Unt To The Wac Would Be An Upgrade...

babigos · June 23, 2010

Let's face it. We lost Boise State, which is a pretty big deal, but we have other teams that will fill those shoes nicely. I think adding UNT (if they continue to improve) would be a good fit.

Fresno State, despite what some of their fans may think, is not going anywhere. The MWC does not want them and they're strapped for cash. Plus, they can be the team that's the next BCS buster. How many BCS busters in the Sun Belt and CUSA?

Hawaii has been a BCS buster, plus is a hell of a nice road trip. Great school with a great baseball tradition as well.

LA Tech is another up and coming program that will do whatever they can to stay in the WAC and out of CUSA. Not sure they would even go, if invited. Most fans don't seem to be interested.

Nevada seems to be the next team poised to bust the BCS. They have a great program there rising up and have broken into the top 25 a few times the past couple of years.

Also, we have some pretty good basketball schools in Utah State, New Mexico State, and Nevada.

The WAC also has 4 guaranteed bowl spots per year, matched up against the Pac 10 and MWC in some pretty awesome cities ti visit. Not sure the Sun Belt (or CUSA) offers this for you guys.

Plus, let's not forget the caveat to this whole thing. We HAVE an ESPN contract for another 9 years which garauntees every WAC football and basketball teams gets at least 1 nationally televised game a year..

Edited June 23, 2010 by babigos

Eastwood Eagle · June 23, 2010

The ESPN contract coupled with the possibility of being a BCS buster is what I find highly attractive about the WAC. The only thing that scares me, along with others, if the travel- especially for non revenue sports.

babigos · June 23, 2010

The ESPN contract coupled with the possibility of being a BCS buster is what I find highly attractive about the WAC. The only thing that scares me, along with others, if the travel- especially for non revenue sports.

By making the BCS 3 times in 4 years, Hawaii and Boise State have given every team in the WAC plenty of money to offset travel expenses.

CMJ · June 23, 2010

By making the BCS 3 times in 4 years, Hawaii and Boise State have given every team in the WAC plenty of money to offset travel expenses.

And Boise is leaving while Hawaii is on the doward slide post June Jones. The WAC is a moneypit for a school as far East as we are

babigos · June 23, 2010

And Boise is leaving while Hawaii is on the doward slide post June Jones. The WAC is a moneypit for a school as far East as we are

So, what is the Sun Belt offering UNT? Any BCS busters, etc? How's the current bowl structure.? What about how the conference is perceived? The money just isn't there and you guys are supposedly in the Sun Belt's footprint. The WAC is a huge upgrade compared to the SBC.

Also, don't hold your breath for CUSA to send an invite. There would need to be a mass exodus of members there for UNT to even get considered. This may your best shot in upgrading the program for awhile.

If UNT is truly committed to their fans and improving, joining the WAC would be a big step in the right direction. Staying in the SBC and praying for a CUSA invite would cost the school millions in lost revenue.

Edited June 23, 2010 by babigos

CMJ · June 23, 2010

So, what is the Sun Belt offering UNT? Any BCS busters, etc. How's the current bowl structure.

Also, don't hold your breath for CUSA to send an invite. There would need to be a mass exodus of members there for UNT to even get considered.

Belt offers finacial stability for one. I prefer the Bowls we have to the ones the WAC has. The conference tournament is close enough for our fans to get to - I could never see more than a handful making it to Vegas for the WAC tournament. And if it goes back to Reno or wherever, I really couldn't see any making it.

Also, half the current WAC was in the Big West when we were in it. That whole era was a god awful mess for us. I was a student back then, and it nearly destroyed our fanbase.

I see you edited your post around the time I was posting so I didn't get to reply to all of it. Our revenues might go up in the WAC, but we'd spend a whole helluva lot more too. WAC would be bad news for us IMHO.

I'm not speaking for ME tho....hell if we were in the WAC I could go see us play SJSU and Fresno. As it is, I'm lucky to see us once a year if I can co-ordinate a trip home around the football or basketball season.

But I think it'd be a tremendous mistake for us to make that move.

Edited June 23, 2010 by CMJ

babigos · June 23, 2010

Belt offers finacial stability for one. I prefer the Bowls we have to the ones the WAC has. The conference tournament is close enough for our fans to get to - I could never see more than a handful making it to Vegas for the WAC tournament. And if it goes back to Reno or wherever, I really couldn't see any making it.

