. You can't have a situation where your coaches turnover as much as ours have in the past 10 years. After that, the academic support team which is made available to the players must be the focus. It is all about making North Texas as great a place for the elite athlete as you possibly can. The biggest hurdle remains the BCS and the inequities it harbors. When schools like Kansas State, Iowa State and the like can come and outduel us for players who would prefer to be closer to home something is unfair. I think we should study places like U of Houston and what they have accomplished in recent years. Texas they are not but they are getting quality recruits and transfers to stay closer to home and it is showing up on the field.

Very good points, and I would also add the inequality in how the state historically funded Texas, Texas A&M and then all the other state suppported schools. I'm not sure U of H is a good comparison. They still have the notch in their belt of being a part of the SWC which puts them a nod above us in many peoples eyes. Our conference affiliations, or lack thereof, is really what hurts us in the public's eye. Houston's facilities, on a whole, will be behind NT's once the stadium is completed, and their basketball facilities are abysmal, although their new AD is trying to change this. The SWC and Phi Slamma Jamma still carry a lot of weight in many peoples eyes.

North Texas really hurt themselves when Fry left and the administration pretty much gave up properly funding the program and allowing us to drop to 1AA. We basically went from the verge of the SWC and Top Twenty rankings to poor coaching decisions, losing seasons and being group with the likes of SFA, Sam Houston, Northwestern (La) State, etc... Nothing against those schools, but when your aspirations had you playing alongside the likes of UT, A&M, TTech, etc... one day and the next your playing against the schools listed above, public opinion is sure to slide.

[untgeorge]

That was a pointless article if you ask me. So basically their secret recipe for success was raising money, built very nice facilities and and hired great coaches for two money making sports. Well that is no secret because everybody tries to do that. Do we forget that we hired a HS football coach? So there is no similarities whatsoever between either program other than having Texas part of our names.

And let's not forget that Texas has never had apathetic fans and they have always been the state university of this state. Not to mention the Longhorn brand is easily identifiable...probably top couple in the country. It must have been a slow day for good ol Bret and this is what he could come up with.

Texas was a national power long before Deloss Dodds, no matter how much Dodds thinks of himself. What would be more interesting is an article on how Boise raised itself to a national power.

[LongJim]

This thread won't end well.

[PlummMeanGreen]

An 1870's Texas legislature creating UT as one of 2 universities under the (then) newly created Permanent University Fund(which became quite rich largely because of oil, Texas tea, black gold, etc) has always set them (and TAMU) apart from the rest of us.

We will do well to still (after all these years since our 1890 beginning) continue to develop our own identity and do the best we can with the resources we have. I do know oil & gas can be a fairly quick game changer. I only wish our campus were sitting on top the "gas rich" Barnett Shale which has made many of my fellow Parker County-ites quite well to do. Many of that group quite deserving, though.

Back on point: I know we should never say never, but because of the P.U.F. that alone will keep the rest of us from ever duplicating the vastness or scope of our state's 2 flagship universities: UT and TAMU. Doesn't mean the rest of us, ie, UH, Texas Tech, the Texas State University System and the UNT System should by no means wave the white flag. We have all contributed quite admirably to our great state of Texas--the PUF merely gave UT & TAMU a 50 yard head start in this 100 yard dash.

GMG!

[Green Mean]

Texas athletic administrators are also number one in the nation in 'looking the other way' in terms of their athlete's lives and/ or discretions.

As long as you win and make money for the rest of the school it doesn't matter. I would take that in a new york minute. I will sacrifice a few student athletes if it means the elevation of every other program in the school and the image of the rest of the school. It's people that F their lives up, not athletic programs.

[Green Dozer]

Texas was a national power long before Deloss Dodds, no matter how much Dodds thinks of himself. What would be more interesting is an article on how Boise raised itself to a national power.

When you talk just football, you are correct. But it is all the other sports that finally started getting proper funding to be competitive and he can take credit for it.

[greenminer]

In before the lockdown.

[eulesseagle]

An 1870's Texas legislature creating UT as one of 2 universities under the (then) newly created Permanent University Fund(which became quite rich largely because of oil, Texas tea, black gold, etc) has always set them (and TAMU) apart from the rest of us.

