Top Ten Games In Fouts History

Rudy · June 25, 2010

Hey, wait, where is Nevada, Utah St, NMSU, and Idaho on that list? Surely those teams MUST draw better. Right?

KRAM1 · June 25, 2010

I doubt UT or A&M have manitory student athletic fees. At $10 an hour and that can go up to $20, NT students will be paying more than you are suggesting. UT and A&M are programs that want to actually limit student attendance were they can sell more expensive tickets to non-students.

OSU does and the students then have to buy tickets. UT and A&M both have athletic fees tacked on to students bills...at least that's what i am told by parents who have kids at both schools. Schools call these things a variety of different names, but they all seem to find a way to tack it on somewhere and somehow.

I would like to see the numbers at UNT and at several other schools on how many students...undergrad...are actually paying the full freight for their education on their own with no $$$$ help from family or scholarships. Probably no way to get this info, but seems it would vary by school a great deal. The student "pay" percent at UNT may be higher than others, but I suspect it is probably pretty much in line with most other state schools in Texas. I am not talking about a kid who works part-time for spending money, I'm talking about kids who are having to actually pay their own way...the vast majority of the cost...on their own...no family or friend help and no scholarship money.

Would be an interesting study I believe to look at this rate and how it compares to other Texas state universities and then expanded to other surrounding states such as Ark., Okla, N. Mex and La.

Quoner · June 25, 2010

OSU does and the students then have to buy tickets. UT and A&M both have athletic fees tacked on to students bills...at least that's what i am told by parents who have kids at both schools. Schools call these things a variety of different names, but they all seem to find a way to tack it on somewhere and somehow.

I would like to see the numbers at UNT and at several other schools on how many students...undergrad...are actually paying the full freight for their education on their own with no $$$$ help from family or scholarships. Probably no way to get this info, but seems it would vary by school a great deal. The student "pay" percent at UNT may be higher than others, but I suspect it is probably pretty much in line with most other state schools in Texas. I am not talking about a kid who works part-time for spending money, I'm talking about kids who are having to actually pay their own way...the vast majority of the cost...on their own...no family or friend help and no scholarship money.

Would be an interesting study I believe to look at this rate and how it compares to other Texas state universities and then expanded to other surrounding states such as Ark., Okla, N. Mex and La.

A&M has a student sports pass that has variable pricing -- about $300 just for football, $350 or so for football and basketball and a little bit more for all sports. Students then not only camp out to pull their tickets, but have to find another student's pass and pay a non-student fee to get a special sticker if they want to bring a friend. We have it good here.

I don't have numbers on students, but most of the COBA professors I worked with while on campus believed that (1) we had more students working full-time and taking class than any other major school and (2) the students lucky enough to not have to pay had no excuse not to have at least a 3.5 because this was their job.

Eagle1855 · June 25, 2010

So much for that "big time" rivalry with MTSU that our fans "just can't get enough of"

GrandGreen · June 25, 2010

OSU does and the students then have to buy tickets. UT and A&M both have athletic fees tacked on to students bills...at least that's what i am told by parents who have kids at both schools. Schools call these things a variety of different names, but they all seem to find a way to tack it on somewhere and somehow.

I would like to see the numbers at UNT and at several other schools on how many students...undergrad...are actually paying the full freight for their education on their own with no $$$$ help from family or scholarships. Probably no way to get this info, but seems it would vary by school a great deal. The student "pay" percent at UNT may be higher than others, but I suspect it is probably pretty much in line with most other state schools in Texas. I am not talking about a kid who works part-time for spending money, I'm talking about kids who are having to actually pay their own way...the vast majority of the cost...on their own...no family or friend help and no scholarship money.

Would be an interesting study I believe to look at this rate and how it compares to other Texas state universities and then expanded to other surrounding states such as Ark., Okla, N. Mex and La.

Per the NCAA reported revenue and expenses, neither A&M and UT charge students athletic fees. Giving student special ticket prices has nothing to do with mandated athletic fees.

The majority of students at NT receive some type of financial aid which is true at most universites. IF you count student loans as a type of financial aid then that number would be very high.

DallasGreen · June 25, 2010

Per the NCAA reported revenue and expenses, neither A&M and UT charge students athletic fees. Giving student special ticket prices has nothing to do with mandated athletic fees.

