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Dickey Vs. Dodge

Will to Win

By Will to Win
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Will to Win Newbie

Will to Win

Posted
Posted

Was Dickey really that good to win 4 straight conference titles and everyone else was that bad?

Is Dodge really no that bad and everyone else is really that good?

2001-02 5-6 loss bowl game vs. Colorado St. 5-7 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2002-03 7-5 won bowl game vs. Cinncinnati 8-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2003-04 9-3 loss bowl game vs. Memphis 9-4 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2004-05 7-4 loss bowl game vs. Southern Miss 7-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2005-06 2-9 (Dickey)

2006-07 3-9 (Dickey)

2007-08 2-10 (Dodge)

2008-09 1-11 (Dodge)

2009-10 2-10 (Dodge)

2010-11 5-7 (prediction) Dodge avg (2 wins) Canalas (will add 2 wins) DeLoach (will add 1 win) 5 win total.

2011-12 7-4 (prediction) Canalas takes over as Head Coach for UNT (FIRST WINNING SEASON IN 7 YEARS)

[Possible bowl game invite]

2012-2013 9-3 (Canalas) bowl win game vs. Tulsa 10-3 Then lose Canalas to a bigger school in PAC ?? conference.

  • Upvote 3
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Censored by Laurie Veteran

Censored by Laurie

Posted
Posted

This is sure to be a dispassionate, reasonable discussion.

Reagan vs. Obama: Who's better?

Apt comparison. Reagan had multiple heart attacks while in office and Dodge was born a Kenyan Muslim.

  • Upvote 4
  • Downvote 2
UNT86 Mentor

UNT86

Posted
Posted

To me, the biggest difference is the type of offense each coach ran.

We have always had trouble recruiting quality skill kids, especially quarterbacks.

The offense Coach Dickey ran was 2 tight ends (sometimes 3), and 2 backs. The QB didn't have to do much, just don't lose the game. We usually had one good WR and would get lots of single coverage and would take an occasional shot downfield. Third and long was a draw and a punt. I know everyone remembers "Throw the ball, Dickey" from the stands. But, we were not 117th in the nation in turnovers.

Coach Dodge has completely turned over the roster. He has gone the way of the one back/spread despite our traditional lack of ability to recruit those kinds of players. I think we finally have a QB to run the offense, although he is just a sophomore. But, when you run a spread offense, you are going to expose your defense to more opportunities from our opponents. I'll bet our defense is on the field for at least 25-30 plays more every game under Dodge than they were under Dickey. But, hey, at least we throw the ball on third down...right?

Coach Dickey was boring, but he won. Coach Dodge is more mainstreem, but can he win at NT doing so. He finally has his recruits in place (he was at a severe disadvantage the first year), so we should see a big step in the right direction.

My hope is that he can get it done. I have become a fan of his over the last few years. I have no doubt that he took the job thinking that he could win and move on. Thas is fine with me, because the first part in that is WIN.

KRAM1 Rookie

KRAM1

Posted
Posted

Man, how great is this? We must be getting closer to football season as there is a Dickey Vs. Dodge thread. Be still my heart! The King is dead...long live the King!

Time to tee it up and strap it on for some Mean Green football!

GO MEAN GREEN!

untjim1995 Grand Master

untjim1995

Posted
Posted

To me, the biggest difference is the type of offense each coach ran.

We have always had trouble recruiting quality skill kids, especially quarterbacks.

The offense Coach Dickey ran was 2 tight ends (sometimes 3), and 2 backs. The QB didn't have to do much, just don't lose the game. We usually had one good WR and would get lots of single coverage and would take an occasional shot downfield. Third and long was a draw and a punt. I know everyone remembers "Throw the ball, Dickey" from the stands. But, we were not 117th in the nation in turnovers.

