Unt To The Wac Would Be An Upgrade...

UNTFan23 · June 23, 2010

I think it is time to go to the WAC. Those arguing that North Texas should stay in the Belt and work to improve it, are missing one very important point. One school can't improve the Sun Belt. It will take alot of hard work from all the universities to build the Belt, and that's not going to happen. The idea of building the Belt is more then just working hard to improve, its about working harder then other conferences to move ahead of them, and we just are not going to see that kind of commitment from top to bottom in the Sun Belt.

It's going to take a lot of work to rebuild the WAC. Hawaii is currently down. Fresno is the only consistently good FB program in the WAC. I think Nevada has been a bowl or two in the last 5 years and I think they are in the upper range in terms of football. I couldn't tell you ANYTHING more about any of the teams as I really could care less about them. Even if we joined the WAC, it still wouldn't make me give a damn about them. All I'd care about is getting North Texas out of the WAC and into a better conference, even if it is detrimental to our "conference mates."

babigos · June 23, 2010

Legend500, I hope you were kidding. Do you honestly believe that the SBC would ever be able to poach NMSU and others from the WAC? The WAC, even without Boise State, has programs that are more nationally known than any SBC team.

And if you think the other teams in the WAC were only recognized because of Boise State's success, well then you haven't been a football fan very long.

VideoEagle · June 23, 2010

Hell the New Orleans Bowl is so much closer! Who cares that it's the next to lowest rated bowl game of the season, what matters is getting our fans to the game!

OK, it does matter but right now we also need marketing opportunities that come with better bowls. I'd love to play in the Poinsettia Bowl or the New Mexico Bowl. Hawaii bowl, yeah maybe... Christmas in Hawaii might not be bad.

Have you had your coffee yet today? First, are you really suggesting bowls don't care about attendance? Turnout by the fans of a school makes a huge difference in deciding which of two teams a bowl is going to choose. And I know you can't be suggesting Albuquerque is more marketable than Mobile or New Orleans. If so, you can't have been to either one in the last decade!

Without Boise, the Honolulu paper and other newspapers are suggesting the Wacy TV deal will drop by about half to around $2 million. Of that, about $1 million is rights to broadcast the teams in the Wac and an additional $1 million is for those Wacy teams being willing to have games that start on Friday and other days at 8pm Pacific time. That's 11 Eastern/10 Central. ESPN needs games to fill that time slot to maintain serve their West Coast viewers. The Pac 10 isn't going to play that kind of schedule. The Mountain West isn't with ESPN. The rest of the conferences can't supply those games. So, the Wac wisely gets a nice, well deserved bonus for late games from ESPN which is what makes their contract better than the SBC.

The obvious drawback is NO ONE IN THE CENTRAL OR EASTERN TIME ZONES WATCHES THOSE GAMES. You can't get publicity for games no one sees because they start at 10pm and end after midnight! We've already been over and over the fact local and regional media will not cover late college games.

Even those NT fans that want to go to the WAC only want to do so UNTIL there is a CUSA opening. As soon as possible, we want to be there. One of the goals stated by that Wacy Mr Benson for expansion was conference stability. They might be Wacy, but they are getting tired of having to go get new members every few years. We don't fit.

As for BSC money, without Boise, the Sun Belt and the Wac are almost exactly equal. Actually, with NT's terrible football record of late if we moved to the Wac the SBC would clearly LEAD the Wac in BSC money without Boise.

MDH · June 23, 2010

I think one of the biggest concerns for the WAC right now is probably a Sun Belt poach. If we can eject ULM (I know! betrayal! in college football!) and add LATech and NMSU, that murders their conference. The WAC without Boise is nothing - the only reason Hawaii, Fresno and Nevada got any attention was because Boise was getting it, too. Without Boise, the WAC is name-only, and the difference between WAC, SBC and MAC is trivial.

The CUSA invite will happen. If not, we should improve the house we're in. As for the WAC - too bad.

