Hind-Sight Being 20/20 ?

[El Paso Eagle]

Not that the answer to this is significant to our current situation, but If UNT had moved to the WAC when we had (or have been told we had) the chance would we be in a better position for conference realignment than we are right now? While we can debate back and forth which conference is best between the Sun Belt and the WAC, it’s hard, if your honest, to say that the WAC has not been perceived as a stronger conference. Reading in other areas there does not seem to be the stigma tied to having a “WAC” team join in to a conference as there is to that of a “Belt” team. This is a question that may not have a right or wrong answer, but if we had taken the “plunge” would we be more marketable at this time?

[VideoEagle]

Not that the answer to this is significant to our current situation, but If UNT had moved to the WAC when we had (or have been told we had) the chance would we be in a better position for conference realignment than we are right now? While we can debate back and forth which conference is best between the Sun Belt and the WAC, it’s hard, if your honest, to say that the WAC has not been perceived as a stronger conference. Reading in other areas there does not seem to be the stigma tied to having a “WAC” team join in to a conference as there is to that of a “Belt” team. This is a question that may not have a right or wrong answer, but if we had taken the “plunge” would we be more marketable at this time?

No, because we would not have been able to add the new facilities we could afford while in the SBC. Also we would be getting less publicity than now for our football games because of the proven problems with late west coast games.

I don't understand these "perception" delusions that keep being bandied about. "Perception" by whom? Not professional writers - they all seem to be writing there if very little if any difference between the WAC, Mac, SBC and CUSA. If anything, writers this week from the WAC area all seem to think the SBC a more stable conference that is unlikely to collapse, unlike the WAC where they are writing about the last school turning out the lights!

[HoustonEagle]

While I agree writers generally understand the difference between the mid major conferences. I do think that John Q Public thinks the Sunbelt is a 1-AA conference. (they also still think it is called 1-AA)

[El Paso Eagle]

If anything, writers this week from the WAC area all seem to think the SBC a more stable conference that is unlikely to collapse, unlike the WAC where they are writing about the last school turning out the lights!

Could it be because we are in a conference where no one seems to want to take a team from our ranks?

[VideoEagle]

I do think that John Q Public thinks the Sunbelt is a 1-AA conference. (they also still think it is called 1-AA)

So we need to do things that have been proven to harm our program to please people who are too stupid to know better think?

[GrandGreen]

Not that the answer to this is significant to our current situation, but If UNT had moved to the WAC when we had (or have been told we had) the chance would we be in a better position for conference realignment than we are right now? While we can debate back and forth which conference is best between the Sun Belt and the WAC, it's hard, if your honest, to say that the WAC has not been perceived as a stronger conference. Reading in other areas there does not seem to be the stigma tied to having a "WAC" team join in to a conference as there is to that of a "Belt" team. This is a question that may not have a right or wrong answer, but if we had taken the "plunge" would we be more marketable at this time?

Yes, losing in the WAC in football would be much more beneficial than losing in the Belt. Thus far, there has been one team make the leap from a non-automatic qualifier conference to an AQ conference, Utah. One other, Boise State made the leap from the WAC to the MWC. I am sure that Utah and Boise State's records over the last five years playing in BCS bowls and being rated in the top 10 had a lot more to do with their advance than what league they came from. Do you really think that fans on message boards make conference affiliation decisions? Their perceptions means next to nothing. There is very little different between CUSA, MAC, WAC and the Belt; if you want to view everything in generalities; the average college football fan thinks that all these conferences are second rate.

Joining the WAC earlier, would not have gotten NT anything but poorer. The coverage in this area would be even less, NT would still be stuck in a conference with no other Texas teams. Now, NT would be in true panic mode as La Tech should be as they realize that their revenues are going to shrink even more.

North Texas made the right decision then and should continue to work on the things that really matter in upgrading athletics; simultaneously building winning programs and support of those programs.

[HoustonEagle]

So we need to do things that have been proven to harm our program to please people who are too stupid to know better think?

It's not a comment on what we should or should not do. Just more to do with our current state of affairs.

[UNTflyer]

If anything, writers this week from the WAC area all seem to think the SBC a more stable conference that is unlikely to collapse, unlike the WAC where they are writing about the last school turning out the lights!

These writers also said the Big 12 was dead.

[GreenStreet]

Could it be because we are in a conference where no one seems to want to take a team from our ranks?

