Two Questions

KRAM1 · June 23, 2010

Since I work with the current students and deal with them daily. I will be happy to tell you why they don't go to the games. It is because we aren't good and they don't care to watch a bad team. They don't care who our opponent is more than they want to see us destroy them. And we don't. So they don't come out. That is the one constant I hear from students.

Travis, this may be true, but what a sad comment on the attitudes of current UNT students. There should be something more than winning that brings a student out for a game...maybe to support their university or the guys working their tails off to represent their university on the field, or all the band members who practice night and day in good weather and bad to represent their university, the cheerleaders perhaps or maybe just some plain old fashioned school spirit. If today's students cannot find a way to enjoy a Saturday afternoon or evening at a UNT football game then we have a very un-creative and dull bunch of students. What you say may be 100% true, but it's a sad attitude.

If winning is the key, as you allude...and the ONLY key to student attendance, then tell me why student attendance at basketball games where UNT is the SBC tournament champ and an NCAA tourney team, is so poor as well?????????

Has to be something more.

KingDL1 · June 23, 2010

Since I work with the current students and deal with them daily. I will be happy to tell you why they don't go to the games. It is because we aren't good and they don't care to watch a bad team. They don't care who our opponent is more than they want to see us destroy them. And we don't. So they don't come out. That is the one constant I hear from students.

I think we need to understand the balance that winning and named opponents both matter, we were on a 26 straight game winning streak running through the belt and we still were not having great attendance, until we played Baylor. The students easiest excuse is our record right now, but if we start winning it will be the same thing we never play anyone I have heard of at home. But good things are happening, with enrollment increasing and more students living on and around campus then ever before we will naturally increase our attendance. Plus the population in and around Denton is really booming and that is going to help. We start winning and every time we play a team the general public as an idea who they are we will have great attendance.

UNTFan23 · June 23, 2010

I think we need to understand the balance that winning and named opponents both matter, we were on a 26 straight game winning streak running through the belt and we still were not having great attendance, until we played Baylor. The students easiest excuse is our record right now, but if we start winning it will be the same thing we never play anyone I have heard of at home. But good things are happening, with enrollment increasing and more students living on and around campus then ever before we will naturally increase our attendance. Plus the population in and around Denton is really booming and that is going to help. We start winning and every time we play a team the general public as an idea who they are we will have great attendance.

If you look at our highest attended games in Fouts, you comment about playing teams that people recognize is valid. The question/concern I have is whether the WAC has that recognition with the fickle DFW sports fan. I think you can count on one hand the number of WAC teams we've played since we joined the Sun Belt, so whether the WAC has that recognition for more casual NT fans in DFW is unknown.

UNTLifer · June 23, 2010

If you look at our highest attended games in Fouts, you comment about playing teams that people recognize is valid. The question/concern I have is whether the WAC has that recognition with the fickle DFW sports fan. I think you can count on one hand the number of WAC teams we've played since we joined the Sun Belt, so whether the WAC has that recognition for more casual NT fans in DFW is unknown.

Anyone have access to the attendance figures of SMU or TCU when they were part of the WAC?

KingDL1 · June 23, 2010

If you look at our highest attended games in Fouts, you comment about playing teams that people recognize is valid. The question/concern I have is whether the WAC has that recognition with the fickle DFW sports fan. I think you can count on one hand the number of WAC teams we've played since we joined the Sun Belt, so whether the WAC has that recognition for more casual NT fans in DFW is unknown.

I think there is a better perception with some of these WAC schools, is it dramatically better no. But also look at other schools that have used the Wac as a stepping stone. I think every little step up helps. When I say we are playing LaM I get looks like we are about to play the waterboy. I am not going have a problem sleeping either way I just think from a perception point of view the WAC is better in general and we could use all the help we can get.

Edited June 23, 2010 by KingDL1

CMJ · June 23, 2010

Travis, this may be true, but what a sad comment on the attitudes of current UNT students. There should be something more than winning that brings a student out for a game...maybe to support their university or the guys working their tails off to represent their university on the field, or all the band members who practice night and day in good weather and bad to represent their university, the cheerleaders perhaps or maybe just some plain old fashioned school spirit. If today's students cannot find a way to enjoy a Saturday afternoon or evening at a UNT football game then we have a very un-creative and dull bunch of students. What you say may be 100% true, but it's a sad attitude.