Hardly.

Look at the fan base for WAC schools compared to the Belt. Fresno is crazy about the team and averages over 30k in a down season for attendance...more than any Belt stadium can even hold at capacity (quick guess w/out looking up stadium capacities). Fresno basketball averages over 6k attendance and are god awful.

glick1980 · June 23, 2010

Hardly.

Look at the fan base for WAC schools compared to the Belt. Fresno is crazy about the team and averages over 30k in a down season for attendance...more than any Belt stadium can even hold at capacity (quick guess w/out looking up stadium capacities). Fresno basketball averages over 6k attendance and are god awful.

Didn't ULL have 41k for the K-State game last year?

UNT Mean Green · June 23, 2010

Don't mistake the Big West for the WAC. Completely different conferences. That's like comparing the Sun Belt to the SEC. One could see that's there's an obvious difference and be more excited about the latter.

Did you just make an inference that compared the WAC to the SEC? Please tell me no.

GrayEagle · June 23, 2010

Didn't ULL have 41k for the K-State game last year?

Not for K-State. That was for Southern, located in Baton Rouge, which is less than a hundred miles away. For their home game against Kansas State they had a whopping 16,431.

MeanGreen61 · June 23, 2010

North Texas & WAC news is like the Energizer battery; it just keeps going and going and going.

Regardless of how you feel about UNT & the WAC, the Mean Green are getting a lot comments around the WAC and most are positive.

Two new threads:

Hawaii board - North Texas

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=219&f=1136&t=6065959

WAC board - WAC to add North Texas ?

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=451&f=2368&t=6065595

Shof · June 23, 2010

Not for K-State. That was for Southern, located in Baton Rouge, which is less than a hundred miles away. For their home game against Kansas State they had a whopping 16,431.

Very disappointing attendance! Good momentum coming off the Southern game (with GREAT atmosphere), a Big-12 team coming to town that wasn't a prohibitive favorite, and our fanbase doesn't respond! Hope we don't do that again this year when Ok State comes to Lafayette.

UNTLifer · June 23, 2010

Let's face it. We lost Boise State, which is a pretty big deal, but we have other teams that will fill those shoes nicely. I think adding UNT (if they continue to improve) would be a good fit.

Fresno State, despite what some of their fans may think, is not going anywhere. The MWC does not want them and they're strapped for cash. Plus, they can be the team that's the next BCS buster. How many BCS busters in the Sun Belt and CUSA?

Hawaii has been a BCS buster, plus is a hell of a nice road trip. Great school with a great baseball tradition as well.

LA Tech is another up and coming program that will do whatever they can to stay in the WAC and out of CUSA. Not sure they would even go, if invited. Most fans don't seem to be interested.

Nevada seems to be the next team poised to bust the BCS. They have a great program there rising up and have broken into the top 25 a few times the past couple of years.

Also, we have some pretty good basketball schools in Utah State, New Mexico State, and Nevada.

The WAC also has 4 guaranteed bowl spots per year, matched up against the Pac 10 and MWC in some pretty awesome cities ti visit. Not sure the Sun Belt (or CUSA) offers this for you guys.

Plus, let's not forget the caveat to this whole thing. We HAVE an ESPN contract for another 9 years which garauntees every WAC football and basketball teams gets at least 1 nationally televised game a year..

Nice sales job Mr. Benson. Let's look a little closer at this post.

Fresno State: You state they are "cash strapped." Just what I want to be associated with, plus their academics are suspect which makes them not attractive to the PAC-10 and MWC. Just don't see them being the next BCS buster, and again, being "cash strapped" is a negative to me.

Hawaii: great road trip; too bad it costs an arm and a leg to get there. Has been a BCS buster, but they have terrible facilities and are on a downward slide since Jones left.

La. Tech: "An up and coming program" really? Talk about cash strapped. Their facilities are horrendous and they've mortgaged everything to be in the WAC. The would jump all over a CUSA invite if one came.