Also, half the current WAC was in the Big West when we were in it. That whole era was a god awful mess for us. I was a student back then, and it nearly destroyed our fanbase.

Don't mistake the Big West for the WAC. Completely different conferences. That's like comparing the Sun Belt to the SEC. One could see that's there's an obvious difference and be more excited about the latter. If I were a UNT fan, I'd want to get the hell out of the Sun Belt as quick as possible.

Also, what bowl games is the Sun Belt tied to right now? I'm finding 2.

Here's the WAC's current bowls. I'd find it hard to think that the SBC has better bowls than this, but that's subjective, I guess.

The Emerald Bowl in San Francisco - 2010 & 2013 (WAC vs Pac 10)

Hawaii Bowl- (WAC vs CUSA)

New Mexico Bowl - (WAC vs MWC)

Poinsettia Bowl - WAC vs MWC (2011 & 2012)

Humanitarian Bowl - (WAC vs MAC) - will be replaced with a new bowl after BSU leaves (maybe one in Texas?)

CMJ · June 23, 2010

Don't mistake the Big West for the WAC. Completely different conferences. That's like comparing the Sun Belt to the SEC. One could see that's there's an obvious difference and be more excited about the latter. If I were a UNT fan, I'd want to get the hell out of the Sun Belt as quick as possible.

I see Nevada, Utah State, Idaho...and Boise(who is leaving). You're right...it's not like we didn't play them every year in the Big West. We drew maybe half of what we draw now against the Belt.

Also, what bowl games is the Sun Belt tied to right now? I'm finding 2.

Here's the WAC's current bowls. I'd find it hard to think that the SBC has better bowls than this, but that's subjective, I guess.

The Emerald Bowl in San Francisco - 2010 & 2013 (WAC vs Pac 10)

Hawaii Bowl- (WAC vs CUSA)

New Mexico Bowl - (WAC vs MWC)

Poinsettia Bowl - WAC vs MWC (2011 & 2012)

Humanitarian Bowl - (WAC vs MAC) - will be replaced with a new bowl after BSU leaves (maybe one in Texas?)

Yeah we have two. I'd rather go see us play in New Orleans than any of the destinations yall have. New Orleans and Mobile are much easier for fans in Texas to get to than any of those locations. Not to mention the Humanitarian Bowl is likely to go away with the loss of BSU(plus not many of us would wanna goto Idaho in December!). The Hawaii Bowl depends upon Hawaii to make it to be solvent.

How about me asking why you're trying to convince us to come when other schools seem to be more interested? Any look at the informal polls around here show the majority of us do not want the WAC. Now, we may join your league, and if so - so be it. I won't like it though.

Edited June 23, 2010 by CMJ

babigos · June 23, 2010

I see Nevada, Utah State, Idaho...and Boise(who is leaving). You're right...it's not like we didn't play them every year in the Big West. We drew maybe half of what we draw now against the Belt. Again, not the same conference. Welcome to D1 (FBS if you like). You're comparing apples to oranges.

Yeah we have two. I'd rather go see us play in New Orleans than any of the destinations yall have. New orleans and Mobile are much easier for fans in Texas to get to than any of those locations. Not to mention the Humanitarian Bowl is likely to go away with the loss of BSU(plus not many of us would wanna goto Idaho in December!). The Hawaii Bowl depends upon Hawaii to make it to be solvent. Last I looked, San Diego, San Francisco, Hawaii, and Boise were all direct flights from Dallas. If you're happy with two bowls for the whole conference, then there's nothing I can do here to convince you about having 2 more bowls than you do now. I guess you're happy with settling and that's fine. Not everyone has the same aspirations in life.

How about me asking why you're trying to convince us to come when other schools seem to be more interested? Any look at the informal polls around here show the majority of us do not want the WAC. Now, we may join your league, and if so - so be it. I won't like it though. Personally, I think UNT is a good fit for the WAC. I think that people on here who don't want to be in the WAC are just not being realistic about your school's future. CUSA is not going to send an invite anytime soon. It's time to be a little realistic there.

Edited June 23, 2010 by babigos

CMJ · June 23, 2010

The Big West was Division 1...or FBS if you like. And considering about half the membership is the same, it's not apples to oranges. Maybe Granny Smith apples to McIntosh

The WAC has four Bowls...soon to be 3...and maybe less. That's just the facts. Hawaii has already lost Bowls in the past. The Humanitarian is probably gone - and that's somewhere we wouldn't wanna go anyways.