We will do well to still (after all these years since our 1890 beginning) continue to develop our own identity and do the best we can with the resources we have. I do know oil & gas can be a fairly quick game changer. I only wish our campus were sitting on top the "gas rich" Barnett Shale which has made many of my fellow Parker County-ites quite well to do. Many of that group quite deserving, though.

Back on point: I know we should never say never, but because of the P.U.F. that alone will keep the rest of us from ever duplicating the vastness or scope of our state's 2 flagship universities: UT and TAMU. Doesn't mean the rest of us, ie, UH, Texas Tech, the Texas State University System and the UNT System should by no means wave the white flag. We have all contributed quite admirably to our great state of Texas--the PUF merely gave UT & TAMU a 50 yard head start in this 100 yard dash.

GMG!

Rip Van Winkle returns.....Unfortunately, your post was not long enough......welcome back Jim.

[untjim1995]

What I would like for UNT to model itself after is looking a combination of schools. UH is a huge public school that serves the biggest city in Texas, while we serve the biggest metro are in the state in DFW. It seems that UH and Rice don't hold as much animosity for each other, unlike us, as we deal with the DFW private schools, especially SMU. I think we could learn something there. I think we could learn even more from Texas Tech. Yes, they have ALWAYS been taken care of by UT, A&M, and the legislature, and maybe that is purely due to their location, but they have grown light years farther than I ever expected to see their programs get up to. Texas Tech has beaten Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Nebraska many times over the last decade. Think about that for a second. They are playing top programs AND having success. Maybe that will go away now that the Pirate is off the sidelines, but I am soooo jealous of the level that Tech has raised its football team to over the last decade. And, outside of the state of Texas, I would really keep following the Southern Miss plan, which I believe RV has done very well over the last decade. The main difference, of course, is that they have had good football coaches and we have not during his tenure. But, I think that they have carved out a great reputation even though they are third fiddle in their small state, which has got to be similar to our standing in Texas right now.

[Harry]

I think the Pirate has had as much do with the revival at Tech as anything.

[GrandGreen]

Very good points, and I would also add the inequality in how the state historically funded Texas, Texas A&M and then all the other state suppported schools. I'm not sure U of H is a good comparison. They still have the notch in their belt of being a part of the SWC which puts them a nod above us in many peoples eyes. Our conference affiliations, or lack thereof, is really what hurts us in the public's eye. Houston's facilities, on a whole, will be behind NT's once the stadium is completed, and their basketball facilities are abysmal, although their new AD is trying to change this. The SWC and Phi Slamma Jamma still carry a lot of weight in many peoples eyes.

North Texas really hurt themselves when Fry left and the administration pretty much gave up properly funding the program and allowing us to drop to 1AA. We basically went from the verge of the SWC and Top Twenty rankings to poor coaching decisions, losing seasons and being group with the likes of SFA, Sam Houston, Northwestern (La) State, etc... Nothing against those schools, but when your aspirations had you playing alongside the likes of UT, A&M, TTech, etc... one day and the next your playing against the schools listed above, public opinion is sure to slide.

You bring up the point that I think hurts NT more than any other. The fact for most of it's athletic life, NT has been isolated from their Texas rivals. The only other fb division team that was not part of the good ole boy SWC was UTEP and their location had a lot to do with it. It's not often mentioned but I think NT's early integration certainly played a part in this isolation. However poor leadership and lack of political power were probably bigger lasting problems. I think there are still a lot of older fans that still link Texas football and the SWC. NT wasn't good enough then and it is not now. Even years after the collapse of the SWC, even those schools that didn't get in the Big Twelve still are though of as bigger time programs than they are.

With the exception of TCU, who definitely left CUSA to separate themselves, all the other Texas teams are nestled in Texas dominated conferences. Only NT remains alone not by choice, the same status it had in the Big West and a lot of the time in the MVC. After Houston left, NT was along in the MVC until WTSU joined in a failing effort to keep MVC football alive.

I don't think it is even a conscious thing with a lot of college football fans. They just associate NT with something lower than the old SWC teams. Not a knock on the Belt, because without it; NT would really be in a jam, but being in the newest conference just adds to the perception that NT is Texas second rate.