Coach Dodge has completely turned over the roster. He has gone the way of the one back/spread despite our traditional lack of ability to recruit those kinds of players. I think we finally have a QB to run the offense, although he is just a sophomore. But, when you run a spread offense, you are going to expose your defense to more opportunities from our opponents. I'll bet our defense is on the field for at least 25-30 plays more every game under Dodge than they were under Dickey. But, hey, at least we throw the ball on third down...right?

Coach Dickey was boring, but he won. Coach Dodge is more mainstreem, but can he win at NT doing so. He finally has his recruits in place (he was at a severe disadvantage the first year), so we should see a big step in the right direction.

My hope is that he can get it done. I have become a fan of his over the last few years. I have no doubt that he took the job thinking that he could win and move on. Thas is fine with me, because the first part in that is WIN.

Dickey didn't really win--he had 3 winning seasons out of 9. Dodge hasn't come even close to finishing wihtin miles of .500. They both have been severe disappointments in my mind. It doesn't always have to be a comparison between the two. Neither have really fit at UNT, for different reasons. Really, other than Fry and Corky Nelson, no coach has had much success at UNT of significant note over the last 35 years or so. But, in their defense, the administration, alumni, and students didn't really help on this until the last 8 years or so.

  • Upvote 2
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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

Posted
Posted

Dickey could coach but was a public relations nightmare and was IMO a poor recruiter. Dodge wasn't anywhere close to being ready to coach fb division football but is a better recruiter and at least spins positive. Dickey's early Belt success was based primarily on better talent and a football philosophy that was great when facing inferior teams. I know the better talent and poor recruiting are counter intuitive, but somehow DD got that 2001 class that dominated the Belt. The class of Hall, Buckles, Gardner, Kennedy, Spencer, Brewster, Zuniga, etc. may have been the best class in NT history. Based on the success that class spawned, DD though not ever coming close to matching that talent was able to add enough to keep NT successful till that group finished.

Point is, if NT had a coach with Dickey's knowledge and Dodge's work ethic and public relations skill, they would have a good coach. Dodge has one more chance for success and hopefully through a brutal learning process, he is ready.

  • Upvote 1
eulesseagle Newbie

eulesseagle

Posted
Posted

What really pisses me off is that this thread will always remain in the football forum while the "I'm Not Saying" thread wallows around in the lower forums.

Damn you, Ann Richards.

Ann Richards or Phyllis George.....I'm just sayin'?

DirtySavage Newbie

DirtySavage

Posted
Posted

After playing for both men I believe they are both extreemly skilled football minds, just on two complete extreems of the spectrum. They both have their flaws though, and have suffered because of them. I would like to argue the comment that dickey lacked skilled qb's though. Scott Hall or Andrew Smith could have run dodges offense better than anyone he's recruited or played so far. But for the sake of my Alma mater I hope to god we win some games this year! Go Mean Green!!!

  • Upvote 3
  • 1 month later...
Will to Win Newbie

Will to Win

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Was Dickey really that good to win 4 straight conference titles and everyone else was that bad?

Is Dodge really no that bad and everyone else is really that good?

2001-02 5-6 loss bowl game vs. Colorado St. 5-7 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2002-03 7-5 won bowl game vs. Cinncinnati 8-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2003-04 9-3 loss bowl game vs. Memphis 9-4 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2004-05 7-4 loss bowl game vs. Southern Miss 7-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2005-06 2-9 (Dickey)

2006-07 3-9 (Dickey)

2007-08 2-10 (Dodge)

2008-09 1-11 (Dodge)

2009-10 2-10 (Dodge)

2010-11 5-7 (prediction) Dodge avg (2 wins) Canalas (will add 2 wins) DeLoach (will add 1 win) 5 win total.

2011-12 7-4 (prediction) Canalas takes over as Head Coach for UNT (FIRST WINNING SEASON IN 7 YEARS)

[Possible bowl game invite]

2012-2013 9-3 (Canalas) bowl win game vs. Tulsa 10-3 Then lose Canalas to a bigger school in PAC ?? conference.