As far as direct flights....sure. But our fans can DRIVE to New Orleans and Mobile. I know this because I did it.

As far as CUSA, sure we want in badly - because we want to play Texas schools. And not just Texas schools, but ones that used to be in the old SWC. But even if we never got into CUSA, I'd still rather be in the Belt than the WAC.

Edited June 23, 2010 by CMJ

babigos · June 23, 2010

The Big West was Division 1...or FBS if you like. And considering about half the membership is the same, it's not apples to oranges. Maybe Granny Smith apples to McIntosh

The WAC has four Bowls...soon to be 3...and maybe less. That's just the facts. Hawaii has already lost Bowls in the past. The Humanitarian is probably gone - and that's somewhere we wouldn't wanna go anyways.

As far as direct flights....sure. But our fans can DRIVE to New Orleans and Mobile. I know this because I did it.

As far as CUSA, sure we want in badly - because we want to play Texas schools. And not just Texas schools, but ones that used to be in the old SWC. But even if we never got into CUSA, I'd still rather be in the Belt than the WAC.

Sorry, you're right; "D1." The old Big West was worse off than the SBC and perceived as the worst of the worst. SJSU had success in the Big West, back in the 80s, but the 90s were less than memorable. The WAC currently (even without BSU) does not have that type of apathy and perception.

Another thing of note, if a ranked team comes into your house, you're going to see fans come out in droves. Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, and Nevada (when ranked) are some of the biggest draws for any WAC team. I don't see why UNT would be any different. A ranked team is a ranked team, no matter where they're from. If fans can get up for a top 25 opponent, then that's a problem.

As far a losing a bowl game, most don't see that happening. Boise is not taking the H-Bowl with them. The MWC already has their bowl tie-ins and is not interested in it. More likely than not, the bowl game will move back down to warmer climate or even stay in Idaho. 4 bowls = money and more exposure for WAC teams.

If WAC commish Karl Benson has done anything right, it's having enough bowl games for WAC teams with winning records, to go to.

Also, if you want to play Texas schools, you get 4 OOC games a year. Why not schedule them then? We've been able to schedule Stanford every year and they're in the Pac 10.

Anyway, I'm not going to change your mind, because you obviously have your reasons. Just don't expect an invite from CUSA, because I have a feeling you'll be waiting along time. Ask LA Tech. They've finally given up on that hope and have embraced the WAC and are now flirting with the top of the conference..

Edited June 23, 2010 by babigos

CMJ · June 23, 2010

Probably hurt their ego some that we were just as close (if not closer) as a "crappy SBC school" to getting into CUSA a few years ago than they were. Supposedly it was between UTEP, LA Tech, and us.

We'll see how much longer LA Tech can stay in the WAC once all the BCS Bowl money dries up. They're also about to be hit hard by the state of Louisiana's budget crisis. Things will be tough for them very soon. They will do all they can to stay in the WAC, and it'll probably have an extremely detrimental impact on their competitiveness in all sports as their budget is sucked up by all that travel. I suspect they'll stay in the WAC for the forseeable future, but all their programs will regress.

Much like ours did in the old Big West.

Edited June 23, 2010 by CMJ

Legend500 · June 23, 2010

I think one of the biggest concerns for the WAC right now is probably a Sun Belt poach. If we can eject ULM (I know! betrayal! in college football!) and add LATech and NMSU, that murders their conference. The WAC without Boise is nothing - the only reason Hawaii, Fresno and Nevada got any attention was because Boise was getting it, too. Without Boise, the WAC is name-only, and the difference between WAC, SBC and MAC is trivial.

The CUSA invite will happen. If not, we should improve the house we're in. As for the WAC - too bad.

stebo · June 23, 2010

Welcome to the board babigos, not everyone on here is Anti-WAC, it is about 65/35 according to our poll against the WAC. I think that would drastically swing to the 65/35 in FAVOR if NT was invited along with UL and ASU. That would give us a nice Eastern Division and some security. CUSA could still get raided and La Tech (or NT) could get poached as a replacement. We would feel pretty stupid to leave our stable conference to save the WAC only to have our only other Central Time Zone team leave us as the new red headed step child of the WAC. Here is what I posted in another thread about comparing the WAC to the Big West - in my opinion, there is no comparison... and people forget, those Big West football teams were pretty salty. We NEVER lost our bowl games to the MAC back then, it was just a given that the BW rep would destroy the MAC rep (which was their champ) every year in Vegas. Here is my post:

Man, you guys get mean with each other. The Big West was a mish mosh conference but there was some damn good football played in it. North Texas was underfunded back then, we were barely surviving on a $6.7 million dollar athletic budget. The BIGGEST drain were the non-revenue sports of which the Big West had a ton of non-football playing California schools to deal with (UCSB, Pacific, UC-Irvine, Cal Poly, etc..). Our program was in its infancy and had not built a fan base. We did not have tailgating - it was illegal on campus... so to compare the two attendance averages is jut not fair. We didn't even have an active fan message board.