The majority of students at NT receive some type of financial aid which is true at most universites. IF you count student loans as a type of financial aid then that number would be very high.

As a UT parent for ten years I can definitely tell you there is a sports fee. It's just hidden with the other tons of fees that sometimes are nearly as much as tuition. Since about 2002 there are no breakdowns of fees on the bills. Attitude is that if you don't agree with paying the fees don't let the door hit you. The lines, bracelets needed to keep spots, charges at full price for visitors, and student charges for tickets are a way of life at UT and all BCS schools. Our students pay half the athletic fee of UTSA, TSSM, Lamar and others that are FCS not even D-1. I think you have to count grants and financial aid as support. Both are more available now than at any time in history. Our students have been spoiled and seen as the "poor working commuters" too long.They have been given tickets since sports began @ NT and never appreciated it. No, we don't have a UT or A$M program but when we are even below some TX FCS schools, it's time to quit playing "the poor downtroden card" for students. Something that costs nothing is perceived as worth nothing.

Pertaining to the original intent of this thread, I feel that the Homecoming game in 1967 which matched Steve Ramsey of NT against Greg Cook of Cincinnati may have been the most exciting and unusual game played in Fouts. NT had a very good H/C crowd @ K/O but threats of storms and tornadoes sent most scurrying for cover near half time. The last half was played in a driving rainstorm but both QBs threw like it was a dry day. The score was something like 55-30--- NT won. Both QBs went on to decent NFL careers. It still amazes me how far we have fallen from a competitive stand point to what we had in the late 60s and most of the 70s. As a retired coach once told me Fry & Blakeley were actually bad for future coaches because they won and recruited with minimal school and alumni $$$ and no athletic fee. The eggheads at the top for more than two decades thought that because Fry & Blakeley could win and compete with next to nothing that their successors could do it as well.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · June 25, 2010

Hmmm. Seven of the 10 are against regional opponents. I wonder what that says about scheduling regional opponents. Does it say anything? Or, does it say nothing at all? And, if it says something, what exactly does it say? And, if it says nothing, what further information is needed to draw a conclusion?

I like a scheduled game against Oklahoma State. I also like a scheduled game against Texas State. I also like a scheduled game against SMU. I also like a scheduled game against Tulsa. I also like a scheduled game against TCU. I also like a scheduled game against Louisiana Tech. I also like a scheduled game against UTEP. I also like a scheduled game against Rice. I also like a scheduled game against Houston. I also like a schedule game against Kansas State. I also like a scheduled game against Kansas. I also like a scheduled game against Sam Houston State. I also like a scheduled game against Stephen F. Austin even though he's dead. I also like a scheduled game against Southern Mississippi. I also like a scheduled game against Missouri State.

I like all of those schedule games if they are scheduled to be played at our home field to give us a home field advantage in attendance and crowd noise favor.

Quoner · June 25, 2010

Hmmm. Seven of the 10 are against regional opponents. I wonder what that says about scheduling regional opponents. Does it say anything? Or, does it say nothing at all? And, if it says something, what exactly does it say? And, if it says nothing, what further information is needed to draw a conclusion?

I like a scheduled game against Oklahoma State. I also like a scheduled game against Texas State. I also like a scheduled game against SMU. I also like a scheduled game against Tulsa. I also like a scheduled game against TCU. I also like a scheduled game against Louisiana Tech. I also like a scheduled game against UTEP. I also like a scheduled game against Rice. I also like a scheduled game against Houston. I also like a schedule game against Kansas State. I also like a scheduled game against Kansas. I also like a scheduled game against Sam Houston State. I also like a scheduled game against Stephen F. Austin even though he's dead. I also like a scheduled game against Southern Mississippi. I also like a scheduled game against Missouri State.

I like all of those schedule games if they are scheduled to be played at our home field to give us a home field advantage in attendance and crowd noise favor.

I'm with you on everything but Missouri State and Texas State.

SMU opened the June Jones era with Texas State and drew a little over 22k. Then, they showed improvement and drew 34k for SFA a year later. Is SFA just that big a draw relative to the Bobcats?

I think people will come for the other games you mentioned, but those smaller teams, no matter how much they pass us by in hypothetical WAC conference scenarios, are not a draw by themselves unless people think the home team is going to win and win big.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · June 25, 2010

Is SFA just that big a draw relative to the Bobcats?