September 1, 2010

What is reasonable to expect in terms of Canales' impact

5:40 AM Wed, Sep 01, 2010 | Permalink

Brett Vito E-mail News tips

There are always reasons for hope heading into any college football season. All 120 teams in the land believe this could be their breakout year for one reason or another.

New quarterback. New head coach. A bunch of returning starters.

Or in UNT's case, Mike Canales.

There are other reasons for hope for UNT, including having a bunch of guys back, Tyler Stradford being eligible this year and UNT's defense having another year with Gary DeLoach, but the arrival of a new offensive coordinator is the one UNT is really hanging its hat on.

It reminds me a little bit of the season when DeLoach arrived. UNT is still waiting on the Mean Green's defense to regain its 2002 form that some thought would return much sooner, although UNT has improved.

That fact alone makes one wonder: Can Canales really make that big a difference right away, especially considering it took another really good coach like DeLoach a while to produce tangible results?

Yes, I think he can.

If you look at what UNT asked both guys to do, the difference is pretty substantial.

Basically, it comes down to this: What Canales inherited is a whole lot better than what DeLoach was left with.

DeLoach inherited the Ron Mendoza mess and a defensive roster that had been pretty much ignored for a while in recruiting. UNT is just starting to dig out of that hole.

What Canales took over was a whole lot better, even though UNT has made a mess out of its quarterback situation the last couple of years. UNT has some playmakers at wide receiver, Lance Dunbar and a good offensive line.

UNT isn't asking for a miracle from Canales like it did from DeLoach. All Canales has to do is take what was a pretty good offense and make it better by eliminating such gems as the option of the end zone against Troy, the fourth-and-1 shotgun slow developing running play and add some variety to what often seemed like pretty bland and predictable play-calling. That shouldn't be much of a problem for Canales.

He should make a pretty big impact, a much bigger one than one could see from DeLoach early on because he is in a much better position to start.

I was talking to a former UNT coach who showed up at practice last week who said Canles ought to be worth two wins this season. That doesn't seem all that unreasonable.

The question will be if he takes UNT from two wins to four or four to six of five to seven.

OldTimer Newbie

OldTimer

Posted
Posted

Was Dickey really that good to win 4 straight conference titles and everyone else was that bad?

Is Dodge really no that bad and everyone else is really that good?

If you are going to compare Dickey with Dodge be truthfull and start with DD's first years instead of starting with his 4 year

1998 W3 Lost 8

1999 w2 lost 9

2000 w3 lost 8

2001-02 5-6 loss bowl game vs. Colorado St. 5-7 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2002-03 7-5 won bowl game vs. Cinncinnati 8-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2003-04 9-3 loss bowl game vs. Memphis 9-4 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2004-05 7-4 loss bowl game vs. Southern Miss 7-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2005-06 2-9 (Dickey)

2006-07 3-9 (Dickey)

2007-08 2-10 (Dodge)

2008-09 1-11 (Dodge)

2009-10 2-10 (Dodge)

2010-11 5-7 (prediction) Dodge avg (2 wins) Canalas (will add 2 wins) DeLoach (will add 1 win) 5 win total.

2011-12 7-4 (prediction) Canalas takes over as Head Coach for UNT (FIRST WINNING SEASON IN 7 YEARS)

[Possible bowl game invite]

2012-2013 9-3 (Canalas) bowl win game vs. Tulsa 10-3 Then lose Canalas to a bigger school in PAC ?? conference.

OldTimer Newbie

OldTimer

Posted
Posted

Was Dickey really that good to win 4 straight conference titles and everyone else was that bad?

Is Dodge really no that bad and everyone else is really that good?