All that being said, I would want to go with Arkie State and UL. Take those two schools, add La Tech, North Texas, and NMSU and you have a solid division for the Eastern WAC. The bowl in New Mexico is suitable for us but a better bowl would need to be worked out. The Belt could continue to work on the Sun Belt footprint of the Southeast and possibly add schools like UTSA, Texas State, and Appy State to replace outgoing members.

The main reason why I said yes- it is called playing defense. Texas State is ready to take advantage of this environment, so is UTSA. If we say no - they will likely get an invite and that would hurt us in my opinion. Think about how you will feel, really - if you watch Texas State go into the WAC and we stay in the Belt. There is a pecking order in college football and unfortunately, the Belt is at the bottom. I think that we could move up that ladder with the WAC. One thing that would need to be put in place - a legal commitment from all schools that they will stay in the conference for at least 5 years. It would completely suck if we were to move to the WAC with UL and ASU and watch La Tech move off to CUSA. We would essentially be saving the WAC and in exchange, they would need to guarantee our security. Just my opinion, nothing else. Please don't scream at me or tell me that I am stupid. Its not neccesary, ok?

UNTflyer · June 23, 2010

I'm with you babigos. We should go WAC *if* no other options present itself. At the same time, the WAC should look for more than one team. Recruit us, Arkansas State, Tulsa, and UTEP.

Got5onIt · June 23, 2010

I think one of the biggest concerns for the WAC right now is probably a Sun Belt poach. If we can eject ULM (I know! betrayal! in college football!) and add LATech and NMSU, that murders their conference. The WAC without Boise is nothing - the only reason Hawaii, Fresno and Nevada got any attention was because Boise was getting it, too. Without Boise, the WAC is name-only, and the difference between WAC, SBC and MAC is trivial.

The CUSA invite will happen. If not, we should improve the house we're in. As for the WAC - too bad.

Wrong. hawaii & especially, Fresno St. had history way before Boise became a powerhouse.

Eastwood Eagle · June 23, 2010

I'm with you babigos. We should go WAC *if* no other options present itself. At the same time, the WAC should look for more than one team. Recruit us, Arkansas State, Tulsa, and UTEP.

Yeah, I like the idea taking UTEP or Tulsa along with us, but would they want to leave CUSA?

drex · June 23, 2010

I hope we go to the WAC because I can't wait for the Humanitarian Bowl. There is just something about a blue playing field and blue players' faces (sub zero) that I find irresistable. The 4,000 mile trip to Boise is also a plus for fans.

UNTFan23 · June 23, 2010

I hope we go to the WAC because I can't wait for the Humanitarian Bowl. There is just something about a blue playing field and blue players' faces (sub zero) that I find irresistable. The 4,000 mile trip to Boise is also a plus for fans.

I appreciate your sarcasm. +1 for you, sir.

UNTflyer · June 23, 2010

It's doubtful the Humanitarian bowl stays in Boise.

Eastwood Eagle · June 23, 2010

I hope we go to the WAC because I can't wait for the Humanitarian Bowl. There is just something about a blue playing field and blue players' faces (sub zero) that I find irresistable. The 4,000 mile trip to Boise is also a plus for fans.