Nevada: Good program and a perfect fit for the WAC.

Basketball schools: We've shared a conference with USU and NMSU and they did nothing for our attendance. Well, NMSU did but USU does nothing for me.

The thing that scares me about the WAC is its instability. You've stated that Fresno St. is "cash strapped" and so is La Tech and Hawaii.

Bowl Games:

The Humanitarian Bowl is gone, the Hawaii Bowl isn't financially viable if Hawaii isn't playing there and who watches the Poinsetta or New Mexico Bowl? I'd much rather go to New Orleans or Mobile than to any of the bowls you've listed.

The WAC is in survival mode which is something I don't want to be associated with. The ESPN contract will be drastically changed, and not for the better, with the departure of Boise State.

PlummMeanGreen · June 23, 2010

Welcome to the board babigos, not everyone on here is Anti-WAC, it is about 65/35 according to our poll against the WAC. I think that would drastically swing to the 65/35 in FAVOR if NT was invited along with UL and ASU. That would give us a nice Eastern Division and some security. CUSA could still get raided and La Tech (or NT) could get poached as a replacement. We would feel pretty stupid to leave our stable conference to save the WAC only to have our only other Central Time Zone team leave us as the new red headed step child of the WAC. Here is what I posted in another thread about comparing the WAC to the Big West - in my opinion, there is no comparison... and people forget, those Big West football teams were pretty salty. We NEVER lost our bowl games to the MAC back then, it was just a given that the BW rep would destroy the MAC rep (which was their champ) every year in Vegas. Here is my post:

Man, you guys get mean with each other. The Big West was a mish mosh conference but there was some damn good football played in it. North Texas was underfunded back then, we were barely surviving on a $6.7 million dollar athletic budget. The BIGGEST drain were the non-revenue sports of which the Big West had a ton of non-football playing California schools to deal with (UCSB, Pacific, UC-Irvine, Cal Poly, etc..). Our program was in its infancy and had not built a fan base. We did not have tailgating - it was illegal on campus... so to compare the two attendance averages is jut not fair. We didn't even have an active fan message board.

All that being said, I would want to go with Arkie State and UL. Take those two schools, add La Tech, North Texas, and NMSU and you have a solid division for the Eastern WAC. The bowl in New Mexico is suitable for us but a better bowl would need to be worked out. The Belt could continue to work on the Sun Belt footprint of the Southeast and possibly add schools like UTSA, Texas State, and Appy State to replace outgoing members.

The main reason why I said yes- it is called playing defense. Texas State is ready to take advantage of this environment, so is UTSA. If we say no - they will likely get an invite and that would hurt us in my opinion. Think about how you will feel, really - if you watch Texas State go into the WAC and we stay in the Belt. There is a pecking order in college football and unfortunately, the Belt is at the bottom. I think that we could move up that ladder with the WAC. One thing that would need to be put in place - a legal commitment from all schools that they will stay in the conference for at least 5 years. It would completely suck if we were to move to the WAC with UL and ASU and watch La Tech move off to CUSA. We would essentially be saving the WAC and in exchange, they would need to guarantee our security. Just my opinion, nothing else. Please don't scream at me or tell me that I am stupid. Its not neccesary, ok?

Amen, amen & amen, stebo!

To borrow part of a phrase from the first President Bush, It's not a kinder and gentler world we live in in today's NCAA as far a major college football is concerned. Look how close Texas A&M came so very close to saying adios to UT-Austin to head to the SEC. TAMU regent Gene Stallings wanted that to happen and others on that board did to and I think still might (secretly) want to leave the shadows of UT-Austin. Don't rule that out for the future because things just don't stay the same in the NCAA of this millineum.

A WAC as Steve has stated above would be an upgrade in my humble opinion. They do have BCS "busters" in their league and the SBC is decades from having such bragging rights now aren't we?

