Why Things Never Get Done In Denton

[SUMG]

It's the same thing....time after time...after time around this city.

On one day, the city or a developer will announce plans for a new project.

Within a day or two, the Denton paper will have the headlines: "Concerns Expressed Over New Project."

They just announced plans to spruce up Downtown....that headline (or something similar) is in today's D-RC.

So if it's Rayzor Ranch, new rail, Downtown, Fry Street....widening Bonnie Brae, a new hotel/convention center....this town never gets any projects off the ground (or seldom does)....because there are always people fighting them every step of the way.

If UNT was in a progressive town like Plano or Frisco....we'd probably be in the Big 12 (exaggeration....but maybe you get my point).

Edited July 9, 2010 by SUMG

[Army of Dad]

It's the same thing....time after time...after time around this city.

On one day, the city or a developer will announce plans for a new project.

Within a day or two, the Denton paper will have the headlines: "Concerns Expressed Over New Project."

They just announced plans to spruce up Downtown....that headline (or something similar) is in today's D-RC.

So if it's Rayzor Ranch, new rail, Downtown, Fry Street....widening Bonnie Brae, a new hotel/convention center....this town never gets any projects off the ground (or seldom does)....because there are always people fighting them every step of the way.

If UNT was in a progressive town like Plano or Frisco....we'd probably be in the Big 12 (exaggeration....but maybe you get my point).

Rayzor Ranch is messed up because of the company's bad finances.

The rail is DCTA. Fry Street is, well Fry Street and I don't know why the private company was in such a hurry to knock everything down to leave an empty lot there.

As much as I disagree with the city on many issues I don’t see where they are at fault with most of what you accuse them. This time.

Next thing you know you will be blaming the city for Golden Triangle Mall being foreclosed on.

[UNTLifer]

Rayzor Ranch is messed up because of the company's bad finances.

The rail is DCTA. Fry Street is, well Fry Street and I don't know why the private company was in such a hurry to knock everything down to leave an empty lot there.

As much as I disagree with the city on many issues I don’t see where they are at fault with most of what you accuse them. This time.

Next thing you know you will be blaming the city for Golden Triangle Mall being foreclosed on.

Sorry, but I have to agree with SUMG. I grew up in Denton, still have family there, still love the town and would move back if the right opportunity existed for me and my family, but SUMG couldn't have stated this any better.

Razor is a mess because of the economy, I will give you that.

The Fry Street project was shut down because the original developers plans were objected to because of a CVS drive through and the traffic congestion this would cause. What a load of B.S. Please show me one, one pharmacy drive through anywhere that causes traffic congestion. BTW, it was knocked down because some moron set fire to The Tomato.

Plano, Frisco, Grapevine, Southlake, etc... would all take care of the infrastructure prior to development as a means to attract developers. Denton is know for taking care of the infrastructure after development is completed and creating havoc for new business. Denton is rightfully portrayed as anti-business because of the difficulty in getting any project off the ground. Denton is reactive instead of proactive which places it behind many cities in the Metroplex area.

[Army of Dad]

Sorry, but I have to agree with SUMG. I grew up in Denton, still have family there, still love the town and would move back if the right opportunity existed for me and my family, but SUMG couldn't have stated this any better.

Razor is a mess because of the economy, I will give you that.

The Fry Street project was shut down because the original developers plans were objected to because of a CVS drive through and the traffic congestion this would cause. What a load of B.S. Please show me one, one pharmacy drive through anywhere that causes traffic congestion. BTW, it was knocked down because some moron set fire to The Tomato.

Plano, Frisco, Grapevine, Southlake, etc... would all take care of the infrastructure prior to development as a means to attract developers. Denton is know for taking care of the infrastructure after development is completed and creating havoc for new business. Denton is rightfully portrayed as anti-business because of the difficulty in getting any project off the ground. Denton is reactive instead of proactive which places it behind many cities in the Metroplex area.

Odd, because we keep reelecting 'pro business' candidates to the city council-even if they bend or break the rules respecting term limits. I have many disagreements with the city government and freely blame them for many ills. I just happen to disagree on these points.