Its not that they dont want us, but more how can the other conf drop the trash they already have?

[TheTastyGreek]

Not that the answer to this is significant to our current situation, but If UNT had moved to the WAC when we had (or have been told we had) the chance would we be in a better position for conference realignment than we are right now? While we can debate back and forth which conference is best between the Sun Belt and the WAC, it’s hard, if your honest, to say that the WAC has not been perceived as a stronger conference. Reading in other areas there does not seem to be the stigma tied to having a “WAC” team join in to a conference as there is to that of a “Belt” team. This is a question that may not have a right or wrong answer, but if we had taken the “plunge” would we be more marketable at this time?

How much more marketable are Utah State and Idaho for making the move?

I don't recall them being mentioned much in the realignment shuffle. And for them, the WAC made geographic sense.

[GrayEagle]

How much more marketable are Utah State and Idaho for making the move?

I don't recall them being mentioned much in the realignment shuffle. And for them, the WAC made geographic sense.

It still does; they should be in the WAC as long as it exists. Provided, that is, that they can meet the attendance requirements. Idaho has very marginal attendance and probably should be in 1-AA. They have a campaign to enlarge the seating capacity of Kibbie to 20K and my big question is why? They can't fill their 16K capacity now. Logan is almost as remote. Neither have large enrollments or are in large population centers so their chance for improvement is almost nil. Both do have a long history of being in 1-A or equivalent so it would be a blow, especially for Utah State, to have to go to the FCS. Anyway, if either could match Boise State's winning acumen they'd still have a tough time making the MWC.

[Harry]

In many ways Idaho and. Boise were comparable to SMU and North Texas. Of course SMU had the more heralded sports history. I do recall Idaho sort of thumbing their nose at Boise for a time and calling them a junior college etc. Man how things have changed since then! Leadership, fan support and Attitude were the key.

[wardly]

i think we made the right decision at the time to stay in the belt. our athletic budget was a lot less than it is now, all away games require air transportation, and our small traveling fan base of would shrink. in addition, no way we win conference title and new orleans bowl 4 years straight. we can't then nor now compete against bosie, nevada, hawaii, fresno st., or la.tech. we would have been another san jose. having said that, i still think the time is ripe to create an eastern division of wac consisting of existing members n.mex.st, la.tech, adding n. texas, ark. st.,ull, and texas st. while we still might not travel well, those who do would have an opportunity to do so. also, i would rather see hawaii, fresno st.,and nevada than fla.international,fau, or la.monroe. finally, i just don,t see smu ever letting us into any conference of which they are a member. if houston moves to mt. west in a few years, utsa would stand a better chance of getting that slot without ever having fielded a team than us because of san antonio market. big 12 doesn't want to expand into their existing territory, and neither does cusa.smu feels they deliver dfw market, and don't need nor want us. just an opinion.hope i am proven wrong.

[GreenMachine]

i think we made the right decision at the time to stay in the belt. our athletic budget was a lot less than it is now, all away games require air transportation, and our small traveling fan base of would shrink. in addition, no way we win conference title and new orleans bowl 4 years straight. we can't then nor now compete against bosie, nevada, hawaii, fresno st., or la.tech. we would have been another san jose. having said that, i still think the time is ripe to create an eastern division of wac consisting of existing members n.mex.st, la.tech, adding n. texas, ark. st.,ull, and texas st. while we still might not travel well, those who do would have an opportunity to do so. also, i would rather see hawaii, fresno st.,and nevada than fla.international,fau, or la.monroe. finally, i just don,t see smu ever letting us into any conference of which they are a member. if houston moves to mt. west in a few years, utsa would stand a better chance of getting that slot without ever having fielded a team than us because of san antonio market. big 12 doesn't want to expand into their existing territory, and neither does cusa.smu feels they deliver dfw market, and don't need nor want us. just an opinion.hope i am proven wrong.

You know, you are right! NT and all it's alum are dumbass losers that will never compete against SMU, UTEP, or the mighty UTSA. I am so F'ing tired of this loser mentality, it's no damn wonder nobody respects us, we whine like a bunch of F'ing babies about every situation that faces us instead of taking on the challenge. I am a VP at my company and have a pony, aggie, lumberjack, and razorback report to me. Should I tuck my tail in between my legs and give up my position because clearly all my subordinates come from much better schools so they are probably more capable of running our dept? Man, when we look up to La tech and utep is a sad day for NT.