FACT: UNT being a Texas-based school will never have a CUSA consideration because too many in that league will continue to grumble: "We don't want yet another Texas school a la the old Southwest Conference which made Frank Broyle's and Arkansas vault for the SEC (among other reasons he made for leaving a too heavy Texas schools based conference). Yes, CUSA is all our first choice, but lets not forget the politics that will continue to leave us on the outside looking in. (Hey Jack! I didn't even mention SMU in any of this--you proud of me)? LOL!

IMHO, the WAC definitely needs more study & consideration; that is, if they are even considering UNT. Trust me, we bring much to their table that they would dearly love to have.

ADDENDUM: And what if North Texas became the WAC's new Boise State, its newest Top 25 annual fixture and in general, its new flag bearer? Why not? Would that make the WAC a better league and make all league members ask: "Who is Boise State?" lol!

At some point, we of UNT need to quit kicking dead horses but rather hop onto one that can take us to much greener pastures; that is, such pastures that would give us more realistic chances to be in a BCS bowl like other WAC schools have been doing of late.

GMG!

Visit my website at: www.soundworksdeejay.com (Take your motion sickness pills first, though). }:>)

Edited June 23, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

MDH · June 23, 2010

You can't use attendance as a reason against WAC inclusion because hardly any Belt schools travel to Denton for any games. If anything, NMSU and La Tech would travel much better than any other Belt school so our attendance would be better, not to mention more recognizable names and a new conference would draw a few more to attend on our side.

dchi72 · June 28, 2010

We'll see how much longer LA Tech can stay in the WAC once all the BCS Bowl money dries up. They're also about to be hit hard by the state of Louisiana's budget crisis. Things will be tough for them very soon. They will do all they can to stay in the WAC, and it'll probably have an extremely detrimental impact on their competitiveness in all sports as their budget is sucked up by all that travel. I suspect they'll stay in the WAC for the forseeable future, but all their programs will regress.

How many years have we heard: "Just wait until (insert TV/BCS/BBall/Davison) money dries up." Ya'll have been waiting for the money to dry up for 6 years?

Cr1028 · June 28, 2010

I think it is time to go to the WAC. Those arguing that North Texas should stay in the Belt and work to improve it, are missing one very important point. One school can't improve the Sun Belt. It will take alot of hard work from all the universities to build the Belt, and that's not going to happen. The idea of building the Belt is more then just working hard to improve, its about working harder then other conferences to move ahead of them, and we just are not going to see that kind of commitment from top to bottom in the Sun Belt.

I truly believe the Belt is stronger than the Boiseless WAC. I'd take the MUTS or TROY to dominate anyone in the newly weaker WAC. I don't know if any of you have watched any football in the last few years but believe Boise went undefeated in '08 but did not get into the BCS and Utah did. The reason? The perception that Boise walked through a WEAK conference. Why the hell would we want to leave a weak cocnference for an equally or even weaker conference that involves about twice the travel? The WAC proponents on here are promoting change just for the sake of change. Thanks Obama. Ughh :rolleyes: .

gangrene · June 28, 2010

Honestly, I still haven't seen a compelling argument for staying in the SBC or joining the WAC. Each option seems to have greater risk than reward to me. The WAC just lost it's figure head and the SBC has never really had one. The SBC is widely accepted to be the worst football conference in the FBS. I think that is due in part to a poor record against other conferences but also because of the large number of former FCS teams in the SBC. The WAC is strongly considering adding FCS teams and their success against other conferences will most certainly be reduced with the loss of Boise State. So, the choice is bad or worse - only we can't scientifically deduce which one is bad and which one is worse at this point in time.