[drex]

Denton is controlled by the anti-business crowd. They have about 3,900 votes in their pocket going into any municipal election. Sadly, there is no cohesive pro business coalition to counter the anti-business crowd. Denton municipal elections usually only have about 5 to 6 thousand people vote, so the anti-business gang always wins. Ironically, a lot of the anti-business votes come from North Texas employees. So, it is North Texas itself that contributes to the anti-business climate in Denton and ultimately the stagnation of any real progress for athletics.

[Travis]

Denton is controlled by the anti-business crowd. They have about 3,900 votes in their pocket going into any municipal election. Sadly, there is no cohesive pro business coalition to counter the anti-business crowd. Denton municipal elections usually only have about 5 to 6 thousand people vote, so the anti-business gang always wins. Ironically, a lot of the anti-business votes come from North Texas employees. So, it is North Texas itself that contributes to the anti-business climate in Denton and ultimately the stagnation of any real progress for athletics.

I remember in the late 90's or early 2000's that they made a pretty good campaign for pro-business and practically the entire board was "pro-business". I don't know if that has changed but I would be surprised if it has.

But, the simple fact is, why does Denton projects consistently fail or stall while other cities progress without problems. I.E. Highland Village, Frisco, Keller, McKinney and Allen.

[SUMG]

Allen builds an arena....gets a minor league hockey team to occupy it.

Frisco is the home of the Frisco Rough Riders and FC Dallas. (two different stadiums).

Think any of those things could have ever happened in Denton?

No way.

Edited July 9, 2010 by SUMG

[Army of Dad]

Allen builds an arena....gets a minor league hockey team to occupy it.

Frisco is the home of the Frisco Rough Riders and FC Dallas. (two different stadiums).

Think any of those things could have ever happened in Denton?

No way.

How much of that is the market? Frisco is larger than Denton and both Allen and Frisco have better tax bases. They also have large cities surrounding them in a fast growing area (it certainly was fast growing when Frisco built those stadiums). Denton has, well Lewisville is on the other side of the lake and then we have what, Sanger? We simply don't have a Plano bordering us. Frisco also has the Stonebriar mall, no chance of a mall like that making a home in Denton because there isn't the same market available here.

I love Denton for the small town feel and we have a lot going for us and we should be better than we are. Simply voting yes to every proposition and reelecting the same fools to the city council every election is certain to change nothing. I work about 40 miles from my house and yet we choose to continue to live in Denton. When I was out of a job I looked very hard for one in Denton, or even in Denton County and found no luck. Denton needs to be more pro-business and pro-development and yet we seem to be unable to build anything more than new housing additions.

Sorry for the longish rant.

[Travis]

How much of that is the market? Frisco is larger than Denton and both Allen and Frisco have better tax bases. They also have large cities surrounding them in a fast growing area (it certainly was fast growing when Frisco built those stadiums). Denton has, well Lewisville is on the other side of the lake and then we have what, Sanger? We simply don't have a Plano bordering us. Frisco also has the Stonebriar mall, no chance of a mall like that making a home in Denton because there isn't the same market available here.

I love Denton for the small town feel and we have a lot going for us and we should be better than we are. Simply voting yes to every proposition and reelecting the same fools to the city council every election is certain to change nothing. I work about 40 miles from my house and yet we choose to continue to live in Denton. When I was out of a job I looked very hard for one in Denton, or even in Denton County and found no luck. Denton needs to be more pro-business and pro-development and yet we seem to be unable to build anything more than new housing additions.

Sorry for the longish rant.

11 years ago Frisco was nothing but fields and farm land. All of that came from nuthin'. After the mall everything popped up around it. I don't attribute that all to being near Plano. Because that doesn't explain why all other wealthier/ highly concentrated cities don't have this stuff coming up. Also, the Frisco boom was before 121 improvement/extension and the Dallas tollway extension. I attribute this to Frisco doing something right more than anything else.

[ColoradoEagle]

Denton has, well Lewisville is on the other side of the lake and then we have what, Sanger? We simply don't have a Plano bordering us. Frisco also has the Stonebriar mall, no chance of a mall like that making a home in Denton because there isn't the same market available here.