[wardly]

You know, you are right! NT and all it's alum are dumbass losers that will never compete against SMU, UTEP, or the mighty UTSA. I am so F'ing tired of this loser mentality, it's no damn wonder nobody respects us, we whine like a bunch of F'ing babies about every situation that faces us instead of taking on the challenge. I am a VP at my company and have a pony, aggie, lumberjack, and razorback report to me. Should I tuck my tail in between my legs and give up my position because clearly all my subordinates come from much better schools so they are probably more capable of running our dept? Man, when we look up to La tech and utep is a sad day for NT.

easy, big guy! 1st, utep averages about 7,000 more basketball fans per game than us, and about 12,000 more football fans, regardless of record. i would love to have support like them. 2nd, i didn't say we could not compete with the best of wac in future. i said we can' now. [10 wins in 5 years. thank GOD for western k.] 3rd, some conferences will look at utsa as a possible utep in terms of fan support.4th, when is last time we beat la. tech in anything? finally, what i suggested was establishing a regional division of wac that would still allow those few of us that travel to continue to do so. i doubt many n.tex. fans venture east of la.monroe. finally, why is my post a "looser mentality?" the question was," would we have been better off going to the wac instead of belt 10 years ago?" my answer is, which is only an opinion," not then, but under right conditions, maybe now".get a grip.

[GreenMachine]

easy, big guy! 1st, utep averages about 7,000 more basketball fans per game than us, and about 12,000 more football fans, regardless of record. i would love to have support like them. 2nd, i didn't say we could not compete with the best of wac in future. i said we can' now. [10 wins in 5 years. thank GOD for western k.] 3rd, some conferences will look at utsa as a possible utep in terms of fan support.4th, when is last time we beat la. tech in anything? finally, what i suggested was establishing a regional division of wac that would still allow those few of us that travel to continue to do so. i doubt many n.tex. fans venture east of la.monroe. finally, why is my post a "looser mentality?" the question was," would we have been better off going to the wac instead of belt 10 years ago?" my answer is, which is only an opinion," not then, but under right conditions, maybe now".get a grip.

I realize I responded to your post directly and I apologize. It wasn't meant to be directed at you but after reading countless, oh wow is me posts, I got up on the soapbox. We average so few fans because of our won-loss record, our oponents, and the miserable condition of Fouts. However, the main reason is because we do so little to market games to anyone outside the diehard fans. I know at least 10 people that have called the ticket office to inquire about season tickets and never got a return call. NT probably lost 10 customers for life because of something as simple as a return phone call. I know people who have wanted to go to a certain game but info wasn't posted, nothing in the DRC. I have walked around campus before a game a saw very little promotion of a game. Went to the last b-ball game at the pit this year and entrance and ticket line was still FUBAR. We gripe about not having big money alum but turn around and insist we are a liberal arts school and try and hide the business and engineering schools, the graduates that could be the big donors. We just keep shooting ourselves in the foot over, and over, and over and wonder why we keep having the same result. We aren't a second rate university, the alum need to quit acting second rate and university need to quit making 2nd rate decisions.

[wardly]

I realize I responded to your post directly and I apologize. It wasn't meant to be directed at you but after reading countless, oh wow is me posts, I got up on the soapbox. We average so few fans because of our won-loss record, our oponents, and the miserable condition of Fouts. However, the main reason is because we do so little to market games to anyone outside the diehard fans. I know at least 10 people that have called the ticket office to inquire about season tickets and never got a return call. NT probably lost 10 customers for life because of something as simple as a return phone call. I know people who have wanted to go to a certain game but info wasn't posted, nothing in the DRC. I have walked around campus before a game a saw very little promotion of a game. Went to the last b-ball game at the pit this year and entrance and ticket line was still FUBAR. We gripe about not having big money alum but turn around and insist we are a liberal arts school and try and hide the business and engineering schools, the graduates that could be the big donors. We just keep shooting ourselves in the foot over, and over, and over and wonder why we keep having the same result. We aren't a second rate university, the alum need to quit acting second rate and university need to quit making 2nd rate decisions.

we are in violent agreement!peace!

[GrayEagle]

Yes, we would've IF we had won three straight titles, which would've killed Boise's chances at the BCS bowls. Otherwise, nothing for runnerup; just ask Fresno or Hawaii.