2001-02 5-6 loss bowl game vs. Colorado St. 5-7 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2002-03 7-5 won bowl game vs. Cinncinnati 8-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2003-04 9-3 loss bowl game vs. Memphis 9-4 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2004-05 7-4 loss bowl game vs. Southern Miss 7-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2005-06 2-9 (Dickey)

2006-07 3-9 (Dickey)

2007-08 2-10 (Dodge)

2008-09 1-11 (Dodge)

2009-10 2-10 (Dodge)

2010-11 5-7 (prediction) Dodge avg (2 wins) Canalas (will add 2 wins) DeLoach (will add 1 win) 5 win total.

2011-12 7-4 (prediction) Canalas takes over as Head Coach for UNT (FIRST WINNING SEASON IN 7 YEARS)

[Possible bowl game invite]

2012-2013 9-3 (Canalas) bowl win game vs. Tulsa 10-3 Then lose Canalas to a bigger school in PAC ?? conference.

PlummMeanGreen Grand Master

PlummMeanGreen

Posted
Posted (edited)

:innocent:

If Canales is such a hot property, why doesn't he already have a head football coaching gig? We of UNT are not the best at picking HFC's who take us to the level befitting what one past UNT coach laid out as worthy (higher profile) goals for our school. Folks, we are closing in on 40,000 students, lets start acting like it. If we don't some of you Young Gun Alums are going to wake up & suddenly be 60 years of age and asking yourselves: What the hell have we been doing up here the last 30 years anyhow?

DD won 5 in his 4'th year in the inaugural year of the SBC so...........before this forum starts replacing Dodge, seriously, lets at least wait till most of the SBC conference in Dodge's 4'th season is done. We sorta' owe him that in light of recent, past scenarios, right? No matter what happens, we also need not to hack off Texas HS Football Coach's Association with their perception of how we treated one of their more successful collegues, ie, Todd Dodge, right? Our recruiters still need to be welcome at the majority of Texas HS campuses in other words.

I think TDodge probably has to win 6 or win the SBC because in many ways, the stakes are higher now inasmuch as this school (after almost 40 years--post NT Prez' Jitter Nolen)) has made a (more than the usual lip service) committment to the future with an approximate $100 million stadium committment (which is probably what it will be after its all done,said & completed) and that out at our fabulous Mean Green Athletic Village. If CUSA visits us for possible future openings & if turned down, I think we would all want to know why UNT does not fit their criteria this time around leaving all the political bull-crapola out of that discussion; especially in light of what UNT can do to deliver actual TV ratings in a huge market brimming full of people connected with the UNT community.

If Dodge doesn't git'r done, we move on & hire a new coach that I hope the UNT Holy Tribunal of our Prez, our AD and hired hand consultant have much deliberation & discussion. No one at any level at UNT should have a lifetime contract for the continuoul perserverance of blantant & obvious mediocrity. We (still) are not a retirement center for good ol' boys.

GMG!

Edited by PlummMeanGreen
OldTimer Newbie

OldTimer

Posted
Posted

Was Dickey really that good to win 4 straight conference titles and everyone else was that bad?

Is Dodge really no that bad and everyone else is really that good?

**************************************************************************

Reply: If you are going to compare records to be fair start with DD's first years:

1998 w3 lost 8

1999 w2 lost 9

2000 w3 lost 8

Plus Dodge inherited a APR loss of players, 15 players who tested positive for drugs and 2 players complaining racial discrimination...(I'm sure our old timers remember one of them cussing out a coach on the sidelines of a game in process....it could be heard in the stands.

Plus DD's last years on the job... 2005 won 2 lost 9 and 2006 won 2-lost 10 instead of getting better or continuing better years.

DD's early record

2001-02 5-6 loss bowl game vs. Colorado St. 5-7 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2002-03 7-5 won bowl game vs. Cinncinnati 8-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2003-04 9-3 loss bowl game vs. Memphis 9-4 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2004-05 7-4 loss bowl game vs. Southern Miss 7-5 Conference Champs (Dickey)

2005-06 2-9 (Dickey)

2006-07 3-9 (Dickey)

2007-08 2-10 (Dodge)

2008-09 1-11 (Dodge)

2009-10 2-10 (Dodge)

2010-11 5-7 (prediction) Dodge avg (2 wins) Canalas (will add 2 wins) DeLoach (will add 1 win) 5 win total.

