Univ Of Houston Making Push To Big 12

[UNT90]

I honestly think that the train from Carrollton up to Denton will help with this so long as they work with the school to coordinate for basketball games. One of the main reasons there are so few people at basketball games currently is because it's just near impossible to get into Denton around 6:00 PM on a weekday. If people can just park and ride, and especially if that can be worked into the season ticket package, there'll be an improvement.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we're going to double our attendance, but I could easily see the average per game going up 500-1000.

Mass transit isn't the problem, mass appeal is.

Only the hard core among us (students and alum) want to go to the pit and watch UNT play ULM, ULL, Ark St., etc... Until we play, and beat, a major opponent (read: top 25 or a recent top 25) at home, don't bank on a huge attendance increase. Maybe LSU will have that possiblity in next year.

If people want to be somewhere, they figure out a way to get there. Schedule big, win big, and then you will see a large bounce in attendance.

[ColoradoEagle]

Not sure I agree. There is a very real segment of alums/fans out there that would come to games if it weren't such a trek. Coming up from 635 to be at a game that starts at 7:00 will take you about an hour of very frustrating driving.

The diehards will be there no matter what, but your casual alums/fans won't be there if they have to put up with crap like that.

[UNT90]

Not sure I agree. There is a very real segment of alums/fans out there that would come to games if it weren't such a trek. Coming up from 635 to be at a game that starts at 7:00 will take you about an hour of very frustrating driving.

The diehards will be there no matter what, but your casual alums/fans won't be there if they have to put up with crap like that.

So what has their excuse been for Saturday evening games?

[ColoradoEagle]

That goes back to a lot of arguing on this board five to six years ago.

[UNT90]

That goes back to a lot of arguing on this board five to six years ago.

I hate not knowing the old stuff. Or the new stuff, for that matter.

For the record, I agree that the AD should make it as easy as possible to attract people to the PIT. It's a crime that they aren't there already.

[CMJ]

The attendence was down last year by a few hundred. The previous 2 seasons we averaged over 3K a game - especially good for the '08-09 season considering we didn't play an OSU at home type of game.

That's the reason last year's dip was a bit disappointing to me. It seemed that we had started to turn the corner on fans coming to the game just because it was NT and not as dependent on who the opponent was.

To be fair, we had to deal with some bad obstacles this past season. Like having home games the same day as Cowboys playoff games, and a random Weekday matinee in December. So maybe we really weren't down much.

Edited June 17, 2010 by CMJ

[cwb]

Just because Dave Justice, moron that he is, writes an opinion column in the Houston Chronicle regarding what Cougar High should do doesn't mean Cougar High is doing it. Their stadium sucks, their basketball venue is a dump, etc... Facilities wise we are ahead of them, now all we need is for Randy Galloway to write an article touting his opinion about why we should be in the BigXII-II, and we'll jump ahead of Houston.

I love you Lifer (in a brotherly way) but have to disagree with you on some things. I do agree that Dave (Richard) Justice can be a D-bag.

But, have you toured UH's facilities since the BMC owner donated $20 million in the early 90's. They have an indoor facility for football and track, a nice baseball facility, and, while it is as old as Fouts, Robertson is a cozy place to watch a football game. And Hofheinz Pavillion is not that bad of a place to watch a game. Is it Big Twelve material now? Probably not. But there are a lot of programs we should be bashing that are not "Cougar High". They have plenty of ammo to shoot at us. I would prefer to align ourlelves with them as to bash them.

Now Loseranna Tech? Fire away because they suck. Including their once dominate WBball program which carried them for years.

Having said that, the Justice column was an opinion piece. Therefore, the title of this thread is misguided. Should say: "Chronicle D-bag thinks UH should join Big Whatever so he can cover a UT game (his alma mater) at his home every other year."

[NTEdgex2]

It would help attendance at the PIT if the games started at 7:30 pm instead of 7:00. We have season tickets and drive up from the mid-cities. Unless we're lucky or there's a double header, we usually miss the first ten minutes or so of the games.

GMG!

[NT80]

It would help attendance at the PIT if the games started at 7:30 pm instead of 7:00. We have season tickets and drive up from the mid-cities. Unless we're lucky or there's a double header, we usually miss the first ten minutes or so of the games.

GMG!

Agree 7:30 is better.

[CMJ]

And as I stated in another thread when that topic came up -- many of our games started nearer 7:30 anyways because they were double headers with the women, and the ladies games rarely finished early enough start the Men's games anywhere close to on time.

Edited June 17, 2010 by CMJ

[Green Mean]

I just don't see the Big 12 adding another team in Texas. They already have 4 and it wouldn't really benefit the conference. The best case scenario for TCU, Houston, UNT etc is getting attention from the other BCS conferences. It would still give outreach to the Texas market which every conference seem to want.