Many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, some, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, people form the DFW metroplex area attend Stephen F. Austin for college, including many girls I knew from high school and church who had really good, solid, shapely legs and drank beer and all that combination entails in a late night encounter at Taco Bell.

gangrene · June 25, 2010

I think the "home" games at Texas Stadium should also be mentioned within this thread because it shows our potential to draw larger crowds when/if a big-name opponent agrees to visit us.

The undefeated Aggies traveled to Texas Stadium looking for a challenge after blowout victories over Sam Houston and Southwestern Louisiana, and that's exactly what the Aggies got from the North Texas Mean Green before pulling away for a 36-10 victory before a UNT record crowd of 42,224 fans.

North Texas also played Texas Tech at Texas Stadium in 1998 and 2001, but the attendance was only in the low 20K range. I am pretty certain the attendance for a Tech visit would be higher today.

I looked for, but was unable to find, our attendance figures for the '74, '76 and '77 games against SMU at Texas Stadium.

LoveMG · June 25, 2010

I'm with you on everything but Missouri State and Texas State.

SMU opened the June Jones era with Texas State and drew a little over 22k. Then, they showed improvement and drew 34k for SFA a year later. Is SFA just that big a draw relative to the Bobcats?

I think people will come for the other games you mentioned, but those smaller teams, no matter how much they pass us by in hypothetical WAC conference scenarios, are not a draw by themselves unless people think the home team is going to win and win big.

see, you can do it. good job/.

Edited June 25, 2010 by LoveMG

gangrene · June 25, 2010

SMU opened the June Jones era with Texas State and drew a little over 22k. Then, they showed improvement and drew 34k for SFA a year later. Is SFA just that big a draw relative to the Bobcats?

I'd say that 34K was artificially inflated (like most SMU attendance figures) because of SMU's Sellout Campaign 2009.

In an effort to surpass the stadium record of 34,689, SMU's Sellout 2009 campaign is the brainchild of Kevin Kaplan, who has staged similar efforts with schools such as Tulane, UNLV and New Mexico. (Kaplan also helps run the June Jones Foundation.)

Eighteen committee members, including Cowboys great Roger Staubach and SMU trustees Paul Loyd and Carl Sewell, have committed to selling 1,000 tickets apiece (at $10 a pop, that's a $10,000 commitment). The tickets that they don't sell will be distributed to non-profits and the like. None of the tickets are free, if that's what you're wondering.

So, as you can see, 18,000 of those tickets were sold to only 18 people. I have no idea how many of those were given away, but I have to suspect most of them were. If that was indeed the case, I'd estimate their attendance was closer to 16,000 people who actually paid for and used their own tickets.

Quoner · June 25, 2010

I'd say that 34K was artificially inflated (like most SMU attendance figures) because of SMU's Sellout Campaign 2009.

So, as you can see, 18,000 of those tickets were sold to only 18 people. I have no idea how many of those were given away, but I have to suspect most of them were. If that was indeed the case, I'd estimate their attendance was closer to 16,000 people who actually paid for and used their own tickets.

Ah, yes, the joy of covering the aggressive marketing campaigns ROI. I think it would have been better than 16K, but the point that we are both somewhat agreeing is that FBS schools on their own wouldn't necessarily drive attendance.

foutsrouts · June 25, 2010

I'd say that 34K was artificially inflated (like most SMU attendance figures) because of SMU's Sellout Campaign 2009.

So, as you can see, 18,000 of those tickets were sold to only 18 people. I have no idea how many of those were given away, but I have to suspect most of them were. If that was indeed the case, I'd estimate their attendance was closer to 16,000 people who actually paid for and used their own tickets.

Yes, I was a recipient of a pair of those complimentary tickets. Even with all of the giveaways, no way were there actually 34K in that stadium. Of course I wasn't interested enough to show up until the third quarter. smu was outplayed and were lucky to win.

NT80 · June 25, 2010

I'd say that 34K was artificially inflated (like most SMU attendance figures) because of SMU's Sellout Campaign 2009.

So, as you can see, 18,000 of those tickets were sold to only 18 people. I have no idea how many of those were given away, but I have to suspect most of them were. If that was indeed the case, I'd estimate their attendance was closer to 16,000 people who actually paid for and used their own tickets.