If winning is the key, as you allude...and the ONLY key to student attendance, then tell me why student attendance at basketball games where UNT is the SBC tournament champ and an NCAA tourney team, is so poor as well?????????

Has to be something more.

It's not where we'd like it to be, but it's a ton better than when I was in school. Something has definitely helped the basketball attendence since the late 90's - I'll assume it's winning.

Edited June 23, 2010 by CMJ

filmerj · June 23, 2010

1. NO

2. YES

TheColonyEagle · June 24, 2010

1. NO

2. YES

NT80 · June 24, 2010

I think there is a better perception with some of these WAC schools, is it dramatically better no. But also look at other schools that have used the Wac as a stepping stone. I think every little step up helps. When I say we are playing LaM I get looks like we are about to play the waterboy. I am not going have a problem sleeping either way I just think from a perception point of view the WAC is better in general and we could use all the help we can get.

I agree with this. The WAC is about an improvement in perception of opponent over the SBC. That's all, just an investment in PR, but a good investment. I doubt you could find any publication ranking SBC football above WAC football as a conference.

Opponent image is important, especially to non-BCS programs trying to draw crowds. There is a reason only one or two of the Top 10 attendance games at Fouts was a conference game...opponents fans wanted to see were not in our conference. Thus, get in a conference with better known or more regional rival opponents.

UNTLifer · June 24, 2010

Does anyone have access to the Top Ten attended games in Fouts history?

Daddy Dumpsalot · June 24, 2010

Ok, A&M, OU, Nebraska, LSU, Florida, Alabama all sell out games against SBC schools. Maybe one of their models will work better. Again, I am not saying that we are comparable to these schools, but they can anybody, including 1AA, and sell it out. We should be trying to put a winning product on the field and it will not matter who we play.

Im sorry forever. You cannot compare the schools listed to UNT and the reason being because usually they play an SBC in the home opener and everyone is so excited about the game that they dont care who they play. And secondly (specifically UT) seats are harder to come by there so getting in to see a game, any game, is something that a fan desires. I can also say that when UT plays against a SBC team the tickets are all of a sudden given away and easier to get. Your argument doesn't work.

And to those that say to get students to come to the games it's all about winning...why didn't it work during the seasons we won the SBC championships? Why is our attendance higher now than it was then? Why is our attendance higher when we play named opponents? Because when I ask students and my fraternity brothers why they dont go to the games their response is overwhelmingly because the teams we play suck. The layman's definition of suck is an opponent they haven't heard of.

I can't believe that you people are arguing that the SBC is somehow superior to the WAC.

MeanGreenTexan · June 24, 2010

Im sorry forever. You cannot compare the schools listed to UNT and the reason being because usually they play an SBC in the home opener and everyone is so excited about the game that they dont care who they play. And secondly (specifically UT) seats are harder to come by there so getting in to see a game, any game, is something that a fan desires. I can also say that when UT plays against a SBC team the tickets are all of a sudden given away and easier to get. Your argument doesn't work.

And to those that say to get students to come to the games it's all about winning...why didn't it work during the seasons we won the SBC championships? Why is our attendance higher now than it was then? Why is our attendance higher when we play named opponents? Because when I ask students and my fraternity brothers why they dont go to the games their response is overwhelmingly because the teams we play suck. The layman's definition of suck is an opponent they haven't heard of.

I can't believe that you people are arguing that the SBC is somehow superior to the WAC.

There is too much rule breaking going on in this thread. Please, can you people make your points with a simple "Yes" or "No"? I don't think it was too much of Lifer to ask...

cdizzle86 · June 24, 2010

There is too much rule breaking going on in this thread. Please, can you people make your points with a simple "Yes" or "No"? I don't think it was too much of Lifer to ask...

Yea Daddy Dumps, how dare you bring reason into this thread. -1

eppy4life · June 24, 2010

I hate all of you. Just when I think I've decided where I stand on this issue someone on here sways me the other direction.