[Eagle1855]

Houston needs to worry about filling their stadium and their pie in the sky athletic complex first. UH adds less to a conference right now than we do. If they can turn their team into a perennial top 25 presence instead of just flirting with it, and if they can start filling their stadium and/or start construction on their new one, then things might be different.

Same goes for us. If we can become a perennial top 25 presence and fill the new stadium so regularly that we start talking about that expansion to 50,000, then we will be at the point where we can start talking Mountain West, or heaven forbid, an autoqualifier conference.

Right now this is just a bunch of hot air that makes Houston look desperate.

Have you ever been to a UH game? When Houston plays people, they sell the place out. Look no further than the Tech game last year. UH's chief issue with attendance is who they play. It's only slightly different than our problem. Where we play true nobodies week in and week out, UH plays teams we'd like to think are somebodies, while their alumni remember the days of the SWC when they played actual somebodies. Memphis is a slight step down from Texas A&M in the appealing matchup department (which exists because I just made it up).

The Big12 will NEVER add UH. For one, Deloss Dodds despises the U of Houston and refuses to ever play them in any sports, if they can help it. Secondly, A&M and the rest of the Big 12 don't want to lose the "we're a BCS conference" leg they've got up on "C-USA Houston"- especially with Kevin Sumlin there.

[MeanMag]

JJ has done great things for UNT basketball, just like Fry did for football...but they are only getting about 2700 per game...that is my point..what is the AD doing about the turnout?

Ask not, what your AD is doing about the turnout, ask what you are doing about the turnout.

[UNTLifer]

I love you Lifer (in a brotherly way) but have to disagree with you on some things. I do agree that Dave (Richard) Justice can be a D-bag.

But, have you toured UH's facilities since the BMC owner donated $20 million in the early 90's. They have an indoor facility for football and track, a nice baseball facility, and, while it is as old as Fouts, Robertson is a cozy place to watch a football game. And Hofheinz Pavillion is not that bad of a place to watch a game. Is it Big Twelve material now? Probably not. But there are a lot of programs we should be bashing that are not "Cougar High". They have plenty of ammo to shoot at us. I would prefer to align ourlelves with them as to bash them.

Now Loseranna Tech? Fire away because they suck. Including their once dominate WBball program which carried them for years.

Having said that, the Justice column was an opinion piece. Therefore, the title of this thread is misguided. Should say: "Chronicle D-bag thinks UH should join Big Whatever so he can cover a UT game (his alma mater) at his home every other year."

Here's my point regarding Houston's facilities, mainly the two from the major revenue producing sports, football and basketball.

Robertson is a cozy place to watch football, but it is a metal structure in a poor area of Houston. The new Fouts, or whatever it will be called, will be a much nicer facility with an Athletic Center that is along the same lines as that at UofH. True, we don't have an indoor facility, but with the new student fee I would expect one soon after the completion of the stadium.

Holfheinz is a dump. The showers don't work and the player facilities are sub par as noted in a story regarding Aubrey Coleman back when UofH made their run through the CUSA tournament. From a fan persepective it is not a bad facility and they have a successful history (Phi Slamma Jamma) on their side, but the Super Pit is a nicer facility with better player amenities, and once again the location of the Super Pit is far, far superior to that of UofH.

True they have baseball, but again, I expect that to be added at NT in the very near future.

I would love to align ourselves with Houston, but the point of my original post was that just because Justice, the UT lover that he his, wrote an opinion piece doesn't mean we aren't trying to move up too, and we have nicer facilities.

La. Tech can die on the vine. I wouldn't invite them to rejoin the Sun Belt after the years of bashing our conference. They made their bed and can sleep in it.

[gangrene]

I have already read that a lack of a conference championship in the Big 12-2 and the round robin play if kept will likely hurt rankings for the top team, especially in years where the rest of Big 12-2 appears weak. Just three OOC games was listed as not enough balance.

It is what I have read in a couple of articles, I can understand the idea but I don't know if it is true.

Personally, I agree with that philosophy and I think Texas and OU will regret the decision to stay in the Big 12 lite in the not too distant future. How many times have you heard the media criticize the Big 10 and Pac 10 for playing weaker schedules and NOT having a conference championship game? Now, both the Big 10 and Pac 10 have 12 teams and will likely have conference championship games, along with the SEC. Meanwhile, the Big 12(-2) is going in the opposite direction. Who's right and who's wrong?

[ColoradoEagle]

Have you ever been to a UH game? When Houston plays people, they sell the place out. Look no further than the Tech game last year. UH's chief issue with attendance is who they play. It's only slightly different than our problem. Where we play true nobodies week in and week out, UH plays teams we'd like to think are somebodies, while their alumni remember the days of the SWC when they played actual somebodies. Memphis is a slight step down from Texas A&M in the appealing matchup department (which exists because I just made it up).