That's not completely accurate. Argyle is a growing and affluent area and Highland Village/North Flower Mound is a developing area. Same goes for south and southwest Denton, Lantana, Bartonville, and east of Denton on 380. Corinth is growing to the east of 35. There may not be that one knockout punch of a city like Plano, but the area is growing rapidly. That's part of why the Rayzor Ranch project was started.

I don't know how that will turn out in the end, but the way the project is described, it would be the second largest open air mall in DFW (behind Southlake). If it's completed and spurs as much growth as Stonebriar did in Frisco, Denton might finally get over the hump and realize it's no longer a small college town and definitely will not be in about 10-15 years.

[UNTflyer]

I happen to know that March 14 is the deadline to file for Denton city council election. I hope someone who is pro-UNT and pro-growth runs against Chris Watts.

Watts doesn't even live in Denton any more... he keeps a house and has mail delivered, but he lives in Gainesville.

[NT80]

Denton is much like UNT was, it's own worst enemy when it comes to growth. I grew up in both Denton and Plano since the mid-60's. Denton had plenty of opportunity to become a Frisco but it's leadership decided it wasn't going to happen. Much like the Dallas City Council with Laura Miller (Cowboys Stadium), Denton's mantra is "No, we don't want that here, we're fine as is."

I very much agree with those that say UNT would thrive athletically and every other way if in another city.

[ColoradoEagle]

It's coming. Whether Denton likes it or not, the entire county is growing very quickly, a lot of it spurred by 380 widening, DNT connecting to 380, the Lewisville Lake toll bridge, and 121/190 expansion. It's not a matter of if the Denton mentality changes, it's when. Denton 15-20 years from now is the size of Arlington, for better or worse.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

It's the same thing....time after time...after time around this city.

On one day, the city or a developer will announce plans for a new project.

Within a day or two, the Denton paper will have the headlines: "Concerns Expressed Over New Project."

They just announced plans to spruce up Downtown....that headline (or something similar) is in today's D-RC.

So if it's Rayzor Ranch, new rail, Downtown, Fry Street....widening Bonnie Brae, a new hotel/convention center....this town never gets any projects off the ground (or seldom does)....because there are always people fighting them every step of the way.

If UNT was in a progressive town like Plano or Frisco....we'd probably be in the Big 12 (exaggeration....but maybe you get my point).

.

Darn conservatives hate change... LOL... ( this is a joke..well somewhat...don't pummel me )

[drex]

Believe me, the political bend of the city councils in Denton over the years have been far from conservative. I'll stop at that.

[Censored by Laurie]

Denton had plenty of opportunity to become a Frisco but it's leadership decided it wasn't going to happen.

Thank God.

I very much agree with those that say UNT would thrive athletically and every other way if in another city.

Right, like Dallas and SMU? Or like how it takes ESPN Game Day to sell out Amon Carter?

[UNT90]

How much of that is the market? Frisco is larger than Denton and both Allen and Frisco have better tax bases. They also have large cities surrounding them in a fast growing area (it certainly was fast growing when Frisco built those stadiums). Denton has, well Lewisville is on the other side of the lake and then we have what, Sanger? We simply don't have a Plano bordering us. Frisco also has the Stonebriar mall, no chance of a mall like that making a home in Denton because there isn't the same market available here.

I love Denton for the small town feel and we have a lot going for us and we should be better than we are. Simply voting yes to every proposition and reelecting the same fools to the city council every election is certain to change nothing. I work about 40 miles from my house and yet we choose to continue to live in Denton. When I was out of a job I looked very hard for one in Denton, or even in Denton County and found no luck. Denton needs to be more pro-business and pro-development and yet we seem to be unable to build anything more than new housing additions.

Sorry for the longish rant.

It absolutely depends on how the city government manages the growth as to what you end up with. Just look at south Arlington. 15 years ago it was farmland, minutes from the shiny new Parks Mall. Today it is home of the biggest gang problem in the metroplex (thank you, $90K home developments). Nowhere is more centrally located than Arlington, and they completely screwed the pooch.