Since football is the driving force behind any conference affiliation decision, I don't really care about travel costs for the other sports. A good portion of those costs will, obviously, have to be offset by additional revenue generated from the new conference affiliation, but could also potentially be funded by the increased athletic budget realized from the student athletic fee. I didn't travel to any of the Big West games against teams currently in the WAC, mainly because I didn't have the means to do so back then. A lot has changed. While I am only able to make it to a couple of OOC games each year now, I no longer have many of the obstacles that prevented me from attending Big West opponents. Several of the WAC markets are appealing to me because I love to ski and just like cold weather, in general. Hawai'i also doesn't sound bad and it'd be easy to talk my wife into visiting. Still, the weekend road trip is a nice option. I'm also not buying into the media coverage issues of playing in the Pacific or Mountain time zones. I loved it when they used to show the Hawai'i games live (with a 9 or 10 PM Central k/o time) and I watched quite a few of them because it was the last live game of the day. Besides, how much local media coverage do we really get now? Does anyone think Vito will stop blogging about UNT if we join the WAC?

I guess my point is that I really don't care which conference we're affiliated with because it doesn't really matter unless we're winning (not unless we're Baylor or Vanderbilt - losing record every year but still raking in millions from the league payout). If we were still dominating the SBC, I think the decision would be tougher because we'd be the top dog in our conference eight years straight. We'd have built a foundation of success that should get us noticed by the conferences for which we aspire to belong. If, at that point, that recognition we desire still hadn't come, it would make more sense to look elsewhere to prove that we could dominate outside of the SBC.

Sorry folks but the bottom line is that is all comes down to winning in today's college football world. We have to win both conference and non-conference games. If we consistently win, we will get more media coverage, higher attendance, better traveling fans, more donations, more apparel sales, more respect for North Texas and more respect for whichever conference we choose to align. Then, and only then, will the "sleeping giant" we claim to be awake from the slumber.

Arkstfan · June 28, 2010

When every member except Hawaii is a former Big West football member how do you not compare it to the Big West?

Tech jury is out with the new coach but they have not been closer than 3 games back in the conference race since 2005.

The three Belt schools that moved to the WAC have never finished closer than 4 games back despite two of them gaining regional opponents.

UNTLifer · June 28, 2010

Tech jury is out with the new coach but they have not been closer than 3 games back in the conference race since 2005.

But joining the WAC has moved La Tech up in the opinion's of the unwashed masses. Doesn't matter that it has been a financial disaster, just look at the prestige they garner from the national media!

cdizzle86 · June 28, 2010

But joining the WAC has moved La Tech up in the opinion's of the unwashed masses. Doesn't matter that it has been a financial disaster, just look at the prestige they garner from the national media!

You're right. Let's just be complacent and stay in the Sun Belt. Good idea. Disaster averted.

I can't even believe we're contemplating leaving the Sun Belt. I mean we have come so far in the last nine years as a conference. We use to be the least respected conference in the FBS, and now we're.....

Edited June 28, 2010 by cdizzle86

Daddy Dumpsalot · June 28, 2010

So, what is the Sun Belt offering UNT? Any BCS busters, etc? How's the current bowl structure.? What about how the conference is perceived? The money just isn't there and you guys are supposedly in the Sun Belt's footprint. The WAC is a huge upgrade compared to the SBC.

Also, don't hold your breath for CUSA to send an invite. There would need to be a mass exodus of members there for UNT to even get considered. This may your best shot in upgrading the program for awhile.

If UNT is truly committed to their fans and improving, joining the WAC would be a big step in the right direction. Staying in the SBC and praying for a CUSA invite would cost the school millions in lost revenue.

Babigos...don't bring your sound-proof logic and perfect sense to this board. Here, we only operate on speculation and blind hope. We are die-hard Sunbelt fans here who relish in the fact that we don't have to drive too far to play our nationally recognized opponents, we have small budgets because we have small expenses, and low fan attendance so that those who come can have their choice of great seats at the games. And furthermore, we don't need televised games because then we would have to dress up.