At least it's just a hypothetical question.

forevereagle · June 24, 2010

Im sorry forever. You cannot compare the schools listed to UNT and the reason being because usually they play an SBC in the home opener and everyone is so excited about the game that they dont care who they play. And secondly (specifically UT) seats are harder to come by there so getting in to see a game, any game, is something that a fan desires. I can also say that when UT plays against a SBC team the tickets are all of a sudden given away and easier to get. Your argument doesn't work.

And to those that say to get students to come to the games it's all about winning...why didn't it work during the seasons we won the SBC championships? Why is our attendance higher now than it was then? Why is our attendance higher when we play named opponents? Because when I ask students and my fraternity brothers why they dont go to the games their response is overwhelmingly because the teams we play suck. The layman's definition of suck is an opponent they haven't heard of.

I can't believe that you people are arguing that the SBC is somehow superior to the WAC.

I think you missed my point or didn't care to get it.

Daddy Dumpsalot · June 24, 2010

My fellow GMGers: I have come to decide that this board is right and that the Sunbelt Conference is better than the WAC. I don't want to recreate the Big West conference of 10+ years ago. I will forever look forward to the day that the Sunbelt gets the recognition it so desperately deserves; hopefully another 10 years will do just that. I think by staying in this conference we can help build it to its full potential and then we can really build a name for ourselves, even if it takes another decade. I am committed to sitting by and watching the other Sunbelt schools advance go to other conferences (which are not near the quality of the SBC) while we wait and build. Furthermore, I am extremely excited to see what the newly accepted D-2 or equivalent schools will bring to the Belt.

Forgive me for disagreeing with your points of view and being so stubborn in my thinking that I did not catch on to this truth sooner.

Carry on and long live the Belt.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Daddy Dumpsalot

greenminer · June 24, 2010

I haven't read anything about other Belt teams exiting...but admit I have not really been looking at this.

We can argue every offseason (and it will happen) about who wants what. I would prefer a discussion that focuses on the people that are actually making this decision, and what they want.

When A&M, Texas and OU agreed to turn down the PAC10/SEC invites, it had just about everything to do with the new TV contract that the Big XII commission scored. Just my humble opinion, but this leads me to believe that a lot of this shuffling around is driven more by "show me the money" and not so much about conference prestige. Otherwise, I think (at least) A&M would have jumped at a chance to be in the SEC. Regardless of all of our opinions of the WAC's prestige or lack there-of, I think RV is looking at the potential travel costs and evaluating all kinds of theoretical/potential budget scenarios presented by WAC membership.

Personally hated the WAC when UTEP was in it. The charter MWC members I am sure got tired of Hawaii-SJSU road trips and did the smart thing.

Boise also did nothing for the WAC. Brought in money? how much for the other members and to what end? Who has really turned it around because of Boise's success? If the WAC is crumbling after 15 years with various combinations of BYU, Boise, etc, how could it possibly benefit us without any of those institutions?

The WAC has been dying in slow motion for 15 years. I do not care to be associated at all with Karl Benson.

greenminer · June 24, 2010

my bad.

1. No

2. No

ADLER · June 25, 2010

1. No

2. Yes

Eastwood Eagle · June 25, 2010

1. Yes

2. No

Cr1028 · June 28, 2010

1. no

2. yes

foutsrouts · June 28, 2010

So right now people are getting happy pants from playing Florida International, Florida Atlantic and Western Kentucy (practically a 1AA team)? That is the comparison you are making. I know none of those teams do anything for me.

Now let's compare the top end teams - which gets you and the average fan more exited?

Fresno State / Hawaii / Louisiana Tech or

Troy / MTSU / Arkansas state.

I would wager the WAC top three.

I go with Fresno/Hawaii/LA Tech (and Nevada/NM State)

Our recent attendance bump can be traced solely to the anticipation and excitement (LOL) of Dodgeball, as well as a couple of service academy games and such. Our lack of attendance in The Big West was mainly related to the fact that we had just left 1AA and that our teams generally sucked. As far as the question goes:

1.YES!

2.YES!

I think that "most" older NT fans support a move anywhere upward, while "most" younger NT fans seem to be more accustomed to the mediocrity. Well, mediocrity in football for the past five years may be a bit of a stretch, but you probably get my point. I know that just about everyone I know who was around the program in the late 70's supports change.