Frisco, Allen, Grapevine, Southlake and the like have been smart in their development. Denton? From what I see, not so much.

[NT03]

I happen to know that March 14 is the deadline to file for Denton city council election. I hope someone who is pro-UNT and pro-growth runs against Chris Watts.

Watts doesn't even live in Denton any more... he keeps a house and has mail delivered, but he lives in Gainesville.

I would so vote for that guy whom you are talking about

[UNTLifer]

How much of that is the market? Frisco is larger than Denton and both Allen and Frisco have better tax bases. They also have large cities surrounding them in a fast growing area (it certainly was fast growing when Frisco built those stadiums). Denton has, well Lewisville is on the other side of the lake and then we have what, Sanger? We simply don't have a Plano bordering us. Frisco also has the Stonebriar mall, no chance of a mall like that making a home in Denton because there isn't the same market available here.

I love Denton for the small town feel and we have a lot going for us and we should be better than we are. Simply voting yes to every proposition and reelecting the same fools to the city council every election is certain to change nothing. I work about 40 miles from my house and yet we choose to continue to live in Denton. When I was out of a job I looked very hard for one in Denton, or even in Denton County and found no luck. Denton needs to be more pro-business and pro-development and yet we seem to be unable to build anything more than new housing additions.

Sorry for the longish rant.

Sorry, but in the late 80's/early 90's, Frisco was a small farming community with a 2A High School, nobody knew where Allen was and Plano was about the size of Denton. You mention malls? Denton built the Golden Triangle Mall and Frisco courted Stonebriar. Any guess on who won that battle?

Some other communities to add in to this discussion. Coppell was nothing but farm/ranch land, as was Colleyville, Southlake, Keller and Roanoke. Grapevine was a quaint little town on the northen edge of DFW airport and Flower Mound was beautiful ranchland west of Lewisville.

Face it, everyone of these communities has passed Denton by because Denton is not proactive, not pro-business and has been touting its potential for years. Denton has had every opportunity to grow as the communities listed above, yet they end up with the reputation as being difficult to work with.

[ColoradoEagle]

You mention malls? Denton built the Golden Triangle Mall and Frisco courted Stonebriar. Any guess on who won that battle?

The malls were built 20 years apart, though.

[Green P1]

I like Denton.

[Army of Dad]

The malls were built 20 years apart, though.

Do not bother to let facts cloud your judgment.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Army of Dad

[Censored by Laurie]

I like Denton.

Me too.

[Army of Dad]

Sorry, but in the late 80's/early 90's, Frisco was a small farming community with a 2A High School, nobody knew where Allen was and Plano was about the size of Denton. You mention malls? Denton built the Golden Triangle Mall and Frisco courted Stonebriar. Any guess on who won that battle?

Some other communities to add in to this discussion. Coppell was nothing but farm/ranch land, as was Colleyville, Southlake, Keller and Roanoke. Grapevine was a quaint little town on the northen edge of DFW airport and Flower Mound was beautiful ranchland west of Lewisville.

Face it, everyone of these communities has passed Denton by because Denton is not proactive, not pro-business and has been touting its potential for years. Denton has had every opportunity to grow as the communities listed above, yet they end up with the reputation as being difficult to work with.

All of the cities you mention are closer to major population/job centers than Denton is. Even Allen and Frisco are because of their border with Plano. Plano grew because it was the suburb of Dallas and the large number of corporate headquarters located there. Keller is the northern suburb of Ft. Worth. Roanoke and Southlake benefit from close proximity to DFW airport and the resulting number of major company headquarters located there in addition to the Alliance Airport/Intermodal hub.

Denton was passed by because we are farther out from the urban sprawl (for now) and not much more reason than that. As I have already said the city government is barely competent, (to put it nicely) and bear some responsibility for the conditions we have here now. The city government/city council are not the primary factor in other formerly small towns in the region outpacing us in growth, our location is.

[Army of Dad]

It isn't all bad news for development in Denton.

Diverse Denton