Two Questions

[Rudy]

good one. watch out for those tortillas.

Enjoy the reprecussions if you try.

So you're saying that since the suckbelt is so strong that is why our attendance has "doubled" (which it hasn't)? wow...that sure is optimistic...i'm sure that it hasn't had anything to do with enrollment increase or our new head coach and new style of offense. I mean I for sure and the students I have spoken with can barely sleep the night before our big home game against Florida International.

WAC > Belt. Period.

Once again, prove that attendance has not doubled. I have been through the WAC and sbc years. And I do think that there are other factors that just the teams we are playing that has led to our increased attendance.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Once again, prove that attendance has not doubled. I have been through the WAC and sbc years. And I do think that there are other factors that just the teams we are playing that has led to our increased attendance.

No.

[UNTFan23]

I think this thread has reached its end of life.

[stebo]

Man, you guys get mean with each other. The Big West was a mish mosh conference but there was some damn good football played in it. North Texas was underfunded back then, we were barely surviving on a $7 million dollar athletic budget. The BIGGEST drain were the non-revenue sports of which the Big West had a ton of California schools to deal with (UCSB, Pacific, UC-Irvine, Cal Poly, etc..). Our program was in its infancy and had not built a fan base. We did not have tailgating - it was illegal on campus... so to compare the two attendance averages is jut not fair. We didn't even have an active fan message board.

All that being said, I would want to go with Arkie State and UL. Take those two schools, add La Tech, North Texas, and NMSU and you have a solid division for the Eastern WAC. The bowl in New Mexico is suitable for us but a better bowl would need to be worked out. The Belt could continue to work on the Sun Belt footprint of the Southeast and possible add schools like UTSA, Texas State, and Appy State to replace outgoing members.

The main reason why I said yes, it is called playing defense. Texas State is ready to take advantage of this environment, so is UTSA. If we say no - they will likely get an invite and that would hurt us in my opinion. Think about how you will feel, really - if you watch Texas State go into the WAC and we stay in the Belt. There is a pecking order in college football and unfortunately, the Belt is at the bottom. I think that we could move up that ladder with the WAC. One thing that would need to be put in place - a legal commitment from all schools that they will stay in the conference for at least 5 years. It would completely suck if we were to move to the WAC with UL and ASU and watch La Tech move off to CUSA. We would essentially be saving the WAC and in exchange, they would need to guarantee our security. Just my opinion, nothing else. Please don't scream at me or tell me that I am stupid. Its not neccesary, ok?

[VideoEagle]

So you're saying that since the suckbelt is so strong that is why our attendance has "doubled" (which it hasn't)? wow...that sure is optimistic...i'm sure that it hasn't had anything to do with enrollment increase or our new head coach and new style of offense. I mean I for sure and the students I have spoken with can barely sleep the night before our big home game against Florida International.

WAC > Belt. Period.

Game attendance since the Big West days is well over double. There were games - exciting games - that ended with under 1000 total in the stands on both the student and reserved sides. No, it was not due to enrollment as our enrollment had not increased anywhere near double since 1996. New head coach? Actually we had two since 1996. Those games with the worst attendance featured an offense with 5 wide receivers on a LOT of plays so it wasn't style of play and it was in the Big West.

Actually, I think RV's changes including tailgating had more of an effect on the increases than our conference or the win/loss record.

When USU, Idaho and NMSU joined the WAC, their home attendance didn't change much. I don't have the figures handy, but Arkstfan did a comparison a while back. As Idaho has started winning more, their attendance has improved. People will not consistently come out to see who you are playing; if they are going to come out consistently it is to see the home team no matter who they are playing. Getting people interested in seeing the home team no matter who they are playing is exactly how TCU has been marketing themselves for the past decade. That is why they have a good crowd from schools even when hosting Wyoming and New Mexico.