You should be ashamed...we should be asking you guys to join the Sunbelt.

jdennis82 · June 28, 2010

Here, we only operate on speculation and blind hope.

wouldn't droves of fans coming out in response to WAC membership be speculation and blind hope?

eppy4life · June 28, 2010

And furthermore, we don't need televised games because then we would have to dress up.

I think our fans have proven that nationally televised games don't mean they should represent the university well. I remember seeing one of our band members wearing a huge Obama mask at the NCAA tourney game this year. How embarrassing to watch the other schools look classy and put together and then see our band walk out wearing ugly green wigs and Obama masks like it was a halloween contest.

jdennis82 · June 28, 2010

I think our fans have proven that nationally televised games don't mean they should represent the university well. I remember seeing one of our band members wearing a huge Obama mask at the NCAA tourney game this year. How embarrassing to watch the other schools look classy and put together and then see our band walk out wearing ugly green wigs and Obama masks like it was a halloween contest.

i hope you're ready for 15 PMs from people telling you how superior they were musically.

gangrene · June 28, 2010

We are die-hard Sunbelt fans here who relish in the fact that we don't have to drive too far to play our nationally recognized opponents

What more can you expect from a commuter school!!!???

UNTLifer · June 28, 2010

You're right. Let's just be complacent and stay in the Sun Belt. Good idea. Disaster averted.

I can't even believe we're contemplating leaving the Sun Belt. I mean we have come so far in the last nine years as a conference. We use to be the least respected conference in the FBS, and now we're.....

So are you championing change for the sake of change? I'm not against change if it is a move upwards, but it appears more and more that the WAC is a lateral move at best with higher costs associated with membership. I'm just trying to understand the benefit of moving.

I would argue, based upon the current conference status, that the Sun Belt is rated higher overall with MTSU and Troy being ranked relatively high at this point. Regardless of that, I would also argue that the WAC is now much weaker minus BSU and with Hawaii and FSU suffering from financial issues while the SBC is as strong or stronger that it has been in the past.

Again, why jump to a conference that has higher operating costs associated with it that appears to be in disarray and survival mode even though it has historical name recognition over one that is more regional and more stable? The WAC lost their "BCS buster" in Boise State and the dollars their appearance in a BCS bowl generated, ESPN and Benson have already stated that the WAC's television contract will be altered due to the absence of Boise State and half of the WAC's bowl games are in a financial mess.

As I mentioned in another thread, do you attribute Boise State's success to being a member of the WAC or to having an administration focused on having a great program with a community that support its every move?

I'm not asking you to agree with me, but at least tell me why, with supportive facts, the WAC is so attractive in its current condition and how this will benefit us?

Edited June 28, 2010 by UNTLifer

foutsrouts · June 28, 2010

I'm with babigos as well. I know we have a stadium to pay for, but the geographical travel costs etc. aren't as big of a concern as they were to me previously. The WAC doesn't necessarily have to be our permanent home, just a temporary home to where we can HOPEFULLY gain some status as a "semi-real" player in the world of college athletics.

Sorry to slight our current conference mates, because they routinely kick our butts now in F-ball, but right now we are in "Jokesville" as far as most in the country are concerned. We need to roll the dice now and step up in any way we can IMO, and the only possibility of that in the near-term appears to be the WAC.

As far as traveling to games is concerned, how many here routinely travel east of Louisiana and Arkansas to see SBC games? I've been to many games in those two states, but I have never gone further east than that. Sure the Miami area can be an enticing destination in November, but how many currently get excited about playing those two schools in anything? Since I love to ski, and I certainly love Hawaii, I personally would be much more likely to head out west in Fall/Winter to WAC venues.

For those of us who remember NT athletics in the seventies (and before), we remember a time when we were athletically only a half notch to a quarter of a notch below the old SWC schools. Now it seems like we are one to two notches below those schools athletically. I think it's time to make the move if they'll take us. We may not get another opportunity to move up the scale for decades. We can always come back if necessary.