I wonder if fans would travel to Glendale, Arizona to play in, idk, the Fiesta Bowl like Bosie State has played in a couple of times the past several years. The thought of becoming the next BSU is what excites fans about membership with the WAC.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Eastwood Eagle

Shof · June 23, 2010

Welcome to the board babigos, not everyone on here is Anti-WAC, it is about 65/35 according to our poll against the WAC. I think that would drastically swing to the 65/35 in FAVOR if NT was invited along with UL and ASU. That would give us a nice Eastern Division and some security. CUSA could still get raided and La Tech (or NT) could get poached as a replacement. We would feel pretty stupid to leave our stable conference to save the WAC only to have our only other Central Time Zone team leave us as the new red headed step child of the WAC. Here is what I posted in another thread about comparing the WAC to the Big West - in my opinion, there is no comparison... and people forget, those Big West football teams were pretty salty. We NEVER lost our bowl games to the MAC back then, it was just a given that the BW rep would destroy the MAC rep (which was their champ) every year in Vegas. Here is my post:

Man, you guys get mean with each other. The Big West was a mish mosh conference but there was some damn good football played in it. North Texas was underfunded back then, we were barely surviving on a $6.7 million dollar athletic budget. The BIGGEST drain were the non-revenue sports of which the Big West had a ton of non-football playing California schools to deal with (UCSB, Pacific, UC-Irvine, Cal Poly, etc..). Our program was in its infancy and had not built a fan base. We did not have tailgating - it was illegal on campus... so to compare the two attendance averages is jut not fair. We didn't even have an active fan message board.

All that being said, I would want to go with Arkie State and UL. Take those two schools, add La Tech, North Texas, and NMSU and you have a solid division for the Eastern WAC. The bowl in New Mexico is suitable for us but a better bowl would need to be worked out. The Belt could continue to work on the Sun Belt footprint of the Southeast and possibly add schools like UTSA, Texas State, and Appy State to replace outgoing members.

The main reason why I said yes- it is called playing defense. Texas State is ready to take advantage of this environment, so is UTSA. If we say no - they will likely get an invite and that would hurt us in my opinion. Think about how you will feel, really - if you watch Texas State go into the WAC and we stay in the Belt. There is a pecking order in college football and unfortunately, the Belt is at the bottom. I think that we could move up that ladder with the WAC. One thing that would need to be put in place - a legal commitment from all schools that they will stay in the conference for at least 5 years. It would completely suck if we were to move to the WAC with UL and ASU and watch La Tech move off to CUSA. We would essentially be saving the WAC and in exchange, they would need to guarantee our security. Just my opinion, nothing else. Please don't scream at me or tell me that I am stupid. Its not neccesary, ok?

From a UL perspective, I agree with a lot of what you say Stebo. Certainly there was a time when NT, UL and ASU going to the WAC was VERY intriguing. And I believe if that option would have been on the table from the WAC, all 3 would have jumped on it. Today I think the WAC is more unstable than the Sun Belt; so without assurances from existing schools, and perhaps even 1 or 2 more "eastern" schools in the mix, it would be a great risk to move "west". Someone else mentioned UTEP and/or Tulsa. That would be great, but not sure either perceive the move as an improvement on CUSA - even with UTEP's geographic misfit.

Regarding LaTech's "happiness" in the WAC, let there be no mistake. While they believe the WAC to be much better than the SBC, they would jump at a CUSA invite in a NY minute if offered! They seem appreciative of what the WAC has provided them, but they are a worse misfit geographically in the WAC than UTEP is in CUSA! And finances are DEFINITELY a big deal right now for ALL the Louisiana schools.

UNTflyer · June 23, 2010

I wonder if fans would travel to Glendale, Arizona to play in, idk, the Fiesta Bowl like Bosie State has played in a couple of times the past several years. The thought of becoming the next BSU is what excites fans about membership with the WAC.

Hell the New Orleans Bowl is so much closer! Who cares that it's the next to lowest rated bowl game of the season, what matters is getting our fans to the game!

OK, it does matter but right now we also need marketing opportunities that come with better bowls. I'd love to play in the Poinsettia Bowl or the New Mexico Bowl. Hawaii bowl, yeah maybe... Christmas in Hawaii might not be bad.

Edited June 23, 2010 by UNTflyer

Side Show Joe · June 23, 2010

I think it is time to go to the WAC. Those arguing that North Texas should stay in the Belt and work to improve it, are missing one very important point. One school can't improve the Sun Belt. It will take alot of hard work from all the universities to build the Belt, and that's not going to happen. The idea of building the Belt is more then just working hard to improve, its about working harder then other conferences to move ahead of them, and we just are not going to see that kind of commitment from top to bottom in the Sun Belt.

UNTFan23 · June 23, 2010

I wonder if fans would travel to Glendale, Arizona to play in, idk, the Fiesta Bowl like Bosie State has played in a couple of times the past several years. The thought of becoming the next BSU is what excites fans about membership with the WAC.

I think for North Texas to become the next Boise, we should be in a more region conference. The WAC is not very regional for North Texas.