[MCMLXXX]

All that being said, I would want to go with Arkie State and UL. Take those two schools, add La Tech, North Texas, and NMSU and you have a solid division for the Eastern WAC. The bowl in New Mexico is suitable for us but a better bowl would need to be worked out. The Belt could continue to work on the Sun Belt footprint of the Southeast and possible add schools like UTSA, Texas State, and Appy State to replace outgoing members.

The WAC had the chance to add NT,ULL, and ASU alltogether last time and would not do it. They only wanted one more team and reluctuncly settled for Idaho. A decision on the WAC should consider the financial situation of WAC schools (ex.SJSU and FSU), the possibility of Hawaii going indie, etc. As far as WAC expansion, consider that they are more likely to add western schools (ex. Montana, Portland State, etc) for budgetary reasons. With the Louisiana budget crisis I think that it is far more likely that La Tech will leave the WAC than it is that other schools will accomodate them.

Nonetheless, if I ran the WAC I would try to add UNT, ASU, ULL, and TSU (a more compact grouping with LT and NMSU), add a Championship game between division winners at the home of the team with the best record and would break a tie with home average attendance numbers, and try to negotiate the best TV contract that I could.

[ntmeangreen11]

Nonetheless, if I ran the WAC I would try to add UNT, ASU, ULL, and TSU (a more compact grouping with LT and NMSU), add a Championship game between division winners at the home of the team with the best record and would break a tie with home average attendance numbers, and try to negotiate the best TV contract that I could.

That's the only way I would want to move. The only thing I would add is Hawaii going independent and then adding Missouri State. This would most definitely be a move up in basketball, football, and most importantly, perception. However, I want to see what is going to happen with the big ten and big east and whether that trickle down effect will possibly get us a chance at CUSA.

Either way, with a new stadium and a perceived upward move to either CUSA or WAC it would blow the roof off of our potential with a new class of recruits.

In it's current state, I don't think a move to the WAC would be smart, what happens if we move and then CUSA opens up and La. Tech gets that spot? Now we're the LT of the WAC. A conference move would be all over the news and get us good pub which would also lead to them mentioning the stadium, if the above teams are added and there's a west/east and the costs of other sports proves to be about the same because we are playing mostly schools in the east division, I say jump.

If it makes sense financially and they have 3 guaranteed bowl games and a better television contract, I think we should do it. If CUSA opens up and we get passed by again after turning down the WAC we'll be sitting in an even worse sun belt and pretty much stuck there I don't see how we could move conferences if the CUSA takes WKU, MT, TROY or one of the Florida schools.

I think with the new stadium coming a new way of thinking needs to come too, we need to think big, and sitting in the worst conference of all(I don't care about saragin or ratings, it's what the average joe thinks) which could get raided by CUSA of it's flagship eastern members is not big. Create and east/west and let's be the next Boise State.

[eppy4life]

good one. watch out for those tortillas.

Dumb. It's always fun to threaten someone with tortillas on a message board! This site makes me laugh.

[TeachinTodd]

1. No (but not for the reasons you might think)

2. Yes

[Stan R]

Our attendence has more than doubled since we joined the Belt. You weren't at games from 1996-2000. I bet we averaged about 7K butts in seats.....if we were lucky.

But I would contend that that was more to do with the lack of tailgating than anything else. I was there during that time frame and the days of the game were dead until the game started. That isn't the case now. You think people care more about Florida International than Nevada or Idaho? Don't think so, it's a wash. I would be willing to bet that we would get MUCH larger crowds for the combo of Hawaii/Fresno State/NMSU than ANYTHING the belt has to offer, including MTSU/Troy/???whocares-state. And who was our biggest rival in the Sun Belt until recently? NMSU. Oh - the irony.

Just my .02

[cdizzle86]

But I would contend that that was more to do with the lack of tailgating than anything else. I was there during that time frame and the days of the game were dead until the game started. That isn't the case now. You think people care more about Florida International than Nevada or Idaho? Don't think so, it's a wash. I would be willing to bet that we would get MUCH larger crowds for the combo of Hawaii/Fresno State/NMSU than ANYTHING the belt has to offer, including MTSU/Troy/???whocares-state. And who was our biggest rival in the Sun Belt until recently? NMSU. Oh - the irony.

Just my .02

I'm beginning to think that even if we did have a decent football team, we still wouldn't be able to fill the stands playing ULM, FIU, FAU, etc. Not too many people care about them and not too many people care about us, which is why we need to move to another conference and start creating a sense of value with other teams that people DO care about.

[UNTFan23]

I'm beginning to think that even if we did have a decent football team, we still wouldn't be able to fill the stands playing ULM, FIU, FAU, etc. Not too many people care about them and not too many people care about us, which is why we need to move to another conference and start creating a sense of value with other teams that people DO care about.

What makes you think that people will care about us playing teams like San Jose State, Utah State, and Idaho?

[Green Lantern]

But I would contend that that was more to do with the lack of tailgating than anything else. I was there during that time frame and the days of the game were dead until the game started. That isn't the case now. You think people care more about Florida International than Nevada or Idaho? Don't think so, it's a wash. I would be willing to bet that we would get MUCH larger crowds for the combo of Hawaii/Fresno State/NMSU than ANYTHING the belt has to offer, including MTSU/Troy/???whocares-state. And who was our biggest rival in the Sun Belt until recently? NMSU. Oh - the irony.

Just my .02

Don't really care to weigh in on the realignment aspect of the discussion, but I think you (& Stebo) do bring up a solid point about game day atmosphere and the correlation to attendance. The late 90's were miserable as far as game day was concerned. I couldn't pay friends to come to the games with me.

The building of our tailgate/pre-game scene over the years has everything to do with increased attendance (not our opponents). People always say "North Texas fans should just show up to watch NT play". In my estimation, that's exactly what's happening. We've had very few marquee home games over the past decade. You can count those games on two hands. I bring new people to games all the time, and they almost without fail comment on how much fun the North Texas pre-game experience is. Couple that growing and evolving pre-game experience, with a winning team & a new stadium, and we'll be on to something.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Green Lantern

[Stan R]

What makes you think that people will care about us playing teams like San Jose State, Utah State, and Idaho?

So right now people are getting happy pants from playing Florida International, Florida Atlantic and Western Kentucy (practically a 1AA team)? That is the comparison you are making. I know none of those teams do anything for me.

Now let's compare the top end teams - which gets you and the average fan more exited?

Fresno State / Hawaii / Louisiana Tech or

Troy / MTSU / Arkansas state.

I would wager the WAC top three.

[UNTFan23]

So right now people are getting happy pants from playing Florida International, Florida Atlantic and Western Kentucy (practically a 1AA team)? That is the comparison you are making. I know none of those teams do anything for me.

Now let's compare the top end teams - which gets you and the average fan more exited?

Fresno State / Hawaii / Louisiana Tech or

Troy / MTSU / Arkansas state.

I would wager the WAC top three.

Given how fickle the DFW fan is, I think winning would get more people excited to see North Texas. I don't think the conference is as important as people want to really make it be in terms of getting people to games, but winning will get you far more fans to the games than the best or worse the Sun Belt or the WAC has to offer. I think we would easily crack 20,000 against Fresno if we're early in the season but whether Fresno would draw more than Troy is anyone's guess. If we're in the middle or at the end of another bad season, I'll bet it's a draw between Troy and Fresno.

Edited June 23, 2010 by UNTFan23

[KingDL1]

Given how fickle the DFW fan is, I think winning would get more people excited to see North Texas. I don't think the conference is as important as people want to really make it be in terms of getting people to games, but winning will get you far more fans to the games than the best or worse the Sun Belt or the WAC has to offer. I think we would easily crack 20,000 against Fresno if we're early in the season but whether Fresno would draw more than Troy is anyone's guess. If we're in the middle or at the end of another bad season, I'll bet it's a draw between Troy and Fresno.

Yes

Yes

I think the perception is much better for the WAC, perception is reality, and I know that most of the people outside the UNT Fan boys would rather see Hawaii, Fresno, LA Tech than anyone in the Belt play UNT. Its not even close with the casual fans. FIU, FAU, WK, MUTS, Troy, LAM, LALA, Arky St who gives a crap. I care because I want to win the belt, but most just laugh when I tell them we are playing one of these teams. So then I start pushing the great tailgating we have and how good an experience it is.

[UNTFan23]

Last WAC team we played was La Tech in 2006. Our attendance was 11,103. Tech as 3-6 overall and 1-3 in conference play at the time. Something noteworthy is that this was also the last year of the Dickey era. I can see us pulling in more fans as there were people boycotting DD but how many is the real question.

I don't see the glam of playing an "upper level" WAC team pulling in more fans unless we're winning more games.

[UNTLifer]

This thread, along with many others, does nothing but try to establish that only the opinions of the 'veterans' should be considered.

Sorry you feel this way, but that was not my intent.

[UNTLifer]

We all know where you stand and yes you are trying to stop people from expressing their views because every time they do you take jabs at them.

When was the last time you went on campus and actually spoke to the students? Why is it that you think the students don't go to the games?

Just had to respond.

Please tell me, with all the other threads on the possibility of moving to the WAC how I am trying to stop people from expressing their views. I was purely curious to see if the majority that oppossed the WAC were around during the Big West days. Nothing less, nothing more. And if expressing my opinion in those threads is "taking jabs at them" then this is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. Please give an example of the jabs I've taken.

My nephew is a current student and I talk to him weekly. The last time I was on campus was one of the games last year. I've never said the students didn't go to games. The student attendance now is so much better than any time I can remember. Again, please show me where I've stated that the students don't attend games.

[forevereagle]

Just out of curiosity, doesn't UT sell out games against Sun Belt opponents? Their fans don't seem to care who the opponent is as long as they get to see their team play and win. I am not saying that we are UT, but it seems to me that if we can build a fan base and win, it won't matter who we play.

Edited June 23, 2010 by forevereagle

[Travis]

When was the last time you went on campus and actually spoke to the students? Why is it that you think the students don't go to the games?

I agree there are downsides to the WAC but there is more potential in that conference than there will ever be in the Sun Belt.

Since I work with the current students and deal with them daily. I will be happy to tell you why they don't go to the games. It is because we aren't good and they don't care to watch a bad team. They don't care who our opponent is more than they want to see us destroy them. And we don't. So they don't come out. That is the one constant I hear from students.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Travis

[cdizzle86]

Just out of curiosity, doesn't UT sell out games against Sun Belt opponents? Their fans don't seem to care who the opponent is as long as they get to see their team play and win. I am not saying that we are UT, but it seems to me that if we can build a fan base and win, it won't matter who we play.

We should not try to replicate UT's model. What works for them, may not work for us. We have to find our own way that works.

[forevereagle]

We should not try to replicate UT's model. What works for them, may not work for us. We have to find our own way that works.

Ok, A&M, OU, Nebraska, LSU, Florida, Alabama all sell out games against SBC schools. Maybe one of their models will work better. Again, I am not saying that we are comparable to these schools, but they can anybody, including 1AA, and sell it out. We should be trying to put a winning product on the field and it will not matter who we play.

[KingDL1]

Just out of curiosity, doesn't UT sell out games against Sun Belt opponents? Their fans don't seem to care who the opponent is as long as they get to see their team play and win. I am not saying that we are UT, but it seems to me that if we can build a fan base and win, it won't matter who we play.

Clearly once we have broken the top 25 consistently and we are in an Auto Bid conference playing games against teams the likes of WK, FIU & FAU we will have sell outs as well.

[KRAM1]

Just out of curiosity, doesn't UT sell out games against Sun Belt opponents? Their fans don't seem to care who the opponent is as long as they get to see their team play and win. I am not saying that we are UT, but it seems to me that if we can build a fan base and win, it won't matter who we play.

That...and I'll give you a BIG +1 for it as well! In a nutshell, that about says it!