2011-12 7-4 (prediction) Canalas takes over as Head Coach for UNT (FIRST WINNING SEASON IN 7 YEARS)

[Possible bowl game invite]

2012-2013 9-3 (Canalas) bowl win game vs. Tulsa 10-3 Then lose Canalas to a bigger school in PAC ?? conference.

The Fake Lonnie Finch Newbie

The Fake Lonnie Finch

Posted
Posted (edited)

Why do we constantly do this? Darrell Dickey was a good coach for his time here. Honest Mean Green fans will admit that he built up a program and took it places it hadn't been. He had health problems his last two seasons and, unfortunately, clashed with his boss and a fan base his success had spoiled.

Todd Dodge was hired to pick of the pieces and rebuild. In three seasons, he hasn't done it. In year four, finally with the help of a full compliment of experience college coaches, I think he will succeed and take to the same heights Darrell Dickey once did.

Also, for a coach denigrated here often for running too much, it's worth noting that Johnny Quinn, who played for Darrell Dickey all four seasons, is still the All-Time Sun Belt leader in receiving yards: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/sun-belt/leaders/rec-yds-player-career.html

Just quit bickering about the two men. Be proud of the championships we won with Dickey and look forward to the ones we'll win with Dodge beginning this year. I've never seen a fanbase so opposed to acknowledging past successes as this one. So stupid.

Edited by The Fake Lonnie Finch
  • Upvote 4
MeanGreenTexan Grand Master

MeanGreenTexan

Posted
Posted

Why do we constantly do this? Darrell Dickey was a good coach for his time here. Honest Mean Green fans will admit that he built up a program and took it places it hadn't been. He had health problems his last to seasons and, unfortunately, clashed with his boss and a fan base his success had spoiled.

Todd Dodge was hired to pick of the pieces and rebuild. In three seasons, he hasn't done it. In year four, finally with the help of a full compliment of experience college coaches, I think he will succeed and take to the same heights Darrell Dickey once did.

Also, for a coach denigrated here often for running too much, it's worth noting that Johnny Quinn, who played for Darrell Dickey all four seasons, is still the All-Time Sun Belt leader in receiving yards: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/sun-belt/leaders/rec-yds-player-career.html

Just quit bickering about the two men. Be proud of the championships we won with Dickey and look forward to the ones we'll win with Dodge beginning this year. I've never seen a fanbase so opposed to acknowledging past successes as this one. So stupid.

:clapping: Bravo sir.

Lurker Apprentice

Lurker

Posted
Posted (edited)

Why do we constantly do this? Darrell Dickey was a good coach for his time here. Honest Mean Green fans will admit that he built up a program and took it places it hadn't been. He had health problems his last to seasons and, unfortunately, clashed with his boss and a fan base his success had spoiled.

Todd Dodge was hired to pick of the pieces and rebuild. In three seasons, he hasn't done it. In year four, finally with the help of a full compliment of experience college coaches, I think he will succeed and take to the same heights Darrell Dickey once did.

Also, for a coach denigrated here often for running too much, it's worth noting that Johnny Quinn, who played for Darrell Dickey all four seasons, is still the All-Time Sun Belt leader in receiving yards: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/sun-belt/leaders/rec-yds-player-career.html

Just quit bickering about the two men. Be proud of the championships we won with Dickey and look forward to the ones we'll win with Dodge beginning this year. I've never seen a fanbase so opposed to acknowledging past successes as this one. So stupid.

So..... you are saying we should just win with a coach and be happy with it? I like that plan! Especially the winning part. Let it begin!

+1

Edited by Lurker

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