We come pretty close when we play "somebody" anymore. Pretty much a sellout back in '03 for Baylor, and over 25,000 for SMU during the most recent game. This is at a horrible facility, where sitting in the endzone is almost like not being there. Given the past few years, if we were to play somebody, we would sell out immediately. Oklahoma State or Arkansas in town? Tickets would be gone within the first week if not the first day.

So yes, UH has the same issue as we do. Their alumni can remember the glory days all they want, but the reality is we had over 22,000 to watch a team whose prior season was 1-11 take on Middle Tennessee State, while they pull 20,000 for Southern Miss and 22,000 for Memphis coming off an 8-5 season that included a bowl win.

[Quoner]

Personally, I agree with that philosophy and I think Texas and OU will regret the decision to stay in the Big 12 lite in the not too distant future. How many times have you heard the media criticize the Big 10 and Pac 10 for playing weaker schedules and NOT having a conference championship game? Now, both the Big 10 and Pac 10 have 12 teams and will likely have conference championship games, along with the SEC. Meanwhile, the Big 12(-2) is going in the opposite direction. Who's right and who's wrong?

But, as you've pointed out many times, the Big 12 lite is built on sand and Deloss Dodd's belly button lint, so it's only going to hold for 3-5 years anyway. This is just the little Dutch boy putting his finger in the Indigo Girls for as long as he can.

[gangrene]

Not sure I agree. There is a very real segment of alums/fans out there that would come to games if it weren't such a trek. Coming up from 635 to be at a game that starts at 7:00 will take you about an hour of very frustrating driving.

The diehards will be there no matter what, but your casual alums/fans won't be there if they have to put up with crap like that.

I think you're giving the students a free pass (pun intended). It's downright embarrassing that a university of 36,000 students can't draw more than a 2,700 attendance average for a team that has won 20+ games in each of the last four seasons. We should expect no less than 1/6 or 6,000 of the students to attend every basketball game. What's their excuse? It doesn't cost them anything to enter and most of the games are on weeknights.

[gangrene]

But, as you've pointed out many times, the Big 12 lite is built on sand and Deloss Dodd's belly button lint, so it's only going to hold for 3-5 years anyway. This is just the little Dutch boy putting his finger in the Indigo Girls for as long as he can.

That is correct, sir. I give it a max of 5 years, and not having a conference championship is only going to accelerate the unhappiness within the conference. I don't know why, but I am really perplexed at how the rest of the conference has chosen to blindly follow Texas down the path of doom.

[houstonmeangreen]

We come pretty close when we play "somebody" anymore. Pretty much a sellout back in '03 for Baylor, and over 25,000 for SMU during the most recent game. This is at a horrible facility, where sitting in the endzone is almost like not being there. Given the past few years, if we were to play somebody, we would sell out immediately. Oklahoma State or Arkansas in town? Tickets would be gone within the first week if not the first day.

So yes, UH has the same issue as we do. Their alumni can remember the glory days all they want, but the reality is we had over 22,000 to watch a team whose prior season was 1-11 take on Middle Tennessee State, while they pull 20,000 for Southern Miss and 22,000 for Memphis coming off an 8-5 season that included a bowl win.quote]

New Stadium + New Stadium + "Given the past few years, if we were to play somebody, we would sell out immediately. Oklahoma State or Arkansas in town? Tickets would be gone within the first week if not the first day. Absolutely!!!

[yyz28]

Big XII lite is not going to add Houston or TCU. Why would they? They already own the Texas media markets.

I agree that the Texas + 9 Conference will either have to add two teams in the near future, or it will be a VERY short term conference. TCU doesn't help add a new market. Boise is too far off the beaten path. Those are really the only two non BCS teams worth pursuing for any of the larger conferences (with the exception of Utah, which is already headed to PAC10 land) Any other addition really weakens the conference, because it will have to come from a non BCS conference and won't do anything for the strength of schedule argument. I think they have sort of painted themselves into a corner with this move.

Like it or not, UNT is where we are. In this current conference shuffle, we can only do what is best for us as it comes available. We don't really have the power to be a player unless we are asked to be. I trust that the AD will do what he can to push our program forward in all of this back and forth, but for now we're going to have to take what comes our way, and continue to focus on what we CAN work on. Better faclities, better funding of athletics, and putting a better product out to watch. The rest will take care of itself over time. ...we just got an AWEFULY late start on the whole thing.

Edited June 17, 2010 by yyz28

[Eagle1855]

Hey, at least they've got people working on their behalf.

[cdizzle86]

Hey, at least they've got people working on their behalf.

I thought we were the 3rd largest university in Texas.

[3XNTGRAD]

I thought we were the 3rd largest university in Texas.

No - we are the 4th largest university in Texas, but we have the 3rd largest undergraduate enrollment.

[ColoradoEagle]

Ask Orrin Hatch how successful his efforts were with BYU and Utah, and that was with investigations into the BCS going on. In the end, Utah got into the Pac 10 simply to avoid scheduling conflicts more than anything else.