As you can see from the halftime photo the sideline seats were not sold out and the endzone had even fewer fans in it...

http://photos.smu.edu/image/4279723

Edited June 25, 2010 by NT80

SilverEagle · June 25, 2010

As a UT parent for ten years I can definitely tell you there is a sports fee. It's just hidden with the other tons of fees that sometimes are nearly as much as tuition. Since about 2002 there are no breakdowns of fees on the bills. Attitude is that if you don't agree with paying the fees don't let the door hit you. The lines, bracelets needed to keep spots, charges at full price for visitors, and student charges for tickets are a way of life at UT and all BCS schools. Our students pay half the athletic fee of UTSA, TSSM, Lamar and others that are FCS not even D-1. I think you have to count grants and financial aid as support. Both are more available now than at any time in history. Our students have been spoiled and seen as the "poor working commuters" too long.They have been given tickets since sports began @ NT and never appreciated it. No, we don't have a UT or A$M program but when we are even below some TX FCS schools, it's time to quit playing "the poor downtroden card" for students. Something that costs nothing is perceived as worth nothing.

Pertaining to the original intent of this thread, I feel that the Homecoming game in 1967 which matched Steve Ramsey of NT against Greg Cook of Cincinnati may have been the most exciting and unusual game played in Fouts. NT had a very good H/C crowd @ K/O but threats of storms and tornadoes sent most scurrying for cover near half time. The last half was played in a driving rainstorm but both QBs threw like it was a dry day. The score was something like 55-30--- NT won. Both QBs went on to decent NFL careers. It still amazes me how far we have fallen from a competitive stand point to what we had in the late 60s and most of the 70s. As a retired coach once told me Fry & Blakeley were actually bad for future coaches because they won and recruited with minimal school and alumni $$$ and no athletic fee. The eggheads at the top for more than two decades thought that because Fry & Blakeley could win and compete with next to nothing that their successors could do it as well.

I think that Odus Mitchell was the one who originally "spoiled" the eggheads. He had a very good record over his tenure as the HC, and he did it "within budget". I'm told that he liked the arrangement as much as the administration because he didn't want alumni telling him how to run his program.

Hayden and Blackley didn't spoil them as much as Corkey Nelson did. He beat a lot of D-1 schools with a 1-AA budget.

Edited June 26, 2010 by SilverEagle

meanrob · June 25, 2010

7 of those 10 games are against regional opponents.

8 of 10 are after RV brought tailgating to NT, so that says a lot about what that has done about the total gameday experience fans get.

um...er...RV really didn't bring...oh nevermind.

DallasGreen · June 27, 2010

I think that Odus Mitchell was the one who originally "spoiled" the eggheads. He had a very good record over his tenure as the HC, and he did it "within budget". I'm told that he liked the arrangement as much as the administration because he didn't want alumni telling him how to run his program.

Hayden and Blackley didn't spoil them as much as Corkey Nelson did. He beat a lot of D-1 schools with a 1-AA budget.

Really can't argue your point. As the years roll by I am even more amazed with what Corkey accomplished with so little. I never felt we were in a "body bag" game in those years as we stood up well to TT, Rice, UT, and OSU--teams that now we can't even hope to stay with on the field 'till halftime.

SilverEagle · June 27, 2010

Really can't argue your point. As the years roll by I am even more amazed with what Corkey accomplished with so little. I never felt we were in a "body bag" game in those years as we stood up well to TT, Rice, UT, and OSU--teams that now we can't even hope to stay with on the field 'till halftime.

Both Hayden Fry and Corkey are the inspiration for one of my signature lines...."I DIDN'T COME HERE TO LOSE".

It all starts with ATTITUDE.....

Edited June 27, 2010 by SilverEagle

emmitt01 · June 27, 2010

I'm with you on everything but Missouri State and Texas State.

SMU opened the June Jones era with Texas State and drew a little over 22k. Then, they showed improvement and drew 34k for SFA a year later. Is SFA just that big a draw relative to the Bobcats?

34k At THE SFA GAME????? Hahahahaha...no, really, hahahahaha. I was at that game and sat...well, anywhere I wanted. Why don't we just count attendance like they do...CUSA would be knocking down our door with our 40,000 a game average.

I think people will come for the other games you mentioned, but those smaller teams, no matter how much they pass us by in hypothetical WAC conference scenarios, are not a draw by themselves unless people think the home team is going to win and win big.