Winning will cure all, and at last IMO NT is doing the things that should turn the tide. NT first order of business should be to dominate the Belt. I really think that NT can do that relativily quickly. NT should in a very short time even with the lion's share of the new athletic fees going for debt service, have the highest budget in the Belt. That added to the location and academic standing of the university should make many Belt fans wish that NT was in another leauge.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Texas just "adjusted" their marketing stratagy and took off into overdrive. They always had the "image" and "attitude". They've also had decades of cranking out Lawyers and Doctors (and other high paying professionals) to give back to the school.

North Texas has only recently begun taking another run at changing it's culture. The first attempt at changing our culture was when Hayden Fry was here. After he left, we slipped back into "the best little teacher's school in Texas" attitude. Get a copy of The Story of North Texas and read about our early Presidents and their attitudes about athletics at North Texas. That attitude lasted all the way through Dr. Matthews...who DISCOURAGED any sort of outside fund raising for athletics.

Once the culture changes about "giving" to athletics, we'll see how much potential the school really has. We've had many successful people graduate from North Texas through the years, but athletics has not been allowed to approach many of these people. They've been reserved for "other projects" through the years.

So true...that book (The Story of North Texas) by Dr. Rogers somewhat tells it all as far as why we have seemedly had to beat our heads against the wall while moving at a snail's pace as far as athletic advancement in Denton was concerned. Only recently came to a conclusion that one can spend almost his entire adult life with all this wanting more (while still getting the same or worse....getting less).

Yet......in so many ways, that new stadium presently being built between those 2 major Texas interstates (are there really any "minor" interstates out there?) and at the top of the DFW Metroplex golden triangle could be such a terrific game-changer for us all. (Of course, I can still secretly lament that I wish this would have been built 25 years ago which would have us in a totally different conference neighborhood today & not just wishing and hoping. Guess it's as they always say, though: Better late than never?

GMG!

[CMJ]

This thread won't end well.

[UNTflyer]

I only wish our campus were sitting on top the "gas rich" Barnett Shale

GMG!

It is, but here's why it will never happen...

1. Students will protest any new drilling on campus.

2. Any drilling projects in the athletic village will probably need the approval of the Denia residents. At the very least, we'd have to share some of the revenue.

3. We're North Texas. We always find a way to thwart success.

[UNTLifer]

Easily fixed. Once this season is completed, let one of the gas companies drill the 50 yard line of Fouts. You can keep the track around it to still hold meets, the stadium would serve as a visual buffer and in the event of an explosion, the stands would keep everything contained. Drill here, drill in 2011!

[untgeorge]

It wasn't just football. Texas has 39 ncaa championships. Baseball, women's basketball and several non-revenue sports, such as swimming and diving, have historically been strong. For instance, texas has been to the final games of the college baseball world series 10 times and has won it 5 times.

Dodds is a marketing and fund raising genius. And under his watch men's basketball has reached a level it had not enjoyed before. But overall he is hardly responsible for making UT a national power.

Still, except for what i read as Dodds patting himself on the back, the article could hold lessons for us. To get ahead we have to have more alumni involvement, meaning tickets and fund raising.

Which gets me to my original point: what would be more interesting for us and meaningful for us is, how did Boise do it?

[Harry]

Agreed George, Boise may be the best example for us to follow. If only we could Denton and the surrounding communities....

[EagleD]

Texas athletic administrators are also number one in the nation in 'looking the other way' in terms of their athlete's lives and/ or discretions.

Respectfully disagree. They are up there, maybe top ten, but not #1. There are a few schools in the SEC and in Florida I'd put above Texas. Also USC.

[emmitt01]

Respectfully disagree. They are up there, maybe top ten, but not #1. There are a few schools in the SEC and in Florida I'd put above Texas. Also USC.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/five-longhorns-jailed-this-season

I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin.

[EagleD]

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/five-longhorns-jailed-this-season

I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin.

The argument wasn't whether some players have had legal problems, the argument was that UT looks the other way. Of the five players mentioned in the article, only 2 are still on the team and charges were dropped against one of them. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin.