The Case For And Against The Wac

MeanGreen61 · June 21, 2010

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/archives/2010/06/the-case-for-and-against-the-w.html

GrandGreen · June 21, 2010

It is difficult for me to believe anyone in authority at NT would even consider a move to the WAC. However, I never thought that as many fans would be behind such a move. Vito for move rationale is very weak. The WAC may be still a slightly better overall conference than the Belt but assuming NMSU and La Tech are better rivals than what is in the Belt is highly suspect. La tech has never really been a rival of any kind to NT other than in recruiting. NMSU likewise was only a big football game when the conference title was in play. NMSU is a good BB program but has never really created a stir at the Pit. I assume that the WAC will have a better tv contract but it will be much diminished after the Boise exit.

The one plus point that Vito had is the perceived move up. This is much more smoke than substance, the WAC is not that much better; and if the Belt stays together it could quickly bypass the WAC in perception as well as substance. As far as the point, of the WAC being the more stable conference; are you kidding? I also take issue that the WAC would be a big step up in competition.

The WAC does still have some attractive teams but Fresno, Nevada and Hawaii are not teams that are going to help NT with attendance or fan interest. USU, NMSU and Idaho were not even big factors in the Belt. The WAC makes no sense for NT. NT is not an UT were travel costs and local rivalries are not important. As for the WAC establishing an Eastern presence, didn't they already try that with disastrous results. La Tech is in an awful position in the WAC. They will bleeding money if they stay and are definitely not wanted by the rest of the conference. Why should NT even entertain joining such a mess?

NT is doing exactly what they should be doing, building a solid athletic program. The only fly in the ointment now, is a poor football program. I think a lot of fans would be a lot less flusterated with the Belt, if NT was once again making frequent trips to New Orleans.

SUMG · June 21, 2010

In his case for/against the WAC....Brett failed to mention bowl sites and basketball tournament sites. Right now....that's a HUGE ADVANTAGE in the SBC's favor. HUGE.

UNTflyer · June 21, 2010

The Sun Belt will NEVER pass anyone in terms of perception. Ever.

"Build the Belt" is a dream that teams cling to while they wait by the phone. The Sun Belt will always be an entry-level position for teams moving up or moving down the FBS ladder.

If WAC travel is going to hit us hard... hey, looks like we need to have the BOR consider the first increase of the athletic fee!

UNTFan23 · June 21, 2010

The Sun Belt will NEVER pass anyone in terms of perception. Ever.

"Build the Belt" is a dream that teams cling to while they wait by the phone. The Sun Belt will always be an entry-level position for teams moving up or moving down the FBS ladder.

If WAC travel is going to hit us hard... hey, looks like we need to have the BOR consider the first increase of the athletic fee!

Some media types referring to the WAC as the "Sun Belt with snow" is not exactly a flattering comment to make about a conference some are aspiring to join.

Eagle1855 · June 21, 2010

UH, SMU, Rice and TCU all had stints in the WAC that led to better things, and it didn't bankrupt them.

I think what it comes down to is, is the WAC a move up, perception-wise? If so, it might be a worthwhile move, considering there will probably be further realignment years down the road.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 21, 2010

UH, SMU, Rice and TCU all had stints in the WAC that led to better things, and it didn't bankrupt them.

That was a much different WAC. If the WAC still had the teams now that it did then, it would be a no-brainer. The WAC is clearly on the decline.

I think what it comes down to is, is the WAC a move up, perception-wise? If so, it might be a worthwhile move, considering there will probably be further realignment years down the road.

I agree that the WAC is a move up perception-wise. But if our goal is C-USA (or for you Kool-Aid drinkers, the MWC or Big XII), then we need to consider their perception. Would they be more eager to offer us membership if they see that we are in the WAC? Would they like the idea that we have had stability in one conference for 10 or so years? I really don't know the answer, but maybe someone else has a good idea.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Mean Green 93-98

UNTflyer · June 21, 2010

Remember, this is also in a sense a game of chicken. If CUSA is seriously looking at us, and they think we are considering a WAC invite, they may step up their efforts to get us on board.

CUSA has very few options to expand in the southwest. I dismiss any and all talk about UTSA and Texas State as ridiculous. Dreams of grabbing a homeless Big 12 team are dead. There is the possibility their eastern division is about to get raided.

untcampbell · June 21, 2010

A$M played the game of chicken perfectly, to the tune of $20 mm/year.

The stakes aren't as high here, obviously, but Flyer is right on.

GMG

VideoEagle · June 21, 2010

A$M played the game of chicken perfectly, to the tune of $20 mm/year.
The stakes aren't as high here, obviously, but Flyer is right on.

GMG

Since CUSA is NOT going to be raided anytime soon, it is more like playing lemming than chicken. With chicken, you can win if they other guy flinches. With lemming, we just go wacy and jump off a cliff.

But maybe suicide is the "perception" some want to convey!

GrandGreen · June 21, 2010

UH, SMU, Rice and TCU all had stints in the WAC that led to better things, and it didn't bankrupt them.

I think what it comes down to is, is the WAC a move up, perception-wise? If so, it might be a worthwhile move, considering there will probably be further realignment years down the road.

Maybe being in a local division with close rivals had a little to do with that. It led to better things because the majority of the Eastern division split off into a different leauges to get out of the WAC leaving only La Tech behind.

VideoEagle · June 21, 2010

UH, SMU, Rice and TCU all had stints in the WAC that led to better things, and it didn't bankrupt them.
/quote]

To be accurate, U of H was never in the Wac. They turned it down right off the bat for CUSA. They are a founding member of CUSA, although they couldn't play the first year because they were committed to the last year of the SWC.

SMU, Rice, TCU, Tulsa and UTEP all got out of the Wac at the very first chance they had. The Honolulu paper says SMU, Rice, Tulsa, SDSU and UTEP were all asked if they wanted to come back to a Boise-less Wac and all refused.

KingDL1 · June 21, 2010

Maybe being in a local division with close rivals had a little to do with that. It led to better things because the majority of the Eastern division split off into a different leauges to get out of the WAC leaving only La Tech behind.

With FAU and FIU added I am not sure I really care anymore if we go to the WAC or not, but what I do like is UNT getting its name out there and being discussed to upgrade conferences. It pushes the information that we have done wonders in bringing our facilities to the leading edge. Plus I think it gives us the perception that we are getting serious about our athletic programs. In this area I like all the attention we can get.

Edited June 21, 2010 by KingDL1

gangrene · June 21, 2010

Remember, this is also in a sense a game of chicken. If CUSA is seriously looking at us, and they think we are considering a WAC invite, they may step up their efforts to get us on board.

I agree with this. It's nice to be wanted but unless the WAC can pull in more schools within our immediate vicinity, I don't think it's a great option for North Texas.

Harry · June 21, 2010

Flyer I tend to agree with you regarding UTSA and Texas State. I would really like having SA and San Marcos as destinations for our fans and I can see them brining decent crowds to our new stadium over time. Reality is both are still years away from being options.

Remember, this is also in a sense a game of chicken. If CUSA is seriously looking at us, and they think we are considering a WAC invite, they may step up their efforts to get us on board.

CUSA has very few options to expand in the southwest. I dismiss any and all talk about UTSA and Texas State as ridiculous. Dreams of grabbing a homeless Big 12 team are dead. There is the possibility their eastern division is about to get raided.

Eagle1855 · June 21, 2010

Again, why is C-USA some panacea for all that is great in college football for UNT? Why is that our ultimate goal? C-USA is probably the most unstable conference, moving forward, of any of them.

Cerebus · June 21, 2010

Heck, if SMU, Rice, UTEP and Tulsa were in the WAC it would be a great move for us.

IF.

Got5onIt · June 21, 2010

Some media types referring to the WAC as the "Sun Belt with snow" is not exactly a flattering comment to make about a conference some are aspiring to join.

That's a huge slap in the face to Fresno St. & Hawaii, IMO. What SunBelt school even comes close to being as good as these 2 schools the last decade?

I say NT should go to the WAC and push for a package deal with stAte. There would certainly be some regional friendly games with LaTech, NMSU, & stAte in the mix. I thought NMSU was our biggest rival before they left the SunBelch?????

Edited June 21, 2010 by Got5onIt

Cerebus · June 21, 2010

Again, why is C-USA some panacea for all that is great in college football for UNT? Why is that our ultimate goal? C-USA is probably the most unstable conference, moving forward, of any of them.

Could it possibly be the *4* teams in Texas?

If they get raided, they will get raided from the east, not the west.

Western division of CUSA should be NT's next step, unless the belt could somehow, someday, convince those Texas teams to join the SBC.

UNTFan23 · June 21, 2010

Again, why is C-USA some panacea for all that is great in college football for UNT? Why is that our ultimate goal? C-USA is probably the most unstable conference, moving forward, of any of them.

Houston, Rice, SMU, Tulsa ... all are within a relative short distance and have name recognition for much of the fan base. Many of our best attended games in Fouts have been with Texas based teams (Tulsa is another). Many of our fans want opponents in the conference that they can easily travel to, which is why some don't like the Sun Belt and especially the WAC.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 21, 2010

Again, why is C-USA some panacea for all that is great in college football for UNT? Why is that our ultimate goal? C-USA is probably the most unstable conference, moving forward, of any of them.

Ultimate goal would be a strong term, but it is a great goal for UNT right now.

It is undeniably a better conference than the WAC or the Belt.

It has great regional matchups for UNT--Houston, Rice, SMU, Tulsa, UTEP. Even the matchups that are less regional are games people could get excited about--Southern Miss, Central Florida, Memphis (assuming they stay), etc.

Realistically, we are not going to be in a better conference in the next 5 years. 10 years and beyond, who knows?

Panacea? No. Ultimate goal? No. But I can't think of a more ideal conference situation for UNT within reality right now.

Cerebus · June 21, 2010

That's a huge slap in the face to Fresno St. & Hawaii, IMO. What SunBelt school even comes close to being as good as these 2 schools the last decade?
I say NT should go to the WAC and push for a package deal with stAte.

Denton->Fresno 1,500+ miles.

Denton->Hawaii ~4,000 miles.

Now, FAU is a statistical out lier at 1,300 miles, but the next longest is MTSU @ ~700 miles, Jonesboro is 450, ULM ios 320, Lafayette is 430, etc.

The extra money in the wac won't cover those travel costs, much less make up for the fact 99% of our fans won't be able to travel.

VideoEagle · June 21, 2010

The Wac has a lot less to worry about now that the MWC has said it will not expand to make up for losing Utah. That takes the pressure off the Wac. It also looks like the Big East is not going to raid CUSA anytime soon either. The only likely conference movement will be if La Tech can convince CUSA to take them or La Tech is forced by the economics of the Wac back into the SBC. If La Tech leaves, the WAC has no reason to expand east and can afford to take a FCS team from the west and give them time to move up. You need 6 teams that have competed together for at least 5 years to have a Division 1 conference and even losing La Tech would not hurt the Wac that much. Then it becomes just 7 teams dividing up the revenue.

Cerebus · June 21, 2010

The Wac has a lot less to worry about now that the MWC has said it will not expand to make up for losing Utah. That takes the pressure off the Wac. It also looks like the Big East is not going to raid CUSA anytime soon either. The only likely conference movement will be if La Tech can convince CUSA to take them or La Tech is forced by the economics of the Wac back into the SBC. If La Tech leaves, the WAC has no reason to expand east and can afford to take a FCS team from the west and give them time to move up. You need 6 teams that have competed together for at least 5 years to have a Division 1 conference and even losing La Tech would not hurt the Wac that much. Then it becomes just 7 teams dividing up the revenue.

Yes, I have no reason to want to take LaTech's position as the red headed step child.

Everyone should also see we would be brought in primarily to prevent LaTech from leaving because of the killer travel costs, the WESTERN Athletic Conference has no real desire to expand in our footprint, we would always be in the middle of nowhere, very far away from our conference mates.

UNTFan23 · June 21, 2010

That's a huge slap in the face to Fresno St. & Hawaii, IMO. What SunBelt school even comes close to being as good as these 2 schools the last decade?
I say NT should go to the WAC and push for a package deal with stAte. There would certainly be some regional friendly games with LaTech, NMSU, & stAte in the mix. I thought NMSU was our biggest rival before they left the SunBelch?????

But this is the new perception of the WAC with Boise leaving. I don't think joining a conference that has lost its identity that has been recently based almost solely on one team is the way to go right now. I also wouldn't want to join the WAC until I know what the new TV contract looks like as it will most likely be less than the $4